Do you want a re-phrasing of the dilemma and the theodicy problem?
- Preventable evil exists.
- Therefore, any deity that exists is either a) not all-powerful and all-knowing, or b) not all-good.
Hey hey the bane.
Im all good, i wanted to see exactly what you meant.
Essentially why does God allow suffering and even more so, a good God would not allow evil to exist.
Now, this is quite a huge subject in itself and you will need to know some basic Christian info. We are discussing the Christian God in relation to Christianity.
Are you familiar with the parable of the harvest mat 13:24-30
"Another parable he put before them, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. And the servants of the householder came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then has it weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him,’Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ But he said, ‘No; lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’" Matthew 13:24-30
Here is the explanation of that parable.
And his disciples came to him, saying, ‘Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.’ He answered, ‘He who sows the good seed is the Son of man; the field is the world, and the good seed means the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age. The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has an ear let him hear." Matthew 13:36-43
This life on Earth is a test. Earth is s testing ground.
Peter 1:7
Pure gold put in the fire comes out of it proved pure; genuine faith put through this suffering comes out proved genuine. When Jesus wraps this all up, it's your faith, not your gold, that God will have on display as evidence of his victory.
Jeremiah 9:7
Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts, "Behold, I will refine them and assay them"
Isaiah 48:10
"Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.
God has planted a harvest. He wants a yield and He knows the more seeds He plants the bigger the harvest. He knows the result of the harvest - ie good fruit - is worth the chance of bad fruit or weeds.
It is worthwhile to God as he has plans ie the new Jerusalem. You are offered a chance, you could be apart of something bigger than you, we, the world or the universe.
Ask me more - in relation to this subject - as i feel like we need a bit of back and forth.
Well, it goes further than that, by asking: "Does God do good because it's just, or is it good because God does it?"
1 John 1:5
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 4:8
8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
This what we know of God. God is love and light. God would do good because He has all the data and can judge accordingly. God does what He wants to do based on His mortality and princples. He is the absolute authority!
The problem of evil is not the only thing that makes literal, personal deities an astronomically unlikely possibility in my book,
A pose a question to you. How do you know what qualifies as beautiful if you had no comparison to ugliness?
but it certainly does not help that any attempt at reconciling the world as-is with the image of an all-powerful, benign deity takes more special pleading and exceptional rationalisations
What special pleading do you speak of? What is an example of an exceptional rationale that you would have to believe in the Christian God?
than mapping the planetary orbits under the assumption that the Earth is at the centre of everything.
How do you know that Earth is not the centre of everything - In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth. What is at the centre of everything?
An expanding singularity kick-started the space-time-continuum as we know it. Since space and time are inextricably linked, there was neither a "before" nor an "elsewhere".
The bane - "and I would say concluding that things are NOT run by an invisible superbeing just makes vastly more sense and requires less mental gymnastics."
Well we have a great start. Lets kick it up a notch.
Is there something at the back of this singularity or is this a random and meaningless event?
What do you mean by a 'no before or elsewhere?
What is this singularity and how does it expand?
Of course not. That is why we've got the scientific method, because we KNOW people will mess up.
Ahhhhh.... the method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
Who reaches the conclusion of an observation, a measurement or an experiment?
Who modifies a hypotheses?
Do you have complete trust in the thoughts and reasoning of ancient civilizations who attributed their cultural peculiarities to a deity?
It would depend. Which ancient civilization do you speak of and what example of thoughts or reasoning would you like me to have complete trust in?
Ultimately, yes, though certainly not immediately and all at once.
So in the near distant future. You have an expectation based on assumption.
How certain are you?
Evolutionary biology enables us to figure out how species evolve. Its purpose is not to assign meaning to consciousness. There's such a thing as evolutionary psychology, explaining how empathy and reciprocity are vital, favourable traits in a social species like our own, and also explaining how anti-social behaviour is requited with negative feelings, but that's a different topic.
Sounds like science and scientists are your authority? Do you have complete trust in them?
Of course not. It is a ridiculous attempt to put words into my mouth, and everybody reading this will see right through it.
Please so not be rash my friend.
At this point, I don't even give you the benefit of the doubt that you just misunderstood, because you could easily see what question of yours I answered here.
Please excuse me that was not my intention.
At the same time it is best not to assume where im going with anything. Just speak truthfully and honestly.
Truth will prevail.
But for the sake of others, let's explain it once more.
Thank you
"Why do you consider (some depictions of) god evil if you do believe said god exists?"
"Because characters do not have to be real in order to qualify as evil. Darth Vader is not real, yet it's easy to see that he's a villain. In the same manner, gods as literary characters can qualify as good or evil even if they never existed."
Why does God qualify as evil?
With such quote mining, even Stalin would look like a saint - especially if you used propaganda written by his followers to establish this.
Quote mining (also contextomy) is the fallacious tactic of taking quotes out of context in order to make them seemingly agree with the quote miner's viewpoint or to make the comments of an opponent seem more extreme or hold positions they don't in order to make their positions easier to refute or demonize.[2] It's a way of lying.
How did i quote out of context? Do you think its fair to compare God to Stalin? R u suggesting those scriptures are lies? Would you call what you are doing an appeal to the extreme or misrepresentation? What scripture would you use to prove that position?
Deeds speak louder than words. The biblical deity as depicted in the Pentateuch is capricious, self-aggrandizing, and acts like an ancient middle-eastern king, brutally murdering thousands at the slightest whiff of suspected insubordination or disrespect.
I disagree with you, this is misrepresentation. The difference between you and i is, i accept God's right to judge and sentence.
Why do you disagree with God's right to judge?
Show me examples of these traits which you accuse God of?
If Joshua's conquest of the holy land was more than a historical myth, it would qualify as the first recorded large-scale genocide and ethnic cleansing in history. They didn't even allow LIVESTOCK to live for fear of becoming "impure".
How would it be the largest genocide? Have you considered those people where judged by God?
Here we come to a new subject matter. How is the death penalty immoral?
I take it that English is not your first language,
Well english is my mother tongue. How does that make you feel?.
for otherwise that would mean you intentionally used such epithets to insult and patronize me -
Dude, i do that to everyone, but if you do not wish me to call you friend, dear, treasure, diamond, gem or any nice things then i will not after this post.
for that is how such excessive flourishes come across, "my dearest sugarcake".
I'm not your anything.
That is exaggeration and not my intention. So you are not my friend?
More of a cosmopolitan. The life of a foreigner is just as valuable to me as that of a fellow countryman, and there is no such thing as a "just war" - at best, there's a regrettable necessity for self-defense in some cases.
Familiar with and at ease in many different countries and cultures. A global citizen?
What would you do if someone was adamant to kill you and no matter what you did or say, this person will not be discouraged?
Would war against stalin be just? In regards to war, is the life of a foreign fighter just as valuable as your countrymen?
Cheers
