A question for flat earth people

JacksBratt said:

The scripture is overwhelmingly, from Genesis to Revelations... a Flat earth book.

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WHERE does scripture state that Earth is FLAT ?

JackRT said:

No, but I do not regard the Bible as either literal or inerrant so that lack of scriptural confirmation is no problem for me. When it comes to questions regarding nature, I prefer evidence.

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What is your evidence for your salvation?

I have said this before....
There is absolutely no logic or scientific evidence for Christ's life and what He did... or that He can save us.. or of the afterlife...

Meanwhile... all and I mean ALL of the Christians that I know that are solid scientific "I want evidence" people.. fail to realize that the only thing in their life that matters AT ALL... has no evidence.

They will toss out the 6 days of creation...
The flood... yep... all washed up.
The ark.. the ark... hogwash...
Evolution... ya... siss boom bah.. let's run with that
Big bang... Heliocentric model.. bring it.. love that stuff
and...Anything Bill Nye the Actor Guy spews out his mouth.. they are all over it.

The Bible.. ya.. it's a good book.. Nice stories and leasons but not literall

BUT... BUT... Don't you dare take out the gospel.... HECK, my soul depends on that..

So.. ya.. the bible is all myth and fairy tale..cause Fred at the lab says he has evidence but except that Jesus part... Ya, that Jesus part.. walking on water... virgin mother, water to wine... saved a bunch of deaf and blind people.. oh ya.. died... ya.. died... buried... then most important.. came back to life...

Whatever you do.. don't ever think that that part is fairy tale.. nope... just every other part of it that I can't SPLAIN.. away with math or by someone with a bunch of letters after their name..

A_Thinker said:

Also note that the atmosphere thins as you (or a helium atom) gain altitude. Thus, a low-mass molecule can traverse Earth's atmosphere to reach the very thin upper reaches where the atmosphere finally gives way to the vacuum of space.

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JacksBratt said:

So, is 100% of our He2 and H2 up there? If not, according to gravity, why not?

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Very little Hydrogen and Helium remain in our atmosphere ... for the reasons stated previously. However, small amounts of Hydrogen and Helium are persistently released into the atmosphere by chemical/radioactive processes here on Earth.

A_Thinker said:

WHERE does scripture state that Earth is FLAT ?

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Check out this guy's site... He is a strong Christian. When he first heard of the FE he did what everyone does... "What the heck.. you're crazy dude" sort of thing.

He researched and is now one of the most solid Christian men who I know of that is a fantastic researcher and is solidly biblically based... He has came into much persecution and financial loss do to coming out to proclaim his belief..

Here you go:
http://www.testingtheglobe.com/bible.html

A_Thinker said:

Very little Hydrogen and Helium remain in our atmosphere ... for the reasons stated previously. However, small amounts of Hydrogen and Helium are persistently released into the atmosphere by chemical/radioactive processes here on Earth.

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So is CO2.. nudge nudge wink wink.. Oh, I know.. different hoax.. sorry.

JacksBratt said:

It's scientific babble.... they have to say something so that all the sheeple can go "oh, ya, I guess that must be it... he's smart, he has messy hair and wears a tie with his white lab coat."

Nobody thinks anymore. Nobody tests things anymore. We have grown up in a society where you listen to the teacher..... store what they told you in your head, on paper, on your laptop... regurgitate it on the exam.. and get letters after your name.

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I agree - particularly with regards to this subject. Once one realizes that the earth is not what we've been taught since we were old enough to understand things, everything else we were taught is subject to inquiry/critique. Only Scripture stands firm and speaks for itself. Ironically due to the flat earth debate, many people who were formerly atheists/agnostics have become Christians while the Christians continue to steadfastly believe in the ball earth.

A_Thinker said:

The Bible doesn't say that the earth is COVERED/ENCLOSED by the firmament.

The Bible says that the firmament separates the waters of the Earth from the waters of the heavens. This scripture describes the separation between the waters of the Earth (i.e. oceans, seas, rivers, lakes, etc.) ... and the waters of the heavens (i.e. the clouds).

Genesis 1

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

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Like anything else regarding the scriptures, I suggest you take the time to study the word raqiya variously translated as firmament, heavens, expanse. From a basic look at Strong's:
extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament

1. expanse (flat as base, support)
   
   
2. firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
   
   1. considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above

רָקִיעַ râqîyaʻ, raw-kee'-ah; from H7554; properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:—firmament.

The Hebrew cosmology consists of a flat, circular earth over which a solid dome/râqîya exists. You have instead chosen to believe that râqîya means our clouds/atmosphere but if that were the case, then you would have to account for Gen 1:16-17 where it plainly states that God placed the sun, moon & stars in the firmament. And Gen 1:20 where God also places the birds of the air in the râqîya/firmament. Based on this Genesis account the birds, sun, moon and stars are all placed in the firmament. Since it is obvious that the birds fly in our atmosphere, it brings into the conflict the scientific propaganda that the sun, moon, stars exist outside of our atmosphere in a thing they call "outer space."

JackRT said:

No, but I do not regard the Bible as either literal or inerrant so that lack of scriptural confirmation is no problem for me. When it comes to questions regarding nature, I prefer evidence.

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If that's what you believe, so be it as that is certainly your prerogative. And since you believe the Bible is not inerrant, why believe it at all since you have made yourself to be the final arbiter of all truth?

Gravity is the linchpin to the globe earth theory, yet itself is a theory that has never been proven.

JacksBratt said:

If the air will move from an area of high pressure to one of lower pressure.. why does it not, then, move from one of high pressure, anywhere in our atmosphere, (not to mention...in the upper atmosphere where even men are almost weightless), to the area of low pressure, well in reality an area of NO pressure, in space?

Like the poster who questioned why the atmosphere doesn't just get sucked out into the dark void.... would this not be quite a wind storm?

The difference in high pressure to low pressure, on earth, that creates wind and rain and bright sunny days.... is a lot less of a difference than that of our atmosphere... and the void of space.

Is it not?

I don't think you have come close to solving this query.

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No, just pointing out some basic facts. If you really want to understand how it all works I think you’d need to embark on a program of study. Actually there are a lot of colleges offering free courses online including a lot that would be relevant. More fundamentally though, just recognising that the argument ‘Pressure in space is lower than in the atmosphere, the atmosphere doesn’t get sucked into space, therefore the earth is flat’ has all kinds of problems with it. As does the idea that the flat earth belief comes from the bible. The basic wrongness of these ideas makes discussion a bit pointless for me as there is clearly something else other than facts that leads anyone to believe everything that goes along with the whole flat earth thing, and I don’t know what it is.

JackRT said:

I don't believe I could pick up a colonel or even a lieutenant colonel but maybe a kernel.

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lol... thanks... not thinking.

A_Thinker said:

Space probes have escaped Earth's velocity ... and thus, have visited Mars, flown by Jupiter, Saturn, etc.

Nothing natural (other than very small molcules) achieves escape velocity from Earth.

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Again, if the air was thicker and had enough O2, there is no reason that a bird could not just fly out and away.

Paul of Eugene OR said:

I'm a city boy and have no contact with fertile chicken eggs. But I could try it with a deck of cards . . . left to right for red ones, up and down for black ones . . . does the pendulum know very accurately? Would that be a fair test?

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I have no reason to believe that it will have any ability to check playing cards. I have no idea why you would suggest it..
What I am talking about is biological of some sort. Works on eggs... according to my mother... who is a a dear Christian woman and has no reason to lie and only mentioned it when we were all doing it on our pregnant or previously pregnant wives, at the time.

And, definitely works on pregnant and previously pregnant women.

So... have at er... with the playing cards but don't condemn my posts because this doesn't work on inanimate pieces of cardboard.

A_Thinker said:

WHERE does scripture state that Earth is FLAT ?

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Throught like all the books of OT plus majority Genesis 1

Job 37:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Oldmantook said:

Certainly my knowledge of physics is lacking as I do not presume to be an expert in matters of science. However, I graduated with honors from seminary so I would say that my knowledge and understanding of Scripture is not lacking though of course I don't understand everything. You neglected to mention that besides being a flat circle enclosed in the firmament, the Bible describes the earth as fixed and immovable above which the sun/moon which are also in the firmament, make their circuits. Are you able to offer any scriptures that indicate otherwise?

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Insofar as it does describe the universe in any definite terms, the creation narrative was written from the perspective of the cosmogony of the time, not a 21st C perspective. It’s framed in terms and with an intent that provided the explanation most relevant and necessary to its original hearers to form an understanding of God and themselves in relation to God. If it was written from a 21st C perspective it would be a lot longer and wouldn’t have made sense to the first Israelites, if it happened somehow to have been written from a perspective an equal amount of time into the future as from the first writing to now, it wouldn’t make any sense to us either. Trying to make it fit whatever is known about the universe at any point in time is misunderstanding the point of the narrative, I think.

A_Thinker said:

Your vacuum cleaner ... works because it creates a vacuum in an area with high air density. As air molecules rush to fill the vacuum, it carries other heavier objects of mass with them.

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Space, as it is presented, is an almost perfect vacuum. The difference in pressure created by my vacuum is not even close to the difference in pressure between our atmosphere and a perfect vacuum.....

Point is... you have a perfect vacuum shoulder to shoulder with our atmosphere..... in high atmosphere where gravity is diminished.... and it doesn't suck it all away.

You can spin it all you want... but, even when my vacuum is full and doesn't have much draw... it will pick up a feather.

I persoanlly have a problem with the fact that our atmosphere is not sucked away. It doesn't make sense.

I know, the egg heads could draw some elaborate equations on a chalk board, that only them and four others would understand, and conclude from the cryptic scribbles that it "must work". But, I'm not buying any of it.

Tom Farebrother said:

No, just pointing out some basic facts. If you really want to understand how it all works I think you’d need to embark on a program of study. Actually there are a lot of colleges offering free courses online including a lot that would be relevant. More fundamentally though, just recognising that the argument ‘Pressure in space is lower than in the atmosphere, the atmosphere doesn’t get sucked into space, therefore the earth is flat’ has all kinds of problems with it. As does the idea that the flat earth belief comes from the bible. The basic wrongness of these ideas makes discussion a bit pointless for me as there is clearly something else other than facts that leads anyone to believe everything that goes along with the whole flat earth thing, and I don’t know what it is.

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I don't think that I made any connection to the FE with this... I am just saying that their whole idea of gravity competing with the perfect vacuum of space.... is ludicrous.

It does not mean the earth is flat.... It is saying that they don't know and are grasping.

Tom Farebrother said:

Insofar as it does describe the universe in any definite terms, the creation narrative was written from the perspective of the cosmogony of the time, not a 21st C perspective.

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Nice try, but the entire bible was written by God... as inspired men wrote it. So, it was inspired by an all knowing God.....it is living.. which means, as time moves on... it keeps up.

It is not an archaic book of obsolete words..

Unless, of course, you believe it was written by men of ancient times that were oblivious to things...and not our creator.

Tom Farebrother said:

It’s framed in terms and with an intent that provided the explanation most relevant and necessary to its original hearers to form an understanding of God and themselves in relation to God. If it was written from a 21st C perspective it would be a lot longer and wouldn’t have made sense to the first Israelites, if it happened somehow to have been written from a perspective an equal amount of time into the future as from the first writing to now, it wouldn’t make any sense to us either. Trying to make it fit whatever is known about the universe at any point in time is misunderstanding the point of the narrative, I think.

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Again, it was written to all human kind and is relevant throughout the ages.

You state that you are a Christian.. so... I am surprised that you take this view. This is a view that I see, quite often, with agnostic and atheistic people. Not those who understand that God is from the alpha to omega and is all knowing... and that the Bible is His word.

JacksBratt said:

Nice try, but the entire bible was written by God... as inspired men wrote it. So, it was inspired by an all knowing God.....it is living.. which means, as time moves on... it keeps up.

It is not an archaic book of obsolete words..

Unless, of course, you believe it was written by men of ancient times that were oblivious to things...and not our creator.



Again, it was written to all human kind and is relevant throughout the ages.

You state that you are a Christian.. so... I am surprised that you take this view. This is a view that I see, quite often, with agnostic and atheistic people. Not those who understand that God is from the alpha to omega and is all knowing... and that the Bible is His word.

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What do you mean when you say that the Bible was written by God?

JacksBratt said:

I don't think that I made any connection to the FE with this... I am just saying that their whole idea of gravity competing with the perfect vacuum of space.... is ludicrous.

It does not mean the earth is flat.... It is saying that they don't know and are grasping.

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Maybe I got different posts mixed up, apologies, I was thinking that the ideas you put forward go hand in hand with the FE belief.

Apart from that, this is some of the thinking I was getting at in my other post, that I don’t understand- I mean who do you think ‘they’ are, and what are they ‘grasping’ at? Based on what advanced knowledge or understanding do you think that gravity as a force balancing the gases that make up the atmosphere venting into space is ludicrous? What gives you the idea that, in general, scientists working in relevant areas are doing something other than developing testable ideas about how things work?

I don’t work in a scientific field, and I didn’t study physical sciences in higher education, but I can’t see any reason to ditch working scientific theories in favour of a lot of mumbo jumbo. Gravity for example is working on you, me, and everyone else on the earth right now and continuously. That it can’t yet be fully and comprehensively explained doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.