GOD'S LAW AND THE SABBATH AND FOLLOWING MAN MADE TRADTIONS?

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stuart lawrence

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Ami I going to hell for not keeping Saturday Sabbath? Yes or no.

As you are unlikely to get a straight answer.....

According to 'official' (sometimes) sda doctrine, you go to hell if you do not observe a set Saturday Sabbath. However, the sda church accepts as Christians those who do not observe a set Saturday Sabbath.
Confusing?
I wouldn't blame you for thinking that!
 
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As you are unlikely to get a straight answer.....

According to 'official' (sometimes) sda doctrine, you go to hell if you do not observe a set Saturday Sabbath. However, the sda church accepts as Christians those who do not observe a set Saturday Sabbath.
Confusing?
I wouldn't blame you for thinking that!
And to further complicate it, I would change the wording to "Do I lose my salvation if..." only because the point can be made that "hell" is a symbol and not a real place. Hades, on the other hand...
 
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stuart lawrence

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And to further complicate it, I would change the wording to "Do I lose my salvation if..." only because the point can be made that "hell" is a symbol and not a real place. Hades, on the other hand...
Welcome to CF. I am sure the site will benefit from your input.
I haven't heard hell and hades put as you have described in the above, but it seems right to me, and I trust the Spirit in me convicts me of right and wrong.
Doesn't mean I am infallible of course, far from it, but better to trust in the Holy Spirit than yourself and your little grey cells.
 
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As you are unlikely to get a straight answer.....

According to 'official' (sometimes) sda doctrine, you go to hell if you do not observe a set Saturday Sabbath. However, the sda church accepts as Christians those who do not observe a set Saturday Sabbath.
Confusing?
I wouldn't blame you for thinking that!
That isn't evidenced on this forum. They continue to evangelize professed Christians. Yes they're seeking conversion.
 
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stuart lawrence

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That isn't evidenced on this forum. They continue to evangelize professed Christians. Yes they're seeking conversion.
They all accepted me as a Christian at The sda church I went to, including the minister. Doug Bachelor, a leading light in the sda also seems to accept people as Christians who do not hold to a set Saturday Sabbath. Ive never met any sda member in the flesh who will tell you otherwise. Possibly on the internet sda stick to the official(sometimes) line.
 
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bekkilyn

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As you are unlikely to get a straight answer.....

According to 'official' (sometimes) sda doctrine, you go to hell if you do not observe a set Saturday Sabbath. However, the sda church accepts as Christians those who do not observe a set Saturday Sabbath.
Confusing?
I wouldn't blame you for thinking that!

Here's the thing. According to SDA interpretation of biblical prophecy, there is going to come a time when the U.S. is going to enforce Sunday worship by law, and at that time, anyone who worships on Sunday will obtain the mark of the beast, and anyone who worships on Saturday will have the seal of God.

Neither Saturday or Sunday worship will send anyone to hell because SDA do not believe in a literal hell. People will either have eternal life with Jesus or be utterly destroyed. There is no in-between or *eternal* punishment.

In short, Sunday worship = mark of the beast, and keeping the Saturday sabbath = seal of God.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Here's the thing. According to SDA interpretation of biblical prophecy, there is going to come a time when the U.S. is going to enforce Sunday worship by law, and at that time, anyone who worships on Sunday will obtain the mark of the beast, and anyone who worships on Saturday will have the seal of God.

Neither Saturday or Sunday worship will send anyone to hell because SDA do not believe in a literal hell. People will either have eternal life with Jesus or be utterly destroyed. There is no in-between or *eternal* punishment.

In short, Sunday worship = mark of the beast, and keeping the Saturday sabbath = seal of God.
Thanks. I didn't know sda believe non believers will be utterly destroyed and not suffer eternity in hell/hades
 
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Here's the thing. According to SDA interpretation of biblical prophecy, there is going to come a time when the U.S. is going to enforce Sunday worship by law, and at that time, anyone who worships on Sunday will obtain the mark of the beast, and anyone who worships on Saturday will have the seal of God.

Neither Saturday or Sunday worship will send anyone to hell because SDA do not believe in a literal hell. People will either have eternal life with Jesus or be utterly destroyed. There is no in-between or *eternal* punishment.

In short, Sunday worship = mark of the beast, and keeping the Saturday sabbath = seal of God.
Your post actually exposes something interesting about the Christian community. I'm not SDA and disagree pretty strongly with the "U.S centric" prophesy, but completely agree regarding "hell". And this speaks to the latter: Jewishnotgreek.com
 
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Thanks. I didn't know sda believe non believers will be utterly destroyed and not suffer eternity in hell/hades
See my post above this one. A very good read. I changed to that position 7 years ago but came upon that site a few months ago.
 
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Bob S

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The same as there is no command that says God's 4th commandment is now abolished and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
Yes, there is plenty of scripture that tells Christians that we are not under the law. One of the most obvious is 2Cor3:7-11 where Paul is explaining the new covenant. In those verses it is quite obvious the topic is the 10 commandments and Paul is explaining that the 10 are no longer the guide. Jews were trying to impose the law on new Christian believers and Paul was setting them straight.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

The word transitory means temporary and it was used two times in his letter. Also, note that the 10 commandments now have no glory. The surpassing glory is the Holy Spirit which is our ministry. Do you notice that Paul wrote all this in past tense? Remember Jesus statement:
John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Did the 10 commandments teach all things? It didn't even have a command to love, the greatest command according to Jesus our Savior. Allow the Holy Spirit to live in our hearts and He will teach us all things. Does the Holy Spirit inspire anyone to start observing the 4th commandment. If it did then why would the SDA church spend millions after millions trying to persuade listeners to keep Sabbath and only a handful ever respond to the invitation? If it is the 10 that is written on the heart as we are told by some then it would seem to me that people wouldn't have to be lectured that the world is going to hell for not observing what they have stated to be the truth. Well, we can plainly read that the 10 commandments with its ritual Sabbath sandwiched in the middle is not the Christian's guide and those that tell us differently are ignoring what is so very revealing. Sin IS transgression of the law, but where there is no law there is no sin. The 10 have faded away and the Holy Spirit teaching the law of love has taken its place. The law of love is that great theme of the New Testament. Our new covenant law covers all sins not just nine.
 
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stuart lawrence

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See my post above this one. A very good read. I changed to that position 7 years ago but came upon that site a few months ago.
I was involved in a debate a while back about this question. As with many subjects, each side had scripture to bring forth to support their particular view
 
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They all accepted me as a Christian at The sda church I went to, including the minister. Doug Bachelor, a leading light in the sda also seems to accept people as Christians who do not hold to a set Saturday Sabbath. Ive never met any sda member in the flesh who will tell you otherwise. Possibly on the internet sda stick to the official(sometimes) line.
There seems to an exception to everything. Personally I think what is on the surface in accepting some as Christians is nothing more than a deceiving front like calling people a person doesn't know friend or brother.
 
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bekkilyn

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There seems to an exception to everything. Personally I think what is on the surface in accepting some as Christians is nothing more than a deceiving front like calling people a person doesn't know friend or brother.

SDA do believe there are Jesus-loving Christians outside of their denomination, but that once a person is aware of "the truth" according to SDA doctrine, they are supposed to come away from those apostate denominations and join the SDA church, that they consider to be the true, remnant church of prophecy. Once this remnant has reached Christ-like perfection through appropriate obedience, then Jesus will be able to return.
 
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SDA do believe there are Jesus-loving Christians outside of their denomination, but that once a person is aware of "the truth" according to SDA doctrine, they are supposed to come away from those apostate denominations and join the SDA church, that they consider to be the true, remnant church of prophecy. Once this remnant has reached Christ-like perfection through appropriate obedience, then Jesus will be able to return.
In-other-words when a person's attention is brought to observing the 4th commandment without compliance they're no longer a Christian and violate their salvation. Bob S has quoted an appropriate quote from their official publications.
 
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Bob S

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I thank you for leading us to the website. I especially like the following: " He sat down and rested—ceased from His labor of atonement because there was nothing more to be done, ever. Because of what He did, we no longer have to "labor" in law-keeping in order to be justified in the sight of God. Jesus was sent so that we might rest in God and in what He has provided.

The writer goes on to tell us "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27), Jesus was restating the principle that the Sabbath rest was instituted to relieve man of his labors, just as He came to relieve us of our attempting to achieve salvation by our works. We no longer rest for only one day, but forever cease our laboring to attain God’s favor. Jesus is our rest from works now, just as He is the door to heaven, where we will rest in Him forever.

Hebrews 4 is the definitive passage regarding Jesus as our Sabbath rest. The writer to the Hebrews exhorts his readers to “enter in” to the Sabbath rest provided by Christ. After three chapters of telling them that Jesus is superior to the angels and that He is our Apostle and High Priest, he pleads with them to not harden their hearts against Him, as their fathers hardened their hearts against the Lord in the wilderness. Because of their unbelief, God denied that generation access to the holy land, saying, “They shall not enter into My rest” (Hebrews 3:11). In the same way, the writer to the Hebrews begs his readers not to make the same mistake by rejecting God’s Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ. “There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience” (Hebrews 4:9–11).

There is no other Sabbath rest besides Jesus. He alone satisfies the requirements of the Law, and He alone provides the sacrifice that atones for sin. He is God’s plan for us to cease from the labor of our own works. We dare not reject this one-and-only Way of salvation (John 14:6). God’s reaction to those who choose to reject His plan is seen in Numbers 15. A man was found gathering sticks on the Sabbath day, in spite of God’s plain commandment to cease from all labor on the Sabbath. This transgression was a known and willful sin, done with unblushing boldness in broad daylight, in open defiance of the divine authority. “Then the LORD said to Moses, ‘The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp’” (verse 35). So it will be to all who reject God’s provision for our Sabbath rest in Christ. “How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?” (Hebrews 2:3).

The writer of Hebrews was directing the book to Jews. Had he been telling them they were to "keep" Sabbath he would have been "preaching to the choir". They were already ardent Sabbath keepers. They all knew the law concerning not turning their foot, thinking their own thoughts and all the other requirements.

Yes Jesus our Rest is in You!
 
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Bob S

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SDA do believe there are Jesus-loving Christians outside of their denomination, but that once a person is aware of "the truth" according to SDA doctrine, they are supposed to come away from those apostate denominations and join the SDA church, that they consider to be the true, remnant church of prophecy. Once this remnant has reached Christ-like perfection through appropriate obedience, then Jesus will be able to return.
As long as they are ignorant of the Sabbath those not SDA get a pass. What Christian has never read the 10 commandments. Who would be "ignorant" that at one time there was a weekly Sabbath for the children of Israel? They get their lead from Ellen White in the following: "No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, *can be held guiltless in the sight of God." {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

"All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the *Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light."{HS 234.3}

*Emphasis mine. Salvation by works of the law?????
 
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Bob S

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To be fair to some SDA ministers..... One woman who read from the 'Clear word' bible brought a wry response from the minister:

Ah, you are reading from the not so clear word.

You either read the bible led of your rational mind in your thinking/understanding, or you read it led of the Holy Spirit into truth. Those who are led of their rational minds believe obeying the law/TC is what salvation hinges on, for the rational mind knows you get what you earn, what you deserve. That is the way of the world. Only those led of the Holy Spirit in spiritual understanding know obeying the TC is not salvational, for only the Holy Spirit can turn on the light of the true message. For he is the one who leads believers into truth
I have stated before on the forum that some in the church and even pastors are seeing the light coming through the cracks in the foundation of the church. My SDA son-in-law tells me his pastor never quotes the prophet and his sermons are Christ centered. Praise the Lord. They are reading the truths from scripture.

P. S. My son-in-law is not a believer in the prophet. He has read enough to know she was not what the church holds her up to be. I am glad he assembles with faith filled believers and knows to discern what not to believe.
 
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bekkilyn

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I have stated before on the forum that some in the church and even pastors are seeing the light coming through the cracks in the foundation of the church. My SDA son-in-law tells me his pastor never quotes the prophet and his sermons are Christ centered. Praise the Lord. They are reading the truths from scripture.

P. S. My son-in-law is not a believer in the prophet. He has read enough to know she was not what the church holds her up to be. I am glad he assembles with faith filled believers and knows to discern what not to believe.

SDA seems to now be preaching salvation by faith through grace alone, but this concept does also seem to conflict with the idea that observing Saturday Sabbath is *mandatory* for salvation. I think at some point down the line, the SDA church is going to need to decide how they will resolve that conflict because it really can't go both ways.
 
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Oh but the SDA church does teach that there is a Hell. Their Hell is just hotter than those who believe in eternal punishment. The church does believe in degrees of punishment in Hell. Read what the revered prophet wrote on the subject:

"But those who have not, through repentance and faith, secured pardon, must receive the penalty of transgression—“the wages of sin.” They suffer punishment varying in duration and intensity, “according to their works,” but finally ending in the second death. Since it is impossible for God, consistently with His justice and mercy, to save the sinner in his sins, He deprives him of the existence which his transgressions have forfeited and of which he has proved himself unworthy. Says an inspired writer: “Yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.” And another declares: “They shall be as though they had not been.” Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16. Covered with infamy, they sink into hopeless, eternal oblivion." {GC 544.2}
 
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