jerry kelso
Food For Thought
jgr, This passage is to the Jews in the church and this has nothing to with the kingdom program for Israel. You are wrong as usual. Jerry kelso
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7th Trumpet Rapture?
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jgr, This passage is to the Jews in the church and this has nothing to with the kingdom program for Israel. You are wrong as usual. Jerry kelso
jerry kelso
Food For Thought
keras,
1. You are being careless with the context.
You don’t seem to understand the covenants made are eternal unconditionally and so all the desolation’s of Israel will not stop them from not entering into it for they shall When they repent and God writes their laws into their hearts Ann’s minds. Read the book of Hosea. Jerry kelso
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Jerry,
It is to the elect Jews in the Church. Their kingdom program is the same as that for elect Gentiles.
Peter draws no distinctions.
Acts 10
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
jgr,
1. In the millennial kingdom all backslidden Israel will be saved. Repentance is the condition which will happen because the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are unconditionally eternal. They have to happen because God promised.
Why is that so hard you to understand and believe? Jerry Kelso
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
jgr.
1. Acts 10:34-35 is written to the church.
2. The millennial kingdom is a different age. That same truth in that scripture will be true in the millennial kingdom.
But that has nothing to do with Israel’s gifts and callings that are not the same as the churches.
3. Acts 10:34-35 context was talking about the mystery of the church of Jews and Gentiles being on the same level concerning salvation Ephesians 2:14-15;3:3-6.
That won’t change in the millennial kingdom.
Different positions of authority in the KoH has nothing to with God being respect of persons or Israel being more important than the church or vice versa. Jerry kelso
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keras
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You really don't understand that the Covenants made with Abraham to the New Covenant, is always with people of faith. ONLY with true believers, originally with the Israelite people, but since Jesus came, with people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10
The New Testament is perfectly clear that the inheritance promised to the Patriarchs was Jesus and through our faith in Him, we Christians inherit the holy Land.
Your determination to have an ethnic group: the Jews, become the people of God, is wrong and unscriptural. Jesus said; those who call themselves Jews are of the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 3:9 Who calls themselves Jews? The Israelis.
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jerry kelso
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keras,
1. The New Covenant is salvation through Christ death, burial and resurrection.
We agree on that.
2. The New Covenant is with faith and believers both Jews and Gentiles in the church today.
We both agree on it that.
3. Revelation 5:9-10 are the Old Testament Saints and New Testament Saints that had died and the living believers caught up in the rapture before the tribulation for we will all reign.
All the tribulation saints will go to Heaven right before the 7 vials Revelation 15:1-2; 20:4-6.
The 7 vials is the Wrath of God on the Beast Kingdom worshippers Revelation 16:2.
4. We inherit Heaven where Jesus has gone to prepare our mansions John 14:1-3 not Israel’s land on earth.
The inheritance was through Abraham and that was about salvation of grace and not works Roman’s 4:1-5; Galatians 3:16-19.
5. Jews do become a holy nation and come back into their eternal covenants but you ignore those scriptures.
6. Revelation 3:9 the Jews of the synagogue of Satan was among the historical church of Philadelphia. I am sure there are some of them in Jewish synagogues today and probably will be in the tribulation. But it is not in the millennial kingdom.
7. Ezekiel 37:16:28 shows the physical nation of Israel and Judah both united in the KoH. Gentiles are not mentioned and Gentiles are not Israel and Judah.
If you think so you are spirtualizing scripture and you believe in replacement theology.
You really think the church is going to be comprised of 12 tribes of Israel with David as their King? There’s no scripture for this.
8. Why do you hate that Israel will be at the head of the nations ? Isaiah 2:2-4.
We will all be under the New Covenant.
Why do you hate that God chose them to administer the feasts and to have their Holy city as the capital of the earth?
Jerry Kelso
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
jgr,
Why do you keep saying something that is not true?
Do you think it is impossible for a physical nation to believe by faith and obedience?
Why don’t you admit you are one sided and don’t take all scriptures into account.
Why do you hate that God chose them to put them at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and have the capital of Israel as the capital of the earth? Jerry kelso
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keras
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Rev 5-9-10 doesn't say that, you have made that up. And please don't mention a 'rapture to heaven' without proper proof of that fanciful notion.
The people mentioned in Rev 5, are every living Christian, Jew and Gentile.
False teaching! Rev 15 is about the 7 Vials and the martyrs killed by the Anti-Christ. Their souls are kept under the Altar. Rev 6:9-11
John 14:1-3 is a prophecy about the New Jerusalem, that comes down to earth after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7.
The faithful Christians inherit all of the holy Land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 33:10-11, Ephesians 3:6, Psalms 37:29
You ignore the many prophesies that say how Judah will be judged and only a remnant will survive.
WHO calls themselves Jews now? Who is in apostasy and rejection of Jesus?
I do and there is. The 144,000 are selected out of the vast multitude of Revelation 7:9. They are the people that God will call His sons. Romans 9:24-26
Those who accuse others of hatred, have hate in their own hearts.
Your primary error is in assuming that Israel always refers to the Jewish people.
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seventysevens
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Jews do become a Holy nation - at least to say that Israel would become a literal physical nation before Jesus returns and a remnant of them will be saved-
THEN the Israel nation will become Holy after Jesus returns - you can say there are a lot of Holy Christians in the USA , but the USA is not behaving as a Holy nation
apostasy is happening in the USA now as well ,
IF the 144000 were not true Jews - JESUS would have told us - but he said 144000 Jews and named the 12 JEWISH tribes - you refuse what the LORD has said and force your views upon scripture to make it say what you prefer - not the truth
Some of you guys do not understand that God is gathering back the Jews to Israel for HIS own purposes - some of which are discipline and judgment - those who do not acknowledge the discipline - will face judgment in a manner Jesus would rather not do - he calls them all to repentance - some will repent - most will not , but Gods plan will remain as scripture says
Israel is reborn as a nation(prophecy fulfilled) and then will be judged for continuing to reject Jesus - after they are judged the country of Israel will still exist and will have Christ in their midst
If you don't like the rapture - go eat bananas
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Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
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The woman at the well agrees with you.
You must have missed the fact that Christ corrected her.
Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."
Joh 4:21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
Our destination is not the city of "bondage", described below by Paul.
Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Heb 11:15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. (The Old Testament saints are also looking forward to the heavenly city.)
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
keras,
1. You don’t call 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 a rapture? Christ brings the dead from Heaven to meet the living believers in the sky to be with him forever. That is not a rapture?
When does it happen? It doesn’t happen at the last day of the First Resurrection for their will only be tribulation saints who are dead Revelation 15:1-2;Revelation 20:4-6. They are in Heaven before the Wrath of God Revelation 15:1-2.
The wrath of God are the 7 vials on the beast kingdom worshippers Revelation 16:1-2, not the tribulation saints.
2. Revelation 5 are every living Christian from the Old and New Tament Saints is true. Why? Because they were raptured and resurrected, for right now the dead in Christ are in Heaven and Christ has to bring them from Heaven to meet living believers. You said they were all living believers and the pre-trib rapture is why. This is before the tribulation begins in Revelation 6.
3. Revelation 6:9-11 are the souls under the altar who was martyred in the First half of the the tribulation and have to wait for their fellow brethren who must be killed like them. The blessed is found in Revelation 14:13 right before those martyrs who didn’t take the mark and who sang the song of Moses and the Lamb Revelation 15:1-3.
There is no where in the passage that says the martyrs in the 1st resurrection have to go through the 7 vials.
4. John 14:1-3 is about in Heaven with Mansions and being received unto himself will be in the throne room scene.
The Holy City will come down from Heaven and submerge into the earth. And the nations shall walk in it. This has nothing to do with replacing the earthly KoH reign for that is forever Isaiah 9:6-7; Ezekiel 37:25.
5. Judah and Israel will both go through much desolation but not complete destruction for God will always have mercy on Israel and they will repent and receive the kingdom because of eternal covenants of Abraham and David that cannot be broken 2 Samuel 7:13-16 and 1 Chronicles 28:1-7.
6. The faithful Christians will inherit Heaven where God dwells 1 Corinthians 15:50-52.
7. The 144,000 Jews are not called out of the multitude. That is two separate contexts.
8. Israel is always referred to Israel. Even in Roman’s 2 was directly to the Jew not gentile. Just be cause you can refer it to the gentile that is saved doesn’t mean the Gentiles inherit everything that belongs to Israel. Shameful exegesis.
As long as you refuse to keep the callings of the nation of Israel and the church you will always stay confused. Jerry kelso
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keras
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YOU have altered scripture!
The 144,000 are from all the tribes of Israel, of which Judah is only one. The Jews today do come from two of the tribes; Judah and Benjamin, that's all.
Your 'rapture' blinkers force you to make foolish errors and wrong assumptions, if you think that the Jews are all Israel. It would be hard to find 12,000 born again Christian Jews! 144,000 ?
What I don't like and I campaign against, is the unscriptural false teaching of a removal of the Church before any trials and testing. 1 Peter 4:12 plainly says that we must face testing and 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 tells us it will be by fire.If you don't like the rapture - go eat bananas
People who liked the idea of being whisked up to heaven, will be very shocked when it doesn't happen, as the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath strikes the earth and may renounce God. That is why I promote the truth, so people can be prepared, physically and spiritually for what must come.
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keras
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No I do not. That event is just a transportation from where we are on earth, to where His is, having departed from heaven on His way to earth. He meets His faithful people in the clouds, then all, including the resurrected martyrs, go to Jerusalem.
This does not happen until after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7
You completely fail to understand why Jesus came. He brought salvation to all who would accept it. John 3:16
We Christians are the inheritors of God's promises to ancient Israel. It is by FAITH alone that they are conferred. Those who reject God and His Son cannot inherit the Kingdom. Matthew 21:43 is a plain statement of fact, that you have to deny, to your discredit. Shame on you.
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jerry kelso
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keras,
1. You are just piece mealing things together and you are wrong.
2. You are saying this non- rapture transport and going back to Jerusalem is after the millennium.
3. The resurrection of the dead only is the last day and this is true.
The saints will rule and reign for a 1000 Years.
4. You believe this transport coming out of Heaven and going to Jerusalem is 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.
Verse 7 is the last verse you gave and puts this transport to that battle.
There is no proof there for nothing happens to the camp of the saints
and they are still on the earth. Fire comes out of Heaven and destroys the deceived and Satan is thrown into the lake of fire.
5. If you put this transport after the battle then we would be going to the New Heaven and the New Earth when the Holy City comes down from Heaven.
This sounds like a possibility for 1 Thessalonians 4:17 which says and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
However, this doesn’t gel with 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.
The Day of the Lord won’t come until the falling away and the man of sin is revealed which is in the middle of the tribulation.
So your transport after the millennium is not scriptural.
6. John 3:16 was spoken by John after the fact. Why?
The 1st 12 verses Jesus spoke to Nicodemus. In verse 13 says; And no man hath ascended up to Heaven, but he that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man which is in Heaven.
Jesus was on earth speaking to Nicodemus not from Heaven.
Also, Jesus is in the second person vs. 14-18. Vs. 19-21 is still John talking. Vs. 22 after these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judea would seem to be more fitting after the Passover John 2:13-25.
7. Still it is true that Christ came to save the world and that is what the Jews missed was the suffering Messiah Isaiah 53.
At the same time he had to offer the KoH reign to the Jews and they had to repent as a nation Matthew 4:17. But instead they rejected him Matthew 23:37-39.
The offer was valid because of what Jesus said in verse 37.
The problem was that the Jews were looking for a conquering messiah without repenting. This is why Jesus prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple Matthew 24:1-2. This happened in 70 A.D.
8. There is no scripture that says the church inherits Ancient Israel’s KoH promises.
The church is blessed and set in Heavenly places Ephesians 1:3.
We will inherit Heaven 1 Corinthians 15:50-52.
We are being trained to rule and reign 2 Timothy 2:12. This will be in the KoH but this is not the same as the gifts and callings of Israel Romans 11:29.
9. Matthew 21:43; the KoG is the spiritual aspect that brings the fruits thereof.
The church would heed God’s call and has taken their place of propagating the gospel Acts 28:28; Romans 11:11; Acts 2:47.
Shame back at you. Jerry Kelso
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keras
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Jerry, you just keep on with your beliefs, without properly considering anyone who contradicts you.
You quote Ephesians 1:3 as a rapture proof. It does not say we go to heaven and the context is about our salvation and our earthly calling.
Typical of a 'rapture to heaven' believer, you see all scripture thru that view.
To clarify the difference between how those who remain when Jesus Returns are gathered to Him, as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-7 says, and the 2 Witnesses, who are taken to heaven, we need to realize that the gathering, as Matthew 24:31 describes, is not to heaven but to Jerusalem, where Jesus will reign from. It is just a transportation to meet Him and then be with Him forever, the same as what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39 Immortality, as described in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is not conferred until after the Millennium. Only after the Book of life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15
Rapture believers say: There might be some dispute about the timing, but the concept is very clear in scripture. Quote
The concept of a rapture to heaven of the Church is NOT 'very clear' at all. There is no verse that states God intends to take the Christian Church to heaven. But there are several that say such a thing is impossible. John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
And as for the 'dispute about the timing', this ongoing argument should ring bells of concern for all who wish to believe in the rapture theory. For 100+ years this issue has been argued and fought over by Christians, without any resolution. Pre, Mid, Post and now Pre-wrath, all have their exponents and all are wrong because the Bible simply does not prophesy a rapture to heaven at any time.
What we see with the rapture issue, is assumptions, inferences and plain guesswork, resulting in lies and confusion. Promoted, of course, by the Author of lies and confusion.
We are told that people will be susceptible to false teachings, 1 Timothy 4:3-4, and Jesus warned us to not be deceived. I guess He knew that many would be deceived!
What the Prophetic Word does tell us God will do for His people, those who stand firm in their faith; is protection through al that must happen. Dozens of verses state how the Lord will protect His own through fire, Isaiah 43:2 and the 3 men in the furnace, Daniel 3:19-27, are examples.
We are told to Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21.
You quote Ephesians 1:3 as a rapture proof. It does not say we go to heaven and the context is about our salvation and our earthly calling.
Typical of a 'rapture to heaven' believer, you see all scripture thru that view.
To clarify the difference between how those who remain when Jesus Returns are gathered to Him, as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-7 says, and the 2 Witnesses, who are taken to heaven, we need to realize that the gathering, as Matthew 24:31 describes, is not to heaven but to Jerusalem, where Jesus will reign from. It is just a transportation to meet Him and then be with Him forever, the same as what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39 Immortality, as described in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is not conferred until after the Millennium. Only after the Book of life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15
Rapture believers say: There might be some dispute about the timing, but the concept is very clear in scripture. Quote
The concept of a rapture to heaven of the Church is NOT 'very clear' at all. There is no verse that states God intends to take the Christian Church to heaven. But there are several that say such a thing is impossible. John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
And as for the 'dispute about the timing', this ongoing argument should ring bells of concern for all who wish to believe in the rapture theory. For 100+ years this issue has been argued and fought over by Christians, without any resolution. Pre, Mid, Post and now Pre-wrath, all have their exponents and all are wrong because the Bible simply does not prophesy a rapture to heaven at any time.
What we see with the rapture issue, is assumptions, inferences and plain guesswork, resulting in lies and confusion. Promoted, of course, by the Author of lies and confusion.
We are told that people will be susceptible to false teachings, 1 Timothy 4:3-4, and Jesus warned us to not be deceived. I guess He knew that many would be deceived!
What the Prophetic Word does tell us God will do for His people, those who stand firm in their faith; is protection through al that must happen. Dozens of verses state how the Lord will protect His own through fire, Isaiah 43:2 and the 3 men in the furnace, Daniel 3:19-27, are examples.
We are told to Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21.
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