A question for flat earth people

[A_Thinker]

Hmmmm, really? I mean seriously, a butterfly... a bird...a house fly... a bumble bee...even a grass hopper... can create enough "escape velocity" when they are right here on the surface with full gravitational forces....

That's not ESCAPE velocity. ESCAPE velocity is where you are able to travel beyond the distance required for the force of GRAVITY not to pull you back down. Butterflies, birds, flies, bumble-bees, and/or grasshoppers don't ESCAPE from Earth.

How, then, does a He2 molecule.. that just floated up there, against the pull of gravity.... get held there at the far reaches of our atmosphere... by that weaker gravity... in competition to the very high pressure difference of space, a vacuum, and our atmosphere?

I believe that the point is that Helium molecules (which are lighter than any other molecules other than Hydrogen molecules) can and do escape from the Earth's atmosphere, because of the lessened effect of gravity upon these molecules (due to their small mass).

Heavier molecules (for instance oxygen, nitrogen, etc.) are too heavy to drift out of Earth's gravitational field. Just as you are too heavy to drift out of Earth's gravitational field.

Also note that the atmosphere thins as you (or a helium atom) gain altitude. Thus, a low-mass molecule can traverse Earth's atmosphere to reach the very thin upper reaches where the atmosphere finally gives way to the vacuum of space.

 

[JacksBratt]

Certainly my knowledge of physics is lacking as I do not presume to be an expert in matters of science. However, I graduated with honors from seminary so I would say that my knowledge and understanding of Scripture is not lacking though of course I don't understand everything. You neglected to mention that besides being a flat circle enclosed in the firmament, the Bible describes the earth as fixed and immovable above which the sun/moon which are also in the firmament, make their circuits. Are you able to offer any scriptures that indicate otherwise?

Oldmantook, I am not a flat earther but I have found that the questions that they have for the so called "globetards" are tougher than the questions that the "globetards", like myself, have for the FE'ers.

My biggest conflict, however, is not with either the FE'ers or Globetards... it is with myself over the simple fact that if I am honest... the Bible, which I hold to be solid truth and word of God... describes a still flat earth with the sun, moon and stars moving above it.

I cannot find one verse or text that even hints that earth is a sphere (circle and round yes but not a sphere), spinning, orbiting or moving at all.

The scripture is overwhelmingly, from Genesis to Revelations... a Flat earth book.

 

[A_Thinker]

That doesn't give you the excuse to say we need fire in order to have breakfast.

I didn't say that we need fire in order to have breakfast.

I said that we can choose to USE fire to have breakfast, ... whether we understand the mechanism of fire ... or not.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

That doesn't give you the excuse to say we need fire in order to have breakfast.

Here's a force that I bet you don't know anything about.. it's source... it's purpose... what it causes.. what it impedes from happening..

Take a gold ring...
Get a hair from someone with long hair.
Feed the hair through the ring.
Grab each end of the hair with the ring suspended in the middle.
Now, bring the ends of the hair together while the ring is suspended below, in a loop.
Get a female (this may also work with males IDK) to lay on her back.
Hold the suspended ring about an inch above the belly of the women. This works very well if they are a pregnant woman too.
Hold you hand a still as you possibly can.
Watch as the ring begins to either pendulum back and forth, on it's own, or move in an ever increasingly bigger circle....Keep watch as it increases in speed and diameter or amplitude, if it's like a pendulum.

What is this force? How do we measure it? What causes it?

How come it can be used to determine the sex of the unborn children that the mother will have?

This, by the way, was used to "sex" eggs on my mothers farm when she was a girl. The ones deemed to be roosters... were breakfast.. the ones deemed to be hens... were either layers... or meat birds....

The accuracy is uncanny.

No need to mess with the gold and the hair. Just get ordinary string, find an ordinary pair of scissors, tie the string to the handles of the scissors, hold the scissors by hand over your desk. Notice how the scissors will start to swing a bit. You can hold your hands steady, not consciously move them, and just imagine them going left and right . . . they will start to swing left and right. Imagine them swinging forward and backward . . . they will start to swing forward and backward, all while you are trying to hold them still. Your unconscious mind in action! How valuable this is for getting answers to questions I leave for you to investigate. Could up and down be yes, left and right be no? And what about diagonal swinging? Whatever comes out clearly came from your own subconscious.

 

[A_Thinker]

Here's a force that I bet you don't know anything about.. it's source... it's purpose... what it causes.. what it impedes from happening..

Take a gold ring...
Get a hair from someone with long hair.
Feed the hair through the ring.
Grab each end of the hair with the ring suspended in the middle.
Now, bring the ends of the hair together while the ring is suspended below, in a loop.
Get a female (this may also work with males IDK) to lay on her back.
Hold the suspended ring about an inch above the belly of the women. This works very well if they are a pregnant woman too.
Hold you hand a still as you possibly can.
Watch as the ring begins to either pendulum back and forth, on it's own, or move in an ever increasingly bigger circle....Keep watch as it increases in speed and diameter or amplitude, if it's like a pendulum.

What is this force? How do we measure it? What causes it?

How come it can be used to determine the sex of the unborn children that the mother will have?

This, by the way, was used to "sex" eggs on my mothers farm when she was a girl. The ones deemed to be roosters... were breakfast.. the ones deemed to be hens... were either layers... or meat birds....

The accuracy is uncanny.

That is an interesting observation.

I would never question the validity of the observations of those who are VERY FAMILIAR with the subject about which they are speaking ...

 

[JacksBratt]

That's not ESCAPE velocity. ESCAPE velocity is where you are able to travel beyond the distance required for the force of GRAVITY not to pull you back down.

I have seen many birds and other things that fly... and they are way beyond the grasp of gravity and it's ability to pull them back down....Some soar for hours... effortlessly. Gravity ain't pulling them down. They can gain altitude at will.. right from feet from the ground.

If the air did not get too thin... and have too little O2.. they could quite simply fly to the moon...

I believe that the point is that Helium molecules (which are lighter than any other molecules other than Hydrogen molecules) can and do escape from the Earth's atmosphere, because of the lessened effect of gravity upon these molecules (due to their small mass).

IF this were even remotely true, we would have, long ago, lost all our He2 and H2.

Heavier molecules (for instance oxygen, nitrogen, etc.) are too heavy to drift out of Earth's gravitational field. Just as you are too heavy to drift out of Earth's gravitational field.

Interesting. But my vacuum cleaner.. that is not even close to creating a perfect vacuum... sucks them up pretty well.

Also note that the atmosphere thins as you (or a helium atom) gain altitude. Thus, a low-mass molecule can traverse Earth's atmosphere to reach the very thin upper reaches where the atmosphere finally gives way to the vacuum of space.

So, is 100% of our He2 and H2 up there? If not, according to gravity, why not?

 

[A_Thinker]

I have seen many birds and other things that fly... and they are way beyond the grasp of gravity and it's ability to pull them back down....Some soar for hours... effortlessly. Gravity ain't pulling them down. They can gain altitude at will.. right from feet from the ground.

If the air did not get too thin... and have too little O2.. they could quite simply fly to the moon...

They always come back down to Earth. Nothing natural (i.e. of the Earth) flies forever. Gravity always eventually wins ...

 

[JacksBratt]

No need to mess with the gold and the hair. Just get ordinary string, find an ordinary pair of scissors, tie the string to the handles of the scissors, hold the scissors by hand over your desk. Notice how the scissors will start to swing a bit. You can hold your hands steady, not consciously move them, and just imagine them going left and right . . . they will start to swing left and right. Imagine them swinging forward and backward . . . they will start to swing forward and backward, all while you are trying to hold them still. Your unconscious mind in action! How valuable this is for getting answers to questions I leave for you to investigate. Could up and down be yes, left and right be no? And what about diagonal swinging? Whatever comes out clearly came from your own subconscious.

Paul, my old pal... this is not a subconscious event....
If you had read my whole post you would note that it is very accurate in predicting the sex of chickens and roosters before they are hatched.
So, I highly doubt that it is imagination. Unless, of course, my mother and her family.. imagined that these birds would all be hens.. and voila.. hens.....(sorry they weren't Italian, I just said "voila" as a figure of speech... capisce?)

 

[JacksBratt]

They always come back down to Earth. Nothing natural (i.e. of the Earth) flies forever. Gravity always eventually wins ...

I know... even NASA rockets.... glad you pointed that out...
But, as long as your rocket maintains this elusive "escape velocity" it can keep going up...

Meanwhile, a tiny sparrow has been doing it for millennia...

"escape velocity" scientism....

 

[JackRT]

Mine does... well, not sometimes and I have to bend over to pick up the un popped pop corn colonel. But......it sure sucks... er.. pulls.

I don't believe I could pick up a colonel or even a lieutenant colonel but maybe a kernel.

 

[A_Thinker]

I know... even NASA rockets.... glad you pointed that out...
But, as long as your rocket maintains this elusive "escape velocity" it can keep going up...

Space probes have escaped Earth's velocity ... and thus, have visited Mars, flown by Jupiter, Saturn, etc.

Nothing natural (other than very small molcules) achieves escape velocity from Earth.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Paul, my old pal... this is not a subconscious event....
If you had read my whole post you would note that it is very accurate in predicting the sex of chickens and roosters before they are hatched.
So, I highly doubt that it is imagination. Unless, of course, my mother and her family.. imagined that these birds would all be hens.. and voila.. hens.....(sorry they weren't Italian, I just said "voila" as a figure of speech... capisce?)

Its clearly the subconscious that directs the direction of the swinging when you form the idea in your mind yourself and that's the way the pendulum starts to swing. Even if you believe some kind of spooky relationship between the direction of the swinging and the otherwise unknown answer to your inquiry, that spooky relationship has to be mediated through your subconscious mind, since it is clearly the minute tremor of the hand that causes the pendulum to swing as it does. It would be an interesting test to conduct a series of trials and see if one can indeed get reliable results. I wouldn't trust mere memory on this.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Space probes have escaped Earth's velocity ... and thus, have visited Mars, flown by Jupiter, Saturn, etc.

Nothing natural (other than very small molcules) achieves escape velocity from Earth.

Extreme volcanic events could propel a small rock to escape velocity, but who would ever notice that, in the context? All the observers would be distracted by the massive event itself.

 

[JacksBratt]

That is an interesting observation.

I would never question the validity of the observations of those who are VERY FAMILIAR with the subject about which they are speaking ...

That's why I gave the insturctions... so you don't have to question it.. Just try it out... test it...

If you have a woman.. who has had several children... it will always do the same pattern when repeated.. over and over again... try it.

For instance.. a family that is boy boy boy boy girl...

will either start be circle, circle, circle, circle, pendulum,repeat.
or.. pendulum, pendulum, pendulum, pendulum, circle, repeat.

NOTE: if they had a miscarriage... or an abortion.. it will be included in the line of children. so.. be careful as some may not know that they have had a miscarriage, lost a child or have told anyone about an abortion..

My wife had three children. We lost our second child to miscarriage. Boy, Boy, Girl. Including the miscarriage this was Boy, Girl, Boy, Girl.

We could not figure out why our pattern was Circle (C), Pendulum (P), Circle (C), Pendulum (P).. repeat.

Then my mothers great aunt said that it will be affected by every conception.

My brothers wife had three boys... continuous circles.. no pendulums.

My sister in law had two boys and then a girl.. she is C, C, P, C, C, P, C,C,P repeating.

 

[JacksBratt]

Its clearly the subconscious that directs the direction of the swinging when you form the idea in your mind yourself and that's the way the pendulum starts to swing. Even if you believe some kind of spooky relationship between the direction of the swinging and the otherwise unknown answer to your inquiry, that spooky relationship has to be mediated through your subconscious mind, since it is clearly the minute tremor of the hand that causes the pendulum to swing as it does. It would be an interesting test to conduct a series of trials and see if one can indeed get reliable results. I wouldn't trust mere memory on this.

Oh... OK... guess those chickens were all coincidences....

 

[JackRT]

Bible describes the earth as fixed and immovable above which the sun/moon which are also in the firmament, make their circuits. Are you able to offer any scriptures that indicate otherwise?

No, but I do not regard the Bible as either literal or inerrant so that lack of scriptural confirmation is no problem for me. When it comes to questions regarding nature, I prefer evidence.

 

[JacksBratt]

Its clearly the subconscious that directs the direction of the swinging when you form the idea in your mind yourself and that's the way the pendulum starts to swing. Even if you believe some kind of spooky relationship between the direction of the swinging and the otherwise unknown answer to your inquiry, that spooky relationship has to be mediated through your subconscious mind, since it is clearly the minute tremor of the hand that causes the pendulum to swing as it does. It would be an interesting test to conduct a series of trials and see if one can indeed get reliable results. I wouldn't trust mere memory on this.

Go ahead..... I sincerely encourage this sort of thing... Test it...

However... I doubt you will even believe it when you do it for yourself.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Oh... OK... guess those chickens were all coincidences....

I'm just saying we need to do rigorous testing before accepting your hypothesis.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Go ahead..... I sincerely encourage this sort of thing... Test it...

However... I doubt you will even believe it when you do it for yourself.

I'm a city boy and have no contact with fertile chicken eggs. But I could try it with a deck of cards . . . left to right for red ones, up and down for black ones . . . does the pendulum know very accurately? Would that be a fair test?

 

[A_Thinker]

Heavier molecules (for instance oxygen, nitrogen, etc.) are too heavy to drift out of Earth's gravitational field. Just as you are too heavy to drift out of Earth's gravitational field.

Interesting. But my vacuum cleaner.. that is not even close to creating a perfect vacuum... sucks them up pretty well.

Your vacuum cleaner ... works because it creates a vacuum in an area with high air density. As air molecules rush to fill the vacuum, it carries other heavier objects of mass with them.