TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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Oxfam: 8 people own same wealth as poorest 3,600,000,000
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One of the benefits of being rich is very deep pockets. If a supplier or contractor or business rival accuses you of something illegal, your lawyers can tie them up in court for years. Sometimes the mere threat of a lawsuit is enough because the little guy simply does not have the money to hire the legal expertise. All this is far more frequent than we think.
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I don't believe I made a comparison. Just stating that my life isn't affected by someone being successful. Good for them, I hope the bless as they have been blessed.
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TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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True, it's very possible that their success, and the system which makes them more successful hasn't impacted you in the least... but how would you know if it had?
Case in point -- under the GOP tax plan, you're paying more so that they pay less. Some might consider that negative.
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That's like a paradox. Not sure what I should derive from it. I guess I just have to be content with my situation and not worry about things.
How is that relevant to the discussion?
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TLK Valentine
I've already read the books you want burned.
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Not a paradox at all -- merely pointing out that you say you haven't been affected negatively because you've never lived any other way.
Case in point: Ever read My Bondage and My Freedom by Frederick Douglass? As a child, he accepted slavery because he literally knew of no other way to live. Ignorance is bliss, don't you know.
It was only when he picked up a copy of The Columbian Orator that he realized that a grave injustice existed, and he was on the short end of it. His childhood wasn't all that happy afterwards.
Now, I'm not saying our current system is as bad as slavery, but I trust that now you understand my point.
If they get what they want (and they will), you lose money. Surely you consider that a negative effect...
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Nothing, it's a good thing, in moderation:
1 Timothy 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
Mark 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
James 1:9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
10 But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.
11 For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Luke 16:19 ¶There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Maybe.
Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
Luke 18:18 ¶And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Possibly.
James 5:1 ¶Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
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Good point. For:
James 2:6 . . . Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
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That brought to mind Lamentations 5:4, which seems an odd thing to lament about. For we all do this today, and see it as good. But the author of this lamentation, the prophet Jeremiah, was thinking from a more-exalted viewpoint, where people own their own land, with their own water sources, and with their own sources of wood. Jeremiah is lamenting the state in which people are wage slaves (Lamentations 5:5b), forced to work for others, and pay others, for even their most basic necessities.
Note that it very well could be.
For at the time the Bible was written, slavery wasn't at all based on race. For there were many more white slaves than black. And no doubt some of the white slaves had black masters. The Bible isn't racist (Acts 17:26, Revelation 5:9).
Also, the Old Testament forbade the cruel treatment of slaves (Leviticus 25:43, Exodus 21:26-27), of whatever race, and forbade the return of escaped slaves to their masters (Deuteronomy 23:15-16). Similarly, the New Testament commands the right treatment of slaves (Colossians 4:1), and says slaves should obtain freedom from mortal masters if they're able to (1 Corinthians 7:21). But Christians are to remain the voluntary slaves/servants of Jesus Christ (Romans 1:1, Romans 6:22, Revelation 1:1), who has freed them from slavery to sin (John 8:34-36) and offers them eternal life (Romans 6:22-23).
Also, the world today takes pride in its outlawing of slavery. Yet the world overlooks the billions of "wage slaves" today who aren't paid a living wage, while their corporate masters grow rich off their labor. So slaves today are cared for less by their masters than slaves in Bible times were to be cared for (Colossians 4:1, Exodus 21:5).
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Even more importantly, the rich own the legislatures, through massive political-campaign donations. The courts are simply to uphold the laws which the bought-and-paid-for legislatures pass, on behalf of their rich patrons.
And the poor masses are kept content through "the bread and circuses" of subsistence-welfare (e.g. food stamps) and the endless entertainments provided by the media outlets, which are also owned by the rich.
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Dawnhammer
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So you are not worried about anything that you perceive as not affecting you ? Nor possess imagination to figure how it might affect you or your kids in the future?
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Nothing. I quite enjoy it myself.
Not that I am aware of.
It's possible but I don't know.
Now, my question to you.
Is concentration of wealth an issue?
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No imagination? You really need to work on not making it personal when you disagree.
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durangodawood
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Sounds like a completely reasonable observation.
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iluvatar5150
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It's a bad thing that the global economic system is stacked in their favor; that their wealth grows faster than that of folks with (substantially) less. I don't necessarily have a problem with any of them (I don't know enough about them to have much of an opinion), but it's hard to argue that they need more help than they've already got. If there are systemic factors contributing to growing inequality, we should probably address them.
That's the question.
I suspect you're being a tad facetious.
How would you know? If policies had been rigged differently such that, for example, the wealthy were taxed more heavily and that money was used to fund more education and infrastructure spending, then it's certainly feasible that that money could have benefited you.
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But what's the point? I can spend my life pining after someone else's wealth, or I can make the best out of my own situation. Ain't nothing I can do about global money systems.
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Good point, for all of us.
Also, the latter shouldn't mean worrying about increasing our own wealth. For:
Matthew 6:19 ¶Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Also, Jesus wants us to have an abundant life in Him, here and now (John 10:10b), but He means a more abundant life spiritually (Ephesians 1:17-18, Ephesians 3:16-19), rather than a life focused on obtaining material wealth (Luke 12:15; 1 Timothy 6:8-12, Hebrews 13:5, Matthew 6:19-24).
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iluvatar5150
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This is one of those times where addressing systemic problems and addressing individual problems require entirely different approaches.
Advising folks to be responsible, pull themselves up by their bootstraps, etc, is great advice for an individual, but it's not great public policy, because it ignores broader trends that push populations downward, making it more difficult for them to help themselves, and ultimately causing more of them to fall into poverty.
It's not unlike sex ed - teaching your own children to be chaste is great, but abstinence-only makes for lousy education policy because it ignores the possibility that kids will have sex and leaves unprepared the ones who do, which ultimately makes the problems worse.
A cynical person would see these Horatio Alger ideals as a smoke screen to obfuscate the policies that disproportionately benefit the wealthy.
Why not? You can lobby your elected representatives, can't you? Do you take such a helpless attitude on all issues?
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