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I would submit that it's going to be after the Tribulation on the day of atonement in the last Jubilee year.
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7th Trumpet Rapture?
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I would submit that it's going to be after the Tribulation on the day of atonement in the last Jubilee year.
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All that happens the same day not years later. They are fearful at first, then some are gathered as an army to try to fight against Christ but they are destroyed.
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That would be a faulty view since the scriptures don't support that. The second coming begins, all the vials are poured and Armageddon begins and ends and then the Millennium begins...all the same day. I might also re-state there is only one second coming, not two or more.
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What you think is the second coming of Revelation 14 is the rapture of the 12 tribes. We know this because the 144,000 .....12,000 from each tribe are the first fruits of the harvest. If the first fruits are pumpkins....the harvest will be pumpkins.
Secondly, all the vials are not poured out, Armageddon begins and ends and the millennium all in a 24 hour day.
Immediately after the tribulation the Revelation 14 harvest occurs.....not the second coming.
I might also restate there will be a pretribulation rapture of the church, the will be a prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes, there will be a remnant......the nation of Israel and there will be a second coming when we return on white horses.
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It will take a certain amount of time to gather all the armies of the world at Armageddon....at least 30 to 40 days in the best conditions.
The other problem if you think that the armies will be gathered in that day of the 6Th seal ... rather than some years later ---->is the Great WORLDWIDE Earthquake magnitude at least 8,9 to 9,5 who will have badly damaged the roads ... the airports ...the radar facility for air traffic control ....
An earthquake able to move all the mountains and islands even by some inches must cause very severe damage all around the world.
When the Great Worldwide Earthquake of the 6TH seal will happen the World will be under total shock ....in survival mode....time to rebuild....a new world system will emerge...the 10 Rulers/"Kings" of the new 10 Worldwide regions will begin to be put in place...
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You have been refuted in my post #94 and no amount of arguing is going to alter the proper interpretation of Dan.9:27, that the Antichrist is the one who will trigger the tribultion. Jesus will end it, as recorded in Rev.19:11-21. Show me anywhere in the Bible, where Israel has accepted the New Covenant. Keep in mind, the Church IS NOT Israel, nor will you find anything anywhere in the Bible that supports such a heresy.
Quasat92
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
Vinsight4u,
1. None of those scriptures have no connection to the time of Jacob’s trouble ending early such as Matthew 24:22.
2. The trumpet judgements are not in thirds. The 1st 4 are In succession and then the 5th and 6th are next.
Revelation 10 happens next which is a parenthetical.
Revelation 11 is a parenthetical in which the Abomination Of Desolation happens in the middle of the tribulation.
The Two Witnesses ministry is believed to be in the first part of the tribulation to the middle of the tribulation to protect the building of the temple the first 1260 days.
The second woe being past in the middle of the tribulation would show that the 7th Trumpet could not be the second coming being fulfilled at that time.
However, the Two Witnesses ministry seems to be the last 3.5 years.
The first half the Antichrist will have a 7 year treaty and will protect Israel and the building of the temple.
It is not until the AOD happens that the Two Witnesses are needed. This means they are killed and raised at the end of the tribulation.
The second woe is the Sixth trumpet and before the two witnesses come on the scene. Since Revelation 10-11:13 is parenthetical it doesn’t contradict verse 14 because the second woe is the Sixth trumpet which is in the middle of the tribulation.
3. The 7th trumpet angel is the third woe which happens in the middle of the tribulation and ends right before the Antichrist kingdom which is in the middle of the tribulation Revelation 13.
Revelation 11: 15-18 are prophetic to the end of the tribulation. Even the rewards for the saints in Heaven could be as late as the Marriage of the Lamb towards the end of the tribulation.
4. What the 7 thunders uttered was not recorded and is not known so you are just guessing.
5. The seals, trumpets and vials are consecutive and so the things contained in the sixth seal are not after the tribulation.
6. Revelation 7 is not a new vision but a parenthetical which is between the 6th and the 7th seals.
7. There is no mercy for the beast worshippers.
8. Your assessment of 15:1 makes no sense.
9. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 is about the rapture not the second coming.
10. Luke 14:14; those who can help the less fortunate will be rewarded at the resurrection of the just between the rapture and the second advent in Heaven. 2 Timothy 4:14; works both good and bad 1 Corinthians 3:11-15; 2 Corinthians 5:10.
11. Revelation 11:15 will be fulfilled at the second advent as far as the kingdom of the world’s becoming Christ.
When the 7th trump sounds in the middle of the tribulation is just the angels and great voices were in Heaven.
There is no trumpet sounding at the Battle of Armageddon in Revelation 16:16-17.
Because of the significance of trumpets with the Jews doesn’t mean there won’t be a trumpet blowing but it will not be fulfilled in the 7th trumpet of 11:15 in the middle of the tribulation. Jerry Kelso
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It won't take that long at all especially when you consider miracles will be done that day as it is written.
You also forget that a path will be made for them so none of the above is an issue at all.
An earthquake able to move all the mountains and islands even by some inches must cause very severe damage all around the world.
All of that happened 42 months before the events found in the 6th seal occur. Your understanding of Rev events is clearly vastly different than mine so all I can do is explain how I see it and hope it reaches someone.
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To gather all the armies of the World with their tanks ...missiles ...in ONE day for the Armageddon Battle [as you claim]--->need a miracle effectively.
The Euphrate will be dried...>Very practical for the armies residing in that area ...
You can start by showing us side by side how the Events described in the 7 Seals [Revelation 6] have anything to do with the Events described in the 7 Trumpets Revelation 8 ...Revelation 9.... and how they can also relate to the 7 Vials of the Wrath of God [Revelation 16] ----->Good Luck!
-Example show us that the First Seal ----Concern the same event that the First Trumpet and the First Vial.
-Do that also for the Second Seal...The Second Trumpet And the Second Vial.
Repeat the same exercise until you reach the 7 Th SEAL ...7 TH TRumpet...7 Th Vial.
Hint you will realize that they are ALL different events happening in different period of time ...And you will also realize that it is impossible for all of that to happen only in 42 months.
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I guess it's good that there are miracles worked that day.
As for the seals, they are not showing chronological events. They show us a preview of the trumps. 6th seals shows 7th trump events. The trumps are in chronological order but the seals are not. If they were, then the 6th seal wouldn't show the second coming which happens in the 7th trump.
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Look carefully ...there is no Coming of Jesus mentioned at the 6 TH SEAL... What they see is GOD SITTING ON HIS THRONE IN HEAVEN.
Revelation 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and the chief captains, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman and freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?
Also The description of where they are at the 6 Th Seal prove that these Kings and Captains and all the other people are not in the VALLEY OF MEGIDDO...
VALLEY OF MEGIDDO - Yahoo Image Search Results
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Those that have something to say about Christ, are able to rephrase.
Those that do not have anything about Christ (to say), are able to restrain.
Between these two, whatever needs to be said can (be said) - but there is no way to speak against Him.
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There is actually:
"and from the wrath of the Lamb"
That isn't a wrathful email or something...it's his actual and personal wrath against the unsaved when he returns.
Rev_6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The great day of his wrath!
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Same day Brother.
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All different Judgments ....If you think all is finished with the Judgment of the DEAD mentioned at the 7TH Trumpet Revelation 11:15-18--->look at Revelation 14:6-12 about the Judgment of Those who will STILL be alive on the Earth...
Revelation 14:6-12
6 And I saw another angel flying in mid heaven, having the everlasting Gospel to proclaim unto them that dwell on the earth, and unto every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he saith with a great voice, Fear God, and give him glory; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.
8 And another, a second angel, followed, saying, Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, that hath made all the nations to drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, 10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
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Hmm... No rapture? I fail to see how we're to remain on earth during the violent testing like the seismic activity and the sun burning people. Perhaps we would be given our resurrected bodies to survive? But then again, Rev. 3:10 comes to mind. "...I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world..."
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Because we have the return of Christ at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19, we know the book is not in chronological order.
Instead it is a series is overlapping visions.
Which of the following verses show more than one judgment of the dead?
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, (How long is an hour and how many is all?)
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
2Pe_2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe_3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
1Jn_4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Rev_14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. (See the word "hour" in John 5:28)
Rev_17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev_18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
(See the word "hour" in John 5:28.)
The word "judgments" is not used in any of the verses above, when referring to the judgment of the dead.
Can you give any examples in the Book of Revelation where the word "judgment" is used in a plural manner, when clearly making reference to the judgment of the dead?
There will be at least two judgments when He returns, but one will be of the living found described in Matthew 25:31-46, and the other is the judgment of the dead found described in John 5:27-30.
Act_10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
2Ti_4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
1Pe_4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
.
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