The Millennium

[Quasar92]

It is tragic that most of the major denominations - Roman Catholic and Protestant - embrace an eschatology ("study of last things") that is amillennial : a view that does not envision a literal rule of Christ on the Throne of David on the Planet Earth.

While there are many different, yet defendable, views regarding many aspects of end-time prophecies, this basic divergence - denying a literal Millennium - is particularly dangerous in that it would appear to be an attack on the very character of God! It does violence to His numerous and explicit promises and commitments that pervade both the Old and New Testaments.

The Old Testament is replete with commitments for a literal Messiah ultimately ruling the world through Israel from His throne in Jerusalem. There are at least 1,845 references in the Old Testament and 17 books give prominence to the event. The ancient rabbinical aspirations were dominated by it. In fact, this obsession obscured their recognizing the Messiah when He made His initial appearance.

There are at least 318 references in 216 chapters of the New Testament and 23 of its 27 books give prominence to the event. The early church looked longingly for His promised return as their "Blessed Hope" to rid their desperate world of its evil rulers. How and where did this skepticism known as "Amillennialism" begin?

Origen

Pious, popular, and persuasive, Origen stands out as one of the great figures of the 3rd century church. Even at the age of 18, he stood out spectacularly well as a teacher in Alexandria. (In misguided obedience to Matthew 19:12, he emasculated himself, which he later regretted.) Later, as a prolific writer based in Caesarea, his De Principiis systematically laid out Christian doctrine in terms of Hellenic thinking and set the pattern for most subsequent theological thought for many years. His numerous sermons and commentaries, however, tragically also established an extreme pattern of allegorizing Scripture, which was to strongly influence Augustine in subsequent years.

Augustine

Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo (A.D. 354-430), was one of the most influential leaders of the Western church, living during the turbulent days of the disintegration of the Roman Empire.

He lived a sensuous, dissolute life, but following a dramatic conversion he experienced a total change of character. In 391 he was ordained as a priest in North Africa and four years later was elevated to the Bishop of Hippo. He embarked on a writing career and his extensive doctrinal writings deeply affected the Medieval Roman Catholic Church. Augustine's most elaborate writing, The City of God , was written as the Empire lay crumbling under a siege by half-civilized tribes. It portrayed the Church as a new civic order in the midst of the ruins of the Roman Empire. Augustine died while the Vandals were besieging the very gates of Hippo in A.D. 430.

Although his writings effectively defeated a number of heresies emerging in those turbulent times, the allegorizing influences of Origen left an amillennial eschatology in their wake. As the Church had increasingly become an instrument of the state, it wasn't politically expedient to look toward a literal return of Christ to rid the world of its evil rulers! The allegorical reposturing of those passages was more "politically correct." (This reminds me of the saying among the data processing profession: "If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything!")

The Reformation Shortfall

A thousand years later, under the influences of Martin Luther and others, the Reformation brought an intensive return to the authority of the Scriptures which, in turn, resulted in the subsequent reform in soteriology (the study of salvation) with its emphasis on salvation by faith alone. Many were willingly burned at the stake for their commitment to a Biblical perspective. However, one of the unfortunate shortcomings of the Reformation was that it failed to also reexamine the eschatology of the Medieval Church in the light of Scripture. Thus, the allegorizing alchemy of Origen, institutionalized by Augustine, left a denial of the Millennium that still continues to pervade the doctrines of most Protestant denominations today.

From Augustine to Auschwitz

One of the derivative aspects of an amillennial perspective is that it denies Israel's future role in God's plans. This also leads to a "replacement theology" in which the Church is viewed as replacing Israel in God's program for mankind. In addition to forcing an allegorization of many key passages of Scripture, this also led to the tragedy of the Holocaust in Europe. The responsibility for the six million Jews who were systematically murdered in the concentration camps has to include the silent pulpits who had embraced this heretical eschatology and its attendant anti-Semitism.

Reality of the Millennium

For anyone who takes the Bible seriously, the numerous explicit commitments of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that the Messiah would literally rule from Zion cannot be ignored or explained away. God's explicit and unconditional commitment of the land of Israel to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the very issue that is being challenged by the world today! And, the resurgence of amillennialism, and its attendant doctrines, are again setting the stage for the next holocaust.1

In the New Testament, these commitments are reconfirmed. Every Christmas we are reminded that Gabriel promised Mary that her son was destined to sit on the Throne of David (which did not exist during the days of His ministry).2 It is yet to be fulfilled. In fact, He taught us to pray specifically for it: "Thy Kingdom come...." What does that mean? The thousand-year reign, from which the Millennium takes its label, is detailed in numerous passages including Revelation 20, Isaiah 65, and Ezekiel 40-48, among others. Ezekiel's detailed tour of the Millennial Temple virtually defies any skeptic's attempt to treat it allegorically (see diagram). Encompassing a Temple area 50 miles on a side, substantially to the north of Jerusalem, as a source of a river that flows toward both the Mediterranean to the west and the Dead Sea to the east, Ezekiel's description implies a total change of topography, which is explicit in the Scripture. 3

However, the more we learn about the Millennium, the more questions it raises. It is not heaven: it is clearly distinctive in contrast to the eternal state which follows (Revelation 21). It will be characterized by a limited amount of evil, which Christ will judge perfectly and immediately. 4 Neither is it the "new earth" that God will yet create;5 for therein righteousness dwells, which is something not true of the Millennium.

Millennium Paradoxes

As an example of some of the ostensible paradoxes of the Millennium is the strange question of death. Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, a dear friend and highly respected Messianic scholar, suggests that death in the Millennium will be for unbelievers only. Nowhere in the Bible does it speak of a resurrection of Millennial saints. This may be why the resurrection of the tribulation saints is said to complete the "first resurrection" (Rev 20:4-6).

From the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, it would seem that there will be no Jewish unbelievers in the kingdom; all Jews born during the Millennium will accept the Messiah before their 100th year.6 Unbelief would thus be among the Gentiles only, and therefore, death would exist only among the Gentiles.7 [Jer 31:35-37 refutes "Reconstructionism" and similar heresies.] Another strange issue is the prominence of sacrifices in the Millennium. It would seem that they are memorials after the fact, just as the sacrifices in the Old Testament were memorials in advance.8

A Time to Study

As recent events have so dramatically emphasized to all of us, it is, indeed, a time to reexamine our perspectives, and to acknowledge in our personal priorities that history includes some shocking "non-linearities": even our most cherished presumptions are subject to cataclysmic challenges! It is time to refresh our understanding from the bedrock of Scripture and to recognize the urgency of the times. I believe we are rapidly being plunged into a period of time about which the Bible says more than it does about any other period of time in history - including the time that Jesus walked the shores of Galilee and climbed the mountains of Judea!

Are you ready? Maranatha!

Bu: Chuck Missler

Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Reality of the Millennium

 

[Quasar92]

The origin of Amillennialism:

The doctrine of amillennialism, or that there is no 1,000 years of literal reign upon the earth by Jesus Messieh, is a Catholic doctrine. The teaching that the eternal millennial kingdom of Jesus began in 70AD and there is no future 1,000 year earthy reign of Jesus is a false teach of Origen and Catholicism. These amillennial falsehoods were not preached or believed by the Apostles.

The amillennial heresy must pervert Scripture, spiritualize Scripture, and change the Scriptures, for it to even gain a remote possibility of being accepted as true. Everyone who is a Catholic amillennialist will have the wildest spiritualizing stories you have ever heard. And yet most of these do not like or believe several other Catholic doctrines, traditions, and heresies. Why then, do they hold on to this teaching?

The amillennial doctrine came into the Catholic Church by Origen via St. Augustine. He in turn got it from being associated with Manichaeanism. He may also have gotten it from contact with the teachings of Clement of Alexandria.

Alexandria, Egypt is also where the trinity doctrine was brought by Athanasius to Nicaea. The question here is: did any good doctrine come out of Egypt? It was here also that Monasteries were invented and where *Catholic-Nicolaitian* gnosticsim was incubated under Clement and Origen. Would it not then seem appropriate for amillennialism to come from that very place of apostasy? One thing is certain, ...neither the Catholics or those who teach this Catholic dogma can trace it to Jerusalem and the Apostles. Therefore, they must pervert what did come from Jerusalem and reinterpret the Scriptures of the Apostles, to make their heresy agree with Egypt. And to do this, they must spiritualize what came out of Jerusalem from the Apostles. So when, they get to the Jerusalem text of Revelation 20:1-10, they do the Egyptian trick on it and pervert it.

Amillennialist always persist in bringing up issues that have no bearing on the interpretation of Revelation 20:1-10. Such issues are the book is totally symbolic why not also the thousand years; cannot God own the cattle on 1001 hills; the wicked being all destroyed at the coming of Jesus; one taken and another left; fighting for the Kingdom; the Kingdom not of this world; where do the sinners come from who populate the earth in the millennial; why are their alleged animal sacrifices to Jesus during this time out of Ezekiel's temple; and confusing the end of the world and the final judgment with the coming of Messieh at the end of the judgments of the tribulation.

To make amillennialism work, they spiritualize the battle of Armageddon as being a spiritual fight between the Saints and the devil; they spiritualize the bottomless pit as the heart of a Saint or sinner (only a Saint could seal him up if that is true and in their heart? You figure that out); they spiritualize the mark of the beast as sin or the Roman numerals in the Pope's crown (and yet they claim they took the mark of sin and can still be saved); they spiritualize the first resurrection (Rev. 20:4), as either water baptism, or being born again by faith only, as passing from death to life (the alleged first resurrection); they spiritualize being beheaded (Rev. 20:4), as a person who takes off their head of sin and who puts on a head of Christ or Messieh; they spiritualize the thrones (Rev. 20:4), as being positions as Apostles in the New Testament Church; they spiritualize the 1,000 years of reigning with Messieh as this being a symbolic number to describe the entire Church age however long it will last.

Since they end the world at the second coming of Messieh, they don't know who those are mentioned: *But the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished*; they never answer who these dead are to be saved *after* the thousand years are finished, if all the dead are saved during the thousand years which they make the Church age?
These spiritualize that the devil is bound in the bottomless pit at Calvary. Some amillenialist claim that Jesus is really Michael the archangel. One famous amillennialist of the Presbyterians (William Cox), said when questioned if this was so, how is it that the devil is out of the pit and waring against the Saints, the Church, and the Apostles, and even has a seat in Pergamos? He replied that all he could figure out was that the devil must be out of the pit on some probation. But if the devil is bound for a thousand years and the thousand years is figurative of the whole Church age, would not the devil then be bound the whole Church age? What devil have these Pentecostals been casting out for the last hundred years? William Cox put his statement about the devil being out on probation in his book on *Amillennialism For Today.* The devil out on probation? What a hoot!

Amillennialist spiritualize the rapture. A real amillenialist does not believe in the rapture and against this they rail vehemently. Most amillennialist take the words *caught up together to meet the Lord in the air* as meaning caught up in euphoria, and the word *clouds* to mean glory. So they hate the so-called rapture doctrine and teach that when Jesus comes to earth every eye shall see him and being caught up in the euphoria of the moment they are ushered into the presence or glory of the Lord ON EARTH, not in the physical air. This scares me, because the antichrist will stir up euphoria and a fake glory and to this many millions will flock. Many spiritualize being changed from mortality to immortality as being filled with the Holy Ghost and that our bodies will not change to one that is spiritual, but be given back immortality.

Now, prior to the Church having existed a thousand years, such a heresy could have claimed this, but the rationality of claiming it now, borders on the insane. And those who lived early in this thousand years like Clement, Origen, Augustine, et al, could make all sorts of allegations but now in retrospect we know they were false and deceived.

And, please note, that in all of their writings, these never did spiritualize the 1,000 years into 2,000 years as done by amillennialist today. They quite expected the earth to last only that 1,000 years and come to an explosive end. But when it did not end in 1000AD, the whole doctrine needed revision. Then it was necessary to invent and correct Clement, Origen, and Augustine, about the millennial being spiritualized to cover the whole Church age.

Since this is just a simple web-site and a few pages on this issue, all of the heresy cannot be treated. And, it is customary for amillennialist that if you do not prove all of their doctrine is false in every aspect of their theory, they will take one or two issues not dealt with as proof the whole doctrine is still valid, and go BACK and take up those portions proven to be false. This proves their dishonesty in handling the Word of God. This demonstrates how slippery an amillennialist can be, and they are not ashamed or timid, to call anyone who exposes their Catholic heresy liars and false prophets. So, keep the e-mail coming folks, my hate mail will as usual be tremendous. Getting rid of Roman riddles seems to be a chore even among the Oneness Apostolic and Pentecostal Churches.

By Pastor G. Reckart

From: http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics...ic/amill1.html


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

The origin of Amillennialism:

The doctrine of amillennialism, or that there is no 1,000 years of literal reign upon the earth by Jesus Messieh, is a Catholic doctrine. The teaching that the eternal millennial kingdom of Jesus began in 70AD and there is no future 1,000 year earthy reign of Jesus is a false teach of Origen and Catholicism. These amillennial falsehoods were not preached or believed by the Apostles.

The amillennial heresy must pervert Scripture, spiritualize Scripture, and change the Scriptures, for it to even gain a remote possibility of being accepted as true. Everyone who is a Catholic amillennialist will have the wildest spiritualizing stories you have ever heard. And yet most of these do not like or believe several other Catholic doctrines, traditions, and heresies. Why then, do they hold on to this teaching?

The amillennial doctrine came into the Catholic Church by Origen via St. Augustine. He in turn got it from being associated with Manichaeanism. He may also have gotten it from contact with the teachings of Clement of Alexandria.

Alexandria, Egypt is also where the trinity doctrine was brought by Athanasius to Nicaea. The question here is: did any good doctrine come out of Egypt? It was here also that Monasteries were invented and where *Catholic-Nicolaitian* gnosticsim was incubated under Clement and Origen. Would it not then seem appropriate for amillennialism to come from that very place of apostasy? One thing is certain, ...neither the Catholics or those who teach this Catholic dogma can trace it to Jerusalem and the Apostles. Therefore, they must pervert what did come from Jerusalem and reinterpret the Scriptures of the Apostles, to make their heresy agree with Egypt. And to do this, they must spiritualize what came out of Jerusalem from the Apostles. So when, they get to the Jerusalem text of Revelation 20:1-10, they do the Egyptian trick on it and pervert it.

Amillennialist always persist in bringing up issues that have no bearing on the interpretation of Revelation 20:1-10. Such issues are the book is totally symbolic why not also the thousand years; cannot God own the cattle on 1001 hills; the wicked being all destroyed at the coming of Jesus; one taken and another left; fighting for the Kingdom; the Kingdom not of this world; where do the sinners come from who populate the earth in the millennial; why are their alleged animal sacrifices to Jesus during this time out of Ezekiel's temple; and confusing the end of the world and the final judgment with the coming of Messieh at the end of the judgments of the tribulation.

To make amillennialism work, they spiritualize the battle of Armageddon as being a spiritual fight between the Saints and the devil; they spiritualize the bottomless pit as the heart of a Saint or sinner (only a Saint could seal him up if that is true and in their heart? You figure that out); they spiritualize the mark of the beast as sin or the Roman numerals in the Pope's crown (and yet they claim they took the mark of sin and can still be saved); they spiritualize the first resurrection (Rev. 20:4), as either water baptism, or being born again by faith only, as passing from death to life (the alleged first resurrection); they spiritualize being beheaded (Rev. 20:4), as a person who takes off their head of sin and who puts on a head of Christ or Messieh; they spiritualize the thrones (Rev. 20:4), as being positions as Apostles in the New Testament Church; they spiritualize the 1,000 years of reigning with Messieh as this being a symbolic number to describe the entire Church age however long it will last.

Since they end the world at the second coming of Messieh, they don't know who those are mentioned: *But the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished*; they never answer who these dead are to be saved *after* the thousand years are finished, if all the dead are saved during the thousand years which they make the Church age?
These spiritualize that the devil is bound in the bottomless pit at Calvary. Some amillenialist claim that Jesus is really Michael the archangel. One famous amillennialist of the Presbyterians (William Cox), said when questioned if this was so, how is it that the devil is out of the pit and waring against the Saints, the Church, and the Apostles, and even has a seat in Pergamos? He replied that all he could figure out was that the devil must be out of the pit on some probation. But if the devil is bound for a thousand years and the thousand years is figurative of the whole Church age, would not the devil then be bound the whole Church age? What devil have these Pentecostals been casting out for the last hundred years? William Cox put his statement about the devil being out on probation in his book on *Amillennialism For Today.* The devil out on probation? What a hoot!

Amillennialist spiritualize the rapture. A real amillenialist does not believe in the rapture and against this they rail vehemently. Most amillennialist take the words *caught up together to meet the Lord in the air* as meaning caught up in euphoria, and the word *clouds* to mean glory. So they hate the so-called rapture doctrine and teach that when Jesus comes to earth every eye shall see him and being caught up in the euphoria of the moment they are ushered into the presence or glory of the Lord ON EARTH, not in the physical air. This scares me, because the antichrist will stir up euphoria and a fake glory and to this many millions will flock. Many spiritualize being changed from mortality to immortality as being filled with the Holy Ghost and that our bodies will not change to one that is spiritual, but be given back immortality.

Now, prior to the Church having existed a thousand years, such a heresy could have claimed this, but the rationality of claiming it now, borders on the insane. And those who lived early in this thousand years like Clement, Origen, Augustine, et al, could make all sorts of allegations but now in retrospect we know they were false and deceived.

And, please note, that in all of their writings, these never did spiritualize the 1,000 years into 2,000 years as done by amillennialist today. They quite expected the earth to last only that 1,000 years and come to an explosive end. But when it did not end in 1000AD, the whole doctrine needed revision. Then it was necessary to invent and correct Clement, Origen, and Augustine, about the millennial being spiritualized to cover the whole Church age.

Since this is just a simple web-site and a few pages on this issue, all of the heresy cannot be treated. And, it is customary for amillennialist that if you do not prove all of their doctrine is false in every aspect of their theory, they will take one or two issues not dealt with as proof the whole doctrine is still valid, and go BACK and take up those portions proven to be false. This proves their dishonesty in handling the Word of God. This demonstrates how slippery an amillennialist can be, and they are not ashamed or timid, to call anyone who exposes their Catholic heresy liars and false prophets. So, keep the e-mail coming folks, my hate mail will as usual be tremendous. Getting rid of Roman riddles seems to be a chore even among the Oneness Apostolic and Pentecostal Churches.

By Pastor G. Reckart

From: http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics...ic/amill1.html


Quasar92

Debunked.

Justin Martyr (100 - 165 AD) is of significance, because contrary to the frequent dispensational portrayal of enmity between early amils and premils, or claims that amil did not exist, Martyr had this to say:

""I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion [i.e., premillennialism], and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise."

He was referring to amils, characterizing them as true Christians.

Justin Martyr pre-dates Clement and Origen by decades, and Augustine and the Catholic church by centuries.

And in classic dispensational fashion, Pastor Reckart knows naught whereof he speaks.

 

[Quasar92]

Debunked.

Justin Martyr (100 - 165 AD) is of significance, because contrary to the frequent dispensational portrayal of enmity between early amils and premils, or claims that amil did not exist, Martyr had this to say:

""I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion [i.e., premillennialism], and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise."

He was referring to amils, characterizing them as true Christians.

Justin Martyr pre-dates Clement and Origen by decades, and Augustine and the Catholic church by centuries.

And in classic dispensational fashion, Pastor Reckart knows naught whereof he speaks.

You have debunked nothing at all and your above does nothing in respnose to the OP and #3 posts. Jesus will rule on earth for 1,000 years, immediately following the first resurrection in Rev.20:4 and6.


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus will rule on earth for 1,000 years

When does the judgment come?

The Final Judgment (subtitle from eSword)

Mat 25:31　 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:　

Mat 25:32　 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:　

Mat 25:33　 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.　

Mat 25:34　 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:　


Mat 25:41　 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:　
Mat 25:42　 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:　
Mat 25:43　 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.　
Mat 25:44　 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?　
Mat 25:45　 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.　

Mat 25:46　 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.　



2Ti 4:1　 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
(He judges both the living and the dead at His return.)


The time of the judgment of the dead is found in Revelation 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

Rev 11:18　 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.　


Neither of these comes 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ.

.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

You have debunked nothing at all and your above does nothing in respnose to the OP and #3 posts. Jesus will rule on earth for 1,000 years, immediately following the first resurrection in Rev.20:4 and6.


Quasdar92

It is not hard to understand if one wants to understand it. If one can understand language, the Bible clearly teaches the 1000 years reign of Lord Jesus.And we will reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[jgr]

The origin of Amillennialism:

The doctrine of amillennialism, or that there is no 1,000 years of literal reign upon the earth by Jesus Messieh, is a Catholic doctrine. The teaching that the eternal millennial kingdom of Jesus began in 70AD and there is no future 1,000 year earthy reign of Jesus is a false teach of Origen and Catholicism. These amillennial falsehoods were not preached or believed by the Apostles.

The amillennial heresy must pervert Scripture, spiritualize Scripture, and change the Scriptures, for it to even gain a remote possibility of being accepted as true. Everyone who is a Catholic amillennialist will have the wildest spiritualizing stories you have ever heard. And yet most of these do not like or believe several other Catholic doctrines, traditions, and heresies. Why then, do they hold on to this teaching?

The amillennial doctrine came into the Catholic Church by Origen via St. Augustine. He in turn got it from being associated with Manichaeanism. He may also have gotten it from contact with the teachings of Clement of Alexandria.

Alexandria, Egypt is also where the trinity doctrine was brought by Athanasius to Nicaea. The question here is: did any good doctrine come out of Egypt? It was here also that Monasteries were invented and where *Catholic-Nicolaitian* gnosticsim was incubated under Clement and Origen. Would it not then seem appropriate for amillennialism to come from that very place of apostasy? One thing is certain, ...neither the Catholics or those who teach this Catholic dogma can trace it to Jerusalem and the Apostles. Therefore, they must pervert what did come from Jerusalem and reinterpret the Scriptures of the Apostles, to make their heresy agree with Egypt. And to do this, they must spiritualize what came out of Jerusalem from the Apostles. So when, they get to the Jerusalem text of Revelation 20:1-10, they do the Egyptian trick on it and pervert it.

Amillennialist always persist in bringing up issues that have no bearing on the interpretation of Revelation 20:1-10. Such issues are the book is totally symbolic why not also the thousand years; cannot God own the cattle on 1001 hills; the wicked being all destroyed at the coming of Jesus; one taken and another left; fighting for the Kingdom; the Kingdom not of this world; where do the sinners come from who populate the earth in the millennial; why are their alleged animal sacrifices to Jesus during this time out of Ezekiel's temple; and confusing the end of the world and the final judgment with the coming of Messieh at the end of the judgments of the tribulation.

To make amillennialism work, they spiritualize the battle of Armageddon as being a spiritual fight between the Saints and the devil; they spiritualize the bottomless pit as the heart of a Saint or sinner (only a Saint could seal him up if that is true and in their heart? You figure that out); they spiritualize the mark of the beast as sin or the Roman numerals in the Pope's crown (and yet they claim they took the mark of sin and can still be saved); they spiritualize the first resurrection (Rev. 20:4), as either water baptism, or being born again by faith only, as passing from death to life (the alleged first resurrection); they spiritualize being beheaded (Rev. 20:4), as a person who takes off their head of sin and who puts on a head of Christ or Messieh; they spiritualize the thrones (Rev. 20:4), as being positions as Apostles in the New Testament Church; they spiritualize the 1,000 years of reigning with Messieh as this being a symbolic number to describe the entire Church age however long it will last.

Since they end the world at the second coming of Messieh, they don't know who those are mentioned: *But the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished*; they never answer who these dead are to be saved *after* the thousand years are finished, if all the dead are saved during the thousand years which they make the Church age?
These spiritualize that the devil is bound in the bottomless pit at Calvary. Some amillenialist claim that Jesus is really Michael the archangel. One famous amillennialist of the Presbyterians (William Cox), said when questioned if this was so, how is it that the devil is out of the pit and waring against the Saints, the Church, and the Apostles, and even has a seat in Pergamos? He replied that all he could figure out was that the devil must be out of the pit on some probation. But if the devil is bound for a thousand years and the thousand years is figurative of the whole Church age, would not the devil then be bound the whole Church age? What devil have these Pentecostals been casting out for the last hundred years? William Cox put his statement about the devil being out on probation in his book on *Amillennialism For Today.* The devil out on probation? What a hoot!

Amillennialist spiritualize the rapture. A real amillenialist does not believe in the rapture and against this they rail vehemently. Most amillennialist take the words *caught up together to meet the Lord in the air* as meaning caught up in euphoria, and the word *clouds* to mean glory. So they hate the so-called rapture doctrine and teach that when Jesus comes to earth every eye shall see him and being caught up in the euphoria of the moment they are ushered into the presence or glory of the Lord ON EARTH, not in the physical air. This scares me, because the antichrist will stir up euphoria and a fake glory and to this many millions will flock. Many spiritualize being changed from mortality to immortality as being filled with the Holy Ghost and that our bodies will not change to one that is spiritual, but be given back immortality.

Now, prior to the Church having existed a thousand years, such a heresy could have claimed this, but the rationality of claiming it now, borders on the insane. And those who lived early in this thousand years like Clement, Origen, Augustine, et al, could make all sorts of allegations but now in retrospect we know they were false and deceived.

And, please note, that in all of their writings, these never did spiritualize the 1,000 years into 2,000 years as done by amillennialist today. They quite expected the earth to last only that 1,000 years and come to an explosive end. But when it did not end in 1000AD, the whole doctrine needed revision. Then it was necessary to invent and correct Clement, Origen, and Augustine, about the millennial being spiritualized to cover the whole Church age.

Since this is just a simple web-site and a few pages on this issue, all of the heresy cannot be treated. And, it is customary for amillennialist that if you do not prove all of their doctrine is false in every aspect of their theory, they will take one or two issues not dealt with as proof the whole doctrine is still valid, and go BACK and take up those portions proven to be false. This proves their dishonesty in handling the Word of God. This demonstrates how slippery an amillennialist can be, and they are not ashamed or timid, to call anyone who exposes their Catholic heresy liars and false prophets. So, keep the e-mail coming folks, my hate mail will as usual be tremendous. Getting rid of Roman riddles seems to be a chore even among the Oneness Apostolic and Pentecostal Churches.

By Pastor G. Reckart

From: http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics...ic/amill1.html


Quasar92

I must concede, however, that Pastor Reckart doesn't have everything wrong.

 

[Quasar92]

When does the judgment come?

The Final Judgment (subtitle from eSword)

Mat 25:31　 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:　

Mat 25:32　 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:　

Mat 25:33　 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.　

Mat 25:34　 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:　


Mat 25:41　 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:　
Mat 25:42　 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:　
Mat 25:43　 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.　
Mat 25:44　 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?　
Mat 25:45　 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.　

Mat 25:46　 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.　



2Ti 4:1　 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
(He judges both the living and the dead at His return.)


The time of the judgment of the dead is found in Revelation 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

Rev 11:18　 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.　


Neither of these comes 1,000 years after the Second Coming of Christ.

.

The chronological order of end time events are as follow:

Jesus eturns in His second coming WITH His Church, in Rev.19:14.

Jesus ends the tribultion in Rev.19:17-20.

Satan is thrown into the Abyss and locked up for 1,000 years, in Rev.20:3.

The first resurrection will take place, in Rev.20:4.

The Millennial/1,000 year reign of Christ take place, in Rev.20:6.

Satan is released from the Abyss when the 1,000 years is ended, I Rev.20:7-10.

The second resurrection will take place at the Great White Throne Judgment, in Rev.20:5, 11-15.

Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth will end at this point.

The present heaven nd earth will pass away and Gof will provide all of us who belong to Jesus, a new heaven and earth, in Rev.21:1.

The Scriptural facts above refute your post #6.


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

The chronological order of end time events are as follow:

Jesus eturns in His second coming WITH His Church, in Rev.19:14.

Jesus ends the tribultion in Rev.19:17-20.

Satan is thrown into the Abyss and locked up for 1,000 years, in Rev.20:3.

The first resurrection will take place, in Rev.20:4.

The Millennial/1,000 year reign of Christ take place, in Rev.20:6.

Satan is released from the Abyss when the 1,000 years is ended, I Rev.20:7-10.

The second resurrection will take place at the Great White Throne Judgment, in Rev.20:5, 11-15.

Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth will end at this point.

The present heaven nd earth will pass away and Gof will provide all of us who belong to Jesus, a new heaven and earth, in Rev.21:1.

The Scriptural facts above refute your post #6.


Quasar92

Nice "story", but you ignored the passage from 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 about Christ returning in "flaming fire".

You must ignore 2 Timothy 4:1, which says He will judge both the living and the dead at His appearing.

You must ignore the judgment of the nations at the end of Matthew chapter 25.

You must ignore the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

You must ignore the fulfillment of the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Hebrews 8:6-13, which is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

You must ignore that Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, in Acts 2:36.

You must ignore that Paul identified himself as an "Israelite", even after his conversion.

Your doctrine is a doctrine of ignorance, because it only works by ignoring many passages of scripture.

.

 

[Quasar92]

Nice "story", but you ignored the passage from 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 about Christ returning in "flaming fire".

You must ignore 2 Timothy 4:1, which says He will judge both the living and the dead at His appearing.

You must ignore the judgment of the nations at the end of Matthew chapter 25.

You must ignore the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18.

You must ignore the fulfillment of the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Hebrews 8:6-13, which is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

You must ignore that Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" on the Day of Pentecost, in Acts 2:36.

You must ignore that Paul identified himself as an "Israelite", even after his conversion.

Your doctrine is a doctrine of ignorance, because it only works by ignoring many passages of scripture.

.

FYI, I have ignored nothing. It was not my intent to post every detail of end tie events, in the first place and in the second place it is clear you fail to understand the hermeneutics of the Scriptures you posted. Provide me proof of anything I posted in #9 is not in proper chronological order.

You wrote the following: >>>Nice "story", but you ignored the passage from 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 about Christ returning in "flaming fire"<<<

Now show me from the Scripture where Jesus second coming is in "flaming fire," and what that passage in 2 Thess. 1 means.

And where, may I ask, did you obtain qualifications to teach the Bible, let alone eschatology?


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Now show me from the Scripture where Jesus second coming is in "flaming fire," and what that passage in 2 Thess. 1 means.

And where, may I ask, did you obtain qualifications to teach the Bible, let alone eschatology?

My Masters degree in education came from Appalachian State University.

It is not a cemetery, I mean seminary...

I passed the reading test given to incoming Freshmen.
Therefore, I had learned to read before entering the university.

I can find the phrase "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36 and the word "Israelite" in Romans 11:1.


The Judgment at Christ's Coming (subtitle from eSword)

2Th 1:5　 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:　
2Th 1:6　 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;　
2Th 1:7　 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,　
2Th 1:8　 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:　
2Th 1:9　 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;　
2Th 1:10　 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.　



The Parable of the Weeds Explained

Mat 13:36　 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.　
Mat 13:37　 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;　

Mat 13:38　 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;　

Mat 13:39　 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.　

Mat 13:40　 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.　

Mat 13:41　 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;　

Mat 13:42　 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.　

Mat 13:43　 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

　

The Final Judgment

Mat 25:31　 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:　

Mat 25:32　 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:　

Mat 25:33　 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.　

Mat 25:34　 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:　



Mat 25:41　 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:　


Note the reference to "fire" in all of the above passages.

.

 

[jgr]

It is tragic that most of the major denominations - Roman Catholic and Protestant - embrace an eschatology ("study of last things") that is amillennial : a view that does not envision a literal rule of Christ on the Throne of David on the Planet Earth.

While there are many different, yet defendable, views regarding many aspects of end-time prophecies, this basic divergence - denying a literal Millennium - is particularly dangerous in that it would appear to be an attack on the very character of God! It does violence to His numerous and explicit promises and commitments that pervade both the Old and New Testaments.

The Old Testament is replete with commitments for a literal Messiah ultimately ruling the world through Israel from His throne in Jerusalem. There are at least 1,845 references in the Old Testament and 17 books give prominence to the event. The ancient rabbinical aspirations were dominated by it. In fact, this obsession obscured their recognizing the Messiah when He made His initial appearance.

There are at least 318 references in 216 chapters of the New Testament and 23 of its 27 books give prominence to the event. The early church looked longingly for His promised return as their "Blessed Hope" to rid their desperate world of its evil rulers. How and where did this skepticism known as "Amillennialism" begin?

Origen

Pious, popular, and persuasive, Origen stands out as one of the great figures of the 3rd century church. Even at the age of 18, he stood out spectacularly well as a teacher in Alexandria. (In misguided obedience to Matthew 19:12, he emasculated himself, which he later regretted.) Later, as a prolific writer based in Caesarea, his De Principiis systematically laid out Christian doctrine in terms of Hellenic thinking and set the pattern for most subsequent theological thought for many years. His numerous sermons and commentaries, however, tragically also established an extreme pattern of allegorizing Scripture, which was to strongly influence Augustine in subsequent years.

Augustine

Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo (A.D. 354-430), was one of the most influential leaders of the Western church, living during the turbulent days of the disintegration of the Roman Empire.

He lived a sensuous, dissolute life, but following a dramatic conversion he experienced a total change of character. In 391 he was ordained as a priest in North Africa and four years later was elevated to the Bishop of Hippo. He embarked on a writing career and his extensive doctrinal writings deeply affected the Medieval Roman Catholic Church. Augustine's most elaborate writing, The City of God , was written as the Empire lay crumbling under a siege by half-civilized tribes. It portrayed the Church as a new civic order in the midst of the ruins of the Roman Empire. Augustine died while the Vandals were besieging the very gates of Hippo in A.D. 430.

Although his writings effectively defeated a number of heresies emerging in those turbulent times, the allegorizing influences of Origen left an amillennial eschatology in their wake. As the Church had increasingly become an instrument of the state, it wasn't politically expedient to look toward a literal return of Christ to rid the world of its evil rulers! The allegorical reposturing of those passages was more "politically correct." (This reminds me of the saying among the data processing profession: "If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything!")

The Reformation Shortfall

A thousand years later, under the influences of Martin Luther and others, the Reformation brought an intensive return to the authority of the Scriptures which, in turn, resulted in the subsequent reform in soteriology (the study of salvation) with its emphasis on salvation by faith alone. Many were willingly burned at the stake for their commitment to a Biblical perspective. However, one of the unfortunate shortcomings of the Reformation was that it failed to also reexamine the eschatology of the Medieval Church in the light of Scripture. Thus, the allegorizing alchemy of Origen, institutionalized by Augustine, left a denial of the Millennium that still continues to pervade the doctrines of most Protestant denominations today.

From Augustine to Auschwitz

One of the derivative aspects of an amillennial perspective is that it denies Israel's future role in God's plans. This also leads to a "replacement theology" in which the Church is viewed as replacing Israel in God's program for mankind. In addition to forcing an allegorization of many key passages of Scripture, this also led to the tragedy of the Holocaust in Europe. The responsibility for the six million Jews who were systematically murdered in the concentration camps has to include the silent pulpits who had embraced this heretical eschatology and its attendant anti-Semitism.

Reality of the Millennium

For anyone who takes the Bible seriously, the numerous explicit commitments of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that the Messiah would literally rule from Zion cannot be ignored or explained away. God's explicit and unconditional commitment of the land of Israel to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the very issue that is being challenged by the world today! And, the resurgence of amillennialism, and its attendant doctrines, are again setting the stage for the next holocaust.1

In the New Testament, these commitments are reconfirmed. Every Christmas we are reminded that Gabriel promised Mary that her son was destined to sit on the Throne of David (which did not exist during the days of His ministry).2 It is yet to be fulfilled. In fact, He taught us to pray specifically for it: "Thy Kingdom come...." What does that mean? The thousand-year reign, from which the Millennium takes its label, is detailed in numerous passages including Revelation 20, Isaiah 65, and Ezekiel 40-48, among others. Ezekiel's detailed tour of the Millennial Temple virtually defies any skeptic's attempt to treat it allegorically (see diagram). Encompassing a Temple area 50 miles on a side, substantially to the north of Jerusalem, as a source of a river that flows toward both the Mediterranean to the west and the Dead Sea to the east, Ezekiel's description implies a total change of topography, which is explicit in the Scripture. 3

However, the more we learn about the Millennium, the more questions it raises. It is not heaven: it is clearly distinctive in contrast to the eternal state which follows (Revelation 21). It will be characterized by a limited amount of evil, which Christ will judge perfectly and immediately. 4 Neither is it the "new earth" that God will yet create;5 for therein righteousness dwells, which is something not true of the Millennium.

Millennium Paradoxes

As an example of some of the ostensible paradoxes of the Millennium is the strange question of death. Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, a dear friend and highly respected Messianic scholar, suggests that death in the Millennium will be for unbelievers only. Nowhere in the Bible does it speak of a resurrection of Millennial saints. This may be why the resurrection of the tribulation saints is said to complete the "first resurrection" (Rev 20:4-6).

From the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, it would seem that there will be no Jewish unbelievers in the kingdom; all Jews born during the Millennium will accept the Messiah before their 100th year.6 Unbelief would thus be among the Gentiles only, and therefore, death would exist only among the Gentiles.7 [Jer 31:35-37 refutes "Reconstructionism" and similar heresies.] Another strange issue is the prominence of sacrifices in the Millennium. It would seem that they are memorials after the fact, just as the sacrifices in the Old Testament were memorials in advance.8

A Time to Study

As recent events have so dramatically emphasized to all of us, it is, indeed, a time to reexamine our perspectives, and to acknowledge in our personal priorities that history includes some shocking "non-linearities": even our most cherished presumptions are subject to cataclysmic challenges! It is time to refresh our understanding from the bedrock of Scripture and to recognize the urgency of the times. I believe we are rapidly being plunged into a period of time about which the Bible says more than it does about any other period of time in history - including the time that Jesus walked the shores of Galilee and climbed the mountains of Judea!

Are you ready? Maranatha!

Bu: Chuck Missler

Quasar92

It is more than a little entertaining to see a dispensationalist mauling the papal hand that feeds him. For it was from the papacy's 16th century counter-reformation, contrived out of desperation to thwart the Reformers' proclamation of the papacy as antichrist, that the doctrine of futurism was spawned. The primary theme of this doctrine was that antichrist was not an extant reality, but would appear at some time in the distant future to unleash the ultimate tribulation.

This doctrine and its subsequently contrived trappings, e.g. pretrib rapture, form an integral and indispensable part of the foundation of modern dispensationalism. Deprived of futurism, dispensationalism would die an instantaneous death. Thus dispensationalism owes its very life to the Roman Catholicism which it professes to so despise. But as history demonstrates, apostasy's forms and bedfellows can be strange and unpredictable indeed. And as the saying goes, and probably more than a few of the RC faithful concur, "That's gratitude for you."

And, unsurprisingly, dispensationalism's abject scorn for, and ignorance of, history and its lessons is once again demonstrated. For it must continue to pay unwavering obeisance to the legacy of its most influential founder, John Nelson Darby, who summarily declared:
"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."

 

[Quasar92]

My Masters degree in education came from Appalachian State University.

It is not a cemetery, I mean seminary...

I passed the reading test given to incoming Freshmen.
Therefore, I had learned to read before entering the university.

I can find the phrase "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36 and the word "Israelite" in Romans 11:1.


The Judgment at Christ's Coming (subtitle from eSword)

2Th 1:5　 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:　
2Th 1:6　 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;　
2Th 1:7　 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,　
2Th 1:8　 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:　
2Th 1:9　 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;　
2Th 1:10　 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.　



The Parable of the Weeds Explained

Mat 13:36　 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.　
Mat 13:37　 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;　

Mat 13:38　 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;　

Mat 13:39　 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.　

Mat 13:40　 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.　

Mat 13:41　 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;　

Mat 13:42　 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.　

Mat 13:43　 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

　

The Final Judgment

Mat 25:31　 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:　

Mat 25:32　 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:　

Mat 25:33　 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.　

Mat 25:34　 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:　



Mat 25:41　 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:　


Note the reference to "fire" in all of the above passages.

.

Since your Masters degree isn't from an accredited Bible College, you are without qualification to teach the Bible, let alone eschatology. Which means, your assessment of prophetic interpretation is pure speculation or that of embracing smeone elses views to use as your own.

There will be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul taught, as recorded in my post #84, along with #85, that refute you.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

It is more than a little entertaining to see a dispensationalist mauling the papal hand that feeds him. For it was from the papacy's 16th century counter-reformation, contrived out of desperation to thwart the Reformers' proclamation of the papacy as antichrist, that the doctrine of futurism was spawned. The primary theme of this doctrine was that antichrist was not an extant reality, but would appear at some time in the distant future to unleash the ultimate tribulation.

This doctrine and its subsequently contrived trappings, e.g. pretrib rapture, form an integral and indispensable part of the foundation of modern dispensationalism. Deprived of futurism, dispensationalism would die an instantaneous death. Thus dispensationalism owes its very life to the Roman Catholicism which it professes to so despise. But as history demonstrates, apostasy's forms and bedfellows can be strange and unpredictable indeed. And as the saying goes, and probably more than a few of the RC faithful concur, "That's gratitude for you."

And, unsurprisingly, dispensationalism's abject scorn for, and ignorance of, history and its lessons is once again demonstrated. For it must continue to pay unwavering obeisance to the legacy of its most influential founder, John Nelson Darby, who summarily declared:
"I do not admit history to be, in any sense, necessary to the understanding of prophecy."

FYI, the RCC did not exist until the 4th century. Your above is meaningless opinion, refuted in my post #3. That Catholicism is the hand that feeds me is nothing short of ridiculous. The Hand that has fed/feeds me, is the Holy Spirit. If you can find nothing else to post but that of denigrating others, it would be best for you to stay out of the kitchen, where it has gotten too hot for you to field a Scripturally based rebuke instead.


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

That Catholicism is the hand that feeds me is a nothing short of ridiculous.

Truth is often accused of being ridiculous. It enjoys a good guffaw.

Don't neglect to check out Pastor Reckart here.

 

[BABerean2]

Since your Masters degree isn't from an accredited Bible College, you are without qualification to teach the Bible, let alone eschatology. Which means, your assessment of prophetic interpretation is pure speculation or that of embracing smeone elses views to use as your own.

Your statement above is more than a little strange, since all seminaries do not teach the same thing.

Maybe you think the only "accredited" Bible College would be one that teaches modern Dispensational Theology.

My wife and I support Providence Theological Seminary in Tennessee, which has rejected both Reformed Covenant Theology and modern Dispensational Theology.
It teaches the Bible from a New Covenant perspective.

Providence Theological Seminary

God's Word does not require a seminary degree in order to understand what is plainly written in scripture. Claiming otherwise is promoting Gnosticism.

Only basic reading skills are required to see that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

Apparently, these passages of scripture were cut out of the Bibles used by the seminaries that you attended.

.

 

[Quasar92]

Truth is often accused of being ridiculous. It enjoys a good guffaw.

Don't neglect to check out Pastor Reckart here.

*I am well acquainted with Pastor Reckart and I post only thse things I have selected from him that are in complete alignment with the Scriptures. We do nt see eye to eye on the rest of his belief system.


Qusar92

 

[Quasar92]

Your statement above is more than a little strange, since all seminaries do not teach the same thing.

Maybe you think the only "accredited" Bible College would be one that teaches modern Dispensational Theology.

My wife and I support Providence Theological Seminary in Tennessee, which has rejected both Reformed Covenant Theology and modern Dispensational Theology.
It teaches the Bible from a New Covenant perspective.

Providence Theological Seminary

God's Word does not require a seminary degree in order to understand what is plainly written in scripture. Claiming otherwise is promoting Gnosticism.

Only basic reading skills are required to see that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

Apparently, these passages of scripture were cut out of the Bibles used by the seminaries that you attended.

.

You wrote the following: >>>Only basic reading skills are required to see that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

Apparently, these passages of scripture were cut out of the Bibles used by the seminaries that you attended.<<<

You have been told a number of times before, that the New Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus in His first advent. There is no disagreement on that Scriptural fact at all. Where you go wrong, is your belief the Church is Israel, which is non-Scriptura and completely false.

Israel has not yet accepted the New Covenant yet, because it requires belief in Jesus Christ in order to do so. Israel will not accept Jesus as their Messiah until His second coming, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5. That is an example of the lay expositor without formal Bible training go wrong.

FYI, the Bible Colleges I went to not only have all those Scriptures in the Bible, but also know that Israel has not yet accepted it, as well as that the Church is not Israel.


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Israel has not yet accepted the New Covenant yet, because it requires belief in Jesus Christ in order to do so. Israel will not accept Jesus as their Messiah until His second coming, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5. That is an example of the lay expositor without formal Bible training go wrong.

FYI, the Bible Colleges I went to not only have all those Scriptures in the Bible, but also know that Israel has not yet accepted it, as well as that the Church is not Israel.

Your problem is that Hebrews 8:6 and Hebrews 8:13 are written in the present tense during the first century.
In between these two verses lies the exact text from Jeremiah 31:31-34, being fulfilled during the first century.

You must also ignore Peter addressing the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36, and Paul identifying himself as an "Israelite" in Romans 11:1.

Then you must also redefine the passage found below.

Gal 6:15　 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.　

Galatians 6:16

(CJB)　 And as many as order their lives by this rule, shalom upon them and mercy, and upon the Isra'el of God!

(ESV)　 And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

(Geneva)　 And as many as walke according to this rule, peace shalbe vpon them, and mercie, and vpon the Israel of God.

(GW)　 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.

(LITV-TSP)　 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace and mercy be on them and on the Israel of God.

(KJV)　 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

(KJV+)　 AndG2532 as many asG3745 walkG4748 according to thisG5129 rule,G2583 peaceG1515 be onG1909 them,G846 andG2532 mercy,G1656 andG2532 uponG1909 theG3588 IsraelG2474 of God.G2316

(NKJV)　 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

(YLT)　 and as many as by this rule do walk—peace upon them, and kindness, and on the Israel of God!

This is what is required to make modern Dispensational Theology work.

Thank God that no formal training is required to read what is plainly written in God's Word.
A priest or a pope or a preacher or a seminary degree is not required.


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