(Jews) Why don't Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah?

Lost4words said:

Jesus is God. He can appear as He so chooses.

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Bs"d

Your God is JC. My God is Y-H-W-H.

Who is the God of Israel? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Christianity is very confused about this. A confusion also caused by bad Bible translations. In almost all translations the four lettered name of God, Y-H-W-H, which appears in the Hebrew Bible almost 7000 times, is not mentioned, but replaced by "the LORD".

But here are some Biblical texts which point out WHO is the God of Israel. In these verses the letters of the name of God are written, like in the original Hebrew.


Exodus 29:46 “They will know that I am Y-H-W-H their God, who brought them out of Egypt so that I might dwell among them. I am Y-H-W-H their God.”

Numbers 15:41 “I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of Egypt to be your God. I am Y-H-W-H your God.”

Deuteronomy 10:20-21 “Fear Y-H-W-H your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name. He is your praise; he is your God, who performed for you those great and awesome wonders you saw with your own eyes.”

Joshua 24:18 “We too will serve Y-H-W-H , because he is our God.”

II Samuel 22:32 “For who is God besides Y-H-W-H ?”

I Chronicles 16:14 “He is Y-H-W-H our God; his judgments are in all the earth”

II Chronicles 13:10 “As for us, Y-H-W-H is our God, and we have not forsaken him”

Psalm 31:14 “But I trust in you, O Y-H-W-H; I say, "You are my God.”

Psalm 89:6 “For who in the skies above can compare with Y-H-W-H? Who is like Y-H-W-H among the heavenly beings?”

Psalm 91:2 “I will say of Y-H-W-H , "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”

Psalm 100:3 “Know that Y-H-W-H is God. It is he who made us.”

Psalm 105:7 “He is Y-H-W-H our God; his judgments are in all the earth;”

Psalm 118:27 “Y-H-W-H is God, and he has made his light shine upon us.”

Psalm 140:6 “O Y-H-W-H, I say to you, "You are my God”

Isaiah 25:1 “O Y-H-W-H, you are my God.”

Isaiah 41:13 “For I am Y-H-W-H , your God;”

Isaiah 43:3 “For I am Y-H-W-H , your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;”

Isaiah 51:15 “For I am Y-H-W-H your God, who churns up the sea so that its waves roar- Y-H-W-H Almighty is his name”

Jeremiah 3:22-23 “Yes, we will come to you, for you are Y-H-W-H our God”

Jeremiah 10:10 “But Y-H-W-H is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King.;”

Jeremiah 31:18 “Restore me, and I will return, because you are Y-H-W-H my God.”

Habakkuk 1:12 “O Y-H-W-H, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die.”

Jesus said, 'I am'......

Obviously you push aside the NT.

Lost4words said:

Jesus said, 'I am'......

Obviously you push aside the NT.

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Bs"d

Obviously you push aside the Hebrew Bible.

And the Tanach was there long before the NT.

"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

Eliyahu52 said:

Bs"d

Obviously you push aside the Hebrew Bible.

And the Tanach was there long before the NT.

"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

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Jesus brought with Him a new Covenant.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

Lost4words said:

Jesus brought with Him a new Covenant.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

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I await the full completion of the covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

The very fact that you are attempting to convince me that Jesus is the Lord means that the last part cannot, at this point in time, be complete. I certainly fall somewhere between the least and the greatest.

LoAmmi said:

I await the full completion of the covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

The very fact that you are attempting to convince me that Jesus is the Lord means that the last part cannot, at this point in time, be complete. I certainly fall somewhere between the least and the greatest.

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Many Jews ignored Jesus. There are many that dont. Jesus came and made a new Covenant. You dont believe in the NT. We do. The OT and NT fit together perfectly.

Lost4words said:

Many Jews ignored Jesus. There are many that dont. Jesus came and made a new Covenant. You dont believe in the NT. We do. The OT and NT fit together perfectly.

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This doesn't address the fact that Jeremiah's prophecy remains unfulfilled.

drstevej said:

LoAmmi, if I could prove to your satisfaction that Jesus is who the gospels say He is, would you put your faith in Him as your Savior and serve Him as your Lord?

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Bs"d

No. Two reasons: One; you cannot bring any proof he was the messiah, and Two: I have and serve another Lord:

"J-e-h-o-v-a-h the Lord [is] my strength"
Habakkuk 3:19 Young's Literal Translation

"But you, O Y-H-W-H my Lord"
Psalm 109:21

"O J-e-h-o-v-a-h my Lord, strength of my salvation"
Psalm 140:7, Young's Literal Translation

"But to Thee, O J-e-h-o-v-a-h, my Lord, [are] mine eyes, In Thee I have trusted, Make not bare my soul."
Psalm 141:7, Young's Literal Translation

"And Abram saith, `Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h what dost Thou give to me"
Gen 15:2 Young's Literal Translation

"and he saith, `Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h, whereby do I know that I possess it?'"
Gen 15:8 Young's Literal Translation

"Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h, Thou -- Thou hast begun to shew Thy servant Thy greatness, and Thy strong hand;"
Deut 3:28 Young's Literal Translation

"And Samson calleth unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, and saith, `Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h, remember me, I pray Thee, and strengthen me,"
Judges 16:28 Young's Literal Translation

"I come in the might of the Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h, I mention Thy righteousness -- Thine only."
Psalm 71:16 Young's Literal Translation

Neostarwcc said:

So you believe that the Messiah will accomplish ALL of the prophecies? Because, Jesus fulfilled many of the prophecies of the coming Messiah. The rest of the prophecies will be fulfilled at his second coming.

For example I'll post a few of the main ones he fulfilled

Isaiah 7:14

"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

(Jesus was born from the Virgin Mary)

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Bs"d

The prophecy of Isaiah 7:

1: In the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, son of Uzzi'ah, king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remali'ah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it. 2: When the house of David was told, "Syria is in league with E'phraim," his heart and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind. 3: And the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go forth to meet Ahaz, you and She'ar-jash'ub your son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller's Field, 4: and say to him, `Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint because of these two smoldering stumps of firebrands, at the fierce anger of Rezin and Syria and the son of Remali'ah. 5: Because Syria, with E'phraim and the son of Remali'ah, has devised evil against you, saying, 6: "Let us go up against Judah and terrify it, and let us conquer it for ourselves, and set up the son of Ta'be-el as king in the midst of it," 7: thus says the Lord GOD: It shall not stand, and it shall not come to pass.
8: For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin. (Within sixty-five years E'phraim will be broken to pieces so that it will no longer be a people.) 9: And the head of E'phraim is Sama'ria, and the head of Sama'ria is the son of Remali'ah. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established.'" 10: Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz,
11: "Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven." 12: But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test." 13: And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

We see here in Isaiah 7, that king Achaz, the king of Judah, is afraid of two neighboring kings.
It is important to know that after the death of king Solomo the kingdom of Israel split up into two parts; into the kingdom of Judah, and the kingdom of Israel.
The kingdom om Judah was made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and a part of the Levites. The kingdom of Israel was made up of the other ten tribes.
Achaz was king over Judah, and in this prophecy the king of Israel is Pekah, the son of Remaliah.
And Pekah had made a covenant with the king of Syria, called Resin, to attack together the kingdom of Judah.
This news caused king Achaz considerable stress, because he had a dark suspicion that things could very well turn out not so very rosy for him.
Therefore God sent Isaiah to Achaz, in order to tell him that things would work out just fine for him. God tells Achaz that he will give him a sign. Here is the sign: "14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman is pregnant and is giving birth to a son, and she called his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

God says that before the child of the young woman who is pregnant will grow up, the land of the two kings, Resin of Syria, and Pekah of Israel, will be deserted, that is devoid of people. Those two nations will be led into exile.
So this is a sign for king Achaz, who lived about 700 years before JC.

And the Bible tells us that this prophecy came true: "27: In the fifty-second year of Azari'ah king of Judah Pekah the son of Remali'ah began to reign over Israel in Sama'ria, and reigned twenty years. 28: And he did what was evil in the sight of the LORD; he did not depart from the sins of Jerobo'am the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin. 29: In the days of Pekah king of Israel Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria came and captured I'jon, A'bel-beth-ma'acah, Jan-o'ah, Kedesh, Hazor, Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naph'tali; and he carried the people captive to Assyria. 30: Then Hoshe'a the son of Elah made a conspiracy against Pekah the son of Remali'ah, and struck him down, and slew him, and reigned in his stead, in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzzi'ah."
II Kings 15.

We see here that the population of Israel indeed went into exile, and that the land of king Pekah was deserted.

And here is what happened to Resin, the king of Syria:
"6: At that time the king of Edom recovered Elath for Edom, and drove the men of Judah from Elath; and the E'domites came to Elath, where they dwell to this day. 7: So Ahaz sent messengers to Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria, saying, "I am your servant and your son. Come up, and rescue me from the hand of the king of Syria and from the hand of the king of Israel, who are attacking me." 8: Ahaz also took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the LORD and in the treasures of the king's house, and sent a present to the king of Assyria. 9: And the king of Assyria hearkened to him; the king of Assyria marched up against Damascus, and took it, carrying its people captive to Kir, and he killed Rezin."
II Kings 16.

So here we see that also the inhabitants of the land of King Resin went into exile, and also his land was deserted, in the days of Achaz.

So God gave a sign to Achaz.

In the days of Achaz.

About 700 years before JC.

So this prophecy has no bearing what so ever on the messiah, and NOWHERE in this prophecy is spoken about a virgin.

These are only misconceptions of the NT.

However, the NT brings this prophecy to Achaz as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 1 "21: she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 22: All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel".

So what the NT does here, is take a text which does not speak about the messiah, rip it out of context, mistranslates it, (is says "young woman", and not "virgin") and then present it to us as a messianic prophecy.

So one of the foundations of the Christian religion, the virgin birth, is based upon a mistranslated text which is ripped out of context and does NOT speak about the messiah.

Eliyahu52 said:

Bs"d

The prophecy of Isaiah 7:

1: In the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, son of Uzzi'ah, king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remali'ah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it. 2: When the house of David was told, "Syria is in league with E'phraim," his heart and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind. 3: And the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go forth to meet Ahaz, you and She'ar-jash'ub your son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller's Field, 4: and say to him, `Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint because of these two smoldering stumps of firebrands, at the fierce anger of Rezin and Syria and the son of Remali'ah. 5: Because Syria, with E'phraim and the son of Remali'ah, has devised evil against you, saying, 6: "Let us go up against Judah and terrify it, and let us conquer it for ourselves, and set up the son of Ta'be-el as king in the midst of it," 7: thus says the Lord GOD: It shall not stand, and it shall not come to pass.
8: For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin. (Within sixty-five years E'phraim will be broken to pieces so that it will no longer be a people.) 9: And the head of E'phraim is Sama'ria, and the head of Sama'ria is the son of Remali'ah. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established.'" 10: Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz,
11: "Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven." 12: But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test." 13: And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

We see here in Isaiah 7, that king Achaz, the king of Judah, is afraid of two neighboring kings.
It is important to know that after the death of king Solomo the kingdom of Israel split up into two parts; into the kingdom of Judah, and the kingdom of Israel.
The kingdom om Judah was made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and a part of the Levites. The kingdom of Israel was made up of the other ten tribes.
Achaz was king over Judah, and in this prophecy the king of Israel is Pekah, the son of Remaliah.
And Pekah had made a covenant with the king of Syria, called Resin, to attack together the kingdom of Judah.
This news caused king Achaz considerable stress, because he had a dark suspicion that things could very well turn out not so very rosy for him.
Therefore God sent Isaiah to Achaz, in order to tell him that things would work out just fine for him. God tells Achaz that he will give him a sign. Here is the sign: "14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman is pregnant and is giving birth to a son, and she called his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

God says that before the child of the young woman who is pregnant will grow up, the land of the two kings, Resin of Syria, and Pekah of Israel, will be deserted, that is devoid of people. Those two nations will be led into exile.
So this is a sign for king Achaz, who lived about 700 years before JC.

And the Bible tells us that this prophecy came true: "27: In the fifty-second year of Azari'ah king of Judah Pekah the son of Remali'ah began to reign over Israel in Sama'ria, and reigned twenty years. 28: And he did what was evil in the sight of the LORD; he did not depart from the sins of Jerobo'am the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin. 29: In the days of Pekah king of Israel Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria came and captured I'jon, A'bel-beth-ma'acah, Jan-o'ah, Kedesh, Hazor, Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naph'tali; and he carried the people captive to Assyria. 30: Then Hoshe'a the son of Elah made a conspiracy against Pekah the son of Remali'ah, and struck him down, and slew him, and reigned in his stead, in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzzi'ah."
II Kings 15.

We see here that the population of Israel indeed went into exile, and that the land of king Pekah was deserted.

And here is what happened to Resin, the king of Syria:
"6: At that time the king of Edom recovered Elath for Edom, and drove the men of Judah from Elath; and the E'domites came to Elath, where they dwell to this day. 7: So Ahaz sent messengers to Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria, saying, "I am your servant and your son. Come up, and rescue me from the hand of the king of Syria and from the hand of the king of Israel, who are attacking me." 8: Ahaz also took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the LORD and in the treasures of the king's house, and sent a present to the king of Assyria. 9: And the king of Assyria hearkened to him; the king of Assyria marched up against Damascus, and took it, carrying its people captive to Kir, and he killed Rezin."
II Kings 16.

So here we see that also the inhabitants of the land of King Resin went into exile, and also his land was deserted, in the days of Achaz.

So God gave a sign to Achaz.

In the days of Achaz.

About 700 years before JC.

So this prophecy has no bearing what so ever on the messiah, and NOWHERE in this prophecy is spoken about a virgin.

These are only misconceptions of the NT.

However, the NT brings this prophecy to Achaz as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 1 "21: she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 22: All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel".

So what the NT does here, is take a text which does not speak about the messiah, rip it out of context, mistranslates it, (is says "young woman", and not "virgin") and then present it to us as a messianic prophecy.

So one of the foundations of the Christian religion, the virgin birth, is based upon a mistranslated text which is ripped out of context and does NOT speak about the messiah.

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I've never understood the Christian interpretation here. G-d gives a sign to someone but that sign comes hundreds of years after that person's death. Is G-d some kind of jokester?

Neostarwcc said:

Micah 5:2

"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

(Jesus was born in Bethlehem)

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Bs"d

Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."

Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.

Isaiah 53:5

"But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed."

(Jesus was whipped, beaten and finally pierced by a wooden spear before and after his Crucifixion)

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Isaiah 53 has no bearing on the messiah whatsoever. It speaks about the people of Israel.

For the finer details look here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com

Psalm 69:21

They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst.

(Jesus was given vinegar to drink during his crucifixion)

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Psa. 69:4...Hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25
Psa. 69:8...A stranger to own brethren...Lu. 8;20,21
Psa. 69:9...Zealous for the Lord's House...Jn. 2:17
Psa. 69:14-20...Messiah's anguish of soul before crucifixion...Mt. 26:36-45
Psa. 69:20..."My soul is exceeding sorrowful."...Mt. 26:38
Psa. 69:21...Given vinegar in thirst...Mt. 27:34
Psa. 69:26...The Saviour given and smitten by God...Jn. 17:4; 18:11

Here we have Psalm 69, good for seven "messianic prophecies".

Let's now look at Psalm 69 inside: "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; They are mighty who would destroy me, being my enemies wrongfully; though I have stolen nothing, I still must restore it. O God, You know my foolishness; and my sins are not hidden from You." Verse 4 and 5.

Here we see that this speaks about a person with "foolishness" and sins. And since JC was without sins according to the Christians, it is impossible to say that this speaks about JC. It speaks of course about king David. So again, what the Christians do is they take a piece of text, doesn't matter what it is talking about, rip it out of context, and present it to us as a messianic prophecy.

As everybody can see by now, this is not “324 messianic prophecies fulfilled by JC”, this is “324 lies of the Baptists”. And according to their homepage, it is for them a divine commandment to reach out to the Jewish people and shove these lies down their throat, until they accept upon themselves a few extra gods and/or a God forsaken, extra-Biblical “trinity”, that flies right in the face of what God wrote in the Torah: Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!” Deuteronomy 6:4

Isaiah 53:3


He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.


(Many of the Jews and people in Jesus's time hated and rejected Jesus. And there is still hatred and rejection for Jesus today)

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Isaiah 53 has no bearing on the messiah whatsoever. It speaks about the people of Israel.

For the finer details look here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com

Jeremiah 31:15

This is what the LORD says: "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more."

(King Herod when he attempted to kill Jesus massacred all of the children)

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Matt 2:16-18 “Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the
wise men, was in a furious rage, and he sent and killed all the male
children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or
under, according to the time which he had ascertained from the wise
men. Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah: “A
voice was heard in Ramah, wailing and loud lamentation, Rachel weeping
for her children; she refused to be consoled, because they were no
more."”
Here the NT claims that Jeremiah 31:15 speaks about a slaughter of
children, taking place in the days of the messiah.

And now read what is really happening there: Jeremiah 31: “10 "Hear
the word of the LORD, O nations, and declare it in the coastlands afar
off; say, 'He who scattered Israel will gather him, and will keep him
as a shepherd keeps his flock.' 11 For the LORD has ransomed Jacob,
and has redeemed him from hands too strong for him. 12 They shall come
and sing aloud on the height of Zion, and they shall be radiant over
the goodness of the LORD, over the grain, the wine, and the oil, and
over the young of the flock and the herd; their life shall be like a
watered garden, and they shall languish no more. 13 Then shall the
maidens rejoice in the dance, and the young men and the old shall be
merry. I will turn their mourning into joy, I will comfort them, and
give them gladness for sorrow. 14 I will feast the soul of the priests
with abundance, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness,
says the LORD." 15 Thus says the LORD: "A voice is heard in Ramah,
lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children;
she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are not."
16 Thus says the LORD: "Keep your voice from weeping, and your eyes
from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says the LORD, and they
shall come back from the land of the enemy. 17 There is hope for your
future, says the LORD, and your children shall come back to their own
country.”

As everyone can see, this speaks about Israel which went into exile,
and of whom God says that they will return from the exile back to the
land of Israel.

Another text which has no bearing on the slaughter of children in the
days of messiah which is ripped out of context by the NT and is
presented to us as a “messianic prophecy”.

These are just some of the Messianic prophecies Jesus fulfilled for a semi complete list you can go here:

44 Prophecies of the Messiah Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

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Here you can see a list which shows that the so called "324 messianic prophecies fulfilled by JC" is nothing more than lies and deceit: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/324x0

The question then arises: Why do the Christians stoop to these kind of practices?

The answer is simple: They don't have anything else.

When there would be some good positive proof that JC was the messiah, then there would be no need to come up with lies and deceit.

FIRESTORM314 said:

ISAIAH 53

Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him and cause Him to suffer. And when His soul is made a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. 11After the anguish of His soul, He will see light of life and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant will justify many, and He will bear their iniquities. 12Therefore I will allot Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the spoils with the strong, because He has poured out His life unto death, and He was numbered among the transgressors. Yet He bore the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors.…

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Bs"d

Isaiah 53 has no bearing on the messiah whatsoever. It speaks about the people of Israel.

For the finer details look here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com


https://tinyurl.com/servant-Isr

Doctor.Sphinx said:

What do you think the first Christians were? Someone raising himself from the dead after 3 days as he promised is pretty good evidence such a one is the Messiah, even for those who reject the Law and the Prophets.

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Bs"d


Why do you think that JC was ressurected?

Even in the New Testament there is NOT ONE SINGLE WITNESS of his resurrection. No man saw him get up from the grave and walk away.

Oh, but he appeared to his disciples. Well, in that case, can you explain to me why nobody recognized him? Look in Luke 24:13-35. This speaks about the men on the road to Emmaus. JC met them, but they didn't recognize him.

The same thing happens in John 20:14; "At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, ... "
She thought JC was the gardener....

John 21:4 "Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus. He called out to them, ..."

And again they didn't recognize him.

Isn't it strange that they didn't recognize the person with whom they were so close for years?

But the NT gives the answer to that strange phenomena. Look in Mark 16:12-13 "Afterward Jesus appeared IN A DIFFERENT FORM to two of them while they were walking in the country."
So it was a person "in a different form" from the previous well known JC who appeared to them, that's why they didn't recognize him.

A person in different form from the old JC, who was not recognized by the people he interacted with for years, only days before, doesn't that sounds like an impostor who is pretending to be the resurrected JC?

That also explains why some of the disciples doubted when the "resurrected JC" appeared to them: "When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted." Matt 28:17.

Can you imagine that the authentic JC appears to you and you still doubt?
Apparently he was not so authentic.

If the disciples, who saw the "resurrected JC" with their own eyes, still doubted, why then do the Christians 2000 years later, who have nothing to go by but stories, don't doubt?

FIRESTORM314 said:

Well I suppose there's more than one way of looking at it - we all see it fit the picture in our minds.

Even among Christians there is much debate over various parts of the scripture so it's not surprising there will be major differences of interpretation among the different religions.

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Bs"d

It is not about the picture in you mind; it is about the picture in the Bible.

http://Isaiah53.notlong.com

Lost4words said:

Jesus brought with Him a new Covenant.

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Bs"d

So did Mohammed.

https://tinyurl.com/eccl-12-13

Lost4words said:

Many Jews ignored Jesus. There are many that dont. Jesus came and made a new Covenant. You dont believe in the NT. We do. The OT and NT fit together perfectly.

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Bs"d

No, they do not fit together.

In the Tanach there is only one God who is one, and His name is Y-H-W-H.

In the NT there are suddenly two gods, the Father and the son. And the Christians don't worship Y-H-W-H, but JC.

"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."

PROVERBS 30:4

Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Whose hands have gathered up the wind? Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is the name of his son? Surely you know!

JOHN 3
We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

FIRESTORM314 said:

PROVERBS 30:4

Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Whose hands have gathered up the wind? Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is the name of his son? Surely you know!

JOHN 3
We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

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Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will climb to heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and let us hear it so that we may obey it?” No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. (Deut. 30:11-14)

LoAmmi said:

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will climb to heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and let us hear it so that we may obey it?” No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. (Deut. 30:11-14)

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You have exposed another Christian myth about the Torah. They say that God made it impossible to keep, but God himself said it was NOT impossible to keep.

FIRESTORM314 said:

PROVERBS 30:4

Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Whose hands have gathered up the wind? Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is the name of his son? Surely you know!

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Bs"d

I surely know. His name is Y-H-W-H and the name of His son is ISRAEL.

"Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says Y-H-W-H: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”
Ex 4

https://tinyurl.com/ecc-12-13