The Millennium

jgr · Oct 29, 2017

Quasar92 said:
No! Reference to the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, in Mt.6:10 has not been fulfilled yet. Why do you think we are till praying the Lord's prayer? That is one of the anomalies of Amillennialism. Review the following critique of it:

CRITIQUE OF AMILLENNIALISM THEOLOGY

Amillennialism is one of the many views regarding the Millennial Kingdom—the thousand-year reign of Christ during the end times. The names of these beliefs (including premillennialism and postmillennialism) do not refer to when the Millennial Kingdom will occur, but to when Christ will return to earth in relation to the kingdom. "Amillennialism" is a bit of a misnomer. Linguistically, the word means there will be no ("a") thousand-year ("millennial") kingdom. In actuality, those who ascribe to amillennialism believe that the millennial kingdom is not literal. That is, it is neither one thousand years nor a physical reign of Christ. Amillennialism was championed by St. Augustine and is the view held by the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, and many Protestants.

The point of the Millennial Kingdom has always been to establish Christ's rule on earth and to fulfill the prophecies of God's blessings on His people that have yet to be fulfilled (Deuteronomy 29:1-29; 1 Chronicles 17:11-14; Jeremiah 31:31, 33). Like postmillennialism, amillennialism "spiritualizes" the prophecies regarding the end times—refuses to take them literally. This leads to two specific characteristics.

To whom the prophecies refer: Like postmillennialists, amillennialists believe in replacement theology or supersessionism. This theology teaches that the unfulfilled prophecies promising peace under Christ's reign and blessings to His people do not apply to Israel. They believe Israel's work in God's plan is finished and all unfulfilled prophecies have been transferred to the church. This is a common view despite the fact that no literal interpretation of the Bible supports it.

How the prophecies will be fulfilled: Amillennialism goes even further than postmillennialism in spiritualizing the prophecies by claiming they will not be fulfilled literally. The peaceful kingdom (Micah 4:2-4), the lion laying down with the lamb (Isaiah 11:6-9), and the borders of the Palestinian covenant (Genesis 17:7-8) are all considered metaphors along with the thousand-year time period (Revelation 20:2-7). Instead, amillennialism teaches that the millennial kingdom is manifest either in the hearts of the saints who have died and now rest with Him (the minority view) or in the hearts of all who follow Him on earth (the most common belief). This point of view, and the scholars who originated it, is informed more by Greek philosophy than biblical truth. The popular view of Gnosticism taught that the physical was corrupted, and only the spiritual was capable of good. It was a short slide to then believe that the perfect Son of God could not rule over a physical kingdom, so His reign must be over the immaterial hearts and souls of mankind.

Amillennialism alters the timeline of the end times to fit these two views. Christ's kingdom was established at His resurrection. The "first resurrection" (Revelation 20:4-6) does not refer to the physical resurrection of the saints, as premillennialism teaches, but to a spiritual resurrection, that is, the point in history when the Holy Spirit became available to dwell in the hearts of the believers. The "kingdom," then, is a kingdom in spirit only and lasts until Jesus' second coming. The second coming is concurrent with the rapture of the believers. Everyone will be judged, and then the second resurrection will return physical bodies to souls. The eternal state will immediately follow.

Like many theological beliefs, amillennialism was born from a combination of human cultural influence and a reluctance to believe God meant His Word as literal truth. Despite the many ways scholars try to convince us otherwise, God did not create the physical to be bad. Adam and Eve had physical bodies on a physical world, and God called it "very good" (Genesis 1:31). God came down to earth as a physical being (Luke 2). When Jesus was resurrected, it was with a physical body (Luke 24:42-43). And the prophecies that have been fulfilled were done so literally and physically. There is no need for a different method of interpretation—God's power is not dependent upon our ability to understand how He will manifest it.

Amillennialism - What is it?

Quasar92

Why all the verbiage? All you had to do was quote the sick, sad, sorry rendition of the verse from the premillennial bible:

"For thine is not yet the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever; until the millennium."

Quasar92 · Oct 29, 2017

Barney said:
Shortly after that, Jesus says, "But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." The kingdom of heaven was not coming in a physical sense, but in a spiritual sense.

I think if people actually read the Bible, most of these disputes (and dispensationalism) would disappear.

None of the above negates the fact that the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth has taken place yet, as the Scriptures clearly teach. Confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Zech.12:10; 14:4-4; Rev.19:11-21 and Rev.20:6.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Oct 29, 2017

LastSeven said:
Of course it doesn't actually say that but I guess your Bible College professors never made much of a fuss about accuracy in reading comprehension.

Rev.20:6 is confirmed in Zech.14:4-5 for starters, genius.

Quaar92

jgr · Oct 29, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Rev.20:6 is confirmed in Zech.14:4-5 for starters, genius.

Quaar92

Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection, which raises us up from the first death, the spiritual death of our sins, to spiritual life, is the salvation experience which makes us blessed and holy:

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

For those of us who experience the first resurrection; the second death, i.e. the physical death which we all face; no longer has the power to separate us eternally from God, for Christ has declared that whoever believes in Him will never die (John 11:26), and Paul tells us that “death is swallowed up in victory” (1 Corinthians 15:54).

This resurrection elevates us as spiritual kings and priests immediately upon experiencing it (Revelation 1:6, 1 Peter 2:9), and we begin our spiritual reign immediately with Christ (Romans 5:17,21; Ephesians 2:6). Believers in Christ for the past 2000 years have borne testimony to this reality, so we know that the 1000 years is not a literal period, but rather one of an ultimate duration known only to a God whose durations are not ours (Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8).

This is the message of Revelation 20 to all who will accept Christ's free gift of salvation; the blessings and benefits of the first resurrection are theirs to experience and enjoy for time and eternity.

DeaconDean · Oct 29, 2017

This is truly funny.

I would like to know where in scripture we are told that a person has to have a degree, especially in eschatology, to preach, teach, or expound the scriptures.?

Considering the disciples, of the twelve, perhaps the most educated was Matthew, after all, being a tax-collector, he had to have some knowledge of math.

Of the later apostles, perhaps Paul was the most educated. He was a Pharisee, so he knew the law, he knew several languages too.

In the 52 states that make up the United States of America, of all the seminaries in the U.S.A., of all the denominations that have seminaries, there is only one (1) that offers a degree in "Eschatology".

There is an old saying:

"God doesn't call the equipped, He equips the called."

Some here have forgotten that.

So the question is asked: "Show me in scripture, where one has to a degree to teach, preach, or expound on the scriptures?"

God Bless

Till all are one.

Quasar92 · Oct 29, 2017

jgr said:
Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection, which raises us up from the first death, the spiritual death of our sins, to spiritual life, is the salvation experience which makes us blessed and holy:

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

For those of us who experience the first resurrection; the second death, i.e. the physical death which we all face; no longer has the power to separate us eternally from God, for Christ has declared that whoever believes in Him will never die (John 11:26), and Paul tells us that “death is swallowed up in victory” (1 Corinthians 15:54).

This resurrection elevates us as spiritual kings and priests immediately upon experiencing it (Revelation 1:6, 1 Peter 2:9), and we begin our spiritual reign immediately with Christ (Romans 5:17,21; Ephesians 2:6). Believers in Christ for the past 2000 years have borne testimony to this reality, so we know that the 1000 years is not a literal period, but rather one of an ultimate duration known only to a God whose durations are not ours (Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8).

This is the message of Revelation 20 to all who will accept Christ's free gift of salvation; the blessings and benefits of the first resurrection are theirs to experience and enjoy for time and eternity.

The Church is in heaven for the marriage to the Lamb, in Rev.10:7-8. Jesus will then return to the earth in His second coming WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, following Him, in His armies from heaven, in verse 14. Please explain to me how the Church could possibly be in the first resurrection recorded in Rev20:4.

Quasar92

BABerean2 · Oct 30, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Please explain to me how the Church could possibly be in the first resurrection recorded in Rev20:4.

John 5:24

(CJB)　 Yes, indeed! I tell you that whoever hears what I am saying and trusts the One who sent me has eternal life -- that is, he will not come up for judgment but has already crossed over from death to life!

(ESV)　 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

(Geneva)　 Verely, verely I say vnto you, he that heareth my worde, and beleeueth him that sent me, hath euerlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death vnto life.

(GW)　 I can guarantee this truth: Those who listen to what I say and believe in the one who sent me will have eternal life. They won't be judged because they have already passed from death to life.

(LITV-TSP)　 Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

(KJV)　 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(KJV+)　 Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 (G3754) He that hearethG191 myG3450 word,G3056 andG2532 believethG4100 on him that sentG3992 me,G3165 hathG2192 everlastingG166 life,G2222 andG2532 shall notG3756 comeG2064 intoG1519 condemnation;G2920 butG235 is passedG3327 fromG1537 deathG2288 untoG1519 life.G2222

(NKJV)　 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

(YLT)　 'Verily, verily, I say to you—He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.

The second resurrection is found in John 5:27-30.

If Revelation 20:4 were truly the first bodily resurrection, it would kill your pretrib rapture doctrine.

.

Barney · Oct 30, 2017

Quasar92 said:
None of the above negates the fact that the 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth has taken place yet, as the Scriptures clearly teach. Confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Zech.12:10; 14:4-4; Rev.19:11-21 and Rev.20:6.

Quasar92

Your verse number spamming is just a list of verses that you misinterpret.

Quasar92 · Oct 30, 2017

BABerean2 said:
John 5:24

(CJB)　 Yes, indeed! I tell you that whoever hears what I am saying and trusts the One who sent me has eternal life -- that is, he will not come up for judgment but has already crossed over from death to life!

(ESV)　 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

(Geneva)　 Verely, verely I say vnto you, he that heareth my worde, and beleeueth him that sent me, hath euerlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but hath passed from death vnto life.

(GW)　 I can guarantee this truth: Those who listen to what I say and believe in the one who sent me will have eternal life. They won't be judged because they have already passed from death to life.

(LITV-TSP)　 Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

(KJV)　 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

(KJV+)　 Verily,G281 verily,G281 I sayG3004 unto you,G5213 (G3754) He that hearethG191 myG3450 word,G3056 andG2532 believethG4100 on him that sentG3992 me,G3165 hathG2192 everlastingG166 life,G2222 andG2532 shall notG3756 comeG2064 intoG1519 condemnation;G2920 butG235 is passedG3327 fromG1537 deathG2288 untoG1519 life.G2222

(NKJV)　 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

(YLT)　 'Verily, verily, I say to you—He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.

The second resurrection is found in John 5:27-30.

If Revelation 20:4 were truly the first bodily resurrection, it would kill your pretrib rapture doctrine.

.

Not a single passage of Scripture in the above to answer the question I posed, that you quoted: Please tell me how the Church can be in the first resurrection, in Rev.20:4, when they are documented in heaven with Jesus, for the marriage, in Rev.19:7-8. Then when He returns in His second coming to the earth, the Church will come with Him, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean. in His armies from heaven, in Rev.19:14, BEFORE the first resurrection takes pace in Rev.20:4!

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Oct 30, 2017

Barney said:
Your verse number spamming is just a list of verses that you misinterpret.

Show me where any of the Scriptures I posted in #62 are not relevant to Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth. I can quote you many more, if you call quoting Scriptural support for the interpretations I make, 'spamming.'

Quasar92

Barney · Oct 30, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Show me where any of the Scriptures I posted in #62 are not relevant to Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth. I can quote you many more, if you call quoting Scriptural support for the interpretations I make, 'spamming.'

Quasar92

You didn't quote any verse. You just spammed verse numbers, and pretended that what those numbers point to somehow supports you.

I quoted a verse that shows undeniably that in at least that verse, the kingdom of heaven on earth is not a physical and political government. And, that alone can fulfill Jesus' prayer, "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven."

Not only to you spam verses and pretend they say something they don't, but you make another error of the terminally wrong, you look for the verses that you imagine support you rather than tackle the verses that contradict you. I directly responded to the Lord's prayer verse which was allegedly to contradict me. You avoided what I said.

BABerean2 · Oct 30, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Not a single passage of Scripture in the above to answer the question I posed, that you quoted: Please tell me how the Church can be in the first resurrection, in Rev.20:4, when they are documented in heaven with Jesus, for the marriage, in Rev.19:7-8. Then when He returns in His second coming to the earth, the Church will come with Him, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean. in His armies from heaven, in Rev.19:14, BEFORE the first resurrection takes pace in Rev.20:4!

Quasar92

They died.

Both John the Baptist and the Apostle Paul were beheaded and are there now.

We have Christ returning in Revelation chapter 16 and also in chapter 19.
Therefore, we know the book is not in chronological order.
Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions, which is confirmed by the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

.

Quasar92 · Oct 30, 2017

Barney said:
You didn't quote any verse. You just spammed verse numbers, and pretended that what those numbers point to somehow supports you.

I quoted a verse that shows undeniably that in at least that verse, the kingdom of heaven on earth is not a physical and political government. And, that alone can fulfill Jesus' prayer, "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven."

Not only to you spam verses and pretend they say something they don't, but you make another error of the terminally wrong, you look for the verses that you imagine support you rather than tackle the verses that contradict you. I directly responded to the Lord's prayer verse which was allegedly to contradict me. You avoided what I said.

<SNIP>

eaningles, unsupportable opinion. And where did you obtain your credentials to teach the Bible?

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Oct 30, 2017

BABerean2 said:
They died.

Both John the Baptist and the Apostle Paul were beheaded and are there now.

We have Christ returning in Revelation chapter 16 and also in chapter 19.
Therefore, we know the book is not in chronological order.
Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions, which is confirmed by the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

.

The chronological order of end time events and how the Elect got into heaven, the angels will gather, in Mt.24:3, is documented in the following:

Jn.14:1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in Goda ; believe also in me. 2My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jn.14:28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

1 Thess.4:14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words."

The Church is in heaven before the tribulation begins and while it takes place on earth:

2 Thess.2:1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, [As recorded in 1 Thess.4:16-17] we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the apostasia/discessio [Greek /Latin terms meaning DEPARTURE] occurs and the man of lawlessnessa is revealed, the man doomed to destruction." {Confirming Rev.4:1-2]

Verses 7-8 confirming verse 3:

2 Thess.2:7 "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he [The Church, confirming the departure in verse 3] is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming." [The lawless one/Antichrist, is the same person as all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27, who triggers the seven year tribulation]

The Church is in heaven fr the marriage to the Lamb while the tribulation takes place on earth:

Rev.19:7 "Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”
Jesus returns with His Church, in His second coming:

Rev.19:14"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

Satan is thrown into the Abyss for 1,000 years and the first resurrection takes place of the trbultion martyrs/saints:

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theya had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years

Parenthetics mine.

Quasar92

jgr · Oct 31, 2017

Quasar92 said:
The Church is in heaven before the tribulation begins and while it takes place on earth:

2 Thess.2:1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, [As recorded in 1 Thess.4:16-17] we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the apostasia/discessio [Greek /Latin terms meaning DEPARTURE] occurs and the man of lawlessnessa is revealed, the man doomed to destruction." {Confirming Rev.4:1-2]

Verses 7-8 confirming verse 3:

2 Thess.2:7 "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he [The Church, confirming the departure in verse 3] is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming." [The lawless one/Antichrist, is the same person as all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27, who triggers the seven year tribulation]

Debunked.

DeaconDean · Oct 31, 2017

Barney said:
You didn't quote any verse. You just spammed verse numbers, and pretended that what those numbers point to somehow supports you.

I quoted a verse that shows undeniably that in at least that verse, the kingdom of heaven on earth is not a physical and political government. And, that alone can fulfill Jesus' prayer, "thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven."

Not only to you spam verses and pretend they say something they don't, but you make another error of the terminally wrong, you look for the verses that you imagine support you rather than tackle the verses that contradict you. I directly responded to the Lord's prayer verse which was allegedly to contradict me. You avoided what I said.

Governer said:
Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep, now they see me now they don't- I've come and gone and, ooh I love to sweep around the wide step, cut a little swathe and lead the people on.

God Bless

Till all are one.

BABerean2 · Oct 31, 2017

Quasar92 said:
The chronological order of end time events and how the Elect got into heaven,

You failed to deal with the fact that thousands upon thousands of our Brothers and Sisters are in heaven now, in an attempt to force the scriptures to fit your doctrine.

You are also ignoring the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18 and the judgment of the nations at Christ's return in Matthew 25:31-46, both of which destroy the premill doctrine.
If the "first resurrection" in Revelation chapter 20 is the first bodily resurrection, it destroys your pretrib rapture.

.

Quasar92 · Oct 31, 2017

jgr said:
Debunked.

There is nothing whatever in this post of yours debunking anything. Let me see you try debunking my post #74 and the Scriptures in it that support it 100%.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Oct 31, 2017

BABerean2 said:
You failed to deal with the fact that thousands upon thousands of our Brothers and Sisters are in heaven now, in an attempt to force the scriptures to fit your doctrine.

You are also ignoring the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18 and the judgment of the nations at Christ's return in Matthew 25:31-46, both of which destroy the premill doctrine.
If the "first resurrection" in Revelation chapter 20 is the first bodily resurrection, it destroys your pretrib rapture.

.

Your problem is that you either don't read, or you fail to understand what you read. Your opening remark above that I failed to mention those who have previously died in Christ; But the failure is yours, since it was thoroughly addressed in the 4th paragraph of post #74. As re-posted for your edification:

>>>1 Thess.4:14 "For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words."<<<

Post #74 provides the Scriptures fully supporting the pre-trib rapture of the Church, from which you fail the test again, because you fail to understand what is parenthetic from the chronological order of events in Rev. in addition to who the Scriptures you are quoting is addressed to and the difference between them.

Let me see your bet effort in refuting the pre-trib rapture of the Church, in post #74.

Quasar92

BABerean2 · Oct 31, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Your problem is that you either don't read, or you fail to understand what you read. Your opening remark above that I failed to mention those who have previously died in Christ; But the failure is yours, since it was thoroughly addressed in the 4th paragraph of post #74. As re-posted for your edification:

>>>1 Thess.4:14 "For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words."<<<

Post #74 provides the Scriptures fully supporting the pre-trib rapture of the Church, from which you fail the test again, because you fail to understand what is parenthetic from the chronological order of events in Rev. in addition to who the Scriptures you are quoting is addressed to and the difference between them.

Let me see your bet effort in refuting the pre-trib rapture of the Church, in post #74.

Quasar92

You presented 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, but ignored the timing of the event at the beginning of chapter 5. The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that the two chapters are connected.

If a passage like Revelation 11:18 does not fit your doctrine you call it a "parenthetic", without admitting that Revelation chapter 20 can also be viewed as a "parenthetic", and based on the judgment of the nations in Matthew chapter 25, Revelation chapter 20 should be viewed in that way.

The pretrib viewpoint has been refuted multiple times on this forum by myself and many others.
However, even though your team is behind on the scoreboard 99 points to 0, they still claim they are winning the argument.

.

The Millennium

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Similar threads