Just what is not living in sin exactly?

Monk Brendan said:

I've noticed that most Protestants are weak in moral theology...

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I notice most catholics are weak in morals, period.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so Paul says in Romans 6:1 that we should not continue to sin while we are being saved. General Church teaching is that we should repent of our sins and no longer sin. But wait! Doesn't everyone still sin while we are in the flesh? And isn't biblical repentance a change of mind about Jesus? Or am I missing something here? Just what is not living in sin exactly? Since everyone sins before and after their rebirth.

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Romans 6

1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.

We receive Jesus and we are saved by faith and through His grace. Basically what Paul is conveying is in regard to (grace), being saved by the grace of God through Jesus doesn't give one a "license" to sin. We are to walk in newness of life (following Jesus) and to not think we can just keep on sinning and that doing so we might receive more grace.

God Bless.

Monk Brendan said:

I've noticed that most Protestants are weak in moral theology, beyond "smoke not, drink not, dance not" in some of them.

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What moral theology do these people lack? Please show me a list, thank you.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so Paul says in Romans 6:1 that we should not continue to sin while we are being saved. General Church teaching is that we should repent of our sins and no longer sin. But wait! Doesn't everyone still sin while we are in the flesh? And isn't biblical repentance a change of mind about Jesus? Or am I missing something here? Just what is not living in sin exactly? Since everyone sins before and after their rebirth.

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Some people confuse the majors and minors. There are degrees of sin, since Jesus said that the Jewish leaders had the "greater sin" than Pilate, and John wrote of sin leading to death vs sin not leading to death. Sin leading to death is called by Paul "deeds of the flesh," and include things like immorality, greed, hate, slander, and other things. Since we who are born of God have a spiritual nature, we want to please God in everything because we love peace with Him. Therefore, we stop doing those deeds that lead to death. And the way we stop is faith that Jesus is our deliverer from sin. The Holy Spirit gives us the power to overcome those addictions (it may also take help from the church and other Christians). This is how we become overcomers.

Yet, no one is perfect, therefore there is always room for improvement in the sins we commit that don't lead to death. Such as lack of consideration for others, lack of awareness of other peoples' needs, lack of awareness of God's presence, failure to act responsibly in some situations, and many other things. We are to shine with the light of Christ and love in all we do, and those born of God desire to do so. This is why John wrote that the difference between those born of God and those not is evident. I believe this is also Paul's meaning in Rom. 6:1.

So, it's about going the right direction, toward God.
TD

There are no minor/major sins, there is just sin. Just like lies, there are no small lies because satan is the author of lies and so no lie can be tolerated. Its the same with any sin. Truth and untruth cannot coexist. Light and darkness have no fellowship.

Matthew 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on [a]God’s interests, but man’s.”

FireDragon76 said:

We are justified by faith, and not works.

The promises of God are not trivialities. And the divine promises are exactly what separates a believer from a non-believer. The believer lives in patient expectation of the world to come, which leads to a realistic ethic vs. perfectionism, which leads to fanaticism.

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I can only assume you agree with the first part of my post owing to the fact you did not answer it.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so Paul says in Romans 6:1 that we should not continue to sin while we are being saved. General Church teaching is that we should repent of our sins and no longer sin. But wait! Doesn't everyone still sin while we are in the flesh? And isn't biblical repentance a change of mind about Jesus? Or am I missing something here? Just what is not living in sin exactly? Since everyone sins before and after their rebirth.

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You are correct in that everyone sins and no one (including believers) are without sin as 1 John 1 attests to. However it is crucial to distinguish between occasional sin and the practice of sin/habitual sin. Those believers who choose to walk in the light (1 John 1:7) still occasionally sin but they don't practice sin. According to this verse, upon repentance the blood of Jesus cleanses from sin. However, forgiveness is condition upon a lifestyle of "walking in the light" i.e. obedient lifestyle. Those believers who instead choose to walk in darkness/disobedience do not have assurance of Jesus' cleansing blood; they do not even have fellowship with God (1 Jn 1:6). Those that practice sin "are of the devil" (1 Jn 3:8). This makes sense as the practice of sin is the evidence that one has not truly repented but instead keeps on sinning.

But wait....you asked isn't repentance simply a change of mind? Yes and no. While the Greek word itself does mean change of mind, that is not all it entails. The Apostle Paul described the gospel message that he himself preached:
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. Acts 26:20
Genuine repentance is not solely changing one's mind but accompanied by works/behavior that demonstrate we have truly repented.

FireDragon76 said:

We are justified by faith, and not works.

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No. "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone." James 2:24

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so Paul says in Romans 6:1 that we should not continue to sin while we are being saved.

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Actually, he says a bit more than this. Have you ever wondered why Paul made the remarks he did in verse 1 of chapter 6?

Romans 6:1
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

It's very interesting to me that Paul doesn't say, "Shall we continue in sin, so that we lose our salvation?" Instead he says that grace, not condemnation and judgment, abounds when believers continue in sin. Verse 1 begins with a question: "What shall we say then?" The form of this question indicates a reference back to a prior statement. And what had Paul only just written?

Romans 5:20-21
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin has reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here Paul explained that where sin abounded, grace - not divine rejection and punishment - abounded much more. In light of this, it may have been that the Roman believers would have thought, "Well, if grace abounds when I sin, and grace is a good thing, then I ought to sin a lot!" Paul headed off this sort of thinking in verse 1 of chapter 6. As good as grace is and as abundantly as God provides it to us when we sin, we still ought not abuse His super-abundant grace.

Neostarwcc said:

General Church teaching is that we should repent of our sins and no longer sin. But wait! Doesn't everyone still sin while we are in the flesh?

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Sin is inevitable even for the believer. But this does not mean that sin cannot become the exception rather than the rule in a believer's life. While no Christian will ever be sinlessly perfect in their daily living this side of the grave, they can certainly become far more holy, far more righteous, than when they first came to faith in Christ.

Neostarwcc said:

And isn't biblical repentance a change of mind about Jesus? Or am I missing something here? Just what is not living in sin exactly? Since everyone sins before and after their rebirth.

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As I understand it, "living in sin" refers to a common and comfortable sinful character of living. One in whom the Holy Spirit dwells cannot live persistently and easily in sin. Anyone who claims to be a child of God and lives persistently and easily in sin is, I think, belying their claim.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so Paul says in Romans 6:1 that we should not continue to sin while we are being saved. General Church teaching is that we should repent of our sins and no longer sin. But wait! Doesn't everyone still sin while we are in the flesh? And isn't biblical repentance a change of mind about Jesus? Or am I missing something here? Just what is not living in sin exactly? Since everyone sins before and after their rebirth.

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Telling others not to sin when you are also a sinner is funny, as Jesus died for our sins.

W2L said:

There are no minor/major sins, there is just sin. Just like lies, there are no small lies because satan is the author of lies and so no lie can be tolerated. Its the same with any sin. Truth and untruth cannot coexist. Light and darkness have no fellowship.

Matthew 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on [a]God’s interests, but man’s.”

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There are no minor/major sins, there is just sin

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Is this your idea, or did someone else tell it to you?

If you lust for sex looking at inappropriate content, it's sin. But if you enroll someone else in your immorality, it is worse. Impatience is a symptom of lack of spiritual mindedness. But impatience taken to rage and murder is worse. Jesus said "they have the greater sin," therefore, there is greater and lesser sin. John said there is sin unto death and sin not unto death, therefore there is greater and lesser sin. Sneezing without covering your face is a sin against others, since it lacks consideration for their health, but it is a very different caliber than seducing someone. Whoever made up the idea that all sins were equal did not think it through.
TD

tdidymas said:

Is this your idea, or did someone else tell it to you?

If you lust for sex looking at inappropriate content, it's sin. But if you enroll someone else in your immorality, it is worse. Impatience is a symptom of lack of spiritual mindedness. But impatience taken to rage and murder is worse. Jesus said "they have the greater sin," therefore, there is greater and lesser sin. John said there is sin unto death and sin not unto death, therefore there is greater and lesser sin. Sneezing without covering your face is a sin against others, since it lacks consideration for their health, but it is a very different caliber than seducing someone. Whoever made up the idea that all sins were equal did not think it through.
TD

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Not really. If you bring someone else in you commit two sins. Its not a different degree of one sin its just two sins. This doesn't prove that one sin is greater than another. This sounds like "good satan vs bad satan". It just doesnt work. Any little lie is just as worse as a big lie, because it comes from the enemy, and that makes it bad no matter how much we try to lesson the degree of its wrong.

Monk Brendan said:

I suggest you read CALLED TO BE HOLY.

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The 1 by Oswalt, or Dolan?

Monk Brendan said:

I've noticed that most Protestants are weak in moral theology, beyond "smoke not, drink not, dance not" in some of them.

I suggest you read CALLED TO BE HOLY.

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Only a Religious Elitist Snob would make such a statement about other Brothers in Christ.

I suggest you read THE HOLY BIBLE.

Gotta dig..pray seek.. how I see it.. I live in the flesh. this flash as we ALL KNOW..LOVES TO SIN..and the word says.. if we say we have no sin.. we deceive our selfs and the truth is not in us.

Yet the word says .. that which is born of God DOES NOT SIN.. seems confusing to me.. yet WHAT part of YOU was BORN AGAIN? YES..that part can not SIN. Most of us only go by FEELINGS what we feel hear and see and thats not faith. You think your SPIRIT that was made new can sin? Most do not understand this... so.. DONT take my words.. you seek you pray you ask.. HIM that lives IN YOU.. HELLO? GOD IS IN YOU...so ask HIM.. HE WILL tell you show you where its written..so you KNOW its HIM talking

Blade said:

Gotta dig..pray seek.. how I see it.. I live in the flesh. this flash as we ALL KNOW..LOVES TO SIN..and the word says.. if we say we have no sin.. we deceive our selfs and the truth is not in us.

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Everyone, both Christians and Non-Christians alike live their entire lives in the Flesh, but it is only when one lives After the Flesh, that it brings forth Death.

It is this Living After the Flesh which a Christian has died to, and been Born Again unto Newness of life.

Rom. 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom. 8:4,5
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Rom.8:12,13
12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1Jn 3:8,9
8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

W2L said:

Not really. If you bring someone else in you commit two sins. Its not a different degree of one sin its just two sins. This doesn't prove that one sin is greater than another. This sounds like "good satan vs bad satan". It just doesnt work. Any little lie is just as worse as a big lie, because it comes from the enemy, and that makes it bad no matter how much we try to lesson the degree of its wrong.

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Your idea is oversimplification. I go with what Jesus and John said.
TD

tdidymas said:

I go with what Jesus and John said.
TD

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Me too.

Monk Brendan said:

I've noticed that most Protestants are weak in moral theology, beyond "smoke not, drink not, dance not" in some of them.

I suggest you read CALLED TO BE HOLY.

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Suggestion overruled as the scriptures state.....
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
You need nothing but scriptures for this endeavor as it is complete and sufficient for the task as it says.
Anything else are interpretations, tangents, and philosophy.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay so Paul says in Romans 6:1 that we should not continue to sin while we are being saved. General Church teaching is that we should repent of our sins and no longer sin. But wait! Doesn't everyone still sin while we are in the flesh? And isn't biblical repentance a change of mind about Jesus? Or am I missing something here? Just what is not living in sin exactly? Since everyone sins before and after their rebirth.

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It's more or less a matter of spiritual growth. Spiritual maturity if you will as we grow in grace. When we come to Christ initially, we are but babes, children, no matter our age.
1 Corinthians 3:1(BSB) Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ.
Philippians 1:6(KJV) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
As you continue, you will spiritually mature and grow in your relationship with God.
For even Paul acknowledges there are things he doesn't want to do, yet he still does and vice versa.
Romans 7:13-25 explores his struggle with sin quite well.
The spirit is always at war with the flesh.
Romans 7:24-25 though says it well to conclude...
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

A commentary I found that does a great job expanding on this premise...
Matthew Henry Commentary
7:18-22 The more pure and holy the heart is, it will have the more quick feeling as to the sin that remains in it. The believer sees more of the beauty of holiness and the excellence of the law. His earnest desires to obey, increase as he grows in grace. But the whole good on which his will is fully bent, he does not do; sin ever springing up in him, through remaining corruption, he often does evil, though against the fixed determination of his will. The motions of sin within grieved the apostle. If by the striving of the flesh against the Spirit, was meant that he could not do or perform as the Spirit suggested, so also, by the effectual opposition of the Spirit, he could not do what the flesh prompted him to do. How different this case from that of those who make themselves easy with regard to the inward motions of the flesh prompting them to evil; who, against the light and warning of conscience, go on, even in outward practice, to do evil, and thus, with forethought, go on in the road to perdition! For as the believer is under grace, and his will is for the way of holiness, he sincerely delights in the law of God, and in the holiness which it demands, according to his inward man; that new man in him, which after God is created in true holiness.

Keep fighting the good fight.