Jeff Flake votes to advance nominee, but calls for FBI investigation

From the standpoint of the GOP, I think what they have done here is very smart politics. Dems get an FBI investigation, but that is not what they wanted. It is unlikely that the FBI is going to uncover any reliable evidence that this crime occurred.

What the Dems wanted was to continue to delay the vote indefinitely, allow more people to come out of nowhere with new smears, and to hold more and more hearings in order to grandstand. Asking for the FBI to conduct a new investigation was supposed to be the catalyst by which all of this occurred.

But they get none of that. The vote can go to the floor whenever the GOP wants, and the GOP can say "You asked for a week delay to have a FBI investigation. We gave you exactly what you asked for. If you are not satisfied with the FBI investigation, it proves that you were only interested in smearing and delaying the vote."

The only downside for the GOP is that it leaves additional time for people to come out of the woodwork with ridiculous accusations. I don't think they will be able to do much with that, because the GOP can say "the supplemental FBI investigation considered that."

Afra said:

The only downside for the GOP is that it leaves additional time for people to come out of the woodwork with ridiculous accusations. I don't think they will be able to do much with that, because the GOP can say "the supplemental FBI investigation considered that."

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Or it’s an opportunity to uncover more facts...for either side of the argument. And that can’t be a bad thing, can it...?

Allandavid said:

Or it’s an opportunity to uncover more facts...for either side of the argument. And that can’t be a bad thing, can it...?

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Give me a break. The people demanding an investigation are already a no. They will vote no regardless of what the outcome of the investigation is. They've already stated they're out to stop this nomination regardless of the cost...and even preparing to stop the next one, without even knowing who it is yet. This is political games and stalling, nothing more.

Saucy said:

Give me a break. The people demanding an investigation are already a no. They will vote no regardless of what the outcome of the investigation is. They've already stated they're out to stop this nomination regardless of the cost...and even preparing to stop the next one, without even knowing who it is yet. This is political games and stalling, nothing more.

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And if they vote ‘no’ in the face of evidence which exonerates Kavanaugh, then they pay a political penalty.

If Kavanaugh is as pure as he claims, then he can’t lose from an independent investigation...

Allandavid said:

Or it’s an opportunity to uncover more facts...for either side of the argument. And that can’t be a bad thing, can it...?

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Maybe, if you have an altruistic view of Washington, I suppose. I personally have very little faith in politicians myself, whether they be Republicans or Democrats. At least for me, I think it is a power game to all of them. Ford is being used by the Dems to consolidate their power. The GOP is attempting to get the vote to the floor ASAP for the same reason. Everything is simply a means to an end for them, in my opinion. I don't think that there any very many, if any, politicians in Washington who operate on principle or our of purely altruistic reasons. You see it every once in a while, but it seems to be a very rare occurrence, at least to me.

The primary concern of any politician is to get elected.

I'm going to leave this topic alone for a little while. Nothing is coming of this and we just keep debating in circles.

Afra said:

Maybe, if you have an altruistic view of Washington, I suppose. I personally have very little faith in politicians myself, whether they be Republicans or Democrats. At least for me, I think it is a power game to all of them. Ford is being used by the Dems to consolidate their power. The GOP is attempting to get the vote to the floor ASAP for the same reason. Everything is simply a means to an end for them, in my opinion. I don't think that there any very many, if any, politicians in Washington who operate on principle or our of purely altruistic reasons. You see it every once in a while, but it seems to be a very rare occurrence, at least to me.

The primary concern of any politician is to get elected.

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Hence the need for an independent investigation.

The only people who need fear one are those who are lying...on either side.

Allandavid said:

Hence the need for an independent investigation.

The only people who need fear one are those who are lying...on either side.

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It won't matter. What are you going to find? A 35 year old note that says "I raped a girl today?"

The votes are still going to be the same. The FBI will investigate. It will generate a report. The GOP will spin it one way. The Dems will spin it another way. They will get on the Senate floor and grandstand. Then he will be confirmed 51-49.

It's all politics.

Afra said:

From the standpoint of the GOP, I think what they have done here is very smart politics.

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What they did was a necessity -- Flake and Murkowski threatened to vote no without an investigation... and if that happened, Kavanaugh is sunk.

wing2000 said:

True. However, Senators on the floor can vote accordingly.

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True, and we would definitely learn about Sen Flake's integrity at that point.

durangodawood said:

I think he's holding his full senate vote contingent on an investigation taking place. Given senate math, that could force the R's to request an investigation.

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Indeed.

FenderTL5 said:

If McConnell has the votes, there will be no delay.
If he doesn't, he'll give arm twisting and promises a try, which can take some time.

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Then I hope he has the votes. But, whether he gets confirmed or not, I just want it over with.

I'm tired of the political games.

No Swansong said:

Unfortunately his "call for an investigation" does not insure that one will actually occur. The Senate is not obligated to provide an investigation simply because Sen. Flake says he wants one.

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From my understanding, he won't vote with the pack unless he gets what he's asking for, and that his tentative support for the vote (that actually counts) is contingent on them following through with his request...

Clearly Trump sees that his nominee isn't going to get pushed through unless Flake's request is met, thus the reason he did this:
Trump changes course by ordering FBI investigation into Kavanaugh - CNNPolitics

It'll be interesting to see if Trump's loyal fan base will chastise Trump for this, or if they'll do a 180 and now think an investigation is a good idea because their hero said so...

TLK Valentine said:

What they did was a necessity -- Flake and Murkowski threatened to vote no without an investigation... and if that happened, Kavanaugh is sunk.

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Yes, that is certainly a possibility. But it is unclear how they would have voted without the FBI investigation.

LivingWordUnity said:

...I'm tired of the political games.

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Sorry to hear that. But its you who will need to take a break. The games arent going away. Thats for sure.

Afra said:

It won't matter. What are you going to find? A 35 year old note that says "I raped a girl today?"

The votes are still going to be the same. The FBI will investigate. It will generate a report. The GOP will spin it one way. The Dems will spin it another way. They will get on the Senate floor and grandstand. Then he will be confirmed 51-49.

It's all politics.

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If what you say is true, then the ‘51’ have nothing to fear, right? In the end they still win?

So why are they the ones resisting an investigation?

Allandavid said:

If what you say is true, then the ‘51’ have nothing to fear, right? In the end they still win?

So why are they the ones resisting an investigation?

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Because it is always better to win now than to win later.

And of course, it gives Dems an additional week to drum up new charges of bad things that Kavanaugh has allegedly done. In a few days someone may come along and say "Kavanaugh tried to eat my child" and Booker will go on TV and say "This is a substantial allegation! We must hold a full Senate hearing to determine whether this is true." and so forth . . .

LivingWordUnity said:

I'm tired of the political games.

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I would agree with this sentiment...

However, it's fair to point out when these games started...had the democrats not felt like they had a seat stolen from them when the GOP was playing games and refused to go with Merrick Garland (who, for the record, had more federal judicial experience than any nominee in the history of our nation) and left an empty seat for over 250 days, and then played games again when they triggered the nuclear option to get Gorsuch in there, this likely wouldn't be an issue now.

I would agree that the games are making a mockery of our system...but the democrats probably are feeling like that's their option at this point since the GOP has made no bones about the fact that they're willing to do the same (and have twice) and that the current president has vocally supported the notion of rolling back certain rights using the Supreme Court as his blunt instrument to do so.

ThatRobGuy said:

From my understanding, he won't vote with the pack unless he gets what he's asking for, and that his tentative support for the vote (that actually counts) is contingent on them following through with his request...

Clearly Trump sees that his nominee isn't going to get pushed through unless Flake's request is met, thus the reason he did this:
Trump changes course by ordering FBI investigation into Kavanaugh - CNNPolitics

It'll be interesting to see if Trump's loyal fan base will chastise Trump for this, or if they'll do a 180 and now think an investigation is a good idea because their hero said so...

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Thank you for sharing.

Saucy said:

Give me a break. The people demanding an investigation are already a no. They will vote no regardless of what the outcome of the investigation is. They've already stated they're out to stop this nomination regardless of the cost...and even preparing to stop the next one, without even knowing who it is yet. This is political games and stalling, nothing more.

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So you think Republican Jeff Flake whose vote in committee could have prevented the nomination from going to the floor, is going to vote no regardless the outcome of an investigation?