Israel’s Restoration?

Dave L · Jul 30, 2018

Steven Heiss said:
Here is the Almanac of The Prophets of Israel. It is proof that God told the end from the beginning. And a clear picture of the role of the Lost Tribes in God's plan.

You start with a timeline indexed according to the prescribed timekeeping principles, then add the principle of seasons on top, then add the personification of the seasons.

View attachment 236034

It matters not. Apart from circumcision there are no physical Jews or Israel. Christ abolished circumcision on the cross.

Steven Heiss · Jul 30, 2018

This is the personification. These are your horsemen of the apocalypse.

Dave L · Jul 30, 2018

Steven Heiss said:
This is the personification. These are your horsemen of the apocalypse.View attachment 236035

No circumcision = no physical Jews = no physical Israel or tribes. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross.

Steven Heiss · Jul 30, 2018

This is the persecution of the Jews, by Dan, through Ephraim. These are the descendants of the Kingdom of Israel, in exile and ancetral amnesia, yet they did exactly what He said they would, and precisely when it was supposed to happen.

Steven Heiss · Jul 30, 2018

For those interested in where we are today on the timeline of prophecy, Here are the end times...

Dave L · Jul 30, 2018

Steven Heiss said:
For those interested in where we are today on the timeline of prophecy, Here are the end times...View attachment 236037

This is not biblical in the least. No circumcision = no physical Jews or Israel. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross.

jgr · Jul 30, 2018

Steven Heiss said:
For those interested in where we are today on the timeline of prophecy, Here are the end times...View attachment 236037

You still refer to Israel, Jews, tribes, etc. without describing how to identify any individual's membership therein. You've referred to "collective", but every collective is but a group of individuals. If you cannot identify an individual, you cannot identify the "collective" to which he does or does not belong.

If you consider the terms Israel and Jews to be referring to an ethnic, i.e. genetic classification, then you will be interested to know how today's Jewish community understands its own ethnicity.

In short, it recognizes that it is no longer an ethnically/genetically identifiable subset of the human race, because genetic dispersion over the millennia has introduced the Abrahamic genome, i.e. DNA, into every person on planet earth.

This is both empirically and mathematically confirmable.

If every person on earth possesses some amount of ethnic "Jewishness", it means that ethnicity cannot be a criterion of God's recognition and acceptance.

But from the very beginning, it never has been a criterion. (Genesis 17:12)

You'll notice that most if not all of the following originate in the Jewish community, which is now religiocultural rather than ethnic.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/132800
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/tracing-lost-israelite-tribes-to-africa-1.5283901
https://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/world/africa/nigeria-jews-igbo/index.html
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

The math:
Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Thus, any attempt to "racialize" the glorious gospel of our Lord and Savior is demonstrably unspiritual, unscriptural, and unscientific.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 30, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Dual Covenant Theology is the real "Replacement Theology".

You have replaced the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16, in order to apply the Abrahamic Covenant to those who reject Christ.
This is "Dual Covenant" Theology.
You have replaced the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.
You have replaced the "son" who is the "heir" to the land in Matthew chapter 21, with those who reject Him as the "chief cornerstone".

Who is really teaching "Replacement Theology"?

.

Dual Covenant. I would say this parable in Luke 16 describes dual covenant?
I finally found my study folder on it.
Notice in vs 26 the plural "we" is used, which means it is not only a single man but a group of people associated with him.
Also the 2 different greek word for "crossing over".

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

Luke 16:26
And upon all of these between us[Abraham] and ye[Moses] a great chasm hath been established.
So that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye no may be able,
neither thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276> (5725)

Hebrews 11:29
By Faith they crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry, which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 30, 2018

I have this thread up concerning the restoration of Israel if any are interested...Should make for a rather interesting discussion.....

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...e-kingdom-to-israel-10-kings-reve-17.8075581/
Acts 1:6 restore the kingdom to Israel/10 kings Reve 17?

Biblewriter · Aug 4, 2018

Steven Heiss said:
This nullifies the promises of the Prophets.

To even hint at such an idea borders on blasphemy!

Biblewriter · Aug 4, 2018

While there is some excuse for interpreting the word "Israel" to mean believers of the present day, this is not something that even one scripture explicitly teaches.

But there is not even the slightest excuse, anywhere in the entire Bible, for interpreting the words "Ephraim," "Judah," or any of the names of the ten other tribes to mean "the church." Yet there are explicitly stated promises made to every one of these.

And there is no way to escape the fact that Ezekiel 36 explicitly promises a piece of real estate, "the mountains of Israel," along with "the hills," "the rivers," "the desolate wastes," and "the cities than have been forsaken" that they will again be inhabited by absolutely all of "the house of Israel." The word absolutely is not used, but the absolute nature of the promise was stressed by doubling the Hebrew word "kol" which literally translates as "all."

To deny all this is to deny explicitly stated scripture.

jgr · Aug 4, 2018

Biblewriter said:
While there is some excuse for interpreting the word "Israel" to mean believers of the present day, this is not something that even one scripture explicitly teaches.

But there is not even the slightest excuse, anywhere in the entire Bible, for interpreting the words "Ephraim," "Judah," or any of the names of the ten other tribes to mean "the church." Yet there are explicitly stated promises made to every one of these.

And there is no way to escape the fact that Ezekiel 36 explicitly promises a piece of real estate, "the mountains of Israel," along with "the hills," "the rivers," "the desolate wastes," and "the cities than have been forsaken" that they will again be inhabited by absolutely all of "the house of Israel." The word absolutely is not used, but the absolute nature of the promise was stressed by doubling the Hebrew word "kol" which literally translates as "all."

To deny all this is to deny explicitly stated scripture.

Since they are in the New Will and Testament, the following are explicitly binding over and above all else.

To deny them is to deny that Christ is the perfect and complete fulfillment and Heir of all of God's promises.

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

God has updated His own Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His own Son.

That can never be reversed.

BABerean2 · Aug 4, 2018

Biblewriter said:
While there is some excuse for interpreting the word "Israel" to mean believers of the present day, this is not something that even one scripture explicitly teaches.

But there is not even the slightest excuse, anywhere in the entire Bible, for interpreting the words "Ephraim," "Judah," or any of the names of the ten other tribes to mean "the church." Yet there are explicitly stated promises made to every one of these.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (This is quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

keras · Aug 4, 2018

Biblewriter said:
While there is some excuse for interpreting the word "Israel" to mean believers of the present day, this is not something that even one scripture explicitly teaches.

This is absolutely a false statement.
Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: every faithful Christian person are designated by God to be Israelites. Galatians 6:16 The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, who are the only one Church, only one elect, be they Jew or Gentile by birth.

1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deuteronomy 33:3, Ezra 3:11

Christians, chosen of God: Romans 9:25, Ephesians 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9

2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isaiah 1:2-4, Isaiah 63:8, Hosea 11:1

Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Romans 8:14-16, Galatians 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1

3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalms 78:52, Isaiah 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Ezekiel 34:12

Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Hebrews 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25

4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chronicles 29:14-18

Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 10:20-21, I Timothy 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9

5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deuteronomy 27:9

Christians are the priests of God: Isaiah 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Revelation 5:10

6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jeremiah 2:2, Ezekiel 16:32, Hosea 1:2

Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32

7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7

Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24

8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18

Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Philippians 3:3, Col. 2:11

9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham: 2 Chronicles 20:7, Psalms 105:5-6, Isaiah 41:8

Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Romans 4:13-18, Gal. 3:7& 29, John 4:23

10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deut. 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalms 105:7-10

The New Covenant is with Christians: 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Ezekiel 34:25

Biblewriter · Aug 5, 2018

keras said:
This is absolutely a false statement.
Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: every faithful Christian person are designated by God to be Israelites. Galatians 6:16 The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, who are the only one Church, only one elect, be they Jew or Gentile by birth.

1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deuteronomy 33:3, Ezra 3:11

Christians, chosen of God: Romans 9:25, Ephesians 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9

2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isaiah 1:2-4, Isaiah 63:8, Hosea 11:1

Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Romans 8:14-16, Galatians 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1

3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalms 78:52, Isaiah 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Ezekiel 34:12

Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Hebrews 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25

4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chronicles 29:14-18

Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 10:20-21, I Timothy 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9

5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deuteronomy 27:9

Christians are the priests of God: Isaiah 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Revelation 5:10

6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jeremiah 2:2, Ezekiel 16:32, Hosea 1:2

Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32

7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7

Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24

8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18

Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Philippians 3:3, Col. 2:11

9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham: 2 Chronicles 20:7, Psalms 105:5-6, Isaiah 41:8

Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Romans 4:13-18, Gal. 3:7& 29, John 4:23

10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deut. 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalms 105:7-10

The New Covenant is with Christians: 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Ezekiel 34:25

I agreed that there are some scriptures that seem to teach that "the church" is "Israel." But not even one of the scriptures you have quoted explicitly says this, exactly as I said.

But there is still no way around the fact that not even one scripture anywhere even hints at the idea that the sub nations of "Ephraim" and "Judah," or any of the names of the ten tribes of Israel mean "the church." Yet the scriptures contain explicitly stated promises to each of these, as well as to the descendants of several specific individuals.

keras · Aug 5, 2018

Biblewriter said:
I agreed that there are some scriptures that seem to teach that "the church" is "Israel." But not even one of the scriptures you have quoted explicitly says this, exactly as I said.

But there is still no way around the fact that not even one scripture anywhere even hints at the idea that the sub nations of "Ephraim" and "Judah," or any of the names of the ten tribes of Israel mean "the church." Yet the scriptures contain explicitly stated promises to each of these, as well as to the descendants of several specific individuals.

No doubt, God does have a mystery regarding the final conferment of His Promises.
There is a valid case made for the British Empire being the modern representative of Ephraim. Judah is of course; the Jewish State of Israel.

All of the 12 tribes have destinies that seem, in the main, to have been fulfilled.
But in todays world, these designations count for nothing, as Bible teaching plainly states that ethnicity counts for nothing.

The elect are every individual chosen by God and who have been born again into the salvation offered by Jesus.
God's holy people, all faithful Christians, are from every tribe, race, nation and language. Rev 5:9-10, Rev 7:9, Isaiah 66:18b

But remember that Jacob was given the name of Israel by God, as he was an overcomer. That is what the word Israel literally means: an Overcomer for God. So we Christians are the Israelites of God, the victorious ones over the wiles of Satan and the temptations of this world. Colossians 1:11-12

Who is it that will be gathered at Jesus' Return? God's holy people, those who have endured until the end, Rev 13:9-10.
The 'Victorious' ones, as described in the:
Ephesus Church - Revelation 2:7

The Smyrna Church - Rev 2:10-11

The Pergamum Church - Rev 2:17

The Thyatira Church - Rev 2:26

The Sardis Church - Rev 3:5

The Philadelphia Church - Rev 3:12

The Laodicea Church - Rev 3:21 To anyone who is Victorious, I will grant a place beside Me on My Throne, as I Myself was Victorious and sat down with My Father on His Throne. You have ears; so hear what the Spirit says to all the Churches!

Biblewriter · Aug 6, 2018

keras said:
There is a valid case made for the British Empire being the modern representative of Ephraim.

When I studied the "evidence" for this theory, I concluded that the scholarship involved would do credit to any grade school student. The reasoning used was superficial at best. And the sources of information cited in the articles I read, did not include even one ancient document.

The problem with this theory is that it is well known that the British are descended from the Celts. And it is also well known that the ancestors of the Celts were the Cimmerians. Numerous ancient sources which I specifically quoted in my book, "Keys to Bible Prophecy," identify this ethnic group as Biblical Gomer, not as Israel. And two of these ancient sources were from the official records of the Assyrian empire. And this is not just my conclusion, but the accepted conclusion of every historian whose works on this subject I have examined.

This proves that Cimmeria already existed when Assyria was in power, that is, before Assyria carried away the ten northern tribes of Israel. So the Cimmerians cannot even possibly be descended from Ephraim. And thus the British cannot even possibly be descended from Ephraim.

BABerean2 · Aug 6, 2018

Biblewriter said:
I agreed that there are some scriptures that seem to teach that "the church" is "Israel." But not even one of the scriptures you have quoted explicitly says this, exactly as I said.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Who was Peter addressing above on the Day of Pentecost?

Do we find the promise of the New Covenant fulfilled in the passage below?

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (This is quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

Who would the twelve tribes be in the passage above?

.

usexpat97 · Aug 6, 2018

Are there any prophecies concerning Israel's restoration that were made after 415BC?

I see no point contesting whether the Church is Israel, when Israel WAS restored.

keras · Aug 6, 2018

usexpat97 said:
Are there any prophecies concerning Israel's restoration that were made after 415BC?

I see no point contesting whether the Church is Israel, when Israel WAS restored.

You just need to read carefully the great chapter of Ezekiel 37, to know that the House of Israel has not yet rejoined with the House of Judah.
Plainly, the Jews are not as numerous as the sands of the sea and they continue in their rejection of Jesus. It is the born again Christians, who are mainly the Western peoples, who now comprise the true Israelites. Galatians 6:16

Israel’s Restoration?

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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