liberal approaches to homosexuality and transgender

Joe 73 · Jan 15, 2018

hengesthorsa said:
Indeed, some do...but just having sex does not mean that you have a reciprocal sexual relationship. As in, mutually fulfilling, etc. It seems to me that that is exactly why so many men who are married with children later "switch" - because they were miserable, and if you're miserable, your partner can feel it.

I'm not saying it's impossible for gay men to have sex with women, of course.

While I think its a possibilty for most gay men to be married in the future, it is not without complications. I wouldn't marry someone if I didn't have any sexual attraction to them. There is a danger going into a marriage assuming it will just fix your struggles with homosexuality, it won't. You definately need some resolution of that. But provided you've gotten a reasonable grip on those problems, and know how to continue supporting your emotional needs, its not an impossibility. The difference is, homosexuality is a sin, which wounds your soul. your soul shouldn't be attracted to it, but scared of it. marriage is not. Even if ones immediate feelings betray that reality, deeper down one can recognize the difference. It just doesn't work both ways. also it would be important for ones spouse to know about dealings with homosexual attractions before entering a marriage.
I guess you could argue that these people are no longer gay, because they developed feelings for someone of the opposite sex. But sometimes its just one person.

Joe 73 · Jan 15, 2018

SkyWriting said:
From children, yes.

Likewise, men are d

SkyWriting said:
I'm so glad your covering this point. When scripture was written there were no same-sex marriages performed by the community. As a result of this, all same sex couples were not married. And since
sex outside of marriage is verboten by God, then this extended to all gay couples even though
fidelity is asked of all people.

This is a convenient theory, but what evidence suggests this? In the context of the scripture it seems like the problem is the fact that its a man with a man, not that they aren't married. I think its the old testament, but it doesn't even bring up marriage, it just brings up the fact that men were lusting eachother like women. The bible doesn't really support the view that a homosexual marriage can be a thing.

SkyWriting · Jan 16, 2018

hengesthorsa said:
Indeed, some do...but just having sex does not mean that you have a reciprocal sexual relationship. As in, mutually fulfilling, etc. It seems to me that that is exactly why so many men who are married with children later "switch" - because they were miserable, and if you're miserable, your partner can feel it.

I'm not saying it's impossible for gay men to have sex with women, of course.

Being attracted to the same sex doesn't mean your not attracted to the opposite sex either.
My gay ex-girlfriend thinks only about men as mates. One girl was the exception.

archer75 · Jan 16, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Being attracted to the same sex doesn't mean your not attracted to the opposite sex either.
My gay ex-girlfriend thinks only about men as mates. One girl was the exception.

I think there's a miscommunication happening here.

I thought "gay" usually meant "people attracted mostly or only to their own sex".

Along those lines - in popular parlance, as I understand it, a woman mostly attracted to men with exactly one exception wouldn't be considered "gay".

So what I meant was "people attracted only to their own sex, entering into a marriage with a person of the opposite sex, may be misleading their spouse by letting them think this will involve a reciprocal sexual relationship."

SkyWriting · Jan 17, 2018

hengesthorsa said:
So what I meant was "people attracted only to their own sex, entering into a marriage with a person of the opposite sex, may be misleading their spouse by letting them think this will involve a reciprocal sexual relationship."

But the misleading label applies to every kind of relationship, ever.
There is no point in pointing fingers at any pet peeve groups.
I happen to know what men want for sex and have not yet
figured that out for women after decades of study.
No equality there.

archer75 · Jan 18, 2018

SkyWriting said:
But the misleading label applies to every kind of relationship, ever.
There is no point in pointing fingers at any pet peeve groups.
I happen to know what men want for sex and have not yet
figured that out for women after decades of study.
No equality there.

I'm not sure what pet peeve groups you mean, or who I was pointing fingers at. And what is the misleading label?

SkyWriting · Jan 18, 2018

So what I meant was "people attracted only to their own sex, entering into a marriage with a person of the opposite sex, may be misleading their spouse by letting them think this will involve a reciprocal sexual relationship."

hengesthorsa said:
I'm not sure what pet peeve groups you mean, or who I was pointing fingers at. And what is the misleading label?

Most everyone ends up with sex life that is a mismatch from their desires.
That doesn't mean it's misleading to not get what you expected.

archer75 · Jan 18, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Most everyone ends up with sex life that is a mismatch from their desires.
That doesn't mean it's misleading to not get what you expected.

I don't know what statistics you're referring to there.

And I think if you enter into an agreement with someone and they mislead you about their ability or intent to hold up their end of it...then it is misleading.

SkyWriting · Jan 18, 2018

hengesthorsa said:
I don't know what statistics you're referring to there.

New Survey: Most Women Are NOT Satisfied With Their Sex Lives
Study: Both Men and Women Unhappy about Sex Lives

hengesthorsa said:
And I think if you enter into an agreement with someone and they mislead you about their ability or intent to hold up their end of it...then it is misleading.

So either this is common, or over half of couples
are having problems are due to a gay partner being misleading.

archer75 · Jan 18, 2018

SkyWriting said:
New Survey: Most Women Are NOT Satisfied With Their Sex Lives
Study: Both Men and Women Unhappy about Sex Lives

So either this is common, or over half of couples
are having problems are due to a gay partner being misleading.

I didn't say that one partner being gay was the only source of dissatisfaction in a marriage.

archer75 · Jan 18, 2018

SkyWriting said:
New Survey: Most Women Are NOT Satisfied With Their Sex Lives
Study: Both Men and Women Unhappy about Sex Lives

So either this is common, or over half of couples
are having problems are due to a gay partner being misleading.

Further, if someone is unhappy or unsatisfied, that doesn't mean they were misled by their partner at the beginning.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Do you mean to suggest that if many people are unhappy, then lying is okay?

SkyWriting · Jan 18, 2018

hengesthorsa said:
Further, if someone is unhappy or unsatisfied, that doesn't mean they were misled by their partner at the beginning.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Do you mean to suggest that if many people are unhappy, then lying is okay?

I've never considered that lying was ok for me.
But I have no judgment on others who do it.
I can't see inside the heads of other people
and know why they do what they do.
What Does the Bible Say About Judging Others? - OpenBible.info

SkyWriting · Jan 19, 2018

hedrick said:
On homosexuality: there are surely prohibitions of same-gender sex (though the OT prohibition is probably only for males).

Given that the OT does not speak out on Lesbians,
then the coverage of the topic is actually visible,
flagrant, promiscuity and lack of commitment.
Not sexual preference. If the problem was same
sex relationships, then women would have been
mentioned along with men, or the command would
have been gender neutral.

SkyWriting · Jan 19, 2018

hedrick said:
There are plenty of cases where for good reasons we change people from how God made them. We treat birth defects. We amputate parts of the body when survival is at risk. God ordained suffering for childbirth as a punishment, but we deal with it with pain killers or anesthesia.

But we only use very good reasons to alter people from how they are born or develop.
Morally, we do not interfere unless ones health is in peril.

archer75 · Jan 19, 2018

SkyWriting said:
Given that the OT does not speak out on Lesbians,
then the coverage of the topic is actually visible,
flagrant, promiscuity and lack of commitment.
Not sexual preference. If the problem was same
sex relationships, then women would have been
mentioned along with men, or the command would
have been gender neutral.

I didn't quite follow here.

SkyWriting · Jan 19, 2018

hengesthorsa said:
I didn't quite follow here.

Lesbians didn't have orgies, men did.
It's a hormone thing.
So men were called out for their parties
of sex including other men.

The problem is sex outide of marriage
not sexual orientation.

SkyWriting · Jan 20, 2018

Joe 73 said:
The difference is, homosexuality is a sin, which wounds your soul. your soul shouldn't be attracted to it, but scared of it.

The problem is sex outside of marriage, not sexual orientation.

SkyWriting · Jan 20, 2018

hedrick said:
I maintain that homosexuality is in a sense a disability, one that Paul didn’t know about.

There really is no data to support that. Our "Most Trusted Public Official" is Tammy Baldwin
who was blasted by conservatives, but now embraced by all residents and re-elected easily.

hedrick · Jan 29, 2018

SkyWriting said:
There really is no data to support that. Our "Most Trusted Public Official" is Tammy Baldwin
who was blasted by conservatives, but now embraced by all residents and re-elected easily.

Perhaps disability wasn't the right term to use. I've changed the post to speak of it as an exception. But both Genesis, and Jesus' use of it, do speak of marriage between a man and woman as being in some sense normal. But the Bible has accepted variations, including celibacy and polygamy. Jesus always saw the good of people as coming before law. (See Mark 2:23 ff for an example.) So I don't see any reason we shouldn't accept exceptions here.

SkyWriting · Jan 29, 2018

hedrick said:
Perhaps disability wasn't the right term to use. I've changed the post to speak of it as an exception. But both Genesis, and Jesus' use of it, do speak of marriage between a man and woman as being in some sense normal. But the Bible has accepted variations, including celibacy and polygamy. Jesus always saw the good of people as coming before law. (See Mark 2:23 ff for an example.) So I don't see any reason we shouldn't accept exceptions here.

What Does the Bible Say About All Our Overtly or Hidden Gay Neighbors? - OpenBible.info

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