Justin Martyr, Christians Are The True Israelitic Race.

Truth7t7 · Nov 24, 2017

Biblewriter said:
I try not to deal in interpreting passages whose meaning is questionable. I specialize in explicitly stated scriptures.

Revelation 20:12 We see the book of life opened, when will this take place?

keras · Nov 24, 2017

Biblewriter said:
When you deny all this, you are denying explicitly stated scripture, not an interpretation of what some scripture means.

Your insistence for only ethnic Israel to be the people that are saved and who will occupy all the holy Land, is refuted by many scriptures:
Isaiah 66:18b-21, where it says those who return to the Land are people from all the nations and languages. They come out of all the nations, as an offering to the Lord, just as the Israelites did with grain offerings in purified vessels. Some of them, I shall take for My priests and for Levites, says the Lord.
Proved by Revelation 5:9-10....Jesus has redeemed us by His blood, out of every kindred, people, nation and language. He has made us [Christians] acceptable to God, His rulers and priests and we shall reign on earth.
John saw them all in Jerusalem soon after the Sixth Seal event has cleared and cleansed the whole Middle East area, Deuteronomy 32:43, Zephaniah 1:14-18, as the vast multitude standing before the Lamb. Revelation 7:9. [Jesus is revealed to His own at that time. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10]
All those faithful Christians are each assigned to one of the twelve tribes according to every individuals characteristics. The 144,000 are selected by Jesus out of them. Perfectly logical and obvious, really!

Here is a verse you should ponder on: ...I tell you: God can make descendants of Abraham out of these very stones. Matthew 3:9

Allenbee · Nov 24, 2017

I have a different view.
Our Messiah is a JEW... the lion from the tribe of Judah. (Jew is the shortened form of Judean)
Our Lord preached to JEW first...then later to gentiles.
So to me we have Messianic Jews (all the apostles), and Messianic gentile (called Christians today).
Lets look at this now..."then let those in Judea flee to the mountains".
Yes the location was the holy land (Judea) but ONLY believers in our Lord fled.
"then let those (brothers) in Judea flee to the mountains".
So believers in our Lord, Messianic Jew and Messianic gentiles...are today's nation of JUDEA !!!
Now understand Isaiah 2; "Concerning JUDAH (believers in Jesus) and Jerusalem (holy land) in the final part of the days.

As for the Jews in Israel today... the only salvation for them is the same as it was at 66-70ce, and that is to become Messianic Jews, who OBEY Jesus to flee.

Now Jew's becoming Messianic Jews is happening very fast...a huge end time sign.
Christians today are far removed from their Jewish roots, so to me Messianic Jews must not become like the divided, pagan filled "Christians" of today, but rather we true Christians should be as Messianic Jews. "Take hold of the skirt of the Jew".

For end time this is confirmed at Malachi 4.
Yep...ALL YHWH's laws and statutes. "Christian Jews" !!!

Again today... only believers will flee and survive, the Jews will fight and loose Jerusalem where the "disgusting thing" will stand.

Yes...I believe in the greater EXODUS worldwide BEFORE the great tribulation... NOT a man made pretrib rapture.

Truth7t7 · Nov 24, 2017

Allenbee said:
I have a different view.
Our Messiah is a JEW... the lion from the tribe of Judah. (Jew is the shortened form of Judean)
Our Lord preached to JEW first...then later to gentiles.
So to me we have Messianic Jews (all the apostles), and Messianic gentile (called Christians today).
Lets look at this now..."then let those in Judea flee to the mountains".
Yes the location was the holy land (Judea) but ONLY believers in our Lord fled.
"then let those (brothers) in Judea flee to the mountains".
So believers in our Lord, Messianic Jew and Messianic gentiles...are today's nation of JUDEA !!!
Now understand Isaiah 2; "Concerning JUDAH (believers in Jesus) and Jerusalem (holy land) in the final part of the days.

As for the Jews in Israel today... the only salvation for them is the same as it was at 66-70ce, and that is to become Messianic Jews, who OBEY Jesus to flee.

Now Jew's becoming Messianic Jews is happening very fast...a huge end time sign.
Christians today are far removed from their Jewish roots, so to me Messianic Jews must not become like the divided, pagan filled "Christians" of today, but rather we true Christians should be as Messianic Jews. "Take hold of the skirt of the Jew".

For end time this is confirmed at Malachi 4.
Yep...ALL YHWH's laws and statutes. "Christian Jews" !!!

Again today... only believers will flee and survive, the Jews will fight and loose Jerusalem where the "disgusting thing" will stand.

Yes...I believe in the greater EXODUS worldwide BEFORE the great tribulation... NOT a man made pretrib rapture.

You push Messianic, and suggest Jerusalem is the current Holy land?

There is neither Jew Nor Greek, ethnic heritage has nothing to do with God, he is no respector of person.

Believers In Jesus Christ Are "Christians" Who Belong To His "Church"

Jerusalem is currently the "Unholy Land" likened to Sodom and Egypt Revelation 11:8 as Judaism is heavily involved in the "Evil Talmud" and "Occultic Kaballah", not to mention gay pride parades marching in its streets.

keras · Nov 24, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
You push Messianic Judaism, and suggest Jerusalem is the current Holy land?

There is neither Jew Nor Greek, ethnic heritage has nothing to do with God, he is no respector of person.

Jerusalem is currently the "Unholy Land" likened to Sodom and Egypt Revelation 11:8 as Judaism is heavily involved in the Talmud and Occultic Kaballah, not to mention gay pride parades marching in its streets.

Yes, we do believe that Jerusalem and the holy Land is God's special place, because God say's it is: Deuteronomy 11:12, Isaiah 49:14-21
It is currently occupied by apostate and unbelieving Jewish and Ishmaelite peoples. They will all be 'uprooted' and removed in the forthcoming Lord's Day of wrath:
Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them. Luke 19:27

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Jeremiah 10:18, Zephaniah 1:18, excepting for a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:4

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8

Truth7t7 · Nov 24, 2017

keras said:
Yes, we do believe that Jerusalem and the holy Land is God's special place, because God say's it is: Deuteronomy 11:12, Isaiah 49:14-21
It is currently occupied by apostate and unbelieving Jewish and Ishmaelite peoples. They will all be 'uprooted' and removed in the forthcoming Lord's Day of wrath:
Jeremiah 12:14-16 These are the Words of the Lord: I am against all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that My Israelite people will inherit. Take note; I will pluck them out from where they are now and also I will pluck out the House of Judah as well. After I have removed them, I will Return and have compassion on them, bringing them back to their heritage, if they will diligently learn the way of My people, to only swear by My Name: the Living God. But if they refuse, then I will completely remove and destroy them. Luke 19:27

This Bible passage is extremely informative, it gives the Lord’s plans for three groups of people.

1/ The evil neighbours; The Islamic nations and entities surrounding Israel. Soon to be cleared out of the entire Middle East region by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath by fire from the sun. Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 30:25-30, Amos 1:1-11, 2:1-5

2/ The House of Judah, the Jewish people, currently inhabiting a part of the holy Land. The same fate as the neighbours, but a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Zechariah 13:8-9

3/ My people; the true Israelites of God, every Christian believer; individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10, 1 Peter 2:9-10

The story described here, is clear and concise: The Lord is about to solve all the Middle East problems, to a similar degree as how He reset civilization in Noah’s time. All the holy land will be depopulated, Jeremiah 10:18, Zephaniah 1:18, excepting for a small remnant of Messianic Jews who will shelter in bunkers in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:4

This will allow the gathering and settling of His righteous Christian people into their heritage where they will, at last be the people He always wanted there; a people who will be His witnesses and display His light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8

I agree with you position that christians will be in Mt Zion, the Holy Land?

However it will be after the Lord returns in firey judgment, dissolving this eath by his fire 2 Peter 3:10-13, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, Luke 17:29-30, Nahum 1:5, Malachi 3:2, Isaiah 24:20, 1 Corinthians 3:13

Then the eternal New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem are revealed.Revelation 21:1-5

Allenbee · Nov 26, 2017

Thank you Keras, so rare to find agreement, pleased to read you... and this is spot on Truth7t7;
"I agree with you position that christians will be in Mt Zion, the Holy Land"?

Yes agreed... the Lord rules over the whole earth referred to as Mt ZION, or even Jerusalem as at Isaiah 66, or "the city of our God"....HIS footstool.
He also rules over all the NATIONS of the world, so although there will be unity of belief as ONE, there still will be nations like; Chinese, Indian, Europeans, Africans, Arabs etc etc. BUT... HIS headquarters is the holy land, where He returns to according to scripture.

Now there is much debate about these VERY important scriptures for earthly ones like myself;
Rev 7;9-17;
9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of [all] tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before* the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels were standing round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, These that are arrayed in white robes, who are they, and whence came they?

14 And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before* the throne of God; and they serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall spread his tabernacle over them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun strike upon them, nor any heat: 17 for the Lamb that is in the midst of the throne shall be their shepherd, and shall guide them unto fountains of waters of life: and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes.

The debate is about the BEFORE*...implying these ones are in heaven.
Now the Greek to English reads... "In sight of the throne and in sight of the Lamb".
So I believe this shows these ones are on earth and survived the 6th seal at Rev 6 which clearly is the great tribulation...cut short or no flesh would be left alive.
MORE than that...I believe they are in sight of the SIGN of our Lord's presence, just as survivors of the nations are who mourne.
29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
and they (believers) cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb... as we have separated to the mountain of the house of HYWH... WORLDWIDE ! Rev 18;4 "GET OUT of her my people". OUT of Babylon the great harlot (false religion) AND... OUT of Babylon the great CITY. (Satans evil world today).... OR else...you will share in her sins and TOTAL destruction !!! Get it ? As for me I hate the way of this world and how the poor suffer and die. I Hallalujah it's destruction and NEVER to rise again.

Isaiah 2;
The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many peoples shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. (Messianic Jew leaders in ISRAEL...AND they already are there).

I find the peace of v 1-3 shows this is BEFORE the Great Trib, THEN 4-5 is during the GT and up to our Lord's presence. (Open to debate IF there is better news)

NOW please read 6-22 the great tribulation on unbelieving Jews and gentiles.
Compare v10-21 to Rev 6; 6th seal...the great tribulation...now SEE we are not there even BEFORE the GT kicks in. Read the beautiful v 1-3 again please.

BABerean2 · Nov 26, 2017

Allenbee said:
For end time this is confirmed at Malachi 4.
Yep...ALL YHWH's laws and statutes. "Christian Jews" !!!

You have much correct in this post.

The Messiah cannot be missed by anyone who is really looking for Him in the Hebrew scriptures.

He is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and this is why many Orthodox rabbis skip over this text.

A New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, to replace the Sinai Covenant Israel had broken, since the day it was given.

In Daniel chapter 9 the angel Gabriel reveals the exact timeline of the New Covenant Messiah.
Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah, when the angel appeared.
This chapter proves that the Messiah, who is the seed of the woman from Genesis 3:15, would appear before the second temple was destroyed.

One of the greatest problems with Christianity today is the fact that there has been a battle between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant of Christ for the entire history of our faith and during most of that time the Judaisers have won the day.
The modern "Hebrew Roots" movement is part of the problem, instead of the solution.

In John 15:10 we have the Messiah clearly speaking of two different sets of commandments.

In Galatians 3 we find the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.
Paul said it was "added" 430 years "after" the promise to Abraham, "until" the seed could come to whom the promise was made.

In Galatians chapter 4 Paul compares the Sinai Covenant to "bondage" and compels the Galatians believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of bondage.

In Hebrew 8:6-13 we find the fulfillment of the New Covenant and it having made the Sinai Covenant "obsolete".

In Hebrews 12:18-24 we find that we are not come to the mountain that burns with fire, but instead to Mount Zion and the heavenly Jerusalem of the New Covenant.

Another problem today is that Orthodox Judaism uses the Babylonian Talmud as its source of truth, instead of the Hebrew scriptures.

If you want modern Jews to come to faith in the Messiah, then tell them the truth about the New Covenant foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
The New Testament is a collection of books about the New Covenant.

.

.

keras · Nov 26, 2017

Allenbee said:
Now there is much debate about these VERY important scriptures for earthly ones like myself;
Rev 7;9-17;

Thanks, Allenbee, we are in agreement that Christians will occupy all the holy Land. If you care to look back, its not too far, at the thread of that name here, you will see the prophesies proving that fact.
Re Revelation 7:1-17, that chapter is entirely describing earthly scenes. The first 3 verses make that clear. The selection of the 144,000 out of the vast multitude seen in verse 9, by Jesus on Mt Zion; Revelation 14:1-5, will happen soon after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
Which is not a part of the Great Tribulation. The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls happen in the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, but the Sixth Seal will be the world changer that commences all that must happen in the last few years of this era.

But Revelation 7:15-17 goes on to describe the situation in Eternity, proved by how God will wipe every tear from their eyes. Revelation 21:4

Allenbee · Nov 26, 2017

Thank you so much BA Berean...and both videos very good.
I do find Messianic Jews pretty split though, and I obviously agree with the "flee to the mountains"teachers, as with the 1st one, and the good conclusion of the 2nd...for the Millennium.
I am in the hell of South Africa (Durban), and can you help me find Messianic Jews here please ?
Or just a link please. (I'm assuming you are a Messianic Jew )?

BABerean2 · Nov 26, 2017

Allenbee said:
Thank you so much BA Berean...and both videos very good.
I do find Messianic Jews pretty split though, and I obviously agree with the "flee to the mountains"teachers, as with the 1st one, and the good conclusion of the 2nd...for the Millennium.
I am in the hell of South Africa (Durban), and can you help me find Messianic Jews here please ?
Or just a link please. (I'm assuming you are a Messianic Jew )?

I am the kind of Jew described by the Apostle Paul in Romans 2:28-29.
I am a follower of the Jewish Messiah foretold in the Hebrew scriptures.

I consider myself a member of the New Covenant, where we do not consider the bloodline of believers.
We are all one Body in Christ, no matter who our parents might be.

I would suggest that you seek out a New Covenant Church in your area, or listen to a New Covenant group online if that is not possible.

Here are some other New Covenant sources to help you.

David H. J. Ministry (Short Articles on the New Covenant)
David H J Gay Ministry

The New Covenant: Bob George
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj7NQffg_NE

Overview of Covenants: Abraham to Christ, David H J Gay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNNhOkFk-2g

Who Confirmed The Covenant?
James Lloyd
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023

Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt0L2B0JjDM

.

Truth7t7 · Nov 27, 2017

Allenbee said:
Thank you Keras, so rare to find agreement, pleased to read you... and this is spot on Truth7t7;
"I agree with you position that christians will be in Mt Zion, the Holy Land"?

Yes agreed... the Lord rules over the whole earth referred to as Mt ZION, or even Jerusalem as at Isaiah 66, or "the city of our God"....HIS footstool.
He also rules over all the NATIONS of the world, so although there will be unity of belief as ONE, there still will be nations like; Chinese, Indian, Europeans, Africans, Arabs etc etc. BUT... HIS headquarters is the holy land, where He returns to according to scripture.

Now there is much debate about these VERY important scriptures for earthly ones like myself;
Rev 7;9-17;
9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of [all] tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before* the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels were standing round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, These that are arrayed in white robes, who are they, and whence came they?

14 And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before* the throne of God; and they serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall spread his tabernacle over them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun strike upon them, nor any heat: 17 for the Lamb that is in the midst of the throne shall be their shepherd, and shall guide them unto fountains of waters of life: and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes.

The debate is about the BEFORE*...implying these ones are in heaven.
Now the Greek to English reads... "In sight of the throne and in sight of the Lamb".
So I believe this shows these ones are on earth and survived the 6th seal at Rev 6 which clearly is the great tribulation...cut short or no flesh would be left alive.
MORE than that...I believe they are in sight of the SIGN of our Lord's presence, just as survivors of the nations are who mourne.
29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
and they (believers) cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb... as we have separated to the mountain of the house of HYWH... WORLDWIDE ! Rev 18;4 "GET OUT of her my people". OUT of Babylon the great harlot (false religion) AND... OUT of Babylon the great CITY. (Satans evil world today).... OR else...you will share in her sins and TOTAL destruction !!! Get it ? As for me I hate the way of this world and how the poor suffer and die. I Hallalujah it's destruction and NEVER to rise again.

Isaiah 2;
The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many peoples shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. (Messianic Jew leaders in ISRAEL...AND they already are there).

I find the peace of v 1-3 shows this is BEFORE the Great Trib, THEN 4-5 is during the GT and up to our Lord's presence. (Open to debate IF there is better news)

NOW please read 6-22 the great tribulation on unbelieving Jews and gentiles.
Compare v10-21 to Rev 6; 6th seal...the great tribulation...now SEE we are not there even BEFORE the GT kicks in. Read the beautiful v 1-3 again please.

Isaiah 65:17-19, Isaiah 66:22, and Revelation 22:1-5 are the "Eternal Kingdom", in the New Heaven, Earth, and Jerusalem.

Jesus wont return to earth and hang out with mortal humans, he warned the believers against this teaching in Matthew 24:23-27

keras · Nov 27, 2017

[QUOTE="
Jesus wont return to earth and hang out with mortal humans, he warned the believers against this teaching in Matthew 24:23-27[/QUOTE]

The fact that there has been and still are false Messiahs, does not preclude the arrival of the real Messiah. Just as Jesus said: He would Return; in the same way as He left. Acts 1:11
Believing that Jesus will never Return, is a seriously bad and unscriptural idea, that conflicts with the Christian hope of God's promise of His dwelling amongst all faithful believers. 2 Thessalonians 1:10

Truth7t7 · Nov 27, 2017

keras said:
Jesus wont return to earth and hang out with mortal humans, he warned the believers against this teaching in Matthew 24:23-27
The fact that there has been and still are false Messiahs, does not preclude the arrival of the real Messiah. Just as Jesus said: He would Return; in the same way as He left. Acts 1:11
Believing that Jesus will never Return, is a seriously bad and unscriptural idea, that conflicts with the Christian hope of God's promise of His dwelling amongst all faithful believers. 2 Thessalonians 1:10

"Jesus Will Dwell Amongst The Righteous"

In the "Eternal Kingdom", the New Heaven, Earth, and Jerusalem, as clearly seen in Isaiah 65:17-19, Isaiah 66:22, Revelation 22:1-5

Jesus will not return to this earth and hang out with mortal humans.

Jesus warned the believers against this teaching in Matthew 24:23-27

"Don't Be Deceived"!

Truth7t7

Allenbee · Nov 28, 2017

Jesus will not return to this earth and hang out with mortal humans.

Well...He did hang out with mortal's when HE appeared to his disciples.
Then HE ate a fish, and walked through a closed door.

So to me a "now ya see me now ya don't" blessing. physical body and spirit, on demand.

I believe we get our "wings" with everlasting life.
Cruise the heavens...walk the earth.
Sending man made rockets to outer space is primitive to GOD, so is this great Internet compared to how GOD just talked to HIS chosen.

Hang in there Keras my friend...i'm sending a looooong post soon, explaining why I believe as I do... presently !!! Why "presently"....because I need it tested...scrapped or refined. I seek TRUTH.

Allenbee · Dec 1, 2017

A friend of mine once told me “Anyone can put together scriptures to suit a belief of their choice” !
Well… many beliefs are exactly that.
For me… I read end time prophesy straight… NO CHURCH TEACHINGS.
My teachers are GOD’S PROPHETS and my leader is GOD’S son.
My Lord Jesus.

Anyway… here is my present understanding of Math 24 with Rev 12.

And you (Addressing Christians) shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for [these things] must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places.
“See that ye be not troubled”:

WHAT !!! World war, famine, earthquakes…of course we will be troubled !!!!
So… I conclude that- “see that you are not troubled”, can only be because… we only hear about these things” !

So that must mean that we believers on earth… are NOT where GOD directs this tribulation !!! We only know about it.
AND… we also do know the following for end times;
“And the CITIES of the NATIONS FELL”… worldwide!! Rev 16,17, 18,

BABYLON you great city…housing ALL CHURCHES and ALL religions places of worship. ALL the false Christ’s. (I believe most of the righteous are the misled amongst ALL religions, and not only Christian ).

“And EVERYONE will HAVE TO KNOW… that I am… YHWH !!!

THAT… is the reason for the great tribulation, apart from “bringing to ruin those ruining the earth”… leveling it… to become the garden of Eden HE created it for… Full stop ! Confirmed at Rev 21; “The tent of God with mankind”.

Anyway the point is, we Christians DO KNOW that GOD will target the “lofty towers” of satan’s Babylon world of today. The way of the West…GOING west !!!
Thank God, as the poor get poorer and the rich get richer !!!

GOD says; SHARE the world… and we are all stinking rich, ( no want) AND can live forever. NOTHING… can be better than that.
Come… my Lord.

Is that fair comment or understanding, so far ?

………………………………………………………………………………………….

So many do see this end time tribulation, and so for some… “to not be there”, a pretrib rapture gets invented !!! Yep…concocted to” tickle the ear”.
My opinion of course… but they are correct to say the righteous will be spared the WRATH of GOD then… and STILL TO COME.

NOW… “flee to the mountains” and “flies to the wilderness” IS WRITTEN*. (Explained later for Messiah’s flock worldwide… the “woman” at Rev 12 who “flies to the wilderness”…PROTECTED by God).

To continue Math 24;

BUT… all these things are the beginning of birth pains !!! (Greek to English).

“Birth pains”… (“ding ding ding” a bell is ringing !!!)…Ohhhhhh Rev 12. The “woman” expecting… CAUSES the birth of a male child to rule the nations with an iron rod…linked to the SIGN of our Lords presence…to rule the nations with an iron rod. Hmmmm ???

So I ask… are we Christians not in expectation of our Lord ?

YES we are… like pregnant… and prophesy will show that we are the “woman”, the TRUE flock .

WE… are the “woman”, we cause the birth, AND we conclude the sovereign issue… even prepared to die, as our Lord died for us !!! ALL for “The Kingdom of GOD” as our Lord taught to the JEW first then us Gentiles.

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
11 They triumphed over him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.

(ONLY chosen ones die, and are “the first resurrection” to heaven.

The “great crowd” also don’t shrink from death, but not chosen, and survive on earth. (My hope).

Yoh yoh yoh!!! And it all starts with Gen 3;15. …. as we will see later.

Back to Bad news … for Christians still in Babylon;

9 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.

12 And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold.

13 But he that endureth (truth) to the end, the same shall be saved.

Sooooo… this must be the result of the WARS,” kingdom against kingdom”… because wars have VICTORS…and we see these victors hate Christians.

Take your pick… we have atheists; Russia, China, North Korea. We have Islam; Iran, Syria, and Islam radicals worldwide, but it all starts with today’s Israel who suffer partial destruction. then eternal restoration under Messiah.

It doesn’t really matter how it all pans out, as God will do what God will do. The point is…we should not be in the destruction of Babylon, which is… worldwide.

THAT… is what “flee to the mountains” is all about as we are sheltered from the “storm” by GOD ! Hundreds of scriptures from all the end time prophets confirm this, but that needs another separate HUGE post to show ALL the ”BLESSINGS from GOD” as we humbly accept HIS creation and the WAY… for man.

But here, is a good summary of what “flee to the mountains” really means;
Joel 2; “before us a garden of Eden…behind us a desolate waste”.

We don’t flee for the duration of the G T and then come back ! Back to what ??? We flee to the worldwide promised land…Mt ZION. This is BIG.

We flee…to start the beginning of the “new earth” !!!
War in heaven and satan cast out … is ”new heavens”.
“See…I create new heavens and new earth…the former things have past away.”

Please read ALL of Joel Ch2,3… and ALL end time prophesy… with “flee to the mountains” in mind. It’s beautiful.
Please read Isa 24,25,26 ALL…and you will see two land’s and two peoples . Destruction for one, and God’s blessings and protection on the other.

AND…NEVER happened before.

END TIME PROPHESY… is beautiful.

Enough for now… will continue tomorrow.

Good night.

Allenbee · Dec 2, 2017

Back to Math now ;
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

MANY Churches claim this… but mostly teach a heavenly Kingdom. BUT…ALL religions skip from v 14 as applicable today, to the great tribulation applicable today.

This part is largely ignored by Christianity, but not by Messianic Jews .
15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), 16 then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:

“Oh that’s for 70 CE” Christian’s say !
Ok..this can be applied to 70CE using Daniel, but the disciples would clearly have known it ALSO applied to the Lord’s second coming, BECAUSE for their day they were plainly told to flee when Jerusalem was surrounded by encamped armies as Luke recorded.
NO NEED to discern anything for that time, as GOD was USING the Roman army to destroy unfaithful Israel, and even made the Roman army to suddenly retreat for 4 years from 66CE to allow BELIEVERS to flee!!! AND Daniel 11 & 12 is for our day.
Yes… Messianic Jews in Judea today will flee the “abomination of desolation” and here below shows the very latest and dangerous time to flee…as an UNPREPARED people now ;

let him that is on the housetop not go down to take out things that are in his house: 18 and let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak.

19 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!

20 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath: 21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

I take the view that we as Christians, absolutely do believe that the great tribulation will happen, is necessary, and… is WORLDWIDE.
So… why wait for “the abomination of desolation to stand in the holy place” if we believe that too will definitely happen ????

Huh!!! Is it your material possessions holding you back ?
Yet you do know..."they will throw their silver and gold in the streets" in the day of GOD'S wrath.

That is why I believe it is a very good idea to OBEY our Messiah to flee… but as congregations worldwide…”the voice in the wilderness” proclaiming “the Kingdom of GOD” worldwide… BEFORE the hell on satan’s Babylon starts.
And especially BEFORE our LORD RETURNS!!! "the voice in the wilderness" in the spirit of Elijah.

Look at the 7 congregations formed BEFORE the destruction at 70 CE, and OBEYING the Messiah then… led to Christianity spreading worldwide today.

TODAY…a far greater witness… the establishing of “the mountain of the house of YHWH”. Isaiah 2. SUPPORTED by ALL the end time prophets !!!

BUT NOT… by ANY religion on earth TODAY !!!!

Too many Christians turn a blind eye to a great tribulation, as they attend Church regularly, love their Minister, and we all go to heaven to be with our Lord” !!!

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ, or, Here; believe [it] not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

25 Behold, I have told you beforehand.

26 If therefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: Behold, he is in the inner chambers; believe [it] not.

27 For as the lightning cometh forth from the east, and is seen even unto the west; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

28 Wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

That tells it all; every densely populated city… WORLDWIDE… is where the eagles feed amount the rubble of SATANS IDOLS.

The CITIES of BABYLON.

……………………………………………………………………………………………………..

So the scoffers say… “where do we flee to” ?

{ Cities occupy less than 2 percent of the Earth's land surface, but house almost half of the human population and use 75 percent of the resources we take from the Earth

The richest 1% now has as much wealth as the rest of the world combined, according to Oxfam. 2016

Nearly 1/2 of the world's population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day. ONE BILLION children worldwide are living in poverty. According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty.}

Ohhhh my GOD….CHANGE this evil hell soon !

.

seventysevens · Dec 2, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Isaiah 65:17-19, Isaiah 66:22, and Revelation 22:1-5 are the "Eternal Kingdom", in the New Heaven, Earth, and Jerusalem.

Jesus wont return to earth and hang out with mortal humans, he warned the believers against this teaching in Matthew 24:23-27

You still have not yet learned what 2 Peter 3 teaches

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

Moses was not born as Israelite
Abraham was not born an Israelite
Enoch was not an Israelite
Adam was an Israelite

Check out why God used a lamb to represent the sacrificial lamb
whom saves the world to spend eternity with the Creator of everything
Lamb in the thicket
Lamb blood used for Passover
Lamb crucified on the cross for ALL Mankind
These type of threads seem a bit disingenuous as to seek a elevate specific group of people as better Christians

Jesus would leave the flock to seek after the one lost sheep

When you really understand this , being a Jew or Israelite is irrelevant in the eyes of the LORD , the reason Jesus does not remove the scars on His body as a result of the cross He shed His blood on is to serve as a reminder of what happened in the house of his friends...for ALL Eternity

Allenbee · Dec 2, 2017

What on earth are you talking about ?
Or...what in heaven are you talking about ?
WHAT are you trying to get at ???
PLEASE explain what you think Peter means ?
PLEASE explain... as it seems you believe earth is destroyed and ya all go to heaven !!!
Please explain...but not by posting a scripture and ASSUMING we see it as your minister taught you.
Please explain...AND remember it MUST harmonize will ALL other scripture.
In other words... EXPLAIN your belief AND show scriptual support...as I DO.

I HAVE READ YOU ON OTHER POSTS... and a critic to all.
Whats your problem fella ?

I

seventysevens · Dec 2, 2017

Allenbee said:
Again today... only believers will flee and survive, the Jews will fight and loose Jerusalem where the "disgusting thing" will stand.
Yes...I believe in the greater EXODUS worldwide BEFORE the great tribulation... NOT a man made pretrib rapture.

Sorry I did not realize this would be so hard for you to understand
Do you understand Why God chose a lamb to represent the savoir of the world when he could have chosen any other ferocious animal ?
Do you understand why Jesus does not remove the scars on His body as a result of the cross ?
Do you not understand that all the squabbles about the heritage of humans is of no lasting concern of God , Every person born He created as his child and given that child the choice to spend eternity in splendor or eternal torment , everything created belongs to God not man
Did you read the scripture of Peter and what do you think it means?
Nothing I said related to anything you said , but now since you decide to question ,

How do you define the worldwide EXODUS BEFORE the great tribulation and exactly where are all those people going
If you had studied scripture of the rapture you would know it is not man made ,,some ppl may not teach it well but that does not make it man made , many ppl do not accept the doctrine of salvation until they meet someone that teaches it in a way that they can understand it . OT stated what would happen when the messiah is crucified , but the OT Jews that called for Jesus to be crucified did not believe until after it happened , then they believed it

Justin Martyr, Christians Are The True Israelitic Race.

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