Embracing the Sabbath Commandment

SAAN said:

There you go as usual making stuff up, I NO WHERE said righteousness was obtained by keeping the law, even Paul himself confirms this.

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Is violating the law unrighteousness? If so keeping the law is righteousness. My righteousness comes thru Jesus. The law makes no one righteous.

What im pointing out is the made up doctrine of commands for Christians, as God DID NOT have separate commands for Christians, so there is no such things as Christians can eat unclean foods, because God said in the beginning what was meant to be food in Lev 11 and it applies to ALL his followers. There is also no such thing as Holy Days for the Jews vs Holidays for the Christians, but the mess Judaism is, doesnt help with any of these issues either.

Not all laws apply to everyone, but if there are still do able they apply to you

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It's what comes out of the mouth that defiles, not what enters as Jesus point out. In-other-words it's not a sin for specifically for Gentiles to eat pork whether or not they claim Jesus as Savior.

BobRyan said:

Yes... by those verses... here they are again

It includes the "TEN Commandments" as even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody point out.

And Christ points to the TEN in Matthew 19
Paul points to the unit of TEN on Ephesians 6:2
And Paul quotes even more from them in Romans 13 - giving the same list as Christ.

But as we all note - none of them quote "do not take God's name in vain" -- still that is a good one as well.

And we have seen a lot of "New Covenant" Christians here in recent months.

Even though the "New Covenant made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah" Hebrews 8:6-12 where "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

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for you. The NT doesn't teach obligation to the law.

BobRyan said:

You can make arguments that appeal to emotionalism but it is not the same as having an actual Bible basis for them.

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What I said isn't emotionally based or out burst.

listed said: ↑
Jeremiah surely must be a false prophet right along with Jesus. Said tongue-in-cheek. I believe neither, but it has to be true to defend your position.

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BobRyan said:

You can make arguments that appeal to emotionalism but it is not the same as having an actual Bible basis for them.

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listed said:

What I said isn't emotionally based or out burst.

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factless false accusations devoid of all Bible content are a form of emotional argument. A strong factless statement used to degrade or villify one who is deemed to oppose your position. My post simply notes the appeal to that sort of emotionalism in your post and the fact that there are no Bible evidences given by you in that post - to support your statements.

listed said:

for you. The NT doesn't teach obligation to the law.

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1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP his Commandments"

The point remains

BobRyan said:

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP his Commandments"

The point remains

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Romans 7
1 Surely you know, brothers – for I am speaking to those who understand the Law – that the Law has authority over a person only so long as he lives?

4 Thus, my brothers, you have been made dead with regard to the Law through the Messiah’s body, so that you may belong to someone else, namely, the one who has been raised from the dead, in order for us to bear fruit for God.

5 For when we were living according to our old nature, the passions connected with sins worked through the Law in our various parts, with the result that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from this aspect of the Law, because we have died to that which had us in its clutches, so that we are serving in the new way provided by the Spirit and not in the old way of outwardly following the letter of the law.

9 I was once alive outside the framework of the Law. But when the commandment really encountered me, sin sprang to life, 10 and I died. The commandment that was intended to bring me life was found to be bringing me death!

13….it was sin working death in me through something good, so that sin might be clearly exposed as sin, so that sin through the commandment might come to be experienced as sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the Law is of the Spirit..

Yes, this point remains...

Dead to what? Released from what?
Paul's understanding of the Law seem quite opposite of what you claim.

You continually conflate the words given Moses with the word spoken by Jesus. As if to teach the are one and the same commandments when they are not.

BobRyan said:

Yes... by those verses... here they are again

It includes the "TEN Commandments" as even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody point out.

And Christ points to the TEN in Matthew 19
Paul points to the unit of TEN on Ephesians 6:2
And Paul quotes even more from them in Romans 13 - giving the same list as Christ.

But as we all note - none of them quote "do not take God's name in vain" -- still that is a good one as well.

And we have seen a lot of "New Covenant" Christians here in recent months.

Even though the "New Covenant made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah" Hebrews 8:6-12 where "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

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listed said:

No and Jeremiah 31 has been explained to you.

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And read by me -- and I pay attention to Bible details -- seeing it "unchanged" in Hebrews 8:6-12 from what it is in Jeremiah 31:31-33

It includes the "TEN Commandments" as even the
"Baptist Confession of Faith"
and D.L. Moody
and "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 point out.

BobRyan said:

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP his Commandments"
The point remains

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Shimshon said:

Romans 7

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Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? ...

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

The Conflict of Two Natures
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

...20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Shimshon said:

Yes, this point remains...

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Indeed it does

BobRyan said:

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP his Commandments"
The point remains

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Shimshon said:

Dead to what? Released from what?

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Released from the condemnation of the law discussed in Romans 3:19-21 by which all humans are condemned.

Still... even in the NT "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
and it is a sin to "take God's name in vain"

Shimshon said:

You continually conflate the words given Moses with the word spoken by Jesus. As if to teach the are one and the same commandments when they are not.

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Until you read the actual Bible on that very point

Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said,
‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’;
11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the Word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

In that example "Commandment of God" = "Moses Said" = "Word of God"

Matthew 19
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

Shimshon said:

You continually conflate the words given Moses with the word spoken by Jesus. As if to teach the are one and the same commandments when they are not.

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Less creative writing -- more Bible details please.

listed said:

Is violating the law unrighteousness? If so keeping the law is righteousness. My righteousness comes thru Jesus. The law makes no one righteous.It's what comes out of the mouth that defiles, not what enters as Jesus point out. In-other-words it's not a sin for specifically for Gentiles to eat pork whether or not they claim Jesus as Savior.

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Way to completely take a passage about not ceremonially washing your hands before you eat making you unclean, out of context to try to use it as a license to do what God said NOT to do.

He is the creator and he makes the rules not us. He defined what is supposed to be food and what isnt LONG time ago.

Leviticus 11:2
2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying, ‘These are the animals which you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth:


There is no Jew vs Gentile rules!!
Exodus 12:49
49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.”
Leviticus 24:22
22 You shall have the same law for the stranger and for one from your own country; for I am the Lord your God.’”
Numbers 15:15-16
15 One ordinance shall be for you of the assembly and for the stranger who dwells with you, an ordinance forever throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the stranger be before the Lord. 16 One law and one custom shall be for you and for the stranger who dwells with you.’”

SAAN said:

There is no Jew vs Gentile rules!!

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The idea behind “One Law” theology, whether stated or implied, is that he who keeps the law given to Israel, therefore IS Israel. Accordingly, “One Law” theology is simply a form of replacement theology. By keeping the laws which are specific to Israel, one thereby presumes to be Israel. This incorrect desire to “keep Torah” in order to become Israel is a deception that dates back to the time of the Apostles. (1 Tim. 1:4, Titus 3:9).

“One Law” doctrine of the 21st century has been greatly popularized in recent years by the emergence of the Hebrew Roots movement. But it is important to point out that the Hebrew Roots movement and its accompanying legalistic doctrine is not something new. We find in Paul’s warning to Timothy, that in their time, too, there were Hebrew roots teachers who taught myths about Jewish genealogy and sought to promote themselves as expert Torah teachers, even though they had no idea what they were talking about. (1 Tim. 1:4-8). Paul describes the doctrine of such teachers as “meaningless talk.” He further describes them: “They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.” (1 Tim. 1:8)

The power of the One New Man is not in our relationship to the law, and not in our observance of ordinances or statutes; but, rather, in the fellowship that we enjoy as both Jew and Gentile, cleansed by the blood of Messiah, and immersed by One Spirit into the same body. Together we are the “seed of Abraham” by faith in the one God, and joint heirs of a Kingdom that will never fade.

One of, not one and the same. You don't become part of Israel by observing the law given Moses. You become part of the commonweath because of the work the Spirit did and does within you. One law doctrine puts replacement theology on it's head (but still the same, RT) by stating there is no Jew or Gentile in Messiah JUST JEWS. Thus making the One New Man about becoming Jewish by following the laws given Israel as ministered through Moses. No more Gentiles, just Jews observing the Jewish Laws. Yes, God's laws 'given Israel'. To stand on those verses above the way you do is to squint to make the image you see what you desire. One law doctrine basically means God gave the gentiles of the nations all the law given Moses. So the final outcome would be no more gentiles (those not given the Law).

One law for all the world......is not in my bible nor in the teaching the Spirit leads me in. One Spirit for all, One Lord of all, and one sacrifice for all IS what the Spirit testifies to, within scripture and within our hearts once he lives there. The Spirit was not given to return all under the covenant made with Israel at the mountain as ministered through Moses. The Spirit is given to unite all with God through Yeshua. United as one, dwelling as one, the law giver living within our very souls, leading and teaching all his ways. Having an intimate relationship with God through Messiah and the Spirit.

The law given Moses commanded all to know the Lord through his Law, his spoken Word. The law given through the Spirit commands all to know the Lord through the Spirit that lives within our hearts. Placing his word within us to lead us from there. Not from the written letter but from the Spirit inside. The law of the Spirit produces a life in union with Messiah. The law of sin and death does not produce this state of holiness, and never can. So why would the Spirit lead all back into a state of bondage that never can release us from our sins? No matter how much we observe the commands. Yet, when we observe the command to believe and receive we allow the work of God to accomplish in us the will of the creator. To live in a state of union with our Holy God. There is no law against this, because it is the command of God. That all who learn from Him come to Yeshua for life. Not the other way around. We don't come to life by following the commands given Moses.

Shimshon said:

The idea behind “One Law” theology, whether stated or implied, is that he who keeps the law given to Israel, therefore IS Israel. Accordingly, “One Law” theology is simply a form of replacement theology. By keeping the laws which are specific to Israel, one thereby presumes to be Israel. This incorrect desire to “keep Torah” in order to become Israel is a deception that dates back to the time of the Apostles. (1 Tim. 1:4, Titus 3:9).

“One Law” doctrine of the 21st century has been greatly popularized in recent years by the emergence of the Hebrew Roots movement. But it is important to point out that the Hebrew Roots movement and its accompanying legalistic doctrine is not something new. We find in Paul’s warning to Timothy, that in their time, too, there were Hebrew roots teachers who taught myths about Jewish genealogy and sought to promote themselves as expert Torah teachers, even though they had no idea what they were talking about. (1 Tim. 1:4-8). Paul describes the doctrine of such teachers as “meaningless talk.” He further describes them: “They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.” (1 Tim. 1:8)

The power of the One New Man is not in our relationship to the law, and not in our observance of ordinances or statutes; but, rather, in the fellowship that we enjoy as both Jew and Gentile, cleansed by the blood of Messiah, and immersed by One Spirit into the same body. Together we are the “seed of Abraham” by faith in the one God, and joint heirs of a Kingdom that will never fade.

One of, not one and the same. You don't become part of Israel by observing the law given Moses. You become part of the commonweath because of the work the Spirit did and does within you. One law doctrine puts replacement theology on it's head (but still the same, RT) by stating there is no Jew or Gentile in Messiah JUST JEWS. Thus making the One New Man about becoming Jewish by following the laws given Israel as ministered through Moses. No more Gentiles, just Jews observing the Jewish Laws. Yes, God's laws 'given Israel'. To stand on those verses above the way you do is to squint to make the image you see what you desire. One law doctrine basically means God gave the gentiles of the nations all the law given Moses. So the final outcome would be no more gentiles (those not given the Law).

One law for all the world......is not in my bible nor in the teaching the Spirit leads me in. One Spirit for all, One Lord of all, and one sacrifice for all IS what the Spirit testifies to, within scripture and within our hearts once he lives there. The Spirit was not given to return all under the covenant made with Israel at the mountain as ministered through Moses. The Spirit is given to unite all with God through Yeshua. United as one, dwelling as one, the law giver living within our very souls, leading and teaching all his ways. Having an intimate relationship with God through Messiah and the Spirit.

The law given Moses commanded all to know the Lord through his Law, his spoken Word. The law given through the Spirit commands all to know the Lord through the Spirit that lives within our hearts. Placing his word within us to lead us from there. Not from the written letter but from the Spirit inside. The law of the Spirit produces a life in union with Messiah. The law of sin and death does not produce this state of holiness, and never can. So why would the Spirit lead all back into a state of bondage that never can release us from our sins? No matter how much we observe the commands. Yet, when we observe the command to believe and receive we allow the work of God to accomplish in us the will of the creator. To live in a state of union with our Holy God. There is no law against this, because it is the command of God. That all who learn from Him come to Yeshua for life. Not the other way around. We don't come to life by following the commands given Moses.

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They are not Moses commands, they are Gods commands through Moses, just like Jesus didnt have new commands, but upheld his fathers commands and expanded on the meaning of many of them further. Not all of the law still applies, since the ceremonial part dealing with animal sacrifices were fulfilled and replaced with the blood of the Messiah for our sins.

Law of letter or law of Spirit are still based of Gods laws, in which he described as perfect in Psalms and Proverbs. There is no Jew commands because Jews are just 1 of the 12 tribes of Israel, this is why I saw there were no separate command for Jews vs Gentiles. You become a part of Israel when you accept the Messiah as your savior that died for your sins, as we are grafted into Israel and not the other way around.

There is ZERO examples anywhere in the bible in which you see Gods people eating unclean food or encouraging others to do so. The fact that peter never ate anything unclean and that was years after Jesus death, would mean they were still keeping the dietary laws and Peter should know, since he was by Jesus side, so if the dietary laws were canceled, im sure Jesus would have mentioned it to him and he would have passed it on. All one would have to do is just study the make up and functions of all the animals that God listed as unclean and its easy to see why he said dont eat them and they are not to be food for us.

This whole nonsense we have now of saying this/that doest apply to the gentiles, is why modern day Christianity is in a rut. Pick and choose what you like and condemn the world on what you dont and they wonder why homosexuals push back when you say homosexuality is wrong and quote Leviticus 18, while they push back and say what about Lev 11 in which you dont seem to follow or Lev 23.


The New Covenant was made with the Israel, NOT the gentiles, which meant an unbeliever back then. God made salvation available to the gentiles, as he told them to not see them as unclean, but they were still grafted in and didnt have a own set of rules they could follow.

listed said:

My righteousness comes thru Jesus. The law makes no one righteous.It's what comes out of the mouth that defiles, not what enters as Jesus point out. In-other-words it's not a sin for specifically for Gentiles to eat pork whether or not they claim Jesus as Savior.

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Since you are quoting Mark 7 -- do you actually "see" pork mentioned anywhere or is it "bread" that actually show up in the chapter.

Just wandering how you got from complaints about the disciples "eating bread" to your insert about "eating pork" in Mark 7.

This should be good.

"Do not take God's name in vain"

klutedavid said:

Hello Brakelite.

Don't need to mention that, because we are talking about the commandments given to Christians. .

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God's Word
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Notice - that in Romans 13 -- they are unchanged

Rom 13
he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Not because our duty toward God is deleted -- obviously.

The same list of Commandments that Christ quotes pre-cross in Matthew 19 where He says "keep the Commandments" and is asked "Which ones?" --

Is the same list Paul gives after the cross in Romans 13.

Hence Paul can say that the fifth commandment is "the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in Eph 6:2 and as such is still binding on Christians since it is in that highly honored "Unit of TEN"

BobRyan said:

"Do not take God's name in vain"



God's Word
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Matthew 19 - Jesus is asked "Which ones"
And the list He gives is very close to the same one Paul gives in Romans 13 -- for man's duty to man - as stated in "His Commandments"

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18

But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Notice - that in Romans 13 -- they are unchanged

Rom 13
he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


But He did NOT quote "do not take the Lord's name in vain" Ex 20:7 nor "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 in that Matthew 19 list (which of course is the "greatest commandment" according to Christ). So then nothing from the "first four" commandments dealing with our duty to God. Just the ones for our duty toward our neighbor.

Not because our duty toward God is deleted -- obviously.

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This is a very good thread. Many good observations from scripture. John 12:49 is very important to keep in mind. Jesus relayed to his followers what his heavenly Father gave him to speak. In turn, Jesus' disciples relayed everything their Master taught them. Yet, there are Christians today who claim that Jesus or one of the NT writers made an affirmation in one place and then changed it -- sometimes in the very next sentence. Why would a disciple of Jesus record something Jesus said if he'd told them, "oh, wait, scratch that." His words weren't recorded until after his crucifixion and ascension into Heaven. Likewise, if one of the NT writers realized a statement they made in a letter to the churches wasn't correct, why wouldn't they have scrapped the papyrus they were inscribing on and started over? They were instructed by Messiah what to speak; they didn't have the authority to change the Word of God at will. If any scripture seems contradictory, it's because we don't fully comprehend it. I acknowledge I don't have a full of understanding of the scriptures and am eager to learn more of God's will for His people.

At one time, I thought Jesus quoted only the commandments pertaining to our relations with other people to the rich young ruler because the man could say that he'd kept those commandments, while Jesus already knew his service to God was lacking. But reading it now, the opposite seems to be true. The man possessed wealth and a place of authority. Jesus told the man, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me” (Matthew 19:21). Jesus wanted the man to go beyond what the commandments required to share what he possessed in material wealth and knowledge of the gospel with his fellow man -- not out of duty but out of love. Jesus wasn't implying that the young ruler's love for his fellow man should supersede his love for God. When the lawyer asked Jesus, “which is the great commandment in the Law,” Jesus replied:


Paul's statement, "love is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:10) is the same idea. Luke also records Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) in response to the lawyer's question. The priest and Levite who passed the beaten man along the road connecting Jericho and Jerusalem were possibly on their way to Jerusalem to fulfill their priestly and levitical duties, or maybe were returning from performing their duties, but Jesus portrayed them negatively. On the other hand, Jesus upheld a Samaritan man (who were viewed very negatively by the Jews) as an example to follow because he showed mercy. The apostle John said:


Therefore, all ten commandments given to Moses are closely related. They cannot be obeyed by keeping strict ordinances, but must be lived out through love. Jesus described the Judgment Day as such:


41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’44Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:31-46)


My humble opinion.

BobRyan said:

The same list of Commandments that Christ quotes pre-cross in Matthew 19 where He says "keep the Commandments" and is asked "Which ones?" --

Is the same list Paul gives after the cross in Romans 13.

Hence Paul can say that the fifth commandment is "the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in Eph 6:2 and as such is still binding on Christians since it is in that highly honored "Unit of TEN"

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Hello Bob.

Your still quoting the letter, Jesus expanded this immensely.

“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20

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I have notified you before about this incorrect quoting.

You need to provide the expanded form of the law that Jesus spoke.

You keep giving the impression that people must obey the letter of the law. For example, 'You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20', which does not contain what Jesus said. You are very misleading.

Jesus said if you even look at a woman and lust after her, you have already committed adultery. That is the new commandment and does not look anything like Exodus 20.

You must also mention that Jesus said; marrying a divorced person is also committing adultery.

Also Bob, you do need to mention to people to not make oaths, which is what Jesus said.

All are commands above and include selling your possessions, following Jesus, e.t.c.

Why don't people quote Jesus and why do they quote the letter of the law?

The same list of Commandments that Christ quotes pre-cross in Matthew 19 where He says "keep the Commandments" and is asked "Which ones?" --

Is the same list Paul gives after the cross in Romans 13.

Hence Paul can say that the fifth commandment is "the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in Eph 6:2 and as such is still binding on Christians since it is in that highly honored "Unit of TEN"

klutedavid said:

Hello Bob.

Your still quoting the letter

Click to expand...

I assume by that you mean "scripture".

Paul is being quoted in Eph 6:2.

Christ's teaching in Matthew 19 the same as Paul's teaching in Romans 13.

is that a problem in your view?

The same list of Commandments that Christ quotes pre-cross in Matthew 19 where He says "keep the Commandments" and is asked "Which ones?" --

Is the same list Paul gives after the cross in Romans 13.

Hence Paul can say that the fifth commandment is "the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in Eph 6:2 and as such is still binding on Christians since it is in that highly honored "Unit of TEN"

klutedavid said:

I have notified you before about this incorrect quoting.

Click to expand...

I find your logic "illusive" just then. Which quote above are you referencing...???

BobRyan said:

The same list of Commandments that Christ quotes pre-cross in Matthew 19 where He says "keep the Commandments" and is asked "Which ones?" --

Is the same list Paul gives after the cross in Romans 13.

Hence Paul can say that the fifth commandment is "the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in Eph 6:2 and as such is still binding on Christians since it is in that highly honored "Unit of TEN"



I assume by that you mean "scripture".

Paul is being quoted in Eph 6:2.

Christ's teaching in Matthew 19 the same as Paul's teaching in Romans 13.

is that a problem in your view?

Click to expand...

The letter of the law is Exodus 20, for example; do not commit adultery. The greatly expanded form of the law is below.

Matthew 5:27-28
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

The letter of the law says you cannot physically commit adultery.

What Jesus spoke (Matthew 5) has to do with the inner man, even a lustful thought has broken the law.

There is an immense difference between these two commands.
Always quote Matthew 5 in future and avoid misleading people.

People will get the impression that all they have to obey is the law (Exodus 20). But we know from Matthew 5, that Jesus far exceeded the literal law of Exodus 20.

Once again, you cannot marry a divorced person as that is adultery. Do you see the difference Bob, between Exodus 20 and what Jesus said in Matthew 5?