How can I come back from being apostate? (Hebrews 6)

Curtis697 · Sep 26, 2018

ToBeLoved said:
Not all visions are from good spirits. God says to test the spirits and see if they are of God.

Many people attach visions or other things to the Holy Spirit that may not be.

1 John 4:1-2
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God

True, but what "many people" do does not define my experience, nor the vetting of it's legitimacy through prayer and the light of scritpure that I've put the experience through.

paul1149 · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
The problem is that in different translations, the present particicles are modified.. and i cannot come to the same conclusion with them being modified.

It's not a problem if you go to the Greek, upon which my post is based.

FutureAndAHope · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
No, I don't think so. Because and the end it says "because they are crucifying to themselves the son of God afresh..." in the present tense. With your interpretation, it would be past tense.

Just having a quick look at the Greek words. There are no words "because they are", it is just the word:

ἀνασταυρόω
anastauroō
an-as-tow-ro'-o
From G303 and G4717; to recrucify (figuratively): - crucify afresh.

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ; crucify a new they to themselves the Son of God

There is no "because they are (currently)" ... that is a translators injection.

ToBeLoved · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
True, but what "many people" do does not define my experience, nor the vetting of it's legitimacy through prayer and the light of scritpure that I've put the experience through.

It was in response to a dif poster

Curtis697 · Sep 26, 2018

FutureAndAHope said:
Just having a quick look at the Greek words. There are no words "because they are", it is just the word:

ἀνασταυρόω
anastauroō
an-as-tow-ro'-o
From G303 and G4717; to recrucify (figuratively): - crucify afresh.

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ; crucify a new they to themselves the Son of God

There is no "because they are (currently)" ... that is a translators injection.

It's still in the present tense.

NeedyFollower · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
I first want to start by requesting that you'll only answer if you have a solid foundation on bible doctrines. Saying to me, "well that doesn't apply to you because God is love He wouldn't send you to hell; or well you care so you're saved;" will not help at all, nor is biblically sound. I desperately need help, but I need the help to be correct..

I grew up in a Christian home. It was forced on me by my parents, so naturally I rebelled against it in my teenage years. I became an, "atheist." Well one day, when I just turned 18, my football coach offered salvation through Jesus Christ to me. I declined, but due to circumstances set up by God, accepted his offer a week later. I chose to believe in Jesus Christ as savior, but He was not yet Lord. But God did deliver me from the insurmountable situation. I have been told my whole life that I have a Call of God on my life.

God called me to bible college in 2013, and I obeyed Him and went. There, I was heavily trained in Bible Theology, as well as ministry. I received hands-on experience with how to be used by the Holy Ghost as a vessel. I preached to people, was persecuted, had demons manifest around me, laid hands on the sick and saw miraculous healings, ect. (even saw a broken bone snap back into play with a loud, "pop" sound.)
The problem was that It was never truly about the Lord to me. I wanted to marry a girl that went to the college with me. She was an idol to me, and I never truly put God before her. I would only serve God with her in mind as the end result. It was never about the Lord Jesus Christ.

By the end of my time in the bible college in 2015, she decided to be with someone else, whom she is to this day married to. I left the bible college as well as the call of God on my life. I said to God, something to the extent of, "Jesus, God, Holy Spirit, I'm done with you."
I then began sinning intentionally with the specific intent and purpose of silencing the voice of the Holy Ghost in my heart. Since then, I have slept with 30 women, and have fallen into a more sinful state than I ever was previously in. 7 times worse sounds about right.

Since then, I have found myself in a place of absolute despair. I have found no place in my heart for repentance of any sort. I feel no sorrow for my sins, cannot hear from God, continue living a wicked lifestyle.. ect. I'm telling you, I cannot seem to break through this problem. I cry out day and night, but my heart remains wicked. If i'm honest, I only care because I know hell is at stake.

I can almost believe with certainty that nobody currently alive has studied Hebrews 6 more than I have. I have read what seems to be every commentary, every translation, and every interpretation many times over. I probably have, without exaggeration, put 100 hours study into Hebrews 6:4-6. I know the Calvanist, Armenian, and pretty much every other interpretation, as well as the flaws behind them.
The only interpretation that is completely flawed throughout is the one that says, "the writer is describing that it is impossible to fall away and lose your salvation." - the bible does not speak in such complex verbiage. It is made to where the simple minded can understand. I'm no slouch when it comes to the English Language, but trying to read it in the way they describe is completely confusing and asinine.

That being said, I have decided, based on 100 hours of research that this verse means either one of two things.

1. If a person is indulged in the things of God to the extent that I was, and does not backslide, but rather consciously turns their back on the faith.. then it is impossible that they, under any circumstance, ever return to repentance. It's not that God wouldn't forgive them if they did, but rather that their hearts will never be able to be changed, due to their prior exposal to the things of God.

2. If a person falls away after being in the fulness of the things of God, then it is impossible for any man to lead them back to the way of righteousness. (There are numerous scriptures in the NT talking about leading people going astray, back to repentance.) This interpretation says that BECAUSE they are crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh, it is impossible. They cannot be reasoned with. But if they decide to, then they can come back.
I truly do not know which one of these is correct.

Does anybody have anything that I have missed? Does anybody have insight or a first hand experience related to this? All answered are greatly appreciated.

If you have read enough and just want answer the quick question, then stop here.. but i'm going to further expand on the backstory in this situation, to show you how crazy it really is if you keep reading.

6 months after leaving bible college, I got into a motorcycle accident that almost killed me. Before leaving the house that night, I felt something nudging at me as if insisting me to put on my motorcycle helmet, which i never would normally wear. My life was spared because of that.
In the hospital, I felt what I believed to be the presence of God, flooding the hospital room. It was to the point where even a single thought about God would make me begin weeping uncontrollably. I can't say that I've had such easy access to His presence in my lifetime.
However, in the hospital, I decided that when I recovered, I would go back into the world, once more. And so I did. This time, darker and deeper than before.

A year and a half goes by, and I meet a girl in Rhode Island. The way we met was as if supernatural coincidence set it up. (I'll spare the details but please take my word for it)… If anyone had met a person in this manner, and had the connection with the other person the way that we did, and they didn't know better.. they would think that God matched us up together. But I know what the voice of Jesus is like, and it was not Him orchestrating this meeting. I knew it was Satan.
Anyways, when I flew to see her a month later, we were staying together in a hotel for a week, doing nothing good.. when she went to take a shower. When I was sitting on the bed, I suddenly had a vision: I saw myself, with her. I saw in the vision, her distracting me... and hell was beneath us. I saw a large black arm rise out of hell, grab me, and pull me into hell. The vision was so profound and intense that it made my body physically jump, though I carried on in my life without paying any mind to it.
A year later, her and I broke up. I thought to myself, "well, at least the vision didn't come to pass." But, lo and behold; 6 month later, due to supernatural circumstance, we began speaking again, and ended up getting back together.
Well, my spirit man was constantly eating at me about this.. I could not shake the vision I had of me going to hell a year prior.
So I began to pray, more fervently than I have ever prayed before: With tears and screaming, I said "Jesus, if I'm going to end up fulfilling the vision by being with her, at least make it to where I know I'm on the way to hell without a shadow of a doubt!!"
The next morning I woke up to a text from my most radical Christian friend, who knows nothing about me. the text says the following message that I'm going to copy and paste:

"I felt God told me to anoint myself with oil and then to sit down and listen. I did so, and immediately I heard the word "friend". I continued to listen and set my heart upon Him, when I began to see a vision. It was you, walking behind a girl. I couldn't see her face at first, but only her back. She wore a long dress that followed behind her. She seemed to be young and beautiful. Delicacies like candy and color objects followed close to her.

I saw you and it seemed you were drawn to her, as if you wanted to be with her. You were attracted to her and had a desire to engage with her. You got close and even tried to touch her dress and even smell it; it seemed you would even taste it if you could.

The girl continued to walk with her back to me until I came closer to her front. I then saw her face and it looked like that of a living corpse, even a hideous insect. There was obvious evil and wickedness about her. She then turned to you and grabbed you and killed you in front of me. She left the scene and all I saw was your grave.

I was then taken to another vision in which I saw you with God. In this scene you had refused the woman and were drawn to the Lord. He showed you creation and brought you through mountains and valleys. You were both friends. He brought you before many people and you proclaimed the message of salvation to them. You were enraptured by Him and He with you.

In this scene I have just mentioned, you were consumed with love for God and it did not matter that you were single. Marriage was not even on your mind. You were fulfilled in your relationship with Jesus Christ. "

Terror struck my soul upon reading this text message. I contacted her and told her that we were over, and that I would never speak to her again. I also told her why. She was very understanding.. and it was deeply hurtful to both of us.
I, however, believe that I felt an absolute assurance from the Holy Ghost that I was a child of God at that point. I felt a peace beyond understanding, despite the immense pain, and breaking of my willpower this burdened me with.
The following 3 to 4 nights, I began pleading with God that He would allow me to be with her without it taking me to hell. I told God how much I loved her. I told God, "even if she isn't the best you have for me, I want to be with her. I love her." I talked to her about all of this and she ended up one night, saying a prayer to give her life to the Lord, and began taking it upon herself to read the word for hours on end, and pray. However, I was skeptical that it may have been a false conversion, just to get me back.

While I was seeking the answer.. I BELIEVE to have had the Lord say this to me... "I will allow you to marry her without it taking you to hell. However, if you do, you will never be able to fulfill the calling I have place upon your life."

I chose to marry her. It felt like I was doing the wrong thing, but I went through with it.
Now you're pretty much caught up to where I'm currently at.

What are your thoughts? Does Hebrews 6 describe the reason why I keep falling back into darkness, and just have not been able to truly repent?
Please, any advice is helpful. God bless.

Brother ..I was in a similar situation although I did not even have the fear that you did ..I was more lost than that after having followed the Lord and then fell away ..same as you ..women , the world , money , success ..got married ..children ..back in church but no love nor fear ..I remember flying back from an overseas vacation and thinking .." If this plane should go down , I'll repent . " Of course , that is not repentance ..that is just not wanting to go to hell . " Some time later I was praying so that I could love my wife more and the Lord Did speak ..and what He said may be true with you ..He said , " You do not love your wife . you love your self . " ...This was true but not what I was asking for but it WAS the problem ...but the thing that got me was ...Why would the Lord even speak to such a wicked man like me ...His goodness to me Did lead me to repentance ..God's goodness ..It did cost me my marriage ( I am single and celibate ..not able nor have any desire to remarry . ) And it cost me many things ..but God is good and he changes not ..He is faithful even when we are not ...I still seek Him though and I love Him ..Listen for His voice but I would get away from TV , movies , etc...seek Him ..despite your ministry and casting out demons , etc. ....I do not believe you experienced His longsuffering , not willing that any should perish. ...and forget ministry as any type of "career " ...just be nobody so that Jesus may be all ....Grace and Peace in the name of one who is not like man .Jesus our Lord .

DamianWarS · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
I first want to start by requesting that you'll only answer if you have a solid foundation on bible doctrines. Saying to me, "well that doesn't apply to you because God is love He wouldn't send you to hell; or well you care so you're saved;" will not help at all, nor is biblically sound. I desperately need help, but I need the help to be correct..

I grew up in a Christian home. It was forced on me by my parents, so naturally I rebelled against it in my teenage years. I became an, "atheist." Well one day, when I just turned 18, my football coach offered salvation through Jesus Christ to me. I declined, but due to circumstances set up by God, accepted his offer a week later. I chose to believe in Jesus Christ as savior, but He was not yet Lord. But God did deliver me from the insurmountable situation. I have been told my whole life that I have a Call of God on my life.

God called me to bible college in 2013, and I obeyed Him and went. There, I was heavily trained in Bible Theology, as well as ministry. I received hands-on experience with how to be used by the Holy Ghost as a vessel. I preached to people, was persecuted, had demons manifest around me, laid hands on the sick and saw miraculous healings, ect. (even saw a broken bone snap back into play with a loud, "pop" sound.)
The problem was that It was never truly about the Lord to me. I wanted to marry a girl that went to the college with me. She was an idol to me, and I never truly put God before her. I would only serve God with her in mind as the end result. It was never about the Lord Jesus Christ.

By the end of my time in the bible college in 2015, she decided to be with someone else, whom she is to this day married to. I left the bible college as well as the call of God on my life. I said to God, something to the extent of, "Jesus, God, Holy Spirit, I'm done with you."
I then began sinning intentionally with the specific intent and purpose of silencing the voice of the Holy Ghost in my heart. Since then, I have slept with 30 women, and have fallen into a more sinful state than I ever was previously in. 7 times worse sounds about right.

Since then, I have found myself in a place of absolute despair. I have found no place in my heart for repentance of any sort. I feel no sorrow for my sins, cannot hear from God, continue living a wicked lifestyle.. ect. I'm telling you, I cannot seem to break through this problem. I cry out day and night, but my heart remains wicked. If i'm honest, I only care because I know hell is at stake.

I can almost believe with certainty that nobody currently alive has studied Hebrews 6 more than I have. I have read what seems to be every commentary, every translation, and every interpretation many times over. I probably have, without exaggeration, put 100 hours study into Hebrews 6:4-6. I know the Calvanist, Armenian, and pretty much every other interpretation, as well as the flaws behind them.
The only interpretation that is completely flawed throughout is the one that says, "the writer is describing that it is impossible to fall away and lose your salvation." - the bible does not speak in such complex verbiage. It is made to where the simple minded can understand. I'm no slouch when it comes to the English Language, but trying to read it in the way they describe is completely confusing and asinine.

That being said, I have decided, based on 100 hours of research that this verse means either one of two things.

1. If a person is indulged in the things of God to the extent that I was, and does not backslide, but rather consciously turns their back on the faith.. then it is impossible that they, under any circumstance, ever return to repentance. It's not that God wouldn't forgive them if they did, but rather that their hearts will never be able to be changed, due to their prior exposal to the things of God.

2. If a person falls away after being in the fulness of the things of God, then it is impossible for any man to lead them back to the way of righteousness. (There are numerous scriptures in the NT talking about leading people going astray, back to repentance.) This interpretation says that BECAUSE they are crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh, it is impossible. They cannot be reasoned with. But if they decide to, then they can come back.
I truly do not know which one of these is correct.

Does anybody have anything that I have missed? Does anybody have insight or a first hand experience related to this? All answered are greatly appreciated.

If you have read enough and just want answer the quick question, then stop here.. but i'm going to further expand on the backstory in this situation, to show you how crazy it really is if you keep reading.

6 months after leaving bible college, I got into a motorcycle accident that almost killed me. Before leaving the house that night, I felt something nudging at me as if insisting me to put on my motorcycle helmet, which i never would normally wear. My life was spared because of that.
In the hospital, I felt what I believed to be the presence of God, flooding the hospital room. It was to the point where even a single thought about God would make me begin weeping uncontrollably. I can't say that I've had such easy access to His presence in my lifetime.
However, in the hospital, I decided that when I recovered, I would go back into the world, once more. And so I did. This time, darker and deeper than before.

A year and a half goes by, and I meet a girl in Rhode Island. The way we met was as if supernatural coincidence set it up. (I'll spare the details but please take my word for it)… If anyone had met a person in this manner, and had the connection with the other person the way that we did, and they didn't know better.. they would think that God matched us up together. But I know what the voice of Jesus is like, and it was not Him orchestrating this meeting. I knew it was Satan.
Anyways, when I flew to see her a month later, we were staying together in a hotel for a week, doing nothing good.. when she went to take a shower. When I was sitting on the bed, I suddenly had a vision: I saw myself, with her. I saw in the vision, her distracting me... and hell was beneath us. I saw a large black arm rise out of hell, grab me, and pull me into hell. The vision was so profound and intense that it made my body physically jump, though I carried on in my life without paying any mind to it.
A year later, her and I broke up. I thought to myself, "well, at least the vision didn't come to pass." But, lo and behold; 6 month later, due to supernatural circumstance, we began speaking again, and ended up getting back together.
Well, my spirit man was constantly eating at me about this.. I could not shake the vision I had of me going to hell a year prior.
So I began to pray, more fervently than I have ever prayed before: With tears and screaming, I said "Jesus, if I'm going to end up fulfilling the vision by being with her, at least make it to where I know I'm on the way to hell without a shadow of a doubt!!"
The next morning I woke up to a text from my most radical Christian friend, who knows nothing about me. the text says the following message that I'm going to copy and paste:

"I felt God told me to anoint myself with oil and then to sit down and listen. I did so, and immediately I heard the word "friend". I continued to listen and set my heart upon Him, when I began to see a vision. It was you, walking behind a girl. I couldn't see her face at first, but only her back. She wore a long dress that followed behind her. She seemed to be young and beautiful. Delicacies like candy and color objects followed close to her.

I saw you and it seemed you were drawn to her, as if you wanted to be with her. You were attracted to her and had a desire to engage with her. You got close and even tried to touch her dress and even smell it; it seemed you would even taste it if you could.

The girl continued to walk with her back to me until I came closer to her front. I then saw her face and it looked like that of a living corpse, even a hideous insect. There was obvious evil and wickedness about her. She then turned to you and grabbed you and killed you in front of me. She left the scene and all I saw was your grave.

I was then taken to another vision in which I saw you with God. In this scene you had refused the woman and were drawn to the Lord. He showed you creation and brought you through mountains and valleys. You were both friends. He brought you before many people and you proclaimed the message of salvation to them. You were enraptured by Him and He with you.

In this scene I have just mentioned, you were consumed with love for God and it did not matter that you were single. Marriage was not even on your mind. You were fulfilled in your relationship with Jesus Christ. "

Terror struck my soul upon reading this text message. I contacted her and told her that we were over, and that I would never speak to her again. I also told her why. She was very understanding.. and it was deeply hurtful to both of us.
I, however, believe that I felt an absolute assurance from the Holy Ghost that I was a child of God at that point. I felt a peace beyond understanding, despite the immense pain, and breaking of my willpower this burdened me with.
The following 3 to 4 nights, I began pleading with God that He would allow me to be with her without it taking me to hell. I told God how much I loved her. I told God, "even if she isn't the best you have for me, I want to be with her. I love her." I talked to her about all of this and she ended up one night, saying a prayer to give her life to the Lord, and began taking it upon herself to read the word for hours on end, and pray. However, I was skeptical that it may have been a false conversion, just to get me back.

While I was seeking the answer.. I BELIEVE to have had the Lord say this to me... "I will allow you to marry her without it taking you to hell. However, if you do, you will never be able to fulfill the calling I have place upon your life."

I chose to marry her. It felt like I was doing the wrong thing, but I went through with it.
Now you're pretty much caught up to where I'm currently at.

What are your thoughts? Does Hebrews 6 describe the reason why I keep falling back into darkness, and just have not been able to truly repent?
Please, any advice is helpful. God bless.

I'm sure the parable of the prodigal son may speak something to this.

FutureAndAHope · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
It's still in the present tense.

You have to ask yourself do you want salvation? Or do you just want to find every possible problem with returning. The bible is clear that ALL of a christians sins are covered by the blood as long as there is an acknowledgement that we have sinned, and a genuine desire for repentance.

Job tells it this way:

Job 36:10-11 He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity. If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.

Job 33:24-25 Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:

Job 33:27-30 He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light. Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes with man, To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.

FutureAndAHope · Sep 26, 2018

My testimony is similar to yours, I became a believer, had a relationship break down, blamed God, told Him I was done. Returned to my sin.

For years I thought I was destined for hell, fell into inappropriate content, and lived for computer games, could not work, could not do anything.

Then God rescued me. Since then I have seen miracles occur through my prayer, one lady with a bad back instantly healed, another man healed by my prayer, more recently a friends daughter was healed of Ulcerative Colitis, and generally incurable bowl disease, again by prayer. God continues to encourage me both prophetically through others, and through his kindness to me, in both signs and confirmations.

I trust him that I was once saved, drifted, but am saved now, and will be forever. You need to return so God can pour his mercy on you. Don't harden your heart against the hope offered to you.

FatalHeart · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
Ever since I was young, I would see spirits. They would appear to me in my room, torture me, torture my family, ect. There was a night we had to sleep in walmart because they physically manifeated in our home. My dad said they threw me across the room. I'll never forget that night as long as i live. Since i was young i would have dreams and vision showing me future events, that would happen with frightening accuracy.. i'm just receptive to that realm. I believe the vision about my wife was from the Holy Ghost. I've had similar visions from the Holu Ghost before and I have learned how to distinguish between a Rhema/Inward vision from the Holy Ghost, and demonic visions. The bible even says the Holy sprit will show you things to come.
I just don't know whats wrong with me. Why do i keep turning my back on God? One day, I will devote my soul completely to him. Then, I will go to sleep, and for the next 2 weeks, completely lose all care for God, and the things of Him.

Yeah, well, knowing the difference isn't the problem. It's reacting the right way. I'm sure everyone knows subtly when they are off, but in the moment and with the emotions it's hard to control yourself. I still wouldn't trust so many experiences. It's not usual for that level of spiritual experiences unless you're part of the occult. I'm not calling you a liar, but I am warning you that even the good things, if they are leading to more fear and chaos in your life, such as the distress you are talking about, then it's most likely not a God thing. I'll pray, we'll see. I'm not really getting any checks in my spirit that you are gone forever, so I do truly believe something is messing with your mind. As for your heart, it's just convenient to worry about it being permanent rather than taking steps to make it better. Feelings aren't how you serve God anyone. It's a discipline thing. There's been plenty of days I don't want to be alive or with God, but that doesn't stop me from obeying. I mean, you're married. So, you should have some idea of how to love someone when you're not feeling it. If not, I would suggest understanding that real love has alot more to do with what you do rather than how you feel about it.

Presbyterian Continuist · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
Why would you say that both of my positions are flawed, just to turn around and validate the first one I named? My position 1 is the "impossible to return, salvation only once" one.

I need to know if there's a way out.

All sin and iniquity shall be forgiven of men. When a person receives Christ as Saviour, he is made alive in his spirit. Whatever happens after that does not make him dead again. It is just that you have not been walking in the Spirit. That has upset your fellowship with God. The fact that you are concerned about your spiritual state indicates that your heart is not hardened against Christ, therefore the Hebrews Scripture does not apply to you. All you have to do is to apply 1 John 1:9 and you are totally and immediately restored to a full fellowship with God.

You need to be careful of a lying spirit that is misquoting Scripture to make you feel hopelessly condemned. That is not of the Holy Spirit. The conviction of the Holy Spirit is there to point you back to Christ that you may be totally forgiven, cleansed and restored.

That is why the parable of the prodigal son is in the gospels.

Bobber · Sep 26, 2018

Invalidusername said:
Also perhaps God handed you and me over to Satan for a while to teach us to not love the things of the world.

I don't know. There seems to be no place in my heart for true sorrow.

Well maybe the question for you is do you feel motivated right now to not live in sin? I mean do you want to live in sin or don't you? Or do you want to live in righteousness I'm referring to the righteousness of God through faith? What is it YOU WANT IN LIFE?

Invalidusername · Sep 26, 2018

Bobber said:
Well maybe the question for you is do you feel motivated right now to not live in sin? I mean do you want to live in sin or don't you? Or do you want to live in righteousness I'm referring to the righteousness of God through faith? What is it YOU WANT IN LIFE?

I want righteousness thru faith. However I can't seem to muster true repentance

lsume · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
I first want to start by requesting that you'll only answer if you have a solid foundation on bible doctrines. Saying to me, "well that doesn't apply to you because God is love He wouldn't send you to hell; or well you care so you're saved;" will not help at all, nor is biblically sound. I desperately need help, but I need the help to be correct..

I grew up in a Christian home. It was forced on me by my parents, so naturally I rebelled against it in my teenage years. I became an, "atheist." Well one day, when I just turned 18, my football coach offered salvation through Jesus Christ to me. I declined, but due to circumstances set up by God, accepted his offer a week later. I chose to believe in Jesus Christ as savior, but He was not yet Lord. But God did deliver me from the insurmountable situation. I have been told my whole life that I have a Call of God on my life.

God called me to bible college in 2013, and I obeyed Him and went. There, I was heavily trained in Bible Theology, as well as ministry. I received hands-on experience with how to be used by the Holy Ghost as a vessel. I preached to people, was persecuted, had demons manifest around me, laid hands on the sick and saw miraculous healings, ect. (even saw a broken bone snap back into play with a loud, "pop" sound.)
The problem was that It was never truly about the Lord to me. I wanted to marry a girl that went to the college with me. She was an idol to me, and I never truly put God before her. I would only serve God with her in mind as the end result. It was never about the Lord Jesus Christ.

By the end of my time in the bible college in 2015, she decided to be with someone else, whom she is to this day married to. I left the bible college as well as the call of God on my life. I said to God, something to the extent of, "Jesus, God, Holy Spirit, I'm done with you."
I then began sinning intentionally with the specific intent and purpose of silencing the voice of the Holy Ghost in my heart. Since then, I have slept with 30 women, and have fallen into a more sinful state than I ever was previously in. 7 times worse sounds about right.

Since then, I have found myself in a place of absolute despair. I have found no place in my heart for repentance of any sort. I feel no sorrow for my sins, cannot hear from God, continue living a wicked lifestyle.. ect. I'm telling you, I cannot seem to break through this problem. I cry out day and night, but my heart remains wicked. If i'm honest, I only care because I know hell is at stake.

I can almost believe with certainty that nobody currently alive has studied Hebrews 6 more than I have. I have read what seems to be every commentary, every translation, and every interpretation many times over. I probably have, without exaggeration, put 100 hours study into Hebrews 6:4-6. I know the Calvanist, Armenian, and pretty much every other interpretation, as well as the flaws behind them.
The only interpretation that is completely flawed throughout is the one that says, "the writer is describing that it is impossible to fall away and lose your salvation." - the bible does not speak in such complex verbiage. It is made to where the simple minded can understand. I'm no slouch when it comes to the English Language, but trying to read it in the way they describe is completely confusing and asinine.

That being said, I have decided, based on 100 hours of research that this verse means either one of two things.

1. If a person is indulged in the things of God to the extent that I was, and does not backslide, but rather consciously turns their back on the faith.. then it is impossible that they, under any circumstance, ever return to repentance. It's not that God wouldn't forgive them if they did, but rather that their hearts will never be able to be changed, due to their prior exposal to the things of God.

2. If a person falls away after being in the fulness of the things of God, then it is impossible for any man to lead them back to the way of righteousness. (There are numerous scriptures in the NT talking about leading people going astray, back to repentance.) This interpretation says that BECAUSE they are crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh, it is impossible. They cannot be reasoned with. But if they decide to, then they can come back.
I truly do not know which one of these is correct.

Does anybody have anything that I have missed? Does anybody have insight or a first hand experience related to this? All answered are greatly appreciated.

If you have read enough and just want answer the quick question, then stop here.. but i'm going to further expand on the backstory in this situation, to show you how crazy it really is if you keep reading.

6 months after leaving bible college, I got into a motorcycle accident that almost killed me. Before leaving the house that night, I felt something nudging at me as if insisting me to put on my motorcycle helmet, which i never would normally wear. My life was spared because of that.
In the hospital, I felt what I believed to be the presence of God, flooding the hospital room. It was to the point where even a single thought about God would make me begin weeping uncontrollably. I can't say that I've had such easy access to His presence in my lifetime.
However, in the hospital, I decided that when I recovered, I would go back into the world, once more. And so I did. This time, darker and deeper than before.

A year and a half goes by, and I meet a girl in Rhode Island. The way we met was as if supernatural coincidence set it up. (I'll spare the details but please take my word for it)… If anyone had met a person in this manner, and had the connection with the other person the way that we did, and they didn't know better.. they would think that God matched us up together. But I know what the voice of Jesus is like, and it was not Him orchestrating this meeting. I knew it was Satan.
Anyways, when I flew to see her a month later, we were staying together in a hotel for a week, doing nothing good.. when she went to take a shower. When I was sitting on the bed, I suddenly had a vision: I saw myself, with her. I saw in the vision, her distracting me... and hell was beneath us. I saw a large black arm rise out of hell, grab me, and pull me into hell. The vision was so profound and intense that it made my body physically jump, though I carried on in my life without paying any mind to it.
A year later, her and I broke up. I thought to myself, "well, at least the vision didn't come to pass." But, lo and behold; 6 month later, due to supernatural circumstance, we began speaking again, and ended up getting back together.
Well, my spirit man was constantly eating at me about this.. I could not shake the vision I had of me going to hell a year prior.
So I began to pray, more fervently than I have ever prayed before: With tears and screaming, I said "Jesus, if I'm going to end up fulfilling the vision by being with her, at least make it to where I know I'm on the way to hell without a shadow of a doubt!!"
The next morning I woke up to a text from my most radical Christian friend, who knows nothing about me. the text says the following message that I'm going to copy and paste:

"I felt God told me to anoint myself with oil and then to sit down and listen. I did so, and immediately I heard the word "friend". I continued to listen and set my heart upon Him, when I began to see a vision. It was you, walking behind a girl. I couldn't see her face at first, but only her back. She wore a long dress that followed behind her. She seemed to be young and beautiful. Delicacies like candy and color objects followed close to her.

I saw you and it seemed you were drawn to her, as if you wanted to be with her. You were attracted to her and had a desire to engage with her. You got close and even tried to touch her dress and even smell it; it seemed you would even taste it if you could.

The girl continued to walk with her back to me until I came closer to her front. I then saw her face and it looked like that of a living corpse, even a hideous insect. There was obvious evil and wickedness about her. She then turned to you and grabbed you and killed you in front of me. She left the scene and all I saw was your grave.

I was then taken to another vision in which I saw you with God. In this scene you had refused the woman and were drawn to the Lord. He showed you creation and brought you through mountains and valleys. You were both friends. He brought you before many people and you proclaimed the message of salvation to them. You were enraptured by Him and He with you.

In this scene I have just mentioned, you were consumed with love for God and it did not matter that you were single. Marriage was not even on your mind. You were fulfilled in your relationship with Jesus Christ. "

Terror struck my soul upon reading this text message. I contacted her and told her that we were over, and that I would never speak to her again. I also told her why. She was very understanding.. and it was deeply hurtful to both of us.
I, however, believe that I felt an absolute assurance from the Holy Ghost that I was a child of God at that point. I felt a peace beyond understanding, despite the immense pain, and breaking of my willpower this burdened me with.
The following 3 to 4 nights, I began pleading with God that He would allow me to be with her without it taking me to hell. I told God how much I loved her. I told God, "even if she isn't the best you have for me, I want to be with her. I love her." I talked to her about all of this and she ended up one night, saying a prayer to give her life to the Lord, and began taking it upon herself to read the word for hours on end, and pray. However, I was skeptical that it may have been a false conversion, just to get me back.

While I was seeking the answer.. I BELIEVE to have had the Lord say this to me... "I will allow you to marry her without it taking you to hell. However, if you do, you will never be able to fulfill the calling I have place upon your life."

I chose to marry her. It felt like I was doing the wrong thing, but I went through with it.
Now you're pretty much caught up to where I'm currently at.

What are your thoughts? Does Hebrews 6 describe the reason why I keep falling back into darkness, and just have not been able to truly repent?
Please, any advice is helpful. God bless.

There is no out from God’s Word in Hebrews 6 once you have been truly born again. Have you experienced a certain fearful looking for of fiery indignation reserved for the advisary? Consider King Saul and what he went through after being disobedient to God’s order. However, when he visited the witch of Endor, Samuel told him that he and as I recall his sons would die the next day but that King Saul would be wherever Samuel was. I honestly don’t think that based on my own born again story that you have gone through this yet. I read your entire story and you will suffer for what you have done in that you intended to commit willful sin. I doubt that anyone on earth can say that they have never sinned since being born again. I can also tell you that I was prepared by Christ to go through the born again experience and it’s not something that you will ever forget or doubt.

Heb.10 Verses 25 to 27

[25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

I know that I have been born again. However, I still ended up sinning but not in a continuous willful manner. However, I still have had to suffer that certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation. After experiencing this for some years, I have been scourged and chastised. When Christ truly sets you free, you will not suffer lust for women or money. Christ builds a hedge around you to protect you from yourself and the world. My advice is to continue in prayer and strive to be obedient to God’s Word. There is a great deal more that I could share with you on this topic but I feel that you are not yet ready. Do you still have to fight lust in your life? Have you ever been set totally free from lust? You can contact me privately via this site.

Bobber · Sep 26, 2018

Curtis697 said:
I feel your two responses are the best here and speak to me the most. Honestly, I don't think I wany God or the christian life. But i want to want to.. if that makes sense. I'm not sure how to change my heart. If even possible.

Sure that's a common thing. I've had Christians express to me they feel guilty for they feel they don't want to pray or they don't feel like feeding their spirits with the word of God daily. The devil says to a Christian, "If you really loved God you would joyfully and willingly do A, B and C!" No, no, no!

The Christian life isn't always peaches and cream...sometimes it's a discipline. Sometimes Jesus said obeying God is like plucking out your own eye or cutting off your hand! Matt 5:29

Sometimes Jesus makes things a Command Jn 13:34 having done so because at times let's say the walking in LOVE is the last thing you would "want" to do. It's not a matter of what we want to do...it's a matter of what's the right thing to do. Keep in mind though...a persons Discipleship and discipline towards God WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN . Rom 2:7 I can assure you there'll be a time where you'll say my obeying God was the wisest and smartest thing I ever did.

Such a reward and such a blessing to hear at the end of Life's journey, "Well done good and faithful servant!" Matt 25:21 Consider some spend way too much time thinking about the issue of "want to". Why should we even care about that? I like to try to think in military terms. You know there are some people who delight to be considered a part of an armies elite troops.

They are among soldiers especially trained for the most difficult missions, and some are risky and dangerous. Should we think they'd consider the intense training they'd go through was desirable to the flesh? I'd say not.

They do it for they choose to see a BIGGER PICTURE. WANT TO means nothing to them. They do what needs to be done in no uncertain terms! Want to is playing around with children's things! Being right with God is the MUST and not to be played around with. Let's not be ignorant to the fact and I'd suggest this to you that the greatest thing you WANT to do is to hear, like I've said, "Well done good and faithful servant!" Matt 25:21

lsume · Sep 26, 2018

I should have added one very important point. Only God The Father knows the future and those He shares it with.

Bobber · Sep 26, 2018

Invalidusername said:
I want righteousness thru faith. However I can't seem to muster true repentance

OK how much do you want it? Forgive me and bear with me but I'm trying to define what is the level of your determination. Do you want it in the same measure in which Jesus said, in Matt 13:45

The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and in his joy he went and sold all he had and bought that field. Again the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls. When he found one very precious pearl, he went away and sold all he had and bought it.… Matt 13:45

Or here's another one. Are you and I willing to do this? I'm saying right now I am. How about you?

Then Jesus said to all of them, “If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. Lk9:25

Keep in mind Jesus is watching how you reply not that you have to reply to this on a message board. You can let it be between you and God.

Curtis697 · Sep 26, 2018

Bobber said:
Well maybe the question for you is do you feel motivated right now to not live in sin? I mean do you want to live in sin or don't you? Or do you want to live in righteousness I'm referring to the righteousness of God through faith? What is it YOU WANT IN LIFE?

I want to live in sin. But i know the end result. I want to have the desire to live for Jesus.

HTacianas · Sep 27, 2018

Curtis697 said:
I don't recall them going much into it. Probably wasn't paying attention.
To your last question: i appreciate all of the responses to the people who actually mindfully read the entire post of mine, rather than jump to a conclusion after seeing a few, key trigger words, as a few people here did.

To your middle question:
I already knew that upon posting this, Jewish believers were returning from the faith to their old way of doing things. However, I do not accept that this scritpure only applies to them. That's like saying when Jesus said, "forgive 70 times 7 times," that he was only saying it to his disciples at the time of a Jewish dispensation, so it no longer applies to us today.
Again, I've spent 100 hours studying this scripture. I have thouroughly looked into what they're claiming it means, yet still find my two interpretations to be the most logical, and biblically sound, according to scripture.

You're correct in recognizing that Hebrews 6 is directed at early Jewish Christians who had gone back to Judaism rather than continuing with Christianity. I've heard some commentators state that since it was directed at Jews that it only applied to Jews. That doesn't make sense to me, as it is the same as saying that a gentile Mithraist who converted to Christianity then renounced Christ to return to Mithraism is somehow exempt from it. It applies to everyone equally.

Based on the answers you've gotten to your questions, there is seemingly an unanswered question, and that is "can a person apostacize from Christianity"? What becomes of a person who does? Can that person ever return? That seems to be a very big and important question. As you have rightly pointed out, Hebrews 6 states in no uncertain terms that a person can in fact apostacize, yet your bible college didn't seem to think enough of it to even mention it. I think that is a glaring omission.

Given the number of replies you've had from users in this forum who emphatically deny that it is possible to apostacize, regardless of what Hebrews 6 clearly states, we have to ask the question of who exactly is the apostate here. Is the apostate the one who reads the scripture for what it is and accepts it regardless of how much that truth may hurt, is it the person who reads the scripture and denies that it means what it says and that based on their own tradition it means something else, or is it the bible college that doesn't so much as mention something from the bible of such importance?

Now if all these people you are surrounded by are so wrong about something so basic, so simple, and so seriously grave, what else are they wrong about?

Trust me, this is leading to the answer to your question.

Invalidusername · Sep 27, 2018

Bobber said:
OK how much do you want it? Forgive me and bear with me but I'm trying to define what is the level of your determination. Do you want it in the same measure in which Jesus said, in Matt 13:45

The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and in his joy he went and sold all he had and bought that field. Again the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls. When he found one very precious pearl, he went away and sold all he had and bought it.… Matt 13:45

Or here's another one. Are you and I willing to do this? I'm saying right now I am. How about you?

Then Jesus said to all of them, “If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. Lk9:25

Keep in mind Jesus is watching how you reply not that you have to reply to this on a message board. You can let it be between you and God.

I'd do anything to come back.

How can I come back from being apostate? (Hebrews 6)

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