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Is Hell A Real?


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RaymondG

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You'll deny it forever even if it was revealed to you by the Spirit. However from observing your comments, you do not have the Spirit.
Im not moved one way or another by your words. I find it agreeable, from your comments, that you would also wish to place those that do not support you, in the oven you have prepared for them. And I see nothing wrong with it.

I would just note, that if hell is different from the one you created, you could find yourself in it....as it would be hard to avoid the real, when our attention is fixed on the unreal....
 
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RaymondG

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Yes, you are right about people wanting to not face the truth about hell, it realy defeats and invalidates Jesus's sacrifice on the cross. But I think it is deeper than just people wanting to confront it. That desire not to confront has always been there, but the church was always there to set things right. That was at least up until recently, when things changed. I'm wondering more and more if it is a demonic attack of sorts, in order to ease us into a false sense of security.
When fire and brimstone Church model was abandoned it was not long after that we start seeing a massive decay in morality in the American people. These are things that I have to look deeper into, and it might be something worth investigating.
Tell, which wife would you feel is more likely to truly love you and the one you would desire the most: The one who married you because she would be burned alive if she didn't.....and without the threat of being burnt she would not marry you? Or the wife who marrys you because she just desires to love you and be married to you?
 
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Invalidusername

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Yes, you are right about people wanting to not face the truth about hell, it realy defeats and invalidates Jesus's sacrifice on the cross. But I think it is deeper than just people wanting to confront it. That desire not to confront has always been there, but the church was always there to set things right. That was at least up until recently, when things changed. I'm wondering more and more if it is a demonic attack of sorts, in order to ease us into a false sense of security.
When fire and brimstone Church model was abandoned it was not long after that we start seeing a massive decay in morality in the American people. These are things that I have to look deeper into, and it might be something worth investigating.

And a lot of them don't know that rejecting hell is rejecting God.

"My God doesn't do that."

Well then maybe He isn't your God then. You'd rather keep a fictional God.
 
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Your Brother In Christ

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Tell, which wife would you feel is more likely to truly love you and the one you would desire the most: The one who married you because she would be burned alive if she didn't.....and without the threat of being burnt she would not marry you? Or the wife who marrys you because she just desires to love you and be married to you?
Your hypothetical is irrelevant. The fact is Hell exist plain and simple there is no argument about it. I'm done with your world of hypotheticals, they will get nowhere. You can use a hypothetical to justify anything as long as you twist it in a way you want to.
 
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RaymondG

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Your hypothetical is irrelevant. The fact is Hell exist plain and simple there is no argument about it. I'm done with your world of hypotheticals, they will get nowhere. You can use a hypothetical to justify anything as long as you twist it in a way you want to.
My question was not concerning the reality of hell. It is concerning the notice that is present, which implies that a christian with no fear of the oven, actual loves God less than those who fear the oven and state that they would not need God if the oven did not exist....
 
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Your Brother In Christ

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And a lot of them don't know that rejecting hell is rejecting God.

"My God doesn't do that."

Well then maybe He isn't your God then. You'd rather keep a fictional God.

Isn't that the enemy desire. What would be more sweeter than turning one of God's servants against Him, and a servant doesn't even know he's doing it. What a sweet victory that would be for the enemy.
 
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RaymondG

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Isn't that the enemy desire. What would be more sweeter than turning one of God's servants against Him, and a servant doesn't even know he's doing it. What a sweet victory that would be for the enemy.
The enemy desire is to keep you in line with fear.

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."

Do you deny these verses?

"
 
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Your Brother In Christ

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The enemy desire is to keep you in line with fear.

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love."

Do you deny these verses?

"

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction. - Proverbs 1:7

Do you deny this verse?

To answer your question of course not, but I think you have a strong misunderstanding on what the word fear means in both these verses. At first glance it would seem that these verses are in contradiction with one another, but it is not so. The fear you are referring to in your versus is a terrified fear of paralysis, but the fear I'm referring to is a fear of respect.

I do fear the copsh, in the sense of, I have respect for the authority that they have, but this is not mean I climb under the table with fear they come to the door.

Knowing the fact that hell exists does not fill me with a fear of terror, but I do have an understanding and respectful fear of it.
 
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RaymondG

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The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction. - Proverbs 1:7

Do you deny this verse?

To answer your question of course not, but I think you have a strong misunderstanding on what the word fear means in both these verses. At first glance it would seem that these verses are in contradiction with one another, but it is not so. The fear you are referring to in your versus is a terrified fear of paralysis, but the fear I'm referring to is a fear of respect.

I do fear the copsh, in the sense of, I have respect for the authority that they have, but this is not mean I climb under the table with fear they come to the door.

Knowing the fact that hell exists does not fill me with a fear of terror, but I do have an understanding and respectful fear of it.
So the fear you have for the Lord, is the same fear you have for a Hell?
 
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Your Brother In Christ

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So the fear you have for the Lord, is the same fear you have for a Hell?

In the same way, I have a lot more respect for the Lord then I do for fire.

God is mercyful, kind, and gental, but He is just, can be angered, and can be harsh. He deserves by His very nature the upmost respect.
 
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LastSeven

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Are you a KJVO person?

Are you aware that we have no "perfect" version of the Bible?

Are you aware that the Masoretic text, (that of the OT) came some 1000 years after the canon of the Old Testament closed?

It has been said:

"I am not so much interested in the etymology of the words as I am in how they are used in the Bible."

That is truly sad. Etymology is important. Today, napkin is something you use to wipe your mouth and hands with while eating. In first century Israel, a "napkin" was a type of burial cloth.

That is why I do not rely on any singular version. Another example: Up until the 13th century, the third person of the trinity was never referred to as "Holy Ghost". He was always referred to as the Holy Spirit. Somewhere during the 13th century, spiirt and ghost became synonymous. It's still true today.

Point of order, nowhere in the scriptures do we see the Greek phrase "agio phantasm".

In the Greek, "pneuma" is our word for "spirit".

In the Greek, "phantasma" is the word used for "ghost" and/or "spirit" in the negative sense.

The KJ Translators were never consistent in their translation work. You will however, see references throughout the New Testament to "pneuma agios".

It is important to look at etymology. There are three Greek words used in the NT for what we are discussing.

Its been stated previously that there is no "proper" Greek word for "sheol". Our nearest equivalent is "hades". (Our English word: hell)

Sheol is rendered as "pit", or "grave" in the OT. The KJV translators also rendered it as "hell".

So from a perspective, sheol/hades/hell, always refer to the same place. That temporary holding place for both the saints and the unsaved. The dead "saints" are in "Abrahams Bosom" while the unsaved reside in "hades"

Tartarus, is a totally different place where according to scripture, is the holding place for a certain group of angels. Now you can find different definitions of "in darkness in chains" depending on which "commentator" you look at.

And then there is "Gehenna". This is another OT word used in the NT and is synonymous with "the Lake of Fire". It draws on the old era where Israel sacrificed their children inside a hallow "god". Literally, they burned their children to the god Moloch. (god of the Amorites; cf. 1 Kgs. 11:7)

It also carries with it the view from the Valley of Hinnom. For lack of a better description, it was the place where trash, dead animals, and everything else that was "unclean", was taken and burned. There literally was a 24/7 fire burning there.

SO what we have from study is:

Sheol/hades/hell is the place for (strictly speaking) the unsaved to go, until the day of the Great White Throne judgment.

Tartarus, is the holding place for the fallen angels who are held there until the Great White Throne judgment.

Gehenna is the "final" place where everybody whose name is not found in the Lamb's Book of Life, is cast.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I agree with almost everything you said and I appreciate that you've actually researched the original language which most readers do not. However, I don't understand where you get this from:

So from a perspective, sheol/hades/hell, always refer to the same place. That temporary holding place for both the saints and the unsaved. The dead "saints" are in "Abrahams Bosom" while the unsaved reside in "hades".

I've crossed out the parts I don't agree with. I've crossed out "hell" because you know as well as I do that the modern definition of hell is nowhere near the actual definition for either sheol or hades, so why you would lump it in with those two words makes no sense to me.

Also, in your second sentence you rightly say that both the righteous and the unrighteous go to the same place upon death (although I might take issue with your "temporary holding place" as that implies a place where dead people are conscious, but that's a different discussion) but then I crossed out your last sentence because here you split the righteous from the unrighteous claiming that they don't go to the same place, contradicting your previous sentence.

So which do you believe? Do we all go to the same place upon death, or don't we?
 
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Invalidusername

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In the same way, I have a lot more respect for the Lord then I do for fire.

God is mercyful, kind, and gental, but He is just, can be angered, and can be harsh. He deserves by His very nature the upmost respect.

Agreed. God can be very harsh.

Romans 11:22

"Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off."

A lot of people don't remember that Lucifer was at one time a pure, righteous being that was in God's love but he was still not beyond God's wrath. Now Lucifer has been given over to a completely reprobate mind and is storing up more and more wrath against himself.
 
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LastSeven

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I wonder whether someone who doesn't believe hell is real is a Christian. How can you be saved from hell by Jesus if there is no hell?
Jesus did not come to save us from hell. He came to save us from death.
 
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Your Brother In Christ

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Jesus did not come to save us from hell. He came to save us from death.

But we all still die. He came to save us from the second death, the separation from God. Where would we be if we die while we're separated from God, in hell.
 
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LastSeven

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The age or at what time one reaches level of consciousness that come with more accountability, is up to God and God alone, and it starts off much less when we are young or immature... And I just don't believe God sends children to hell... That's not my God, not the God I know...

God Bless!
Well, you're right that God does not send children to hell, because God loves the little children and he just wouldn't do that to them, but how then can you justify the notion that God cares nothing at all for the adult who sins, only to subject them to eternity of unbearable torture?
 
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LastSeven

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So when Jesus says the dead shall be cast into Gehenna, you think Jesus is talking about the actual place that no longer exists today or is he using Gehenna as a metaphor for a place that is much, much worse?
Please quote the scripture you're referring to so there's no confusion.
 
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LastSeven

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But we all still die. He came to save us from the second death, the separation from God. Where would we be if we die while we're separated from God, in hell.
Where would we be? In the grave (sheol) of course, just as the Bible teaches. For dust you are and to dust you shall return.
 
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Your Brother In Christ

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Agreed. God can be very harsh.

Romans 11:22

"Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off."

A lot of people don't remember that Lucifer was at one time a pure, righteous being that was in God's love but he was still not beyond God's wrath. Now Lucifer has been given over to a completely reprobate mind and is storing up more and more wrath against himself.

He is the same yesterday, today, and forever, God does not change. There is one God all the way through the Old and New Testament AND to this very day.
 
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RaymondG

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But we all still die. He came to save us from the second death, the separation from God. Where would we be if we die while we're separated from God, in hell.
All do not die:

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
 
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