Is Hell Real?

Invalidusername said:

So Jesus casts people into a place that no longer exists?

.....

Click to expand...

Please explain what you're referring to.

Neogaia777 said:

They commit sins in innocence, but at some point that changes inevitably...

God Bless!

Click to expand...

So when they lie, you think they don't know that they're doing something wrong? You never seen a child look guilty while trying to look innocent?

LastSeven said:

Please explain what you're referring to.

Click to expand...

So when Jesus says the dead shall be cast into Gehenna, you think Jesus is talking about the actual place that no longer exists today or is he using Gehenna as a metaphor for a place that is much, much worse?

LastSeven said:

So when they lie, you think they don't know that they're doing something wrong? You never seen a child look guilty while trying to look innocent?

Click to expand...

The age or at what time one reaches level of consciousness that come with more accountability, is up to God and God alone, and it starts off much less when we are young or immature... And I just don't believe God sends children to hell... That's not my God, not the God I know...

God Bless!

Your Brother In Christ said:

I have heard that many Christians do not believe that hell is real. I found this to be absurd, but I am open to hearing both sides of the argument. So that is what has lead me to proposing this question, is Hell real?
If it is or is not please explain.

P.S. I for one do believe it exist. Sorry for the pun in the poll but is just too much for me to resist.

Click to expand...

It depends on the definition of hell. If you are talking a literal eternal fire where souls will be suffering in burning pain forever, or anything like in Dante's Inferno. My answer would be I don't know, but more leaning towards the "no" area.

I know, i'm very strange as a catholic since most of this is church law but I do sometimes theorize that hell is either the being ceases to exist, or the soul is just disconnected from God and will roam alone and filled with unbearable negative emotions due to the disconnection. I even heard some people say that they think God reincarnates you to be a roach or a form of vile creature in the earth that will die or fall victim to the food chain over and over or until the sins have all been paid for. I don't know where that thought comes from, but it does sound interesting compared to the traditional fire-like universe.

jesus316 said:

I wonder whether someone who doesn't believe hell is real is a Christian. How can you be saved from hell by Jesus if there is no hell?

Click to expand...

Years and years ago, this topic came up. I refuse to debate with certain denominations because of their "hard line" stance regarding certain "dogmas."

I will sat this, a certain member of the RCC group told me flat out, that no matter what, nothing, absolutely nothing is worse than being separated from God, including hell and the Lake of Fire. And after all, you cannot take the book of Revelation seriously. It's a book of "allegories", its 99% "symbolism".

So I guess it really boils down as to what your view of scriptures is.

Are we to take the scriptures above all else since they are literally "the words of God"?

Or, do we have to rely on the teachings of those men, godly as they may have been, as our authority?

That, is the $64,000 question.

God Bless

Till all are one.

LastSeven said:

Hell is not real.

Our modern Bibles use the word hell a lot, but they're simply bad translations. Take for example the KJV. It is completely inconsistent in it's translation of the following four words, which are sometimes translated as "hell", but only when it refers to the wicked dying.

Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Taratarus.

The words sheol and Hades both mean "underworld / abode of the dead", and this is a place where all people are said to go upon death, not only the wicked.

The KJV however conveniently translates sheol as "hell" when it refers to the wicked dying (Proverbs 9:18) but translates it as "the grave" when it refers to the righteous dying (Genesis 44:31). The bias should be obvious.

Click to expand...

Are you a KJVO person?

Are you aware that we have no "perfect" version of the Bible?

Are you aware that the Masoretic text, (that of the OT) came some 1000 years after the canon of the Old Testament closed?

It has been said:

"I am not so much interested in the etymology of the words as I am in how they are used in the Bible."

That is truly sad. Etymology is important. Today, napkin is something you use to wipe your mouth and hands with while eating. In first century Israel, a "napkin" was a type of burial cloth.

That is why I do not rely on any singular version. Another example: Up until the 13th century, the third person of the trinity was never referred to as "Holy Ghost". He was always referred to as the Holy Spirit. Somewhere during the 13th century, spiirt and ghost became synonymous. It's still true today.

Point of order, nowhere in the scriptures do we see the Greek phrase "agio phantasm".

In the Greek, "pneuma" is our word for "spirit".

In the Greek, "phantasma" is the word used for "ghost" and/or "spirit" in the negative sense.

The KJ Translators were never consistent in their translation work. You will however, see references throughout the New Testament to "pneuma agios".

It is important to look at etymology. There are three Greek words used in the NT for what we are discussing.

Its been stated previously that there is no "proper" Greek word for "sheol". Our nearest equivalent is "hades". (Our English word: hell)

Sheol is rendered as "pit", or "grave" in the OT. The KJV translators also rendered it as "hell".

So from a perspective, sheol/hades/hell, always refer to the same place. That temporary holding place for both the saints and the unsaved. The dead "saints" are in "Abrahams Bosom" while the unsaved reside in "hades"

Tartarus, is a totally different place where according to scripture, is the holding place for a certain group of angels. Now you can find different definitions of "in darkness in chains" depending on which "commentator" you look at.

And then there is "Gehenna". This is another OT word used in the NT and is synonymous with "the Lake of Fire". It draws on the old era where Israel sacrificed their children inside a hallow "god". Literally, they burned their children to the god Moloch. (god of the Amorites; cf. 1 Kgs. 11:7)

It also carries with it the view from the Valley of Hinnom. For lack of a better description, it was the place where trash, dead animals, and everything else that was "unclean", was taken and burned. There literally was a 24/7 fire burning there.

SO what we have from study is:

Sheol/hades/hell is the place for (strictly speaking) the unsaved to go, until the day of the Great White Throne judgment.

Tartarus, is the holding place for the fallen angels who are held there until the Great White Throne judgment.

Gehenna is the "final" place where everybody whose name is not found in the Lamb's Book of Life, is cast.

God Bless

Till all are one.

food4thought said:

I am not so much interested in the etymology of the words as I am in how they are used in the Bible

Click to expand...

This is how it is used in the Bible. I did not speak further on the Hebrew word "Sheol" because Israel understood it to be the place of the dead, but there is no "god" associated with it as in Greek and Teutonic mythology. Jesus was an Old Testament prophet speaking to an Old Testament audience in Hebrew and Aramaic. The Gospels are later writings in Greek for a wider audience. The understanding that sheol/hell was the place of the dead remained.

food4thought said:

which from what I understand is the current usage of the English word hell (at least that is how I have always understood the word

Click to expand...

Yes, I understand. It is through centuries of cultural misunderstanding that Hell has been confused with the Lake of Fire. As I said before, if you go to Hell you will be in the Lake of Fire later, so the two terms have become synonymous. But they are not.

food4thought said:

Call it hell, call it Gehenna, call it the Lake of fire, there is a reality awaiting those who reject Jesus Christ, and it is not pleasant

Click to expand...

This is correct. However, there is one important reason to not confuse the two terms: soul sleep. You think there is no one in Hell right now. You seem to imply (maybe you don't but from my reading of you) that you believe in soul sleep. There is no biblical soul sleep. Sleep in the Bible is a euphemism for dead.

Words do matter, including the etymology. Jesus said we will be judged by every idle word that comes out of our mouths. God cares about how we think and speak.

AlexDTX said:

This is correct. However, there is one important reason to not confuse the two terms: soul sleep. You think there is no one in Hell right now. You seem to imply (maybe you don't but from my reading of you) that you believe in soul sleep. There is no biblical soul sleep. Sleep in the Bible is a euphemism for dead.

Click to expand...

I definitely do not believe in soul sleep... to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Because of the misunderstanding of modern people, I think it is important to distinguish between the two, and I do by calling hades/sheol hades and calling Tophet/Gehenna/lake of fire hell. I could be wrong... still I think it is correct and we will just have to agree to disagree agreeably

Invalidusername said:

So what have we been arguing about then?

Click to expand...

I dont argue, I reason and plant seeds. In time, with a little water and light, a plant will grow and become a large tree, under which, many birds will flock to nest. Until then, we will live in fear of becoming buttered toast for the toaster oven.

RaymondG said:

I dont argue, I reason and plant seeds. In time, with a little water and light, a plant will grow and become a large tree, under which, many birds will flock to nest. Until then, we will live in fear of becoming buttered toast for the toaster oven.

Click to expand...

Read the bible.

Invalidusername said:

Read the bible.

Click to expand...

Ask God for wisdom, or continue to rely on your carnal mind for interpretations until you are ready for the truth...

RaymondG said:

Ask God for wisdom, or continue to rely on your carnal mind for interpretations until you are ready for the truth...

Click to expand...

Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Your Brother In Christ said:

I have come to a final realization after going through each of the replies here. Hell is a topic that is not commonly discussed in the Church anymore. Do to this fact, I see a massing amount of confusion and differing opinions. This is exactly where the enemy wants to be, if you can make us think that he does not exist or stronghold does not exist oh, he has an extreme tactical advantage.
I see that the fear of offending people, has kept us from discussing Hell in churches and that has been to our detriment. The we need to openly and unabashedly discuss the enemy and his strongholds.

Click to expand...

It's not that... people are just rejecting hell. They cannot reconcile God's wrathful attributes to Him and think "He's a God of love, my God would never do that!"

Invalidusername said:

Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Click to expand...

Now, after reading, did you ask God for wisdom? Or did you feel that you did not need God's help because you are wise enough to understand the meanings on your own.....with your carnal minds....which, by the way, cannot understand the things of the spirit.

Verses like these confuse the carnal mind.....making it see contradictions. Should this verse say Will destroy and not Can? And arent we supposed to be an indestructible shish kebob?....so why the mention of the soul being destroyed in hell? we are just thrown in there to live right?

Your Brother In Christ said:

I have come to a final realization after going through each of the replies here. Hell is a topic that is not commonly discussed in the Church anymore. Do to this fact, I see a massing amount of confusion and differing opinions. This is exactly where the enemy wants to be, if you can make us think that he does not exist or stronghold does not exist oh, he has an extreme tactical advantage.
I see that the fear of offending people, has kept us from discussing Hell in churches and that has been to our detriment. The we need to openly and unabashedly discuss the enemy and his strongholds.

Click to expand...

Yes, I think this affects attendance as well. Much easier to get people to fall in line and do exactly what is told, if the fear of hell is in the mix. Im not against scaring people straight......makes for a safer world.......yet does little for the redemption of the soul.

RaymondG said:

Now, after reading, did you ask God for wisdom? Or did you feel that you did not need God's help because you are wise enough to understand the meanings on your own.....with your carnal minds....which, by the way, cannot understand the things of the spirit.

Verses like these confuse the carnal mind.....making it see contradictions. Should this verse say Will destroy and not Can? And arent we supposed to be an indestructible shish kebob?....so why the mention of the soul being destroyed in hell? we are just thrown in there to live right?

Click to expand...

You'll deny it forever even if it was revealed to you by the Spirit. However from observing your comments, you do not have the Spirit.