Matthew 25 Jesus Returns In Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom

claninja · Nov 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
I answered in detail with scripture and went an extra step further to show you evidence that there things in Matthew 24 that have not yet come to pass .

seventysevens said:
There is a long list of things that have not yet been fulfilled but here are some of the things that prove that the Olivet discourse is not yet fulfilled.

So let's take a look at what you said has not yet been fulfilled:

seventysevens said:
Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So, you said the gospel has not yet been preached in all the world and the end has not yet come. Well, scripture seems to disagree with your interpretation of what "preached in all the world" and "end" means.

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being proclaimed all over the world

Colossians 1:6
All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood the grace of God.

Colossians 1:23
23if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

So it appears, the gospel has been spread to the whole world. But what about the end you may ask, Well here's what paul has to say:

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.

Hebrews 9:26
2Otherwise, He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself

The gospel was preached to the whole world for 40 years, from the death of Christ, until the destruction of the temple, which officially signaled the end of the old covenant. This can be clearly seen in scripture, to deny this, is to deny what the scriptures say.

seventysevens said:
21 For then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Jesus also refers to this very same event as the "testing of all the world's inhabitants"
Jesus teaches that the Great Trib will be so horrible that no flesh would live , all flesh would die if he did not come to earth to put an end to the Great Trib ,,this is no ordinary tribulation Jesus says outright that the only reason that Any flesh would be spared from death is because HE HIMSELF returns to spare those who have accepted his gift of salvation , Jesus has not yet returned

This is hyperbolic language, which is commonly used in the OT, especially when it comes to judgment. so let's compare it to some OT passages.

Ezekiel 5:9 And because of all your abominations I will do with you what I have never yet done, and the like of which I will never do again.

This verse has to do with the prophecy against Jerusalem, which was about to be sieged by Babylon. But God did do this again to them in 70AD, and it was much worse.

Isaiah 13:19-20
19And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. 20It will never be inhabited or lived in for all generations;

Has no one ever lived in the area of Babylon since the destruction of Babylon by Persia?

The destruction of the temple and Jerusalem was the worst thing to happen to the nation of Israel. Not only were millions slaughtered by the romans, God ended the covenant he had made with them.

seventysevens said:
Part of the Olivet discourse includes details of Jesus return to earth

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Again, This is the fulfillment of Daniel 7:13-14. You have done nothing to show that it isn't nor have you answered the following questions:

How did the Pharisees "see" this?
Matthew 26:64
You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”g

How did the disciples "see" it?
Matthew 16:27-28
For the Son of Man will come in His Father’s glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. 28Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Did the Lord literally come down to earth when he used Assyria to judge Israel?

Micah 1:2-4
3Look! The Lord is coming from his dwelling place;
he comes down and treads on the heights of the earth.
4The mountains melt beneath him and the valleys split apart, like wax before the fire, like water
rushing down a slope.

Understand that apocalyptic and hyperbolic language are not always literal.

seventysevens said:
Rule of prophecy it has to be 100% exact fulfillment , not just merely something similar

Is Jesus a false prophet for saying this was fulfilled?

Malachi 4:5-6?
“See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written “ ‘I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.’c

Matthew 11:13-14
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

No, instead you use conspiracy theories to interpret prophecies that you interpret as being future; ie computer chips.

I'll paraphrase peacelovejoy: quit looking to the sky (physical) start looking at the spiritual, for the natural comes first (old covenant), but the spiritual comes after (new covenant). And the spiritual is way more glorious.

seventysevens · Nov 22, 2017

claninja said:
So let's take a look at what you said has not yet been fulfilled:

So, you said the gospel has not yet been preached in all the world and the end has not yet come. Well, scripture seems to disagree with your interpretation of what "preached in all the world" and "end" means.

Romans 1:8
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being proclaimed all over the world

Colossians 1:6
All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood the grace of God.

Colossians 1:23
23if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

So it appears, the gospel has been spread to the whole world. But what about the end you may ask, Well here's what paul has to say:

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.

Hebrews 9:26
2Otherwise, He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself

The gospel was preached to the whole world for 40 years, from the death of Christ, until the destruction of the temple, which officially signaled the end of the old covenant. This can be clearly seen in scripture, to deny this, is to deny what the scriptures say.

This is hyperbolic language, which is commonly used in the OT, especially when it comes to judgment. so let's compare it to some OT passages.

Ezekiel 5:9 And because of all your abominations I will do with you what I have never yet done, and the like of which I will never do again.

This verse has to do with the prophecy against Jerusalem, which was about to be sieged by Babylon. But God did do this again to them in 70AD, and it was much worse.

Isaiah 13:19-20
19And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them. 20It will never be inhabited or lived in for all generations;

Has no one ever lived in the area of Babylon since the destruction of Babylon by Persia?

The destruction of the temple and Jerusalem was the worst thing to happen to the nation of Israel. Not only were millions slaughtered by the romans, God ended the covenant he had made with them.

Again, This is the fulfillment of Daniel 7:13-14. You have done nothing to show that it isn't nor have you answered the following questions:

How did the Pharisees "see" this?
Matthew 26:64
You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”g

How did the disciples "see" it?
Matthew 16:27-28
For the Son of Man will come in His Father’s glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. 28Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Did the Lord literally come down to earth when he used Assyria to judge Israel?

Micah 1:2-4
3Look! The Lord is coming from his dwelling place;
he comes down and treads on the heights of the earth.
4The mountains melt beneath him and the valleys split apart, like wax before the fire, like water
rushing down a slope.

Understand that apocalyptic and hyperbolic language are not always literal.

Is Jesus a false prophet for saying this was fulfilled?

Malachi 4:5-6?
“See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written “ ‘I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.’c

Matthew 11:13-14
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

No, instead you use conspiracy theories to interpret prophecies that you interpret as being future; ie computer chips.

I'll paraphrase peacelovejoy: quit looking to the sky (physical) start looking at the spiritual, for the natural comes first (old covenant), but the spiritual comes after (new covenant). And the spiritual is way more glorious.

Still you fall way short , you have an epic fail
You insist that Jesus will not come to earth
you refuse to see that in just a few years that ALL 100% of All items bought or sold and All services provided will be paid for by Digital money , coin money will no longer be accepted , paper money will no longer be accepted , in some countries this is the case right now , you can be jailed if you refuse to stop trying to pay for things with paper money . ALL major banks on earth strongly support digital currency ,, blocked chain bitcoin is the current favorite because it is 100% traceable and 99.9% unhackable
The Great commission is still in full operation
You live in a bubble of deception and refuse to come outside of your fictitious bubble and learn about what is happening in the world around you
Most all governments are now working to create a One World Governmental system
Since you refuse to really open your eyes to see the fallacy in the deception in your bubble , your bubble will split open when you find yourself being to that if you want to have a paycheck, electricity food and all other things you will have to pay for them with digital currency , then the next step after that will be you having to make the choice that you accept the mark that shows your allegiance to the Man of Sin/Lawlessness or be the target of Him as he will not tolerate any other God to be worshipped

claninja · Nov 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
Still you fall way short , you have an epic fail

This is a common argument type used when a person cannot defend his/her own beliefs. Don't change the topic, if you don't have answers, then just say so.

seventysevens said:
You insist that Jesus will not come to earth

Straw man argument.

seventysevens said:
in some countries this is the case right now , you can be jailed if you refuse to stop trying to pay for things with paper money .

What country? also if don't you pay for things with money, wouldn't that be stealing?

seventysevens said:
Most all governments are now working to create a One World Governmental system

Where is the one world government mentioned in the olivet discourse?

seventysevens said:
Since you refuse to really open your eyes to see the fallacy in the deception in your bubble , your bubble will split open when you find yourself being to that if you want to have a paycheck, electricity food and all other things you will have to pay for them with digital currency , then the next step after that will be you having to make the choice that you accept the mark that shows your allegiance to the Man of Sin/Lawlessness or be the target of Him as he will not tolerate any other God to be worshipped

You do realize you already have to use money (paper or plastic) for electricity, food, and all other things, don't you?

Again, just conspiracy theories.

seventysevens · Nov 22, 2017

claninja said:
What country? also if don't you pay for things with money, wouldn't that be stealing?

Where is the one world government mentioned in the olivet discourse?

You do realize you already have to use money (paper or plastic) for electricity, food, and all other things, don't you?

Again, just conspiracy theories.

Google is your friend , just do a google search of the things you ask me
You expect to find everything that will happen in history of man and the world regardless of topic matter in a few verses , there are 66 books of scripture about 33% speak of prophetic matters

I showed enough info that IF you want to learn you will have to put forth your own time your own efforts to seek out the facts.
You see only that what you want to see and choose to be blind to all the rest of the facts - that is your problem

There is literally 100's of thousands of web links that will provide you enough info to prove what I say 100s of times over but it is YOUR responsibility to look into it if you want the proof all you have to do is google the info I have given you , but you Prefer to believe the lie you believe and you are trying to get me to believe the lie with you , Not gonna happen not here not today not ever ,If it truly pleases you to believe the lie then go ahead continue in your deceptive bubble ,

You do not understand what you read , credit cards , atm, paying with cell phone , online banking are all precursors to the end game of 100% digital money , when all transactions are done online , your entire ability to buy or sell anything is controlled ,
Book of Revelation 13

But I am not going to waste my time trying to convince you of anything
Just like when the science of cloning animals and humans made the headlines and the public expressed disgust , all that changed is that it does not hit the news on tv anymore but the science still continues to create designer babies in a test tube
you live in a bubble seeking to get people to believe the lie you believe
Put your energy into seeking the truth of what is happening in the world outside your little bubble

claninja · Nov 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
Google is your friend , just do a google search of the things you ask me
You expect to find everything that will happen in history of man and the world regardless of topic matter in a few verses , there are 66 books of scripture about 33% speak of prophetic matters

I showed enough info that IF you want to learn you will have to put forth your own time your own efforts to seek out the facts.
You see only that what you want to see and choose to be blind to all the rest of the facts - that is your problem

There is literally 100's of thousands of web links that will provide you enough info to prove what I say 100s of times over but it is YOUR responsibility to look into it if you want the proof all you have to do is google the info I have given you , but you Prefer to believe the lie you believe and you are trying to get me to believe the lie with you , Not gonna happen not here not today not ever ,If it truly pleases you to believe the lie then go ahead continue in your deceptive bubble ,

You do not understand what you read , credit cards , atm, paying with cell phone , online banking are all precursors to the end game of 100% digital money , when all transactions are done online , your entire ability to buy or sell anything is controlled ,
Book of Revelation 13

But I am not going to waste my time trying to convince you of anything
Just like when the science of cloning animals and humans made the headlines and the public expressed disgust , all that changed is that it does not hit the news on tv anymore but the science still continues to create designer babies in a test tube
you live in a bubble seeking to get people to believe the lie you believe
Put your energy into seeking the truth of what is happening in the world outside your little bubble

Tried Googling "jail time for those who refuse to pay with paper money" nothing about what you mentioned came up, so I'm lead to believe that you are making it up.

Do you know how debates/arguments work? The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim. Please produce an article/link about "in some countries this is the case right now , you can be jailed if you refuse to stop trying to pay for things with paper money." I am genuinely interested if this story is true. Otherwise, your argument fall flat.

seventysevens said:
but you Prefer to believe the lie you believe and you are trying to get me to believe the lie with you , Not gonna happen not here not today not ever ,If it truly pleases you to believe the lie then go ahead continue in your deceptive bubble

Again, same thing could be said about you, so let's stick to objective arguments.

seventysevens · Nov 22, 2017

claninja said:
Tried Googling "jail time for those who refuse to pay with paper money" nothing about what you mentioned came up, so I'm lead to believe that you are making it up.

Do you know how debates/arguments work? The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim. Please produce an article/link about "in some countries this is the case right now , you can be jailed if you refuse to stop trying to pay for things with paper money." I am genuinely interested if this story is true. Otherwise, your argument fall flat.

Again, same thing could be said about you, so let's stick to objective arguments.

You made 1 feeble google search , searching the opposite of what I was speaking about , no wonder you found nothing , "they refused to pay cash"??? opposite of what I said
You make no effort to read Revelation 13
' try to google All the info I shared through the thread , as I said you see only what you want to see refusing to put your heart into- to do any real research

Try the other things I shared as there is massive amounts of data on them
go back through the thread and review what I said , if you show a real effort I can show you more , there is a massive amount of data proving the governments seeking to create and one world government , a digital monetary system and all the other things
if you want to listen to something with some real interesting facts of what has happened in the realm of economy try this

Blood Moons, The Shemitah

claninja · Nov 22, 2017

seventysevens said:
You made 1 feeble google search , searching the opposite of what I was speaking about , no wonder you found nothing , "they refused to pay cash"???
'

Here is what you said

seventysevens said:
in some countries this is the case right now , you can be jailed if you refuse to stop trying to pay for things with paper money .

It appears you don't even know what you said.

Just as I thought, you couldn't produce anything because you made it up.

seventysevens · Nov 22, 2017

claninja said:
Here is what you said

It appears you don't even know what you said.

Just as I thought, you couldn't produce anything because you made it up.

As I said you do not understand what you read
What that means is that when the police department and companies tell you that you are not to try to pay with cash and you continue to do so they can arrest you , In Greece just before their financial collapse they had a law, probably still do -that you can only use cash for items under $1000 , anything above $1000 you are not allowed to use cash , as companies want your money they would be forgiving but after you have been told a few times to stop the State gets involved to make sure you realize it is not allowed , if you persist to try to pay for expensive items with cash they can fine you or put you in jail;
This is a trend to get people to pay without using cash , in America we are constantly bombarded with companies trying to get us to pay with credit or some form of credit, online banking , pay with phone etc , all these things are increments to get people to accept a cashless society where cash is no more , the intent is to get to the point where cash will not be accepted anywhere , due to economic and political turmoil the process has been slowed but still going , true real research is a continued ongoing seeking of data that takes weeks months and years , giving up in a few minutes is not even worthy to be considered research
I can point you in a direction but I told you I will not try to prove anything as you are not willing to see outside your bubble
there is a push to recall currency as in $100 bills 50s and 20s
Why Killing Cash Makes Sense

What is Blockchain Technology? - CoinDesk
Bitcoin's Biggest Software Wallet Blockchain Adds Ethereum - CoinDesk
Bitcoin wallet ‘Blockchain’ adds Ethereum support
https://coincentral.com/best-bitcoin-wallet-reviews/
How does Bitcoin work? - Bitcoin
Bitcoin - Wikipedia
"In the time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act"

Truth7t7 · Nov 22, 2017

jgr said:
Yes.

bump for jgr, please respond to post #171?

jgr · Nov 22, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
How do you account for Matthew 24:29 "immediately after the tribulation of those days" relating to the timing of the second advent?

You have a 70AD tribulation, and a future second advent?

These events are tied together without a time gap?

Verse 29 is still historical. It is a metaphoric apocalytic description of the watershed event associated with the destruction of and in Jerusalem and Judea i.e. the final death knell of the Old Covenant spiritual economy, and its replacement by the New. Similar language is used in Acts 2 in association with another spiritual watershed event, the birth of the Church, where Peter quotes Joel.

Verses 30 and 31 are an apparent look into the Second Coming future, and I tend to gravitate to that understanding. However, even in verse 30 is a defensible case for continued historicity, where "they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" could be associated with Matthew 16:28 and 26:64. There are also some credible arguments for continued historicity in verse 31.

Verse 34 is unquestionably still historical.

Verse 36 and beyond is unquestionably future.

Truth7t7 · Nov 22, 2017

jgr said:
Verse 29 is still historical. It is a metaphoric apocalytic description of the watershed event associated with the destruction of and in Jerusalem and Judea i.e. the final death knell of the Old Covenant spiritual economy, and its replacement by the New. Similar language is used in Acts 2 in association with another spiritual watershed event, the birth of the Church, where Peter quotes Joel.

Verses 30 and 31 are an apparent look into the Second Coming future, and I tend to gravitate to that understanding. However, even in verse 30 is a defensible case for continued historicity, where "they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" could be associated with Matthew 16:28 and 26:64. There are also some credible arguments for continued historicity in verse 31.

Verse 34 is unquestionably still historical.

Verse 36 and beyond is unquestionably future.

Ok I now understand your belief, you symbolize "immediately after the tribulation of those days" in my opinion the bend and twist glue to keep your 70AD fulfillment of the "Great Tribulation" alive , while having a future second advent.

I strongly disagree with your symbolic interpretation.

The tribulation in Matthew 24:21 is directly tied in time to "immediately after" in Matthew 24:29, that depicts the second advent seen in Matthew 24:30 "they shall see the Son of Man coming"

We will disagree, The events are tied together in earthly time reference, that proves your 70AD fulfillment false in my opinion, because the "Second Advent" is a future event, as is the "Great Tribulation".

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

jgr · Nov 22, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Ok I now understand your belief, you symbolize "immediately after the tribulation of those days" in my opinion the bend and twist glue to keep your system alive

Is Acts 2 symbolized?

Allenbee · Nov 23, 2017

Hello...iv'e just left Christianchat.com because of silly argument.
This seems just as bad. Now why don't preterits go talk to other preterits, pretrib rapture with other pretrib inventors etc etc.
PLEASE...are there any private Bible students here ? NOT "Church" beliefs.

Brothers who need brothers to share THEIR personal study belief.

So...I would love to share about surviving the great tribulation up to our Lord's return.
After that we are under HIS cloud surely...as HIS wrath is on unbelievers.

Truth7t7 · Nov 23, 2017

Allenbee said:
Hello...iv'e just left Christianchat.com because of silly argument.
This seems just as bad. Now why don't preterits go talk to other preterits, pretrib rapture with other pretrib inventors etc etc.
PLEASE...are there any private Bible students here ? NOT "Church" beliefs.
Brothers who need brothers to share THEIR personal study belief.

So...I would love to share about surviving the great tribulation up to our Lord's return.
After that we are under HIS cloud surely...as HIS wrath is on unbelievers.

This is an open forum on eschatology, they have safe houses to fit your belief if your intimidated.
Start a new thread?

claninja · Nov 23, 2017

seventysevens said:
As I said you do not understand what you read
What that means is that when the police department and companies tell you that you are not to try to pay with cash and you continue to do so they can arrest you , In Greece just before their financial collapse they had a law, probably still do -that you can only use cash for items under $100 , anything above $100 you are not allowed to use cash , as companies want your money they would be forgiving but after you have been told a few times to stop the State gets involved to make sure you realize it is not allowed , if you persist to try to pay for expensive items with cash they can fine you or put you in jail;
This is a trend to get people to pay without using cash , in America we are constantly bombarded with companies trying to get us to pay with credit or some form of credit, online banking , pay with phone etc , all these things are increments to get people to accept a cashless society where cash is no more , the intent is to get to the point where cash will not be accepted anywhere , due to economic and political turmoil the process has been slowed but still going , true real research is a continued ongoing seeking of data that takes weeks months and years , giving up in a few minutes is not even worthy to be considered research
I can point you in a direction but I told you I will not try to prove anything as you are not willing to see outside your bubble
there is a push to recall currency as in $100 bills 50s and 20s
Why Killing Cash Makes Sense

What is Blockchain Technology? - CoinDesk
Bitcoin's Biggest Software Wallet Blockchain Adds Ethereum - CoinDesk
Bitcoin wallet ‘Blockchain’ adds Ethereum support
https://coincentral.com/best-bitcoin-wallet-reviews/
How does Bitcoin work? - Bitcoin
Bitcoin - Wikipedia
"In the time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act"

Interesting articles, and I seriously mean that. Thank you for sharing. But I still think the jail time is an exaggeration as you still have provided no evidence of that.

claninja · Nov 23, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
This is an open forum on eschatology, they have safe houses to fit your belief if your intimidated.
Start a new thread?

Agree, we may not all agree on certain aspects of theology, but learning from others is still a great thing. I feel like I have learned from you, even if I don’t agree with everything

seventysevens · Nov 23, 2017

claninja said:
Interesting articles, and I seriously mean that. Thank you for sharing. But I still think the jail time is an exaggeration as you still have provided no evidence of that.

You are welcome , if I decide to do the work for you I'll let you know ...but as I said people need to spend the time doing their own research in the same manner as a student in school need to do their own homework/research , that is how you truly learn. I love doing it , I do it every day. Just like Dupont Co. was doing R&D trying to develop a product other than Teflon ptfe non-stick products , the product Teflon was actually accidentally discovered while doing experiments .. I will be researching one topic and reading a lot of web links and always find things that are very interesting that I wasn't even trying to find , I will see an interesting statement in in a webpage then google it which pulls up dozens of other web pages regarding that matter , once you get the hang of it you'll be able to find just about anything you desire in just a very short time . Practice practice practice.
Just to throw something else out there , I seen this guy on TV talking about how military men over in the middle east came across a giant man that was about 20 feet tall , don't recall the exact height at the moment , but when the military men put this dead giant on a big cart and brought it to the top military brass , they were not allowed to take pictures , calling it a matter of national security. So I googled it and found articles about it and info that supported the story of the Vatican agency called the Entity that has taken hundreds of recovered skeletons all 18 ft tall to 30+ feet tall and they are kept in a Huge vault in the Vatican. News paper articles back in the 1800s and earlier were common to speak of such giant skeletons. The Vatican vault is more protected than the Pentagon or Ft Knox and only on rare occasions is anyone permitted to enter into it . It be up to you look into it if you want to know about it

jgr · Nov 23, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
Ok I now understand your belief, you symbolize "immediately after the tribulation of those days" in my opinion the bend and twist glue to keep your 70AD fulfillment of the "Great Tribulation" alive , while having a future second advent.

I strongly disagree with your symbolic interpretation.

The tribulation in Matthew 24:21 is directly tied in time to "immediately after" in Matthew 24:29, that depicts the second advent seen in Matthew 24:30 "they shall see the Son of Man coming"

We will disagree, The events are tied together in earthly time reference, that proves your 70AD fulfillment false in my opinion, because the "Second Advent" is a future event, as is the "Great Tribulation".

Jesus Christ Is Lord

Truth7t7

Hey Truth7t7, still waiting.

Is Acts 2:16-21 "symbolized"?

Truth7t7 · Nov 24, 2017

jgr said:
Hey Truth7t7, still waiting.

Is Acts 2:16-21 "symbolized"?

We will disagree

The verses as shown below are tied together in a earthly time frame,.

You cant have a 70AD tribulation and yet a future second advent, separated by 2,000 years.

Acts 2:16-21 has no bearing, nor is it related to the isolated verses mentioned. I disagree with your Acts 2 reference.

Your interpretation disregards verse 29, this is literal "immediately after the tribulation of those days" and is the obstacle to your 70AD fulfillment.

Matthew 24:21 "Great Tribulation"

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days"

Matthew 24:30 "They shall see the Son of Man coming"

The verses mentioned will be fulfilled in the future, because we know the second advent has not taken place.

We will disagree

Truth7t7

BABerean2 · Nov 24, 2017

Truth7t7 said:
You cant have a 70AD tribulation and yet a future second advent, separated by 2,000 years.

Carefully read your statement above and then realize that we are told in the New Testament to expect tribulation.

What did the Apostle John say below?

Rev_1:9　 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It is estimated by some that during the Roman siege of 70 AD about a million were killed or sold into slavery. Some estimates are higher.
Josephus was a leader of the Jewish forces who later recorded that women became so hungry that they ate their own children. I would call that "tribulation", when used as John used the word above.

Was there tremendous tribulation upon the Jews during 70 AD?
Yes. Nobody can deny it.
Jesus predicted it in the passages below.

Luk 19:40　 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.　
Luk 19:41　 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,　
Luk 19:42　 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.　
Luk 19:43　 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,　
Luk 19:44　 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.　

Luk 23:26　 And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.　

Luk 23:27　 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.　

Luk 23:28　 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.　

Luk 23:29　 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.　

Luk 23:30　 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.　

Luk 23:31　 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

There is a clear correlation between the two passages above and parts of the Olivet Discourse.
Notice the comments about the stones and nursing mothers.

Was 70 AD the final end-time "Great Tribulation" which lies in the future?
No, but it was a time of "great tribulation".
This is a fact nobody can honestly deny.

Our time here would be better served if we quit arguing over this point and focus instead on the clear text.

I love you, Brother.

.

　

Matthew 25 Jesus Returns In Final Judgment, Eternal Kingdom

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