Should Christians Carry Guns?

Aldebaran · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
Also David was under the Old covenant of eye for an eye not the law of love.

He was also doing what God told him to do. He was told to kill people.
I didn't bring this up to say David wasn't "loving his enemies". I brought it up to show you that God wasn't contradicting his own command by saying, "Thou shalt not kill", and then telling David to slaughter his enemies.

dogs4thewin · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
God alone avenges us, he expects us to pray and to do only good to our enemies.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

God does NOT expect us to allow people to abuse us that means sometimes telling people no or using force.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Aldebaran said:
Much of what you quote here assumes that stopping a person from committing is evil. Also, the "smite on the cheek" part is a bit different from a body blow, a raping, killing, etc. Can you tell the difference?

All of what I quoted said one thing and that was that we are to do harm to no man and recompense no man evil for evil, to give place unto our wrath, bless those who harm us, and feed those who hate us and use us.

Can you provide three passages or even one from the new testament under grace that says specifically that we are to kill another man to protect our family?

dogs4thewin · Nov 12, 2018

Aldebaran said:
He was also doing what God told him to do. He was told to kill people.
I didn't bring this up to say David wasn't "loving his enemies". I brought it up to show you that God wasn't contradicting his own command by saying, "Thou shalt not kill", and then telling David to slaughter his enemies.

And if God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow then the old testament verse New Testament agreement is void.

Aldebaran · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
My wife may live or die but if she does she does so saved. In this knowledge I must then look after, not the already saved soul, but the damned one. We who are Christ's do not look to care for and preserve the flesh but the soul.

I'm sure you'll find many people in the churches that were attacked by mass murderers that will disagree with you. The survivors seemed pretty traumatized.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Aldebaran said:
He was also doing what God told him to do. He was told to kill people.
I didn't bring this up to say David wasn't "loving his enemies". I brought it up to show you that God wasn't contradicting his own command by saying, "Thou shalt not kill", and then telling David to slaughter his enemies.

Because the Old testament law was a tooth for a tooth and if the Lord said to rise and kill it was by his own law that they were able to do so.

Under New Testament law we are not called to an eye for an eye but to die as sheep to the slaughter all the while loving those who kill us.

dogs4thewin · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
All of what I quoted said one thing and that was that we are to do harm to no man and recompense no man evil for evil, to give place unto our wrath, bless those who harm us, and feed those who hate us and use us.

Can you provide three passages or even one from the new testament under grace that says specifically that we are to kill another man to protect our family?

God has ALWAYS been both just and loving. Jesus came to pay the price for our sins that is not the same as telling us to let people walk all over us and those we love.

Aldebaran · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
God alone avenges us, he expects us to pray and to do only good to our enemies.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

There you go again, presuming self defense and the defense of others to be evil and equal to getting revenge. As long as you think that way, you're not understanding what evil is.

dogs4thewin · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
Because the Old testament law was a tooth for a tooth and if the Lord said to rise and kill it was by his own law that they were able to do so.

Under New Testament law we are not called to an eye for an eye but to die as sheep to the slaughter all the while loving those who kill us.

but that does mean letting them kill us and certainly not letting them kill others.

Aldebaran · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
All of what I quoted said one thing and that was that we are to do harm to no man and recompense no man evil for evil, to give place unto our wrath, bless those who harm us, and feed those who hate us and use us.

Can you provide three passages or even one from the new testament under grace that says specifically that we are to kill another man to protect our family?

1 Timothy 5:8. I quoted it before.

dogs4thewin · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
God alone avenges us, he expects us to pray and to do only good to our enemies.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

so do you believe we should not have laws at all? If you are saying that we should let only God Averge us does that mean that we should not punish people for breaking our laws such as stealing, rape, murder mp prison no nothing. I do not think that is what God would want.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

dogs4thewin said:
And if God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow then the old testament verse New Testament agreement is void.

God is the same and when he said that he would make a new covenant and that the old would not stand, and that the whole law was to be completed he did not change but kept his word. If the Old law remains then Christ died in vain.

A New covenant will be made:Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 28:10,13-19, Ezekiel 36:23-27,29-31
The Old Covenant will not stand:Isaiah 28:13-19
The New law will be written in their Hearts:Jeremiah 31:33-34, Ezekiel 36:26; Ezekiel 11:19
On a Tried stone will this Covenant be Made:Isaiah 28:16
This New Covenant will give the People a New Spirit:Ezekiel 36:26-27; Ezekiel 11:19
The New Covenant will be of the Promise of Faith:Isaiah 28:16
The Whole Covenant that was the Book of the Covenant would be Fulfilled:Isaiah 28:15,17

Matt 5:18
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Law completed

Christ Fulfilled the Whole Law of the Covenant:Hebrews 7:18-19,22; Luke 24:25-27, 44-49; Hebrews 9:14-15; Hebrews 8:4-13; Acts 13:38-41; Romans 10:4; Matt 5:17-20; John 19:30; Hebrews 12:2; 2 Timothy 3:15
Handwriting of Ordinances- Colossians 2:14; ,Hebrews 9:1; Hebrews 9:10,11,13,23-28; Ephesians 2:15
Law of Moses- Luke 24:25-27, 44-48; Acts 13:39; Acts 15:5; Acts 28:23; Mark 12:26-27

The Righteousness of the Lord is manifested without the Law of Moses
In the sight of the Lord no flesh is justified by the deeds of the law of moses(Romans 3:19,20,27) being witnessed by the law and the prophets, the righteousness of the lord is manifested without the law of moses(Romans 3:21,22,24,25) within the law of faith that we have received through christ(Romans 3:21,22,24,25,26,27) for if they which are of the Law be Heirs, then faith is made void and the promise of faith along with it(Romans 4:14,15).
Whosoever followeth the law of moses is a debtor to the whole law(Galatians 5:3,4;Galatians 3:10,12) and christ shall profit them nothing for he will become of no effect unto them who keep
the law of the covenant(Galatians 5:2,4;Galatians 3:11;Romans 3:19,20,27) There is no flesh justified by the works of the law of Moses(Galatians 2:16) if we now build again that which is of the law and keep it, that is to say put ourselves back into bondage, we become transgressors(Galatians 2:4,18) for if righteousness came by the law then Christ died in vain(Galatians 2:21).

The Old law is done as the Lord has commanded. We are now under the New law as he has commanded.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Aldebaran said:
1 Timothy 5:8. I quoted it before.

I read it again but it doesn't say we have an occasion to kill. Could you show me where exactly in this verse it says it's okay it kill?

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

Aldebaran said:
I'm sure you'll find many people in the churches that were attacked by mass murderers that will disagree with you. The survivors seemed pretty traumatized.

I can't speak for them, I speak only of that which is written in the bible.

dogs4thewin · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
I read it again but it doesn't say we have an occasion to kill. Could you show me where exactly in this verse it says it's okay it kill?

Providth is more than just food. It is about protection as well. It is not OK to murder it is OK to protect those you love as well as those who cannot protect themselves.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

dogs4thewin said:
so we should have allowed World WarII to just happen?

As Christians yes we should have allowed it to happen and we did allow it to happen, we do not fight for nations and principalities of this world, wicked men will always want to kill for us and for themselves, that is not our concern. We are to concern ourselves with the word of God, our souls, and our neighbor's soul not simply the body of flesh.

Aldebaran · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
I read it again but it doesn't say we have an occasion to kill. Could you show me where exactly in this verse it says it's okay it kill?

It's called providing for your family by protecting your family. Doesn't it stand to reason that if you're to provide your family with food, shelter and clothing, you also would provide them with protection? Or do you want to bring up the verse where Jesus said that the lillies of the field neither toil nor spin, and that the birds of the air are all known to God and that none fall without his knowledge? Why not say that He meant that we're not to have a job then? Others have, and they're wrong. Serving mammon, and all that.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Nov 12, 2018

dogs4thewin said:
Providth is more than just food. It is about protection as well. It is not OK to murder it is OK to protect those you love as well as those who cannot protect themselves.

If you have food and ramnent there with be content. The lord is our protector and avenger.

dogs4thewin · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
As Christians yes we should have allowed it to happen and we did allow it to happen, we do not fight for nations and principalities of this world wicked men will always want to kill for us and for themselves, that is not our concern. We are to concern ourselves with the word of God, our souls, and our neighbor's soul not simply the body of flesh.

so let me understand this correctly you are suggesting that God would have been OK with His people being killed and have no one to stop them?

Aldebaran · Nov 12, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
I can't speak for them, I speak only of that which is written in the bible.

That's just a cop-out to avoid answering the question. You know full well why those people were traumatized. It certainly wasn't because they wanted to do "evil" by protecting themselves and couldn't. Could it because they just watched their friends and family members being murdered in front of them?

Should Christians Carry Guns?

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