2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

JLB777 · Sep 8, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
You have shown repeatedly that you don't know the Bible.

Or believe it. Whatever.

The Greek word for "hope" means CONFIDENT EXPECTATION. Not a wishful thought.

Show me the verse that you are abusing.

The Greek word means completion, not "end of your life" as you have abused it.

The completion of one's faith is when they have placed their full trust in the work of Jesus Christ for their salvation. Which means nothing they've done.

Your opinion is lacking ANY verse that supports it.

And you don't seem to comprehend the DIFFERENCE between a description of Jesus' sheep, and the condition for never perishing, which is to be given eternal life.

And we know from John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11 and 13 that eternal life is given WHEN one believes. Which totally shatters your opinion.

And the 4 verses above tell us that we actually HAVE (means to possess) eternal life.

Please provide verses that support your opinions.

As it is, that's all you have; opinions. No Scripture.

Those who can't die anymore are those who have been given eternal life.
John 5:24, 6:47, 10:28, 1 John 5:11, 13, 1 Pet 1:23.

Chew on those verses for a while. Let them sink in.

And what's your point, again?

How does one become "worthy"? And don't give your opinion, but verses that tell us plainly.

Sure. And here, "done good" refers OBVIOUSLY back to v.24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Jesus covered the past, the present and the future all in one verse, for those who have believed.

They:
1. HAVE eternal life. They possess it.
2. WILL NOT be condemned. Ever. NO chance of hell fire.
3. HAVE PASSED from spiritual death to eternal life. Again, NO chance of hell fire.

But you've been real clear that you don't believe what the Bible so plainly says.

And Paul went on to write that every human being is a sinner, so that knocks out any wishful thinking (hope as you seem to understand it) on your part for "doing good" and earning eternal life. Rom 3:9, 23 tells us that all are sinners and have missed the mark.

Rom 3:20 tells us that NO ONE will be justified (given eternal life) by keeping the Law, which would be understood as "doing good".

The ONLY Person who fulfilled Rom 2:6-8 is the Lord Jesus.

This is a bold LIE. I've frequently acknowledged both the Judgment Seat of Christ in 2 Cor 5:10 and the Great White Throne judgment in Rev 20.

That would be a first for you.

I will die physically unless the rapture takes me first.

I cannot die spiritually, for I have been given eternal life by Jesus Christ and He said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

Further, I have been born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED, per 1 Pet 1:23, so I cannot perish spiritually.

No one has heard them yet. Included yourself. This question went off the rails again.

So, I have a simple reasonable question for you.

Has Jesus "come into His glory" yet?

Just your opinion with no scripture.

You will have to post actual scripture in the face of the overwhelming scriptural truth I presented.

Please answer my question that you have repeatedly dodged.

Can you die?

Have you stood before His throne to be judged according to your deeds?

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Sep 8, 2018

JLB777 said:
Just your opinion with no scripture.

Let's see how YOUR OWN opinion stacks up against my actual post:

I said this:
"And we know from John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11 and 13 that eternal life is given WHEN one believes. Which totally shatters your opinion.

And the 4 verses above tell us that we actually HAVE (means to possess) eternal life.

Please provide verses that support your opinions.

As it is, that's all you have; opinions. No Scripture.

Those who can't die anymore are those who have been given eternal life.
John 5:24, 6:47, 10:28, 1 John 5:11, 13, 1 Pet 1:23.

Chew on those verses for a while. Let them sink in.

And what's your point, again?"

And this:

"And Paul went on to write that every human being is a sinner, so that knocks out any wishful thinking (hope as you seem to understand it) on your part for "doing good" and earning eternal life. Rom 3:9, 23 tells us that all are sinners and have missed the mark.

Rom 3:20 tells us that NO ONE will be justified (given eternal life) by keeping the Law, which would be understood as "doing good".

The ONLY Person who fulfilled Rom 2:6-8 is the Lord Jesus.

This is a bold LIE. I've frequently acknowledged both the Judgment Seat of Christ in 2 Cor 5:10 and the Great White Throne judgment in Rev 20."

And this:

"I cannot die spiritually, for I have been given eternal life by Jesus Christ and He said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

Further, I have been born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED, per 1 Pet 1:23, so I cannot perish spiritually."

So, let's count the number of verses I cited: 14

But you keep claiming that they aren't "Scripture", so I'll let the thread decide who's the one who gives opinions without any Scripture to back up their opinions.

You will have to post actual scripture in the face of the overwhelming scriptural truth I presented.

All Scripture is truth, so you've made no point. The issue is whether the post even understands what the Scripture means.

Please answer my question that you have repeatedly dodged.

Can you die?

This WAS my answer:

"I will die physically unless the rapture takes me first.

I cannot die spiritually, for I have been given eternal life by Jesus Christ and He said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

Further, I have been born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED, per 1 Pet 1:23, so I cannot perish spiritually."

Did I use words that were too complicated for you to understand? Do I need to boil it down a bit further so that you can comprehend my answer?

What?

Have you stood before His throne to be judged according to your deeds?

Slightly differently worded question, but this is what I DID answer:

"No one has heard them yet. Included yourself. This question went off the rails again."

This is what you initially asked:
"Have you stood before His throne and heard these words yet?

‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

So, you see, I DID answer both of your questions.

So, would you like me to count up the number of LIES you've made in your post?

However, since I've now answer your 2 questions twice, how about this time NOT ignoring my question that I asked in my last post:

"So, I have a simple reasonable question for you.

Has Jesus "come into His glory" yet?"

JLB777 · Sep 9, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Let's see how YOUR OWN opinion stacks up against my actual post:

I said this:
"And we know from John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11 and 13 that eternal life is given WHEN one believes. Which totally shatters your opinion.

And the 4 verses above tell us that we actually HAVE (means to possess) eternal life.

Please provide verses that support your opinions.

As it is, that's all you have; opinions. No Scripture.

Those who can't die anymore are those who have been given eternal life.
John 5:24, 6:47, 10:28, 1 John 5:11, 13, 1 Pet 1:23.

Chew on those verses for a while. Let them sink in.

And what's your point, again?"

And this:

"And Paul went on to write that every human being is a sinner, so that knocks out any wishful thinking (hope as you seem to understand it) on your part for "doing good" and earning eternal life. Rom 3:9, 23 tells us that all are sinners and have missed the mark.

Rom 3:20 tells us that NO ONE will be justified (given eternal life) by keeping the Law, which would be understood as "doing good".

The ONLY Person who fulfilled Rom 2:6-8 is the Lord Jesus.

This is a bold LIE. I've frequently acknowledged both the Judgment Seat of Christ in 2 Cor 5:10 and the Great White Throne judgment in Rev 20."

And this:

"I cannot die spiritually, for I have been given eternal life by Jesus Christ and He said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

Further, I have been born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED, per 1 Pet 1:23, so I cannot perish spiritually."

So, let's count the number of verses I cited: 14

But you keep claiming that they aren't "Scripture", so I'll let the thread decide who's the one who gives opinions without any Scripture to back up their opinions.

All Scripture is truth, so you've made no point. The issue is whether the post even understands what the Scripture means.

This WAS my answer:

"I will die physically unless the rapture takes me first.

I cannot die spiritually, for I have been given eternal life by Jesus Christ and He said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

Further, I have been born again of IMPERISHABLE SEED, per 1 Pet 1:23, so I cannot perish spiritually."

Did I use words that were too complicated for you to understand? Do I need to boil it down a bit further so that you can comprehend my answer?

What?

Slightly differently worded question, but this is what I DID answer:

"No one has heard them yet. Included yourself. This question went off the rails again."

This is what you initially asked:
"Have you stood before His throne and heard these words yet?

‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

So, you see, I DID answer both of your questions.

So, would you like me to count up the number of LIES you've made in your post?

However, since I've now answer your 2 questions twice, how about this time NOT ignoring my question that I asked in my last post:

"So, I have a simple reasonable question for you.

Has Jesus "come into His glory" yet?"

LOL!!!

Still no scripture. And no answer to my questions.

Can you at least point out where 2 Thessalonians 2:12 states anything about eternal security as your thread title proclaims?

that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:12

Please point out the word “eternal” or “security” or “eternal life” in your verse that supposedly proves eternal security.

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Sep 9, 2018

JLB777 said:
LOL!!!

Still no scripture.

Anyone who expands my quote in your post can easily count 14 citations. All of which you count as "no scripture".

Pathetic.

And no answer to my questions.

If you don't understand basic English, just say so.

Can you at least point out where 2 Thessalonians 2:12 states anything about eternal security as your thread title proclaims?

I pointed out WHO will be condemned; "who did not believe the truth".

Don't you see that "who did NOT believe" cannot include anyone who has ever believed?

If someone ever did believe, even thought later on might cease to believe, cannot be included in who WILL BE condemned. Because they "did believe" at one time.

And this harmonizes with John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Those who have believed will not be judged.

Or what else Jesus said, in John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Simply on the basis of being given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:12

Please point out the word “eternal” or “security” or “eternal life” in your verse that supposedly proves eternal security.

Since it seems you're so concerned by finding specific words in this one verse, but ignore the very clear words of John 5:24, 6:47, 10:28, 1 John 5:11 and 13, where is ANY verse that uses the words "lose salvation" in any form:

lose salvation
loss of salvation
losing salvation
forfeiting salvation
misplacing salvation
former believer goes to hell
former believer won't go to heaven

lol. It's your theology that fails to provide any verse that clearly states your claim.

JLB777 · Sep 9, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Anyone who expands my quote in your post can easily count 14 citations. All of which you count as "no scripture".

Pathetic.

Here is your “citation” -

I cannot die spiritually, for I have been given eternal life by Jesus Christ and He said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28

That’s not scripture. That’s your opinion tagged with a scripture reference.

Therefore no scripture.

Very deceptive and very pathetic.

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Sep 10, 2018

Anyone who expands my quote in your post can easily count 14 citations. All of which you count as "no scripture".

Pathetic.

JLB777 said:
Here is your “citation” -
This is just a part of my post:
"I cannot die spiritually, for I have been given eternal life by Jesus Christ and He said those He gives eternal life shall NEVER PERISH. John 10:28"

So, here's ONE verse, which IS Scripture, and one that you don't believe and have rejected.

However, as I noted, any one can expand my quote in your previous post and count the number of verses I cited.

That’s not scripture.

Click to expand...

This is just a stupid comment. John 10:28 most certainly is Scripture. It is the very words of Jesus, which you have rejected. Which is also stupid.

[QUOET] That’s your opinion tagged with a scripture reference.

Your hang-up with a citation vs a full quote is meaningless and lacks intelligence as well.

Therefore no scripture.
Very deceptive and very pathetic.

That's what all your opinion are.

You said this:
"2 Thessalonians 2:12

Please point out the word “eternal” or “security” or “eternal life” in your verse that supposedly proves eternal security."

I responded:
"Since it seems you're so concerned by finding specific words in this one verse, but ignore the very clear words of John 5:24, 6:47, 10:28, 1 John 5:11 and 13, where is ANY verse that uses the words "lose salvation" in any form:

lose salvation
loss of salvation
losing salvation
forfeiting salvation
misplacing salvation
former believer goes to hell
former believer won't go to heaven

lol. It's your theology that fails to provide any verse that clearly states your claim."

And, again, you just ignore the challenges that you are unable to meet.

If salvation could be lost, there would be verses that actually say so.

All you've got, besides your opinions, are verses that are full of metaphors, or verses that you mistranslate or misinterpret horribly in order to support your opinions.

I gave you an explanation of John 10:28 that was color coded so that even grade schoolers could follow the explanation.

And you've NEVER even tried to show that my explanation was wrong. You just claim that it is wrong, without any evidence at all to show what the verse actually says.

Oh, and the claim that v.27 somehow represents the "cause" of never perishing in v.28 is just laughable, because v.27 is simply a description of Jesus' sheep.

The CAUSE of never perishing is found in v.28, where Jesus said, "I give them eternal life". That is the CAUSE of never perishing.

And Jesus previously stated WHEN one is given eternal life. It is WHEN they believe in Him.

So, from the MOMENT one believes, Jesus says they shall never perish.

Yet, your opinion continues to reject what Jesus said. Your opinion is that any believer CAN perish, if...... Jesus gave no "if's" or "as long as" conditions between giving eternal life and never perishing.

So, either you have trouble comprehending word meanings, or you just hate what He said.

Either way makes no difference. You are sideways with the Lord Jesus.

And that isn't smart, at all.

JLB777 · Sep 10, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Anyone who expands my quote in your post can easily count 14 citations. All of which you count as "no scripture".

Pathetic.

Your hang-up with a citation vs a full quote is meaningless and lacks intelligence as well.

That's what all your opinion are.

You said this:
"2 Thessalonians 2:12

Please point out the word “eternal” or “security” or “eternal life” in your verse that supposedly proves eternal security."

I responded:
"Since it seems you're so concerned by finding specific words in this one verse, but ignore the very clear words of John 5:24, 6:47, 10:28, 1 John 5:11 and 13, where is ANY verse that uses the words "lose salvation" in any form:

lose salvation
loss of salvation
losing salvation
forfeiting salvation
misplacing salvation
former believer goes to hell
former believer won't go to heaven

lol. It's your theology that fails to provide any verse that clearly states your claim."

And, again, you just ignore the challenges that you are unable to meet.

If salvation could be lost, there would be verses that actually say so.

All you've got, besides your opinions, are verses that are full of metaphors, or verses that you mistranslate or misinterpret horribly in order to support your opinions.

I gave you an explanation of John 10:28 that was color coded so that even grade schoolers could follow the explanation.

And you've NEVER even tried to show that my explanation was wrong. You just claim that it is wrong, without any evidence at all to show what the verse actually says.

Oh, and the claim that v.27 somehow represents the "cause" of never perishing in v.28 is just laughable, because v.27 is simply a description of Jesus' sheep.

The CAUSE of never perishing is found in v.28, where Jesus said, "I give them eternal life". That is the CAUSE of never perishing.

And Jesus previously stated WHEN one is given eternal life. It is WHEN they believe in Him.

So, from the MOMENT one believes, Jesus says they shall never perish.

Yet, your opinion continues to reject what Jesus said. Your opinion is that any believer CAN perish, if...... Jesus gave no "if's" or "as long as" conditions between giving eternal life and never perishing.

So, either you have trouble comprehending word meanings, or you just hate what He said.

Either way makes no difference. You are sideways with the Lord Jesus.

And that isn't smart, at all.

Those who hide their man made doctrine in the opinions of man show that their doctrine is from the darkness.

Any doctrine that is not in accordance with godliness and truth is not from God.

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

Born again Christian’s that do not live godly but live sinful lives will not be welcome into God’s kingdom on the Day of Judgement.

You continue to ignore the warnings of scripture about the day when all will be judged according to our deeds.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Here are those who will receive eternal life on that Day -

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Sep 10, 2018

JLB777 said:
Those who hide their man made doctrine in the opinions of man show that their doctrine is from the darkness.

OK, I agree. Which is what you've done. No verses EVER on losing salvation.

Just a lot of verses that don't say that.

Any doctrine that is not in accordance with godliness and truth is not from God.

And any claim that goes directly against what Jesus Christ taught is not from God.

Jesus said those who believe have eternal life.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

These 3 verses very plainly say that those who believe possess eternal life.

So where is any verse that speaks of having eternal life taken away from them? None.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

And just to be real clear: the "has given us eternal life" phrase PROVES that for those who have believed, they have eternal life.

iow, they're not hoping and waiting for it, as your man made doctrine claims. What they are waiting for is eternity itself, when they will be with God.

And you've never provided any verses about eternal life being taken away, much less how it could be taken away.

Then Jesus said those He gives eternal life (believers) shall never perish.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

You always claim v.27 is the cause of never perishing. So let's look at both verses together and see the conditions and results of all of it.

And I'm going to color code it for you, so you can easily address all my points.

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The red words are a description of what Jesus' sheep DO by 3 active verbs. And the condition for the blue words.
The Blue words are the result of being a sheep of Jesus. And the condition for the green words.
The green words are the result of being a recipient of eternal life.

So there you have it. All of it.

The condition for being given eternal life is to be His sheep.
The condition for never perishing is to be given eternal life.

Since the 4 verses above this tell us WHEN one is given eternal life, we for a certainty that from the MOMENT one believes, they shall never perish.

And you have not, because you cannot, prove otherwise.

You cannot prove that any recipient of eternal life can perish.

So your man made doctrine is sideways with the Lord Jesus.

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

You really should take these verses to heart, since you've been refuted soundly from Scripture time after time.

Born again Christian’s that do not live godly but live sinful lives will not be welcome into God’s kingdom on the Day of Judgement.

The devil just loves when God's children disagree with God's word, as you do.

Every born again Christian HAS BEEN GIVEN eternal life. 1 John 5:11 above.

Therefore, they WILL enter God's kingdom because they shall never perish.

You continue to ignore the warnings of scripture about the day when all will be judged according to our deeds.

You continue to fail to properly divide the word of truth and understand any of the warnings. But your man made doctrine does please the devil.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Paul wrote a whole lot more than just this. To show that NO HUMAN can meet this criteria.

Rom 3:9 - What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.

Rom 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So, since all are under the power of sin and HAVE sinned, Paul made the point that NO HUMAN can "by patient continuance in doing good" receive eternal life.

But I suppose you will be able to squirm your way out of your dilemma and explain how a sinner can "by patient continuance in doing good" earn eternal life.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

Said the sinner who is under the power of sin and CANNOT "by patient continuance in doing good" earn eternal life.

So, please explain how a sinner under the power of sin fulfill the phrase "by patient continuance in doing good".

How does that work: a sinner under the power of sin patiently and continually doing good?

JLB777 · Sep 10, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
OK, I agree. Which is what you've done. No verses EVER on losing salvation.

Just a lot of verses that don't say that.

I have never said a person can lose their salvation, those are your words.

Jesus Christ is our salvation.

Jesus Christ does not get lost.

People who belong to Him become lost.

Do the lost need salvation?

I have asked this question many times with no answer from you.

Yes or No?

Do the lost need salvation?

JLB

JLB777 · Sep 10, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Paul wrote a whole lot more than just this. To show that NO HUMAN can meet this criteria.

Rom 3:9 - What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.

Rom 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So, since all are under the power of sin and HAVE sinned, Paul made the point that NO HUMAN can "by patient continuance in doing good" receive eternal life.

But I suppose you will be able to squirm your way out of your dilemma and explain how a sinner can "by patient continuance in doing good" earn eternal life.

Here is who will receive eternal life according to Paul -

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Nothing you can ever say will change these words.

Jesus taught the same exact thing -

those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; - Paul

those who have done good, to the resurrection of life - Jesus

The only other position would be that those who live in sin and do evil receive eternal life.

Which exposes your doctrine as demonic.

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Sep 10, 2018

JLB777 said:
I have never said a person can lose their salvation, those are your words.

I don't care what you or anyone else calls it. You believe that a person who has believed in Christ for salvation CAN end up in the lake of fire. Jesus said those He gives eternal life, which is when they believe, shall never perish.

Jesus Christ is our salvation.

Jesus Christ does not get lost.

Your heretical ideas should get lost.

People who belong to Him become lost.

Jesus said His sheep shall never perish.

Do the lost need salvation?

Every person in humanity needs salvation, or will perish in the lake of fire.

I have asked this question many times with no answer from you.

I've answered every time, but you're just too dishonest to admit it.

Jesus said He gives salvation to believers. John 5:24, 6:47
Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

Your opinions are sideways to the Lord Jesus.

FreeGrace2 · Sep 10, 2018

JLB777 said:
Here is who will receive eternal life according to Paul -

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

This was my answer in my previous post to your nonsense:

"Paul wrote a whole lot more than just this. To show that NO HUMAN can meet this criteria.

Rom 3:9 - What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.

Rom 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So, since all are under the power of sin and HAVE sinned, Paul made the point that NO HUMAN can "by patient continuance in doing good" receive eternal life.

But I suppose you will be able to squirm your way out of your dilemma and explain how a sinner can "by patient continuance in doing good" earn eternal life."

Either you don't even bother to read the posts of others, or you just can't understand them.

Nothing you can ever say will change these words.

That is exactly true for those whose minds are tightly closed to truth.

Jesus taught the same exact thing -

those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

But those whose minds are open to truth, know that 5 verse previous to the unnamed verse you partially quoted, says that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. John 5:24. He also said the same thing in John 6:47.

And the apostle John said the same thing in 1 John 5:11,13.

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

Given the context including v.24, it is obvious to those with open minds that "have done good" refers specifically to believing in Christ.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; - Paul

those who have done good, to the resurrection of life - Jesus

Your "goody two-shoes" religion will get you a ticket to the lake of fire.

Which exposes your doctrine as demonic.

You've swallowed the devil's LIE hook, line and sinker.

If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

Fits your demonic doctrine to a T.

JLB777 · Sep 11, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
I don't care what you or anyone else calls it. You believe that a person who has believed in Christ for salvation CAN end up in the lake of fire.

Yes, that is what the bible plainly teaches.

His sheep can indeed become lost.
All 100 sheep belong to the shepherd.
One becomes lost.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

Do the lost need salvation? YES!

Jesus is describing what we are to do, about sheep who have wandered away and become lost.

He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.” John 21:16

Jesus is in Heaven.

Jesus has finished His ministry on earth, in which His Spirit now dwells in us, for us to do the works that He did.

Here it is from Jesus -

he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. John 14:12

It's up to believers to preach the Gospel to the world of unbelievers.
It's up to believers to teach the truth to the Church.
It's up to believers to cast out devils.
It's up to believers to heal the sick.
It's up to believer's to go after a brother or sister who is lost, to turn them back to Christ.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

A Christian who wanders away and becomes lost is no longer justified [declared right with God], and has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance, or remain lost.

Matthew's version shows us what Jesus taught about dealing with such a person, and in context shows us the principle of forgiveness and unforgiveness.

“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.

Christians can indeed become unforgiving - Continuing with the context of the lost sheep, Jesus teaches us about unforgivness:

So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.” Matthew 18:29-35

Christian brothers and sisters can indeed become angry and hateful.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

JLB

JLB777 · Sep 11, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
This was my answer in my previous post to your nonsense:

"Paul wrote a whole lot more than just this. To show that NO HUMAN can meet this criteria.

Rom 3:9 - What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.

Rom 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So, since all are under the power of sin and HAVE sinned, Paul made the point that NO HUMAN can "by patient continuance in doing good" receive eternal life.

But I suppose you will be able to squirm your way out of your dilemma and explain how a sinner can "by patient continuance in doing good" earn eternal life."

Either you don't even bother to read the posts of others, or you just can't understand them.

We all, Jews and Gentiles who are Christ's have a choice to live according to the flesh, and obey it's lustful desires, or to live our lives according to the Spirit within us, to obey the truth, expressing the righteous desires of the Spirit, which is love.

A sinner, whether an unbeliever who has never believed, or a brother in Christ who has become lost, can live according to the Spirit.

Eternal Life is for those who obey the truth: The Spirit of Christ within.

This will be determined at the Judgement of Christ, when He Judges each person according to what they have been given, and the measure of what they do with His life and Spirit they have been given.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Paul teaches this principle throughout all his letters to the Churches, warning them about practicing the works of the flesh, and sowing to the flesh.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:8

If a man does things to please his sinful old self, his soul will be lost. If a man does things to please the Holy Spirit, he will have life that lasts forever. Galatians 6:8 NLV

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:2-6

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Therefore do not be partakers with them.

JLB

JLB777 · Sep 11, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
This was my answer in my previous post to your nonsense:

"Paul wrote a whole lot more than just this. To show that NO HUMAN can meet this criteria.

Rom 3:9 - What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.

Rom 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So, since all are under the power of sin and HAVE sinned, Paul made the point that NO HUMAN can "by patient continuance in doing good" receive eternal life.

But I suppose you will be able to squirm your way out of your dilemma and explain how a sinner can "by patient continuance in doing good" earn eternal life."

Either you don't even bother to read the posts of others, or you just can't understand them.

That is exactly true for those whose minds are tightly closed to truth.

But those whose minds are open to truth, know that 5 verse previous to the unnamed verse you partially quoted, says that those who believe POSSESS eternal life. John 5:24. He also said the same thing in John 6:47.

And the apostle John said the same thing in 1 John 5:11,13.

Given the context including v.24, it is obvious to those with open minds that "have done good" refers specifically to believing in Christ.

Your "goody two-shoes" religion will get you a ticket to the lake of fire.

You've swallowed the devil's LIE hook, line and sinker.

Fits your demonic doctrine to a T.

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God. 1 Corinthians 4:5

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Sep 11, 2018

I said:
"I don't care what you or anyone else calls it. You believe that a person who has believed in Christ for salvation CAN end up in the lake of fire."

JLB777 said:
Yes, that is what the bible plainly teaches.

So why did you DENY that you believe in loss of salvation, since here you say YES to one who did believe (and was therefore saved) can end up in the lake of fire?

Your are intellectually contradicted.

His sheep can indeed become lost.

All 100 sheep belong to the shepherd.

One becomes lost.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

Click to expand...

Sure. Hide behind a parable, which was designed to NOT be understood. Even Jesus' own disciples had to have the parables explained to them. Just like you need them explained to you.

Do the lost need salvation? YES![/QUOTE]
True. And the Bible describes the lost as those who NEVER believed.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

I'll let you tell me who will be condemned by these 2 verses.

And, please provide all the verses you have collected by now that tell us that those who USED TO believe will be condemned. Since these 2 verses don't mention former believers at all.

Jesus is describing what we are to do, about sheep who have wandered away and become lost.

The problem is your unbiblical spiritualizing the parable, and twisting and perverting it all out of shape.

Jesus is in Heaven.

Jesus has finished His ministry on earth, in which His Spirit now dwells in us, for us to do the works that He did.

Here it is from Jesus -

he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. John 14:12

It's up to believers to preach the Gospel to the world of unbelievers.
It's up to believers to teach the truth to the Church.
It's up to believers to cast out devils.
It's up to believers to heal the sick.
It's up to believer's to go after a brother or sister who is lost, to turn them back to Christ.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

A Christian who wanders away and becomes lost is no longer justified [declared right with God]

I'm really not interested at all in your opinions and theories, but I am very interested in what the Bible says.

So, please provide all the verses that teach that justification is removed when a person ceases to believe.

“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17

I've already given the biblical reason why Jesus used parables. They weren't designed to be understood. And even His own disciples had to have them explained to them. Just as you do.

So his fellow servant fell down at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.” Matthew 18:29-35

Another parable that you need explaining to understand.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

I've already explained this verse to you. It's your choice to reject the truth.

And since Jesus said that recipients (not just some of them) of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28, and John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 both say that those who will be condemned are those who NEVER believed, your theories have been refuted.

Go ahead and treat these citations of Scripture as "no scripture" to your heart's content, but they are truth and they refute your false doctrine completely.

Only those who have not believed will be condemned to the lake of fire.

Only those who have been given eternal life shall never perish.

That is eternal security.

FreeGrace2 · Sep 11, 2018

I said:
"Rom 3:9 - What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.

Rom 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So, since all are under the power of sin and HAVE sinned, Paul made the point that NO HUMAN can "by patient continuance in doing good" receive eternal life.

But I suppose you will be able to squirm your way out of your dilemma and explain how a sinner can "by patient continuance in doing good" earn eternal life."

Either you don't even bother to read the posts of others, or you just can't understand them."

JLB777 said:
We all, Jews and Gentiles who are Christ's have a choice to live according to the flesh, and obey it's lustful desires, or to live our lives according to the Spirit within us, to obey the truth, expressing the righteous desires of the Spirit, which is love.

How does any of this result in your made up doctrine that salvation can be lost?

A sinner, whether an unbeliever who has never believed, or a brother in Christ who has become lost, can live according to the Spirit.

You simply fail to accept, or reject outright, that both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 say that it is those who HAVE NOT BELIEVED that will be condemned.

Where are your verses about those who used to believe being condemned to the lake of fire? I'll tell you. There aren't any such verses. Your doctrine is a house of cards.

Eternal Life is for those who obey the truth: The Spirit of Christ within.

What you keep failing to comprehend is that "obey the truth" means to believe the gospel. So yes, that is who receives eternal life; those who believe the gospel. I've frequently provided 24 verses that specifically say that eternal life and salvation are by believing the gospel.

I have no idea what your theories about "obeying the truth" might be, because you've neever been clear about anything you post. And you don't answer questions.

This will be determined at the Judgement of Christ, when He Judges each person according to what they have been given, and the measure of what they do with His life and Spirit they have been given.

The Bema is where believers will be either rewarded for their obedience or lose reward for lack of obedience, as 1 Cor 3:14,15 shows.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Here we go again. Paul wrote Rom 3:9 and 3:23 to teach that human beings cannot fulfill Rom 2:6-8. So your hope for eternal life resting on those verses will get you hell instead.

Don't you realize that if one could earn eternal life by Rom 2:6-8, then that person would NOT need the sacrifice of Christ? What's wrong with you?

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

The only human who fulfilled this was Jesus Christ. That qualified Him to pay the sin debt for every human being on the cross.

Your hope is on nothing but a house of cards.

Paul teaches this principle throughout all his letters to the Churches, warning them about practicing the works of the flesh, and sowing to the flesh.

Not because of losing salvation, but for reward and blessing through obedience.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

Since every human being is born IN SIN and is spiritually DEAD at birth, the red words here cannot refer to spiritual death. It IS referring to breaking fellowship with God and Christ by sin. But your made up theology has no place for the concept of fellowship.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

And we know from John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 that only those who have not believed will be condemned.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

Nothing here about losing salvation, or being condemned to hell because of anything.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

This verse is directly about being in fellowship and filled with the Spirit. In which case, the believer cannot sin (fulfill the lusts of the flesh).

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

And I've frequently explained that "not inherit the kingdom", also found in 1 Cor 6 are equal to Eph 5:5 and the words "have no inheritance IN the kingdom".

All 3 passages are parallel and therefore "not inherit" and "have no inheritance" are equated. It speaks of loss of reward in the kingdom, not failure to enter the kingdom.

For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:8

While your Pharisaical mind thinks one earns eternal life, what IS earned is reward, not salvation, which is a gift.

By definition, a gift cannot be earned.
By definition, a reward has to be earned.

But you're not interested in the facts.

If a man does things to please his sinful old self, his soul will be lost. If a man does things to please the Holy Spirit, he will have life that lasts forever. Galatians 6:8 NLV

Sure. Use a pathetic paraphrase translation that is totally unbiblical.

However, this is the NLT from biblehub.com:
Those who live only to satisfy their own sinful nature will harvest decay and death from that sinful nature. But those who live to please the Spirit will harvest everlasting life from the Spirit.

So your red words came from some other pathetic paraphrased version.

Here are some formal equivalent translations of the verse:
ESV - For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Berean Study Bible - The one who sows to please his flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Berean Literal Bible - For the one sowing to his own flesh, from the flesh will reap decay. But the one sowing to the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

NASB - For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Holman Christian Standard Bible - because the one who sows to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.

Young's Literal Translation - because he who is sowing to his own flesh, of the flesh shall reap corruption; and he who is sowing to the Spirit, of the Spirit shall reap life age-during;

So we see that whatever translation isn't even close to reputable translations.

It is flesh destruction that is being described, not soul being lost. lol.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

OK, this the another parallel to Gal 5:19-21. Why don't you ever bother to include Eph 5:5, as it is also parallel to Gal 5 and 1 Cor 6?

So, I'll provide it to show that it is parallel and equals "not inherit" with "no inheritance IN the kingdom".

For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance IN the kingdom of Christ and of God.

There it is. Nothing about NOT ENTERING the kingdom, as you wish, but simply having no inheritance IN the kingdom.

And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:2-6

Well, good for you. Finally including Eph 5:5 along with the other 2 parallel passages on loss of reward IN the kingdom.

[/QUOTE]

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Therefore do not be partakers with them.

[/QUOTE]
Your man made theology is also just empty words that will lead those who accept it to the lake of fire. Where the Pharisees went, who believed very similarly to your views.

FreeGrace2 · Sep 11, 2018

JLB777 said:
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God. 1 Corinthians 4:5

The verse is clear about NOT judging anything. Let the Lord do all the judging. He will judge all believers regarding their lives, and every word they said.

We are not to judge other believers. Leave that to the Lord.

How or why you think this verse supports anything you claim is a mystery.

JLB777 · Sep 12, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
I've already given the biblical reason why Jesus used parables. They weren't designed to be understood.

LOL.

You just proved by the words of your own mouth that your heart has grown dull and hard, and that you have closed your eyes that you may not see.

In you are fulfilled these words.

Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

If you don’t understand the parables He explained then why do you reject the truth of Hos word that you claim to not understand?

For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

JLB

FreeGrace2 · Sep 12, 2018

I said:
"I've already given the biblical reason why Jesus used parables. They weren't designed to be understood."

JLB777 said:
LOL.

You just proved by the words of your own mouth that your heart has grown dull and hard, and that you have closed your eyes that you may not see.

The dull of hearing is yourself.

Listen to Scripture:
Matt 13:10,13
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

Mark 4:10,11,13
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

However, even His own disciples kep asking Him what His parables meant. They needed to have them explained, just as you need to have them explained.

In you are fulfilled these words.

Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

This explains you to a T.

If you don’t understand the parables He explained then why do you reject the truth of Hos word that you claim to not understand?

That has been my question to you for a long time. And you've never answered.

When Jesus stated both the CAUSE and the EFFECT of possessing eternal life in John 10:28, you continue to reject what He said.

So, you can't understand any parable when you either can't understand or flatout reject straight forward statements from Jesus.

2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

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