The Onion's Timeline of Thanksgiving

Gigimo said:

Nice plaque, but it conveniently leaves out that Native Americans were just as complicit at killing off other Native Americans.

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There's always someone to make that comment. Americans are also complicit at killing off other Americans - on a massive scale. Does that mean that Americans don't honor or grieve their dead? And this wasn't a tribal war amongst equals, this was a wholescale genocide of a people by those who were better equipped, stronger, etc. It's not the same thing at all.

Hetta said:

There's always someone to make that comment. Americans are also complicit at killing off other Americans - on a massive scale. Does that mean that Americans don't honor or grieve their dead? And this wasn't a tribal war amongst equals, this was a wholescale genocide of a people by those who were better equipped, stronger, etc. It's not the same thing at all.

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Yes, there is always someone and that's why I ignored it. I've heard it so many times over the last 27 years as a social justice and political activist that it's become an ad nauseam and foolish rebuttal.

Speaking of Americans killing other Americans, an estimated 620,000 died during the Civil War. And that's not to count all the other wars that America has fought in since its inception. In fact, the United States of America has been at war more than 90 percent of the time since its inception in 1776. This article here: America Has Been at War 93% of the Time – 222 out of 239 Years – Since 1776, is three years old, so we will need to add these three years to the total of years America has been at war.

So, if we were going to be honest here, absolutely no American has the moral right to criticize and condemn Native Americans or any other country for fighting or killing its own people in a war.

Hetta said:

There's always someone to make that comment. Americans are also complicit at killing off other Americans - on a massive scale. Does that mean that Americans don't honor or grieve their dead? And this wasn't a tribal war amongst equals, this was a wholescale genocide of a people by those who were better equipped, stronger, etc. It's not the same thing at all.

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You're buying into a myth....one perpetuated by western culture no less.

Were there times when settlers were unnecessarily cruel or violent towards natives? Sure. There were also plenty of times when cruelty and violence towards natives was punished and fought against.

Were there times when settlers and natives lived side by side peacefully? Yup. Were there times when natives attacked defenseless women and children and families that were no threat to them at all? You betcha.

The point is that both sides committed atrocities and violence that the other side didn't understand. Both sides broke treaties....both killed innocent people.

Genocide though? Nah. 80-90% of natives died of diseases...died without ever seeing a white person. The "noble savage" myth of natives that are a wise, peaceful, people who were unfairly targeted and abused by the white man is a narrative invented during the railroad expansion when sympathetic Americans realized that very few of them were left and they wanted them to be protected. Their answer was to paint them in a sympathetic light, and inflate the original number....and portray whites as heartless greedy monsters.

Reality is never that simple though.

Chesterton said:

I've heard of families having rifts before. I've never had one in mine. That's very sad. Still don't get why it's funny.

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There are many billions of people on the planet who are not us. This is why we have books and movies, so we can learn about OTHER PEOPLE. It is an entertaining thing to see how DIFFERENT PEOPLE (ie people who are NOT US) do things!

If you ever watch "movies" (they used to show them exclusively in big "theaters" now you can find them on the "TV") you will see many depictions of "family gatherings" here in the USA. There are a number of tired tropes that have been in existence for decades, one of which is awkward family interactions.

I know it sounds weird, but that's how it works. Or so I've been told.

Gigimo said:

Nice plaque, but it conveniently leaves out that Native Americans were just as complicit at killing off other Native Americans.

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And this is why we as Americans today should NOT complain about "invading caravans" from the south. We kill each other all the time which means that invading hordes from Central American are wholly in the right to come on in and take our lands from us.

Ana the Ist said:

You're buying into a myth....one perpetuated by western culture no less.

Were there times when settlers were unnecessarily cruel or violent towards natives? Sure. There were also plenty of times when cruelty and violence towards natives was punished and fought against.

Were there times when settlers and natives lived side by side peacefully? Yup. Were there times when natives attacked defenseless women and children and families that were no threat to them at all? You betcha.

The point is that both sides committed atrocities and violence that the other side didn't understand. Both sides broke treaties....both killed innocent people.

Genocide though? Nah. 80-90% of natives died of diseases...died without ever seeing a white person. The "noble savage" myth of natives that are a wise, peaceful, people who were unfairly targeted and abused by the white man is a narrative invented during the railroad expansion when sympathetic Americans realized that very few of them were left and they wanted them to be protected. Their answer was to paint them in a sympathetic light, and inflate the original number....and portray whites as heartless greedy monsters.

Reality is never that simple though.

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The white man brought diseases with him, infecting the natives with diseases they had never experienced before. I suppose the Trail of Tears is made up too, right.

But no, I'm not buying into a myth. I think that you might be though.

Yliginou1 said:

There are many billions of people on the planet who are not us. This is why we have books and movies, so we can learn about OTHER PEOPLE. It is an entertaining thing to see how DIFFERENT PEOPLE (ie people who are NOT US) do things!

If you ever watch "movies" (they used to show them exclusively in big "theaters" now you can find them on the "TV") you will see many depictions of "family gatherings" here in the USA. There are a number of tired tropes that have been in existence for decades, one of which is awkward family interactions.

I know it sounds weird, but that's how it works. Or so I've been told.

Click to expand...

Maybe the problem is that I try to consume good books and movies, not ones with tired, false tropes.