LDS ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!

Randy777 said:

Sounds carnal (of the flesh) to me. Celestial marriage.

That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24“Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

29Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’b ? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

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The theology holds that such matters will be determined before the resurrection, making things square.

mmksparbud said:

But you do not believe that God was never human. You still believe that Jesus was flesh and bone before the incarnation---so NOOOOOOOO---you are not Ok with the bible and the Holy Spirit---believing in a half truth is not truth, it is half a lie.

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Jesus was not flesh and bone before his incarnation. Jesus was spirit only before his incarnation. When he was born of mortal Mary, his pre-incarnation spirit was put into his mortal body and he became a living soul, now, just like Adam.

Ironhold said:

How... does that even flow from the concept that everyone was together in Heaven before we came to Earth?

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That's what I'd like to know. We were all happy up there--though apparently too stupid to stay there and needed to come down here to get an education. So Hitler was a good little god before he came down here. The earth is not good for our intelligence.

Peter1000 said:

Jesus was not flesh and bone before his incarnation. Jesus was spirit only before his incarnation. When he was born of mortal Mary, his pre-incarnation spirit was put into his mortal body and he became a living soul, now, just like Adam.

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OK--then so is God---just like Jesus said---God is spirit.

Ironhold said:

The theology holds that such matters will be determined before the resurrection, making things square.

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No marriage or people given in marriage at the resurrection means your theology doesn't hold for marriage for a people like the angels of God. reread teh questions that asked Jesus -whose wife is

Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?
Jesus:At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage
In others words she wasn't anyones wife as she will be like the angels of God. - No marriage then exists.

Your theology doesn't hold to Christ Jesus's teaching.

Phoebe Ann said:

Jesus is fully God and fully man. Is that not true? I believe it because God's word says it is true. I had to look that up. The Father has no physical body.

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If God the Father and Jesus Christ and the HS are 1 God, then Their make up has to be flesh and bone and spirit, because that is the make up of Jesus at this time and for eternity. That's what the bible says.

If they are inseparable, consubstantial, and made of the same substance, (which by the way is not biblical, but Nicean Trinity doctrine) then Their same substance has to be flesh and bone and spirit. Not just spirit.

I answered your question. Please answer mine.

If the Father is a god, and the Son is a god, and the Holy Ghost is a god, and there is a goddess mother, then what is God saying in Isa.43:10, 44:8, and 45:5?

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He is saying that there is only 1 God. He just does not get into the complications of explaining the Trinity doctrine or the Mormon doctrine to them. Both doctrines believe They are 1 God. The make up of the Godhead is different in Mormonism than Trinity, but it ends up being exactly the same, because in reality They are 1 God, no matter how you try to define Them.
There is little information about Heavenly Mother, except that she exists. From what we know, it does not appear that she is part of the Godhead of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the HS.
It is not like the Catholics, and other Christian religions who pray to Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Now that I have answered your question, you still need to reconcile
Mathew 3:16-17, Acts 7:56 and Revelations 4 with your belief system of 1 God. Thank you.

Phoebe Ann said:

You aren't okay if you believe in multiple gods.

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I do believe that Jesus is fully God, that is the question. To answer your next question, I believe that God the Father is fully God? I also believe that the HS is fully God?

Do you believe that God the Father is fully God? Do you believe that Jesus is fully God? Do you believe that the HS is fully God?

Peter1000 said:

If God the Father and Jesus Christ and the HS are 1 God, then Their make up has to be flesh and bone and spirit, because that is the make up of Jesus at this time and for eternity. That's what the bible says.

If they are inseparable, consubstantial, and made of the same substance, (which by the way is not biblical, but Nicean Trinity doctrine) then Their same substance has to be flesh and bone and spirit. Not just spirit.



He is saying that there is only 1 God. He just does not get into the complications of explaining the Trinity doctrine or the Mormon doctrine to them. Both doctrines believe They are 1 God. The make up of the Godhead is different in Mormonism than Trinity, but it ends up being exactly the same, because in reality They are 1 God, no matter how you try to define Them.
There is little information about Heavenly Mother, except that she exists. From what we know, it does not appear that she is part of the Godhead of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the HS.
It is not like the Catholics, and other Christian religions who pray to Mary, the mother of Jesus.

Now that I have answered your question, you still need to reconcile
Mathew 3:16-17, Acts 7:56 and Revelations 4 with your belief system of 1 God. Thank you.

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Can I ask you this:
If God and Jesus were both spirit--no flesh and bone before the incarnation---and Jesus acquired His flesh and bone with incarnation---How did God the Father get His flesh and bone---did Jesus throw Him an handful or something? It just magically appeared and why?

Peter1000 said:

No, my God is not different from your God, but we do assign him different qualities.

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Which makes him a different god. You can't claim you assign him different qualities and then say he is the same god.

Peter1000 said:

For instance, you say there is no where God is not. But you failed to find a scripture that states that God is speaking to 2 prophets or groups at 2 different locations at exactly the same time.

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Scripture has been provided and is not dependant upon your conditions for proof.

Peter1000 said:

Therefore if scripture does not have such an example, then I am thinking that although God is everywhere it would be in a metaphorical way, and is as I say, God's power and influence and light permeates every inch of space, but His person can only be in 1 place at a time.

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Fortunately, your man made limitations and lack of understanding do not apply to God.

Peter1000 said:

You need to prove me wrong with the example that I gave you above.

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I need to do no such thing. I have provided Scripture that says God is everywhere. It is you who needs to wrestle with that and determine if the Bible is correct or if you are. Both cannot be true.

mmksparbud said:

OK--then so is God---just like Jesus said---God is spirit.

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OK, you have 1/2 the story right. At one time, in Jesus's pre-mortal life, when Jesus had God status, but was not fully God, he and his God, God the Father were not made of the same substance. That is why Jesus was not fully God.

Jesus's incarnation gave him a body of flesh and bone, just like his Father, but until he was resurrected with a perfect indistructable body of flesh and bone and spirit he was not made of the same substance as his God and Father.

When he was resurrected, then he finally took upon himself all the attributes of his God and Father and became just like Him in all ways. He now was made of the same substance and was fully God. See how that works?

If you are a believer in the 1 God Trinity theory, you have to confess that this 1 God is made up of flesh and bone and spirit. That is because we know that 1 of Them (Jesus Christ) is flesh and bone and spirit. If the theory is right, and They are truly inseparable, consubstantial, and made of the same substance (which BTW is unbiblical) then that substance has to be flesh and bone and spirit.
There is no other way it can be.

Peter1000 said:

OK, you have 1/2 the story right. At one time, in Jesus's pre-mortal life, when Jesus had God status, but was not fully God, he and his God, God the Father were not made of the same substance. That is why Jesus was not fully God.

Jesus's incarnation gave him a body of flesh and bone, just like his Father, but until he was resurrected with a perfect indistructable body of flesh and bone and spirit he was not made of the same substance as his God and Father.

When he was resurrected, then he finally took upon himself all the attributes of his God and Father and became just like Him in all ways. He now was made of the same substance and was fully God. See how that works?

If you are a believer in the 1 God Trinity theory, you have to confess that this 1 God is made up of flesh and bone and spirit. That is because we know that 1 of Them (Jesus Christ) is flesh and bone and spirit. If the theory is right, and They are truly inseparable, consubstantial, and made of the same substance (which BTW is unbiblical) then that substance has to be flesh and bone and spirit.
There is no other way it can be.

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Well---You have 1/2 the story right. At no time was Jesus never God---He was always one with God. God the Father was never human and never had flesh and bone. This as all why you are not Christians and do indeed serve another God, another Jesus. Jesus and God were the same before the incarnation. The incarnation brought Jesus DOWN to the level of human, which is lower than the angels.

Psa_8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Heb_2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The angels are of a higher order than us. And you think God the Father is made lower than the angels??? Don't think so. It was Jesus that made everything. This is where you can really see the lust for power of JS. He wants to achieve what can never be achieved---Godhood. And the only way to do that is to bring God down. You bring Him down to a lower level and then maybe you can be god too. Jesus created the angels---Lucifer was a created being. God was never flesh and bone. Jesus gave up more than His life for us, He gave up being of that totally same substance as God, He is now half human and always will be. He lowered Himself to our level for all eternity out of love. And JS has the effrontery to then bring God down to flesh and bone and to say that only now is Jesus the same as His Father--flesh and bone. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. JS not only brings God down to a lower level, he also denies the great sacrifice that Jesus made, which was not only at the cross---He gave up His total sameness with God. That is a supreme sacrifice that JS twists around to make it that it is only now, with His resurrected body, that He is fully God. That is a horrible lie, a horrible diminishing of both God and Jesus. Can you not even try to imagine the great sacrifice of Jesus to make Himself lower than His own creations, out of love for those creations? We can attain to 1/2 of what Jesus attained in His resurrection, for He was God before His incarnation and retains that divinity. We never had it, and can not obtain it. It is not obtainable. God is God--because He is God and always was, not because He worked His way into being one. And we will never work our way into being one either.

BigDaddy4 said:

Which makes him a different god. You can't claim you assign him different qualities and then say he is the same god.

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There is truly only 1 God. We both assign qualities to Him. 1 of us is wrong and we will not find out about which one is wrong until we go to the other side.

Scripture has been provided and is not dependant upon your conditions for proof.

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You have not, nor can you provide a scripture that show God conversing with 2 people in 2 separate locations at exactly the same time. So to cover yourself, you provided scriptures that support God is everywhere. I say that is more metaprhorical than you wish to believe. I believe God is in 1 place at 1 time, but that His power and authority and light permeate the immensity of space. This concept is supported by scripture.

For instance lets take this sighting:
Exodus 24:9-10King James Version (KJV)
9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

This scripture says that God is showing Himself to the 74 persons on Mt. Sinai.

Are you saying that at that exact moment, this same God could also be showing Himself to another group of people half way around the world or even 500 miles away?

There is no evidence that this is the case. In fact when Jesus prayed to his God, he said, "Our Father, who art in heaven". Was Jesus joking about that, because if his Father and God were everywhere, wouldn't Jesus have said, "Our Father who art everywhere", but he did not.

When Jesus ascended after his resurrection, what did he tell Mary:
John 20:17King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So I can come to a comfortable belief that if Jesus's God was everywhere, he would not have used this kind of verbiage with Mary. His God would be next to Him and unnecessary to ascende to him in heaven.

Now if you believe like Mormons believe, then these scriptures make pure sense. Jesus is on earth and his God is in heaven. Separate and distinct.
When Jesus ascended it is perfectly sound for him to say, I ascend to my Father and God. Again Jesus on earth getting ready to ascend to his God in heaven. Separate and distinct.

Again, God was in heaven when Jesus was on the earth. Even so God's power and authority and light is felt in all the universe, but his person is still in heaven and sitting on his throne as John saw him in Revelations 4.

Fortunately, your man made limitations and lack of understanding do not apply to God.

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Fortunately, our man saw the 2 in front of him and he conversed with Them. The scriptures support the limitations. For instance, when Jesus was on the earth, there is never an occasion that the scriptures record that he was in 2 places at exactly the same time. Try to find one. If he is God as you profess, and God is everywhere, then Jesus was everywhere, but the scriptures do not give evidence of such behavior.

I need to do no such thing. I have provided Scripture that says God is everywhere. It is you who needs to wrestle with that and determine if the Bible is correct or if you are. Both cannot be true.

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You have not provided any scripture that supports God is everywhere except in a metaphoric way. No scriptures that shows God speaking to a prophet or group of people in Sinai, and another prophet or group of people in Rome at exactly the same time. Nor have you shown that Jesus was in more than 1 place at a time?

Phoebe Ann said:

There is no such thing as God status.

status: the relative social, professional, or other standing of someone or something.

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That would go under 'other' standing of someone. Not too many gods.

Phoebe Ann said:

The Mormon idea of "Holy Ghost" is a separate personage of spirit without a mortal body and without a glorified body. His spirit occupies space just as a man does.

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Not quite. The HS has a body of spirit which is matter, but very fine matter. Fine enough that the HS can be in the body of a flesh and blood man and they would be sharing the same place in time and space.

It is true that the HS can only be in 1 place at a time in time and space.

So tell me how can the HS be witnessing to 200,000 people at exactly the same time, all over the world?

Peter1000 said:

Not quite. The HS has a body of spirit which is matter, but very fine matter. Fine enough that the HS can be in the body of a flesh and blood man and they would be sharing the same place in time and space.

It is true that the HS can only be in 1 place at a time in time and space.

So tell me how can the HS be witnessing to 200,000 people at exactly the same time, all over the world?

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Since it's your opinion that the Holy Spirit can only be in one place at a time, then it should be up to you to answer your question. We have no need to explain that because we do not believe the Holy Spirit can only be in one place at a time.

mmksparbud said:

You can't let go of JS long enough to get that God and Jesus were one substance--they no longer are as Jesus became fully human and retains that humanity still. He is still fully divine. JS is not of God. God the Father was never flesh and bone--never will be---Jesus is both. You think about it.

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Jesus can do nothing of himself. Jesus only does those things that he sees his Father do. If Jesus has a body of flesh and bone, so must the Father. Again, Jesus only does those things that he sees his Father do. If Jesus was resurrected and now has a body of flesh and bone, the Father must have gone through the same resurrection process and has the same kind of body as Jesus.

It is scripture, not JS.[/QUOTE]