My Jesus Challenge

[AV1611VET]

Yes.. it should even be a hashtag that Twitter should make permanently trending.

I've never been to Twitter or Facebook.

 

[Zoness]

I've never been to Twitter or Facebook.

I've grown up on them so I have to say, lucky you. They're not that great these days.

 

[Robban]

But the concern stays the same regarding the loss of civilian lives within a war situation. The term ‘collateral damage’ has been taken in as an acceptable part of conflict. It’s not and it never will be by my measure. Neither is the way we treat innocent animals that may keep us alive in difficult times that we treat with such contempt in our want ridden desires of a armchair ‘feed me’ lifestyle that many live today. This is just general observation from my part, not comments aimed at you. I know we’ve spoken before on the topic of animal consumption.

I am not so sure any consideration is given to "civilians"

More like if they are from Germany they are enemy,
if they are from Japan they are enemy.

Example,
Dresden,
Hiroshima.

Today is worse,
and worse it will become by silencing opponents.

The worst is yet to come, unless......

 

[Eyes wide Open]

I am not so sure any consideration is given to "civilians"

More like if they are from Germany they are enemy,
if they are from Japan they are enemy.

Example,
Dresden,
Hiroshima.

Today is worse,
and worse it will become by silencing opponents.

The worst is yet to come, unless......

.....unless we battle that ego hard. Nationalism, racism, speciesism, sexism, homophobia, being materialistic, are all cultural constructs potentially creating a warped and concrete sense of self. Even our imagination and own cognitive capabilities can warp the ego, creating a barrier that cannot connect. Connect to what one might ask? ....and so the debate rages on.


Universal Eyes

What do you see, what landscape has your attention, do you see us and them, you and me.

The construct of ego sets this scene, demanding total respect, as yearns to be served. It’s this strong sense of self that can create the barrier, the division, the wall of disconnection.

Battle that ego hard and reduce it’s voice to a faint whisper. Then allow the expansion to travel far and wide, using the fuel of love, to create a human connection and harmony, that is our true destiny.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

Is the Biblical Jesus Christ a man-made invention?

With respect to the OP I’ll answer the question having chimed in elsewhere.

I don’t know if Jesus is a man made invention. Certainly my human experience thus far has created enough in my life to see the life he encouraged people to live whilst he was alive was a life of worth. Shame more are not living it.

 

[Robban]

.....unless we battle that ego hard. Nationalism, racism, speciesism, sexism, homophobia, being materialistic, are all cultural constructs potentially creating a warped and concrete sense of self. Even our imagination and own cognitive capabilities can warp the ego, creating a barrier that cannot connect. Connect to what one might ask? ....and so the debate rages on.


Universal Eyes

What do you see, what landscape has your attention, do you see us and them, you and me.

The construct of ego sets this scene, demanding total respect, as yearns to be served. It’s this strong sense of self that can create the barrier, the division, the wall of disconnection.

Battle that ego hard and reduce it’s voice to a faint whisper. Then allow the expansion to travel far and wide, using the fuel of love, to create a human connection and harmony, that is our true destiny.

These sound waves in the air, don,t know what they are called but they were not invented by man, as far as I understand,

they have always been there, man discovered the possibities they offer,

radio for example and with that a possibility to manipulate through propaganda.

A few decennier ago some countries had monopoly on sendings.

We can see and hear today advertizers telling us what we need, or they think they do.

How much more so when war mongerers use their coverups to manipulate and corrupt
the minds of a populace.

Unless a wonder of wonders come to pass, then there is not much chance of a shift
in anything.

Being alone, without any outside sounds alone in silence, can be scary for some,

Obviously not all can handle it for obvious reasons, but a short dose can make a difference.

Otherwise I don,t know, we are at least 7 billion today, that,s a lot of people.

 

[dlamberth]

Shame more are not living it.

A different world it would be.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

How would God be real to you?

*shrug*
Well, if there was a personal deity who interfered with human civilisation in a manner described by the various mythologies and religious stories, I'd expect reality to establish and reflect that interference.
In case of a non-literalist deity, I'd still expect a universe that corresponds more closely to a reality mapped out by a benevolent architect. As it is, you need a LOT of rationalisations and justifications to somehow avoid the Euthypro-dilemma, and I would say concluding that things are NOT run by an invisible superbeing just makes vastly more sense and requires less mental gymnastics.

Do you assume my belief in God is a personal preference?

While there are pick-and-choose believers who treat religion the way others treat fashion ,I'd say it is a more unconscious process for most.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Wow you sound like you know something cool. What is an example of a gap in our understanding?

Historically speaking, virtually everything that wasn't readily explainable with the methods and tools available at the time was attributed to the supernatural: lightning, diseases, earthquakes, the lunar cycle, monetary inflation - you name it. Only after we stopped believing them to be supernatural events did we find out how they really worked.

Nowadays, a good example would be the nature of consciousness and the psyche.

Who are you responsible to and why?

To myself, to the people around me, to life on this planet.
Why? Because no being is an island, because cooperation is what makes us human in the best sense of the word, and because we all depend on each other. It may seem as if unethical behaviour is profitable for the individual engaging in it (provided they are not caught), but even that is mostly wrong. Yes, a cruel dictator may die a rich man, in his sleep - but he'd die a cruel dictator.

Are you suggesting the Christian God is a ruler who holds absolute power and typically one who exercises it in a cruel or oppressive way. If God is not a reality, how do you know that?

Let's start with the second question: I know that the same way I know Darth Vader is a villain in Star Wars, even though I'm perfectly sure that menacing figure was never anything more than a fiction.
As for the first question: I'm not suggesting the Christian God is a dictator, because I don't think He's out there ruling the universe. I am, however, sometimes pointing out that the way some believers conceive of their deity (including scriptural passages from some books of the Bible) certainly PAINT that character in just such an unfavourable light.
The Calvinist/Reformed God as portrayed by the preacher Jonathan Edwards in the sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", for example, most certainly qualifies as a monstrous character.

Well my friend how about Thou shalt not kill. Do you not understand why you shouldnt or how it came to be?

Of course. The abhorrence we associate with murder is such a universal building block of social species that even non-human species exhibit it. Sadly - as with our own species - it is often only extended to members of our own group, whereas the killing of outsiders can be framed as an heroic act ("war heroes", "freedom fighters", etc.) in many societies and world views.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

These sound waves in the air, don,t know what they are called but they were not invented by man, as far as I understand,

they have always been there, man discovered the possibities they offer,

radio for example and with that a possibility to manipulate through propaganda.

A few decennier ago some countries had monopoly on sendings.

We can see and hear today advertizers telling us what we need, or they think they do.

How much more so when war mongerers use their coverups to manipulate and corrupt
the minds of a populace.

Unless a wonder of wonders come to pass, then there is not much chance of a shift
in anything.

Being alone, without any outside sounds alone in silence, can be scary for some,

Obviously not all can handle it for obvious reasons, but a short dose can make a difference.

Otherwise I don,t know, we are at least 7 billion today, that,s a lot of people.

I think a wonder of wonders will come to pass. What will continue to unfold will be our understanding of ourselves and how we create. We will shift because it’s what we do.That can happen individually, and does, or on mass. On mass is a tricky thing. There are many distractions, much information and action that feeds our psyche.

Being alone is a valuable thing, busyness is a distraction, we are constantly answering demands cognitively, always reacting to an action. Being alone or in stillness or amongst nature creates a different experience. We are no longer reacting to an action, its more a state of being as opposed to a state of doing, and yes it can be confronting to many, because it presents us with something different, a different experience.

 

[awitch]

I pray you have a safe trip.

Thank you.
I've returned safely.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thank you.
I've returned safely.

Welcome back.

 

[Vollbracht]

Historically speaking, virtually everything that wasn't readily explainable with the methods and tools available at the time was attributed to the supernatural: lightning, diseases, earthquakes, the lunar cycle, monetary inflation - you name it. Only after we stopped believing them to be supernatural events did we find out how they really worked.

Nowadays, a good example would be the nature of consciousness and the psyche.


To myself, to the people around me, to life on this planet.
Why? Because no being is an island, because cooperation is what makes us human in the best sense of the word, and because we all depend on each other. It may seem as if unethical behaviour is profitable for the individual engaging in it (provided they are not caught), but even that is mostly wrong. Yes, a cruel dictator may die a rich man, in his sleep - but he'd die a cruel dictator.


Let's start with the second question: I know that the same way I know Darth Vader is a villain in Star Wars, even though I'm perfectly sure that menacing figure was never anything more than a fiction.
As for the first question: I'm not suggesting the Christian God is a dictator, because I don't think He's out there ruling the universe. I am, however, sometimes pointing out that the way some believers conceive of their deity (including scriptural passages from some books of the Bible) certainly PAINT that character in just such an unfavourable light.
The Calvinist/Reformed God as portrayed by the preacher Jonathan Edwards in the sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", for example, most certainly qualifies as a monstrous character.


Of course. The abhorrence we associate with murder is such a universal building block of social species that even non-human species exhibit it. Sadly - as with our own species - it is often only extended to members of our own group, whereas the killing of outsiders can be framed as an heroic act ("war heroes", "freedom fighters", etc.) in many societies and world views.

LOL

 

[Robban]

I think a wonder of wonders will come to pass. What will continue to unfold will be our understanding of ourselves and how we create. We will shift because it’s what we do.That can happen individually, and does, or on mass. On mass is a tricky thing. There are many distractions, much information and action that feeds our psyche.

Being alone is a valuable thing, busyness is a distraction, we are constantly answering demands cognitively, always reacting to an action. Being alone or in stillness or amongst nature creates a different experience. We are no longer reacting to an action, its more a state of being as opposed to a state of doing, and yes it can be confronting to many, because it presents us with something different, a different experience.

Maybe we should not look around at the state of affairs as they are, but
how they should be.

Otherwise we are nothing more than a wave on the ocean,
cast here or there depending on which way the wind is blowing.

 

[Vollbracht]

Maybe we should not look around at the state of affairs as they are, but
how they should be.

Otherwise we are nothing more than a wave on the ocean,
cast here or there depending on which way the wind is blowing.

Jew? lol, ok....

אני יהוה ואין עוד זולתי אין אלהים אאזרך ולא ידעתני׃
למען ידעו ממזרח שׁמשׁ וממערבה כי אפס בלעדי אני יהוה ואין עוד׃
יוצר אור ובורא חשׁך עשׂה שׁלום ובורא רע אני יהוה עשׂה כל אלה׃

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

LOL

I tap my hat to you, good sir. Seldom have I come across such a brilliant, eloquent argument. You truly have mastered the art of the debate. Are you, by any chance, a Trump voter? It would explain your very stable genius.

 

[Vollbracht]

I tap my hat to you, good sir. Seldom have I come across such a brilliant, eloquent argument. You truly have mastered the art of the debate. Are you, by any chance, a Trump voter? It would explain your very stable genius.

Ich kenn dich, durch und durch. I am still waiting for a reply...

 

[Vollbracht]

Jew? lol, ok....

אני יהוה ואין עוד זולתי אין אלהים אאזרך ולא ידעתני׃
למען ידעו ממזרח שׁמשׁ וממערבה כי אפס בלעדי אני יהוה ואין עוד׃
יוצר אור ובורא חשׁך עשׂה שׁלום ובורא רע אני יהוה עשׂה כל אלה׃

Maybe I should clarify?

 

[Robban]

Jew? lol, ok....

אני יהוה ואין עוד זולתי אין אלהים אאזרך ולא ידעתני׃
למען ידעו ממזרח שׁמשׁ וממערבה כי אפס בלעדי אני יהוה ואין עוד׃
יוצר אור ובורא חשׁך עשׂה שׁלום ובורא רע אני יהוה עשׂה כל אלה׃

Guess what, I have never sat my foot in a synagogue either.

 

[Vollbracht]

Guess what, I have never sat my foot in a synagogue either.

It shows.