If Jesus died for the whole world why isn't the whole world saved?

Neostarwcc

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For most of my Christian walk I believed that Jesus died for the elect a.k.a his sheep as said in John 10:7, John 10:11, , John 10:15, and John 10:26. Also in John 17 in Jesus's prayer to the Father he talks about saving the sheep and not the whole world. But there are other verses in the bible that begin to bother me like 1 John 2:2 where it says:

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

and John 3:16-17 where it says

" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

Well if Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why doesn't everyone go to be with Jesus when they die? Why is it only the elect that enter heaven? It makes more sense that Jesus died for all who he foreknew would come to him to salvation doesn't it? Only Jesus's sheep are saved in the long run all others are not. All Christians can agree on this. So, why die for the whole world when the whole world can't be saved? Only those who come to Jesus for salvation can be saved and God knew ahead of time who would and who wouldn't come to Jesus for salvation so it makes the most amount of sense that Jesus died for his sheep doesn't it? After all, why would Jesus say in most of John 10 "I die for my sheep" if he didn't die for his sheep?. So, I don't understand it. If it is the truth that Jesus died for the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why do people still go to hell and why are only Jesus's sheep saved? It doesn't make any sense to me. Not at all. That sounds a lot more unfair to me personally then to say that Jesus died for everyone who he foreknew would come to him for salvation. I mean, that doesn't say that Jesus chose people for hell it says that Jesus chose every single person on the Earth that could possibly be saved.

I mean, predestination is something taught in Ephesians 1:4 and 1 Peter 1:20. So, why does some parts of the Bible seem to teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world? The bible can't contradict itself can it?
 

Randy777

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For most of my Christian walk I believed that Jesus died for the elect a.k.a his sheep as said in John 10:7, John 10:11, , John 10:15, and John 10:26. Also in John 17 in Jesus's prayer to the Father he talks about saving the sheep and not the whole world. But there are other verses in the bible that begin to bother me like 1 John 2:2 where it says:

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

and John 3:16-17 where it says

" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

Well if Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why doesn't everyone go to be with Jesus when they die? Why is it only the elect that enter heaven? It makes more sense that Jesus died for all who he foreknew would come to him to salvation doesn't it? Only Jesus's sheep are saved in the long run all others are not. All Christians can agree on this. So, why die for the whole world when the whole world can't be saved? Only those who come to Jesus for salvation can be saved and God knew ahead of time who would and who wouldn't come to Jesus for salvation so it makes the most amount of sense that Jesus died for his sheep doesn't it? After all, why would Jesus say in most of John 10 "I die for my sheep" if he didn't die for his sheep?. So, I don't understand it. If it is the truth that Jesus died for the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why do people still go to hell and why are only Jesus's sheep saved? It doesn't make any sense to me. Not at all. That sounds a lot more unfair to me personally then to say that Jesus died for everyone who he foreknew would come to him for salvation. I mean, that doesn't say that Jesus chose people for hell it says that Jesus chose every single person on the Earth that could possibly be saved.

I mean, predestination is something taught in Ephesians 1:4 and 1 Peter 1:20. So, why does some parts of the Bible seem to teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world? The bible can't contradict itself can it?
All in =>or, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Many are invited but few are chosen.
Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2“The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4“Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business.6The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8“Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.

13“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
 
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Tree of Life

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When John says in his first letter that Jesus died "not only for our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world" he does not mean every individual. Rather, he means people from all around the world and people in every nation. There's a nice parallel in John's gospel which demonstrates that this is his meaning:

John 11:51-52 - 51 He (Caiaphas) did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.

This means "not for Jews only, but also for people from every nation." It clearly does not mean every individual who has ever lived. The meaning is the same in 1 John.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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HE gave us free choice to not be saved if we so choose by disobedience

Remember Eve, she sinned through disobedience

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Notice IF, indicating some will not Love

How to Love is spelled out, Obedience

Opposite is true, to not love is disobedience
 
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A_Thinker

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For most of my Christian walk I believed that Jesus died for the elect a.k.a his sheep as said in John 10:7, John 10:11, , John 10:15, and John 10:26. Also in John 17 in Jesus's prayer to the Father he talks about saving the sheep and not the whole world. But there are other verses in the bible that begin to bother me like 1 John 2:2 where it says:

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

and John 3:16-17 where it says

" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

Well if Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why doesn't everyone go to be with Jesus when they die? Why is it only the elect that enter heaven? It makes more sense that Jesus died for all who he foreknew would come to him to salvation doesn't it? Only Jesus's sheep are saved in the long run all others are not. All Christians can agree on this. So, why die for the whole world when the whole world can't be saved? Only those who come to Jesus for salvation can be saved and God knew ahead of time who would and who wouldn't come to Jesus for salvation so it makes the most amount of sense that Jesus died for his sheep doesn't it? After all, why would Jesus say in most of John 10 "I die for my sheep" if he didn't die for his sheep?. So, I don't understand it. If it is the truth that Jesus died for the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why do people still go to hell and why are only Jesus's sheep saved? It doesn't make any sense to me. Not at all. That sounds a lot more unfair to me personally then to say that Jesus died for everyone who he foreknew would come to him for salvation. I mean, that doesn't say that Jesus chose people for hell it says that Jesus chose every single person on the Earth that could possibly be saved.

I mean, predestination is something taught in Ephesians 1:4 and 1 Peter 1:20. So, why does some parts of the Bible seem to teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world? The bible can't contradict itself can it?

Jesus did die for the sins of the world, but not ALL persons take advantage of His sacrifice.

You can think of like a coupon. A coupon is typically available to "everyone", yet the benefit of the coupon is only gained by those which actually "use" the coupon.

A Biblical example is that of the rich man who prepared a sumptious feast, and, ultimately, invited ALL to come and partake. The feast was, obviously, meant to benefit ALL who might come, ... and ONLY benefits those who come.
 
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Neostarwcc

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When John says in his first letter that Jesus died "not only for our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world" he does not mean every individual. Rather, he means people from all around the world and people in every nation. There's a nice parallel in John's gospel which demonstrates that this is his meaning:

John 11:51-52 - 51 He (Caiaphas) did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.

This means "not for Jews only, but also for people from every nation." It clearly does not mean every individual who has ever lived. The meaning is the same in 1 John.

That's what I was thinking. Because it makes no sense to say that Jesus died for the sins whole world and then in the next sentence say "But not the whole world will get to be with Jesus". Because in the end, Jesus's sheep are the ones saved not the whole world. John could have meant that Jesus died for people across the world and not just for the Jews or people who would expect Jesus to die for them. EVERYONE who will believe in Jesus WILL be saved.
 
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Rubiks

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Because salvation requires a human response to believe and repent.

The idea that Jesus' death on the cross is the only prerequisite for salvation seems to be limited to more fringe varieties of Calvinism. Historic Calvinism affirmed hypothetical universalism -- that anyone can believe and receive salvation, elect or not.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Because salvation requires a human response to believe and repent.

The idea that Jesus' death on the cross is the only prerequisite for salvation seems to be limited to more fringe varieties of Calvinism. Historic Calvinism affirmed hypothetical universalism -- that anyone can believe and receive salvation, elect or not.

Right, anyone can believe and receive salvation. I agree with you. Salvation is offered to all who will believe and God knows who will and will not believe over the course of their life. So obviously God chose those people. You are chosen by God, I am chosen by God, everyone who has ever and will ever believe has been chosen by God. God didn't choose people for hell he just merely chose everyone who would ever believe in him.
 
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A_Thinker

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That's what I was thinking. Because it makes no sense to say that Jesus died for the sins whole world and then in the next sentence say "But not the whole world will get to be with Jesus". Because in the end, Jesus's sheep are the ones saved not the whole world.

This ignores a great deal of Biblical language.

For instance, ...

1 Timothy 4:10 “We have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.”

2 Peter 3:9 "God is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

I think of the example of the "manna" which fell for every Israelite, ... whether they opted to gather their share or not.

God is a God of sufficiency and OVERABUNDANCE, so that none can say that PROVISION was not made for them. PROVISION is made for ALL, though not ALL take advantage of His PROVISION.
 
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sdowney717

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That's what I was thinking. Because it makes no sense to say that Jesus died for the sins whole world and then in the next sentence say "But not the whole world will get to be with Jesus". Because in the end, Jesus's sheep are the ones saved not the whole world. John could have meant that Jesus died for people across the world and not just for the Jews or people who would expect Jesus to die for them. EVERYONE who will believe in Jesus WILL be saved.
Jesus only aids to salvation those the Father gives to Him.
Matthew 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
 
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SkyWriting

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So, why does some parts of the Bible seem to teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world? The bible can't contradict itself can it?

Jesus did die for everyone's sake, even while we were still sinners.
But you must accept the free gift for it to be yours.
You can't throw a free gift on the floor and step on it
and still receive the benefits of the gift. It must be cherished.
It is an offer for you to be with God.
 
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sdowney717

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Hebrews 2

10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:

“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”

13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”

And again:

Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.

Not all people are the seed of Abraham!
 
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Neostarwcc

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This ignores a great deal of Biblical language.

For instance, ...

1 Timothy 4:10 “We have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.”

2 Peter 3:9 "God is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

I think of the example of the "manna" which fell for every Israelite, ... whether they opted to gather their share or not.

God is a God of sufficiency and OVERABUNDANCE, so that none can say that PROVISION was not made for them. PROVISION is made for ALL, though not ALL take advantage of His PROVISION.

I suppose. I mean I'm trying to believe that God died for the sins of the whole world. I mean, most Christians do believe that so why can't I? But if God DID die for the whole world why isn't the whole world saved? Because the whole world won't come to him for salvation? That makes sense. But if the whole world won't come to him for salvation why bother dying for them at all? See what I'm getting at? It makes more sense to say that God died for those who will come to believe in him. Those sins are forever covered. Because aren't only the sins of the saved covered? Let's say for example that Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world and that the sins of the whole world are covered. Why do people still die? Doesn't sin lead to death? After all Jesus promised that everyone who believes in him will never die even though their bodies die. And if everyone's sins are covered why do people go to hell for not believing in Jesus? Because isn't it dying in our sins that cause us to go to hell (John 8:24)?
 
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A_Thinker

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But if the whole world won't come to him for salvation why bother dying for them at all?

Because God is not a God of ADEQUACY, ... He is a God of ABUNDANCE. He is (and does) MORE THAN ENOUGH.

Noone will ever be able to complain that God did not do MORE THAN ENOUGH for them ...
 
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bling

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I suppose. I mean I'm trying to believe that God died for the sins of the whole world. I mean, most Christians do believe that so why can't I? But if God DID die for the whole world why isn't the whole world saved? Because the whole world won't come to him for salvation? That makes sense. But if the whole world won't come to him for salvation why bother dying for them at all? See what I'm getting at? It makes more sense to say that God died for those who will come to believe in him. Those sins are forever covered. Because aren't only the sins of the saved covered? Let's say for example that Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world and that the sins of the whole world are covered. Why do people still die? Doesn't sin lead to death? After all Jesus promised that everyone who believes in him will never die even though their bodies die. And if everyone's sins are covered why do people go to hell for not believing in Jesus? Because isn't it dying in our sins that cause us to go to hell (John 8:24)?

You are making some big assumptions concerning the definition of atonement.

You need to start with lev. 5 and try to understand the total atonement process for unintentional sins (really very minor sins) to see how it might extrapolate up to rebellious disobedience.

The male Jews of the day would have had firsthand experience with the atonement process which we do not have to begin with, but can experience with the cross.

Jesus is only the atonement sacrifice part of the atonement process, described by Christ, Paul, John, Peter and the Hebrew writer as a literal ransom payment.

Man does have a part to play in the atonement process, but it is not some noble, honorable, worthy action, but really a criminal action, in that man as the unworthy kidnapper accepts the ransom payment to release the child (within each of us) to freely go to the Kingdom of God.

This is a very brief explanation.
 
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mkgal1

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MMBattlestar said:
I suppose. I mean I'm trying to believe that God died for the sins of the whole world. I mean, most Christians do believe that so why can't I? But if God DID die for the whole world why isn't the whole world saved? Because the whole world won't come to him for salvation? That makes sense. But if the whole world won't come to him for salvation why bother dying for them at all? See what I'm getting at?
Maybe it's your definition of "saved" that may need some adjustment?

I do believe God will accomplish His will that ALL will be saved.....but it will take time--ages--for ALL to come to Him. He does have eternity- after all- to accomplish this.
 
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Halbhh

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For most of my Christian walk I believed that Jesus died for the elect a.k.a his sheep as said in John 10:7, John 10:11, , John 10:15, and John 10:26. Also in John 17 in Jesus's prayer to the Father he talks about saving the sheep and not the whole world. But there are other verses in the bible that begin to bother me like 1 John 2:2 where it says:

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

and John 3:16-17 where it says

" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

Well if Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why doesn't everyone go to be with Jesus when they die? Why is it only the elect that enter heaven? It makes more sense that Jesus died for all who he foreknew would come to him to salvation doesn't it? Only Jesus's sheep are saved in the long run all others are not. All Christians can agree on this. So, why die for the whole world when the whole world can't be saved? Only those who come to Jesus for salvation can be saved and God knew ahead of time who would and who wouldn't come to Jesus for salvation so it makes the most amount of sense that Jesus died for his sheep doesn't it? After all, why would Jesus say in most of John 10 "I die for my sheep" if he didn't die for his sheep?. So, I don't understand it. If it is the truth that Jesus died for the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why do people still go to hell and why are only Jesus's sheep saved? It doesn't make any sense to me. Not at all. That sounds a lot more unfair to me personally then to say that Jesus died for everyone who he foreknew would come to him for salvation. I mean, that doesn't say that Jesus chose people for hell it says that Jesus chose every single person on the Earth that could possibly be saved.

I mean, predestination is something taught in Ephesians 1:4 and 1 Peter 1:20. So, why does some parts of the Bible seem to teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world? The bible can't contradict itself can it?

Here's the "predestined" =God planned for our salvation (to be made available to us if we would come to Him, that is trust (faith)/love) --> "before the creation of the world"(!).

Thus it was predestined (planned ahead) for us that Christ would come to make a way for us, so that "whosoever believes in Him will be" given eternal life!

But it's not forced on anyone to choose trust, that is faith/belief, and love in Christ.

They are free to choose so, or not.
 
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eleos1954

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For most of my Christian walk I believed that Jesus died for the elect a.k.a his sheep as said in John 10:7, John 10:11, , John 10:15, and John 10:26. Also in John 17 in Jesus's prayer to the Father he talks about saving the sheep and not the whole world. But there are other verses in the bible that begin to bother me like 1 John 2:2 where it says:

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

and John 3:16-17 where it says

" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

Well if Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why doesn't everyone go to be with Jesus when they die? Why is it only the elect that enter heaven? It makes more sense that Jesus died for all who he foreknew would come to him to salvation doesn't it? Only Jesus's sheep are saved in the long run all others are not. All Christians can agree on this. So, why die for the whole world when the whole world can't be saved? Only those who come to Jesus for salvation can be saved and God knew ahead of time who would and who wouldn't come to Jesus for salvation so it makes the most amount of sense that Jesus died for his sheep doesn't it? After all, why would Jesus say in most of John 10 "I die for my sheep" if he didn't die for his sheep?. So, I don't understand it. If it is the truth that Jesus died for the whole world and everyone's sins are covered why do people still go to hell and why are only Jesus's sheep saved? It doesn't make any sense to me. Not at all. That sounds a lot more unfair to me personally then to say that Jesus died for everyone who he foreknew would come to him for salvation. I mean, that doesn't say that Jesus chose people for hell it says that Jesus chose every single person on the Earth that could possibly be saved.

I mean, predestination is something taught in Ephesians 1:4 and 1 Peter 1:20. So, why does some parts of the Bible seem to teach that Jesus died for the sins of the world? The bible can't contradict itself can it?

Mankind was "predestined" to the authority of Jesus Christ.

John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Mankind was created with freewill ... out of Love. True Love can not exist without freewill. One can not force someone to love someone. Nor does God force anyone to Love Him. Even the angels in heaven had freewill - choice. The first sin was actually committed in heaven by Lucifer and he and his angels were cast down to the earth. Therefore there was freewill in heaven as well. God expelled sin out of heaven

Jesus provides "the way" .... all have the opportunity to choose "the way" .... or not. Some choose to follow His ways ..... some do not. We all have choice - freewill.

Revelation 3 - Everyone has the opportunity. It is their choice.

20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

John 14

6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Foreknowledge is difficult to understand. God knows who will be saved ... but He does not control the choices we humans make.

Jesus will not return until God the fathers' foreknowledge is revealed. He knows when there is nobody in the future who will choose "the way" through His Son. Only God the father knows this.

Matthew 24

36But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. 37For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man
 
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JoeP222w

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Jesus did not die for the whole world, but those who believe in Him, by His grace.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Who are the ones who believe in Him?

John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. (29) For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. (30) And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 
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