If gaining Salvation is a free choice, why cant losing Salvation also be a free choice?

Sam91 · Jul 1, 2018

I have my usual account back. Posting so that I can follow any replies.

sdowney717 · Jul 1, 2018

Samantha91 said:
To the church in Ephesus who had persevered and not bore with the false teachings of the Nicolaitions lost their first love, He said He would remove their lampstand if they didn't repent. Revelation 2:1-7

Revelation 2:25-26 Also speaks of holding on and persevering to the end.

Revelation 3:1-6 are the verses to which I was referring.

To the Church in Sardis
3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of himiwho has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.

“‘I know your works. You have the reputation jof being alive, kbut youare dead. 2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for Ihave not found your works lcomplete in the sight of my God.3 mRemember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. Ifyou will not wake up, nI will come olike a thief, and you will not know atwhat hour I will come against you. 4 Yet you have still a few names inSardis, people who have not psoiled their garments, and they will walkwith me qin white, for they are rworthy. 5 sThe one who conquers will beclothed thus in white garments, and I will never tblot his name out ofuthe book of life. vI will confess his name before my Father and before hisangels. 6 pHe who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to thechurches.’

Jesus says to the Laodicea that they are lukewarm so He will spit them out. Revelation 3:16

These chapters 2 and 3, really need to be read in entireity to grasp the full effect. Powerful and perfect are His words. He speaks of the need to hold fast, obey, continue in fervour. He is so fair and just. It does not speak of unconditional salvation, it does not say that we no longer sin, as the heresy that some believe in, else why would they need to repent? I can see people twisting some things to fit their theology, but I do not see how when He says that He will not blot out those who overcomes out of the book of life, that He won't blot out those who's faith died. He said it is possible a couple of verses before and that they needed to strengthen what was remaining before it died.

I just do not understand OSAS. I can not see the justification for it. It is the opposite of what all the warnings from Genesis right through to Revelation say in my opinion.

These forums have false teachers working. They are wolves in sheeps clothing. They appear to seem to be God's people but they have not been born of God. People can believe in a false Christ and that would be a Christ who won't be saving them. Many shall follow a false Christ, we have fair warning from Peter and Christ and Paul and Jude about these things. God will destroy those who do not believe, who do NOT know God, are not obedient to His Son the true Christ, who depart the faith (actually His church) to follow demonic doctrines.
However the saints are preserved in Christ and approved of God.

2 Thessalonians 1
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Why they depart 1 John 2 cleary explains, that they are actually antichrists.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

18 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

20 And ye have an anointing from the Holy One, and ye know all the things.

Apostle John explains that those who are that way are not 'of us', so they were never conformed to Christ because they were never born again.
So they seperate themselves from 'us', here they actually departed physically, maybe John kicked them out of the church, Jude describes them that still remain with us.
They are among the true church, present with you, but inside of them they are dead. Jude calls them twice dead, so they go to the second death. When the people left Egypt with Israel, not all of them believed, we have ample scriptural evidence of God destroying them in the wilderness during their earthly journey to the promised land. To those who know God, they can be noticed by their bad fruit, by what they say. The tares try to hide among the wheat. When immature, both tare and wheat look very much alike, but you can easily tell them apart at the harvest of their fruits, the tares have no fruit like the wheat have, they are entirely different. They are worthless, only good for burning. What is interesting, is in that parable of tare and wheat, the angels, or God's workers instantly recognized after they sprouted, the tares that were sown by the devil, but the Master, said let them both grow together till the harvest. So we have these tares in our fellowship and in the church, but they are of Satan and not of the Father, not of the Spirit, so they are not born again. The wheat do not turn into the tares. They can not, as they were planted by the Son in God's field. They are going to grow and bear good fruit to God and be preserved to be gathered into God's house.

Jude
Old and New Apostates
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of [e]dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in [f]contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

Apostates Depraved and Doomed
12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Sam91 · Jul 1, 2018

sdowney717 said:
These forums have false teachers working. They are wolves in sheeps clothing. They appear to seem to be God's people but they have not been born of God. People can believe in a false Christ and that would be a Christ who won't be saving them. Many shall follow a false Christ, we have fair warning from Peter and Christ and Paul and Jude about these things. God will destroy those who do not believe, who do NOT know God, are not obedient to His Son the true Christ, who depart the faith (actually His church) to follow demonic doctrines.
However the saints are preserved in Christ and approved of God.

2 Thessalonians 1
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Why they depart 1 John 2 cleary explains, that they are actually antichrists. Apostle John explains that those who are that way are not 'of us', so they were never conformed to Christ because they were never born again. They are among the true church, present with you, but inside of them they are dead. Jude calls them twice dead, so they go to the second death. When the people left Egypt with Israel, not all of them believed, we have ample scriptural evidence of God destroying them in the wilderness during their earthly journey to the promised land. To those who know God, they can be noticed by their bad fruit, by what they say. The tares try to hide among the wheat. When immature, both tare and wheat look very much alike, but you can easily tell them apart at the harvest of their fruits, the tares have no fruit like the wheat have, they are entirely different. They are worthless, only good for burning. What is interesting, is in that parable of tare and wheat, the angels, or God's workers instantly recognized after they sprouted, the tares that were sown by the devil, but the Master, said let them both grow together till the harvest. So we have these tares in our fellowship and in the church, but they are of Satan and not of the Father, not of the Spirit, so they are not born again. The wheat do not turn into the tares. They can not, as they were planted by the Son in God's field. They are going to grow and bear good fruit to God and be preserved to be gathered into God's house.

Jude
Old and New Apostates
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of [e]dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in [f]contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

Apostates Depraved and Doomed
12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

That bears what relation to my post? Sorry if I'm being silly, have a 3 year old about.

EDIT Oh I see now about those who "went out from us".

However, my point is that Jesus in Revelation was talking to His saints. He was warning those who were no longer fervent that they needed to repent. If Jesus can blot people out of the book of life that shows that those who were once saved can be no longer saved?

sdowney717 · Jul 1, 2018

Sam91 said:
That bears what relation to my post? Sorry if I'm being silly, have a 3 year old about.

EDIT Oh I see now about those who "went out from us".

However, my point is that Jesus in Revelation was talking to His saints. He was warning those who were no longer fervent that they needed to repent. If Jesus can blot people out of the book of life that shows that those who were once saved can be no longer saved?

Like I said, your either the wheat planted by the Son (born of God), or your the tare planted by the devil. You either one or the other. God will not blot out the names of His saints from heaven. Those He loves He rebukes and chastens (disciplines to conform them to Christ). How about those who died in the Corinthian church who dishonored the Lord, not discerning the body of Christ?
They God killed, but they spiritually He saved. There was a penalty to pay for their sin.

1 Corinthians 11:28-32 New King James Version (NKJV)
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks [a]in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many [c]sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

sdowney717 · Jul 1, 2018

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Ask yourself, did those people in those churches in Revelation believe in Christ?, If yes, God says they are overcomers and have eternal life, but will they be judged for the deeds done in the body? Yes absolutely. Unbelievers, God destroys them all. Believers He chastens and rebukes so that they are not condemned with the world whose destiny is death in the lake of fire.

1 John 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Obedience by Faith
1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—[a]our faith.

5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

The Certainty of God’s Witness
6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of [c]God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has [d]life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, [e]and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Ron Gurley · Jul 1, 2018

"Even the lost are Gods children"

False!

1 Even the wicked lost are God's creation, the good gone astray.

2 Only the saved believers are "God's children".

1 John 3:1 [Children of God Love One Another]
See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, (believers) that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

Chinchilla · Jul 1, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
If that was all He said, and if you were ever able to understand Him and say what He says to say, instead of picking things you were taught without understanding,
you might not be forsaken; and you wouldn't try to pass off error as truth.

Proverbs 26:5

Let's assume you are right .
By your logic God can save me on my death bed at 70 year old in hospital forgiving me all my sins I did in my life , but he can't save me at 20 years old and keep me from sinning by power of Holy Spirit for the rest of 50 years of my life...

Moreover I was born around 2000 year , Yeshua alredy paid for my sins 2000 years in advance but by your logic he was not good enought to pay for 2050 years in advance ...

By the way if you still trying to save yourself you do better start casting out demons , prophecy and do many wonderful miracles because these people did such things and it was not good enought for Yeshua so you better of do the same + something more

Matthew 7:22-24

Sam91 · Jul 1, 2018

sdowney717 said:
Like I said, your either the wheat planted by the Son (born of God), or your the tare planted by the devil. You either one or the other. God will not blot out the names of His saints from heaven. Those He loves He rebukes and chastens (disciplines to conform them to Christ). How about those who died in the Corinthian church who dishonored the Lord, not discerning the body of Christ?
They God killed, but they spiritually He saved. There was a penalty to pay for their sin.

1 Corinthians 11:28-32 New King James Version (NKJV)
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks [a]in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many [c]sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

It is all well and good asking me to work out whether I am wheat or a weed. But how do you explain John 15:1-15.

Jesus says multiple times that we branches must remain in Him. He says that if we don't produce fruit we will be cut off. I do not read it that He is talking about unbelievers being cut off, but people He has chosen and knew Him but who have not obeyed Him. I think that I could think of possibly as many as 50 verses throughout the Bible which say similar.

sdowney717 · Jul 1, 2018

Sam91 said:
It is all well and good asking me to work out whether I am wheat or a weed. But how do you explain John 15:1-15.

Jesus says multiple times that we branches must remain in Him. He says that if we don't produce fruit we will be cut off. I do not read it that He is talking about unbelievers being cut off, but people He has chosen and knew Him but who have not obeyed Him. I think that I could think of possibly as many as 50 verses throughout the Bible which say similar.

Seems like those branches were saved people. But they were not. Christ created all things, all worlds, all animals, all men. God , though, prunes from Christ everyone He does not want on Christ the true vine. What is left are believers, infants, young children. If you do not believe in Christ , God says you have no part in Christ. I also say an analogy like this is the way Christ taught many things. He is not literally a vine, but a vine is showing he is our root and source of nutrition for the braches, us, to bear fruit. The analogy also shows Him as the creator and source of life for all people.
.

Loren T. · Jul 1, 2018

ladodgers6 said:
So if I understand this correctly, Christ did not complete it at the Cross. I or you complete it through our efforts & works?

Don't be silly. I said I had to humble myself, and let go of my pride. This submitting is not a work, it is the opposite. You know what takes work? Being at war with the Spirit.
Calvinism constantly tries to insist that if I can put my faith in something, if I can even reach out my hand when God throws me the flotation device, or whatever analogy you want to use, that I'm doing a work and saving myself. Good grief. Go read the faith chapter and chill out. Of course my faith doesn't save me. Repeat after me, "Faith is not a work."

Bobber · Jul 1, 2018

sdowney717 said:
Seems like those branches were saved people. But they were not.

Seems like? Wasn't it Jesus himself which said they actually were or could be apart of the vine....and yet be cut off? If Jesus said such were or could be a branch connected to the vine why doesn't that mean they were In Christ and Christ was in them. Not to remain actually signifies you were in. Well if they were in according to how you Calvinists view it they could only have got in by irresistible grace. If it's irresistible how could they have left. I know...you're still probably going to insist that they weren't actually linked to the vine but that clearly runs contrary to the revealing of scripture and the words of Jesus. You might want to reconsider your position. :prayer:

Bobber · Jul 1, 2018

sdowney717 said:
These forums have false teachers working. They are wolves in sheeps clothing.

I suspect you may be correct but the real question is who? Who are the false teachers? Who are the wolves in sheep's clothing? If you're going to be pointing fingers as it seems you are keep in mind religious leaders said similar things about Christ that he was linked to the devil. You charge towards others means nothing on this forum. A good solid substantial scriptural argument on your part might. I'm sorry but I haven't seen anything yet to show you've got one.

sdowney717 · Jul 1, 2018

Bobber said:
Seems like? Wasn't it Jesus himself which said they actually were or could be apart of the vine....and yet be cut off? If Jesus said such were or could be a branch connected to the vine why doesn't that mean they were In Christ and Christ was in them. Not to remain actually signifies you were in. Well if they were in according to how you Calvinists view it they could only have got in by irresistible grace. If it's irresistible how could they have left. I know...you're still probably going to insist that they weren't actually linked to the vine but that clearly runs contrary to the revealing of scripture and the words of Jesus. You might want to reconsider your position.

Nope, wont because Scripture is clear, Christ gives eternal life to His sheep and He says they NEVER perish.
That word NEVER is quite clear in the meaning, they NEVER PERISH, yet a false teacher will say Christ's sheep can perish. Teaching such a thing is against Christ, so it is antichrist. Of Christ's sheep, Christ says they hear His voice, He knows them, they follow me, so all those are qualities of His sheep too.

John 10:27-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Even the simple things get twisted by false teachers. Peter says they will twist this and then that and then all the scriptures they screw up, to their own destruction. You will know them by their fruit, on a forum by the fruit of their lips, so what they type. I suppose it is like out of the heart the person types (mouth speaks). There is no gray areas, no wiggle this or that to squeeze or force fit some odd strange unusual doctrine if it is against the clear teaching of Christ.

Sam91 · Jul 1, 2018

sdowney717 said:
Nope, wont because Scripture is clear, Christ gives eternal life to His sheep and He says they NEVER perish.
That word NEVER is quite clear in the meaning, they NEVER PERISH, yet a false teacher will say Christ's sheep can perish. Teaching such a thing is against Christ, so it is antichrist. Of Christ's sheep, Christ says they hear His voice, He knows them, they follow me, so all those are qualities of His sheep too.

John 10:27-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Even the simple things get twisted by false teachers. Peter says they will twist this and then that and then all the scriptures they screw up, to their own destruction. You will know them by their fruit, on a forum by the fruit of their lips, so what they type. I suppose it is like out of the heart the person types (mouth speaks). There is no gray areas, no wiggle this or that to squeeze or force fit some odd strange unusual doctrine if it is against the clear teaching of Christ.

Which is my point about OSAS. I have been wanting to ask questions for years but just keep putting it off due to not wanting to undermine someone's faith because of my own convictions. I just decide to go on what the Bible says rather than what people are saying because maybe the answers are in the Greek/hebrew words. Of which I'm not a scholar and unless I meet one with adequate time to explain the words and not peoples theories, I'll just have to trust that God will show me gradually if relevant and if not it is not understanding that He desires me to have.

AlexDTX · Jul 1, 2018

SAAN said:
If you think about it, if is a free gift from God in which if one confesses with their mouth and believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord, and they turn from their sins, they will be saved, according to Romans 10:9-11, why cant them loosing Salvation also be an option if they choose to openly denounce their faith and God and they no longer feel the need to follow God and die unrepentant in their sins.

Think how many atheists you see on line religious forums or social media, states how they used to be devout Christians, until they opened their eyes and either saw the bible as nonsense or the idea of a God itself to be false as well with all that goes on in the world and they denounce their faith and do as they please and many die in that state. Would we say, that atheist is going to Heaven because they spouted a few words when they were 13yrs old in church, despite his future free will choice as an adult to walk away from God.

It is free will and, yes, you can lose your salvation, even though Christ will never reject us. You make it sound like a simple conscious mind decision. It is not. Salvation is in the heart. To lose one's salvation your heart has to harden to the point that you believe evil is good, but you will not consciously recognize that switch. This is why we are not to allow roots of bitterness get into our hearts. The demonic world constantly seek inroads in our lives where they can discourage us with perplexing questions based upon false assumptions about God that are demonic doctrines designed to seem right. Sovereignty of God is one demonic doctrine for many people. God is sovereign, for sure, but not in the meaning that many attribute to the term. Many believe that his sovereignty means he is directly responsible for everything, which is utter hogwash. He gave all life free will and we make choices that are our own fault. There are also demons actively interfering with as many believers working to undermine their trust in the goodness and wisdom of God.

Yes you can lose your salvation, but it is very hard to do so.

MDC · Jul 1, 2018

AlexDTX said:
It is free will and, yes, you can lose your salvation, even though Christ will never reject us. You make it sound like a simple conscious mind decision. It is not. Salvation is in the heart. To lose one's salvation your heart has to harden to the point that you believe evil is good, but you will not consciously recognize that switch. This is why we are not to allow roots of bitterness get into our hearts. The demonic world constantly seek inroads in our lives where they can discourage us with perplexing questions based upon false assumptions about God that are demonic doctrines designed to seem right. Sovereignty of God is one demonic doctrine for many people. God is sovereign, for sure, but not in the meaning that many attribute to the term. Many believe that his sovereignty means he is directly responsible for everything, which is utter hogwash. He gave all life free will and we make choices that are our own fault. There are also demons actively interfering with as many believers working to undermine their trust in the goodness and wisdom of God.

Yes you can lose your salvation, but it is very hard to do so.

If the elect can lose their salvation, then Christ has failed.. that’s exactly what you and others are saying

Bobber · Jul 1, 2018

sdowney717 said:
Nope, wont because Scripture is clear, Christ gives eternal life to His sheep and He says they NEVER perish.

With respect aren't you failing to acknowledge ALL of which Christ said? If Jesus only said they NEVER will perish then I'd say you've won your case. But when Jesus adds on and says "If you remain in me" how does that not create a new qualifier to the statement given before? You can't see that you're cherry picking the scriptures accepting some rejecting others and not allowing them all to balance everything out? I'd encourage you to know that is what rightly dividing the word of God is all about. 2 Timothy 2:15

Bobber · Jul 1, 2018

MDC said:
If the elect can lose their salvation, then Christ has failed.. that’s exactly what you and others are saying

I've heard this argument before. Jesus is a failure if people walk away from him. You can relax the scripture states,

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Revelation 7:9,10

The harvest of God will be great so if you're judging things by numbers that's pretty good. In John 6:67 it states though that everybody left him except the twelve...did that make Jesus a failure? No. Success is doing things and being what you are if you're good, right, just and fair. Is it to be determined by how others perceive you? Most certainly not! LOVE is success and that's what God is. If many or most choose not LOVE...they are the failures...NOT GOD.

Anto9us · Jul 1, 2018

MDC said:
If the elect can lose their salvation, then Christ has failed

That's just YOUR OPINION -- it is not REALITY.

And anyway, THE ELECT are those who God has foreseen will BELIEVE and PERSIST IN BELIEVING

Sam91 · Jul 1, 2018

MDC said:
If the elect can lose their salvation, then Christ has failed.. that’s exactly what you and others are saying

It isn't what I'm saying. That is what you are interpreting it to mean.

Look at Judas. He walked with Jesus. Chosen by Him. Did Christ fail him, or did he make his own decision?

Why are there all these warnings there to persevere, hold fast, bear fruit or be cut off, lampstand removed etc if not to take it for granted.

Even Paul says he hasn't already obtained the prize, not perfect yet. Philippians 3:12-13.

John writes about praying for a brother who is sinning that doesn't lead to death. He then says not to pray about the sin that does lead to death. 1 John 5:16-17

Now if someone is to be able to sin that
does lead to death... that person a brother. From that I surmise that the person is alive in Christ first. Else, would it be a brother?

I am not saying that Christ has failed. He is Lord and Saviour. He said it is finished. He has had the victory over death. He is soveriegn, the good Shepherd. Perfect, omnipotent, omniscient. Roman's says nothing can separate us from the love of God. But I believe our decisions can. It doesn't say that we can be lukewarm, or sinning and love God. Nowhere does it say to be half hearted about it and not care about sin. It is how the Bible reads, to me.

Isaiah 55:6-13

If gaining Salvation is a free choice, why cant losing Salvation also be a free choice?

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