Do you see sin mentioned in Rom 8:35-39? Yes or no?
No, but I see the words "nor
anything else in
all creation".
Do you see the words "none of these things can separate us from God's love, only sin can do that", in Romans 8:38-39? Yes or no?
While we WERE sinners (unsaved) God demonstrates his love by sending his son to atone for man's sins. However once we BECAME saints we need to maintain an obedient/abiding relationship with God.
So God effectively said, "I will love sinners ONCE until they know me; after that, they have to earn my love"?
Where does Scripture say that God loves us if we don't sin but withdraws that love if we do?
God did not send his son so we could go on sinning
No, of course he didn't.
God showed his love for us by sending Jesus to die while we were still sinners, Romans 5:6-8.
Knowing that God has forgiven us, Christ ha cleansed us and we are free from sin, does NOT mean we can do whatever we like, including to sin. As I have said, this is what the Corinthian church believed, and Paul had to correct their error.
We love because God first loved us, and because we know we are loved and forgiven we go out and show our love for God by living for him, and as he wants us to live. But that doesn't mean that if we sin, God withdraws his love.
Sin is deliberate rebellion and disobedience against God, and falling short of his glory. Scripture also says, however, that if someone knows what to do and does not do it; it is sin.
How many times do you sin in a day? How many times are your thoughts, words, dreams, actions etc 100% pure? How many times do you KNOW you should do something - give to the poor, do the dishes, pray - but do not do it?
Are you really saying that God starts off by loving us, withdraws, and then reinstates, that love hundreds of times in one day? How exhausting for God. How uncertain for us; never having assurance, never being sure, at any given point, whether God loves us or whether we are harboring an unconfessed sin which has cut off his love.
Paul plainly warned the Roman brethren that if they live according to the flesh, they will die. No ifs and or buts.
Yes, if we constantly live according to the flesh, gratifying the sinful nature, and don't repent; we will.
He tells us in Galatians the actions that result from walking in the flesh. John also says this - walking in the flesh is the same as walking in darkness. If we CLAIM to walk in the light but hate our brothers or do any other deeds of darkness, we are deceiving ourselves. If we claim we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves; if we confess our sins God will forgive and cleanse us.
Nowhere does it say "as soon as you sin, God will stop loving you, and will only start again if you repent."
Spiritual death by its very definition means eternal separation from God and his love.
A person is only
eternally separated from God and his love if they are dead, they rejected him while alive and they are now not able to repent.
To claim that God's love "can't get through" is very doubtful as those who end up in the lake of fire are tormented forever. Do you really believe that God is still trying to express his love at that point?
You seem to be talking only about people who have died. I'm talking about people who are alive, yet may sin and temporarily not feel God's love or forgiveness.
God doesn't SEND anyone to hell; he honours the choices that person has made while they were alive. If someone constantly and continually refuses to repent, and rejects God and his forgiveness; when they die, they will continue to live without him - for all eternity. And yes, I do believe that is love; to allow someone to do something that THEY have chosen. It wouldn't be love to say "you hated me while you were on earth, I'm now going to FORCE you to be with me". That wouldn't be possible anyway because the person would have died in their sins; but love does not force itself on anyone, or force them to love back.
So if the prodigal returned to home to his father without repenting, would the father still love him?
As I said, the father hugged and kissed his son BEFORE the son had repented - see Luke 15:20.
The father wanted his son home - and showed his love and joy when the son returned home. Nowhere are we told that the father said, "ok, now that you've repented, you may have your hug. Before you get the cloak, ring and party you have to promise not to go off again, and if I hear you criticising or grumbling, we stop the party and I'll have the ring back."
Jesus stated twice that the prodigal was dead = spiritually dead.
He was at that point. He was separated from his father and from God by his sin.
That doesn't mean that either of them stopped loving him.
I don't know if you have children.
If you do, do you reject and stop loving them, the first time they do something wrong, or any time that they sin? If they chose a lifestyle that you didn't approve of, would you stop loving them, and only start again once they adopted your values and started doing what you wanted? If they borrowed your car without asking and crashed it/took your credit card without you knowing and bought something you wouldn't approve of; would you stop loving them, stop being a loving father, and disown them until they had repented? If you would; with respect, I pity your children.
God is not like that.
Spiritual death defined is separation from the love of God. If the prodigal did not repent, he would have remained spiritually dead and separated from God's love.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that God would have stopped loving him, and stopped looking out for him, hoping he would come home and giving him opportunities to repent.
Paul says that love perseveres,
always hopes,
always trusts and never fails, 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. NOT that love gives up and withdraws if the other person fails to appreciate it or show love back.
Yes while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. However once sinners trust in the atoning blood of Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins, obedience is required for eternal life (Heb 5:9).
So you're saying that Jesus saves us from sin, but only by our works and own achievements will we get eternal life?
That's not what Jesus said. He said that whoever believes in him will have eternal life, John 4:14, John 6:40, John 10:10, John 14:6.
John said that whoever has the Son has life, John 3:16, John 3:36, 1 John 5:12. Not that whoever believes in Jesus has been saved and will get eternal life, and remain loved by God, if they work hard.
To continue in HABITUAL sin is to live according to the flesh which results in spiritual death.
Yes, RESULTS IN - after we die.
And that is
habitual, and unconfessed, sin. I'm talking about when we sin in our everyday lives and then confess; I have said that we are separated from God, and his forgiveness, until we repent. Even then, God doesn't withdraw his love until we have said sorry or done something to prove ourselves.
God can no longer love someone who lives according to the flesh as that person demonstrates an unrepentant lifestyle.
God IS love; we are told in Scripture that love perseveres and never fails.
God doesn't HAVE love, that he either shows or withholds; he IS love. I don't believe he can stop loving or he would stop being God.
No repentance = no forgiveness = no love.
That's not what Scripture says.
God loves sinners - people who don't know him, are godless, maybe even hate him and don't show signs of wanting to repent.
There is no Scripture which says that after they are saved they have to earn eternal life and his love, and that either will be withdrawn if they don't live up to expectations.
Jesus once said to his disciples, "If you love only those who love you, what reward will you get? Even the tax collectors do that. .......... Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:46-48.
Why would he have said that if he knew that God would only love them if they continued to love him and not sin? He would have been asking them to be better than God - "you must love those who don't show you love, but my Father will only love you if you love him."
Whatever Jesus asked us to do; he set the example. He showed us exactly what God is like, by his life and actions.
