Zoology & Mythological Creatures: Do You Feel Supernatural Life in Religions are real?

Gxg (G²) · Oct 22, 2017

Have to say, even though I was never into books like Harry Potter for a myriad of reasons, that I absolutely LOVED the concept behind "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them." Guessing it was the Zoologist in me that loved the concept of collecting mythological creatures which were endangered (or forgotten) and helping them out.

The concept of a magizoologist is intriguing to me because the concept of studying mythological creatures is fascinating, especially seeing how certain creatures you'd see in things like "The Chronicles of Narnia" by C.S. Lewis or "Lord of the Rings" were not feared by Christians in antiquity. It was simply another life form, just as the angelic realm had several types of angels (Including those with chariots driven by horses made of fire). The world of Narnia is populated mainly by talking animals. But it also includes mythological creatures and figures, such as fauns, nymphs, dryads, Bacchus, and Silenus from the Greek and Roman traditions, and dwarfs and giants from Norse mythology. In the ancient world, to see such things was not a surprise. What mattered more than anything else was the messages they brought with them.

And I have to say that it perplexes me whenever I talk to Christians and think "Am I one of the only folks believing it's MORE than possible for God to have created a world of diversity that includes creatures we don't know how to categorize?"

I read through Genesis 1 where it describes the beasts of the field/all creatures in the seas made - and I honestly do not see why we assume that other things in God's creation (besides man) have to lack intelligence. Angels are not human and yet they have intelligence, so being made in the Image of God does not mean only mankind has rational thought or intelligence in the universe. The concept of other mythological creatures with thought and a range of development, from a griffin to a dragon - or even something as crazy as mermaids/fairies or elves - that does not really throw me off. There are lots of things we are not given awareness of and may not know till the other side of life past the grave.

As said best elsewhere (What History Says About 'Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them' ):

___________________________________________________________
"Stephen Asma, a professor of philosophy at Columbia College Chicago and author of On Monsters, says that the connection goes all the way back to the idea that there would be a Fantastic Beasts book that Harry Potter might read at school. Such a compendium of creatures is a very old concept, started in the ancient world.
“Aristotle was writing about 'fantastic beasts' in the Hellenic period,” he says, referring to the Greek philosopher’s Historia Animallium. In the movie, Scamander’s beasts are feared by nearly everyone but himself. Asma sees another connection there: he says that terror about mystical creatures wasn’t that big of a thing in Aristotle’s time. Initially, Greek and Roman cultures were interested in supernatural creatures because they were surprising and different, but their myths didn't position such animals as dangerous or demonic. That came later, in the Medieval period and into the dawn of Christianity, as older monster myths met the stories of the Bible. "Whenever you see monsters described in the medieval period and into the 1600s," Asma says, "you’ll often see them said to be the descendants of Cain, and a good example of this is in Beowulf.” (The Old English poem features a villain named Grendel who is referred to as the "kin of Cain.")
“So this makes monsters in the Christian tradition pretty much all evil. What I like about Rowling is she’s going back to this other notion of monsters,” Asma says. “That they’re just creatures like us trying to get through life, and we can befriend them and they can help us and we can help them.”
___________________________________________________________

Gxg (G²) · Oct 22, 2017

Gxg (G²) said:
Have to say, even though I was never into books like Harry Potter for a myriad of reasons, that I absolutely LOVED the concept behind "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them." Guessing it was the Zoologist in me that loved the concept of collecting mythological creatures which were endangered (or forgotten) and helping them out.

The concept of a magizoologist is intriguing to me because the concept of studying mythological creatures is fascinating, especially seeing how certain creatures you'd see in things like "The Chronicles of Narnia" by C.S. Lewis or "Lord of the Rings" were not feared by Christians in antiquity. It was simply another life form, just as the angelic realm had several types of angels (Including those with chariots driven by horses made of fire). The world of Narnia is populated mainly by talking animals. But it also includes mythological creatures and figures, such as fauns, nymphs, dryads, Bacchus, and Silenus from the Greek and Roman traditions, and dwarfs and giants from Norse mythology. In the ancient world, to see such things was not a surprise. What mattered more than anything else was the messages they brought with them.

And I have to say that it perplexes me whenever I talk to Christians and think "Am I one of the only folks believing it's MORE than possible for God to have created a world of diversity that includes creatures we don't know how to categorize?"

I read through Genesis 1 where it describes the beasts of the field/all creatures in the seas made - and I honestly do not see why we assume that other things in God's creation (besides man) have to lack intelligence. Angels are not human and yet they have intelligence, so being made in the Image of God does not mean only mankind has rational thought or intelligence in the universe. The concept of other mythological creatures with thought and a range of development, from a griffin to a dragon - or even something as crazy as mermaids/fairies or elves - that does not really throw me off. There are lots of things we are not given awareness of and may not know till the other side of life past the grave.

As said best elsewhere (What History Says About 'Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them' ):

___________________________________________________________
"Stephen Asma, a professor of philosophy at Columbia College Chicago and author of On Monsters, says that the connection goes all the way back to the idea that there would be a Fantastic Beasts book that Harry Potter might read at school. Such a compendium of creatures is a very old concept, started in the ancient world.
“Aristotle was writing about 'fantastic beasts' in the Hellenic period,” he says, referring to the Greek philosopher’s Historia Animallium. In the movie, Scamander’s beasts are feared by nearly everyone but himself. Asma sees another connection there: he says that terror about mystical creatures wasn’t that big of a thing in Aristotle’s time. Initially, Greek and Roman cultures were interested in supernatural creatures because they were surprising and different, but their myths didn't position such animals as dangerous or demonic. That came later, in the Medieval period and into the dawn of Christianity, as older monster myths met the stories of the Bible. "Whenever you see monsters described in the medieval period and into the 1600s," Asma says, "you’ll often see them said to be the descendants of Cain, and a good example of this is in Beowulf.” (The Old English poem features a villain named Grendel who is referred to as the "kin of Cain.")
“So this makes monsters in the Christian tradition pretty much all evil. What I like about Rowling is she’s going back to this other notion of monsters,” Asma says. “That they’re just creatures like us trying to get through life, and we can befriend them and they can help us and we can help them.”
___________________________________________________________

As a side note, I do think there's a lot to be said on various myths AND I do think the idea of a world BEHIND a world makes a lot of sense....the one you're not supposed to see openly because they are taking care of what they were designed to do - out of sight. I don't really think people just came up with ideas like fairies or other creatures out of nowhere. They really did, I believe, come in contact with such things and they weren't automatically demonic or negative. What mattered was what got said.
And yes, with That said, Have to say, I was watching the movie HellBoy II recently and I loved the way they described the other creatures of legend....if they ever found a way to connect what happened with Prince Nuada (favorite warrior elf EVER) to what occurred in Middle Earth centuries ago, my vote would go for him being able to handle Mordor. Of course, he'd not be a fan of men and probably would have had beef with the elves in that time (but he'd do well with Legolas's father) - but it was interesting seeing the movie (

)

What's interesting, of course, is that fans of Celtic mytholog will recognize the name of the film's principle villain, Prince Nuada, a character loosely modeled after an important figure in the ancient folklore of Ireland.

-"'Hellboy' Taps Into Ancient Irish Folklore" ('Hellboy' Taps Into Ancient Irish Folklore )

What's also fascinating is that when St.Patrick came to Ireland and showed the power of Christ, he did not deny that the Irish believed in supernatural creatures or beings - and he did not say they were not real. He simply said that Christ had FAR more power and true dominion over them all.

I loved the review of St.Patrick, Irish Missionaries and the Irish culture that was noted in "How the Irish Saved Civilization."

As Thomas Cahill said best about how St.Patrick saw Celtic Mythology and ideas:

“In becoming an Irishman, Patrick wedded his world to theirs, his faith to their life…Patrick found a way of swimming down to the depths of the Irish psyche and warming and transforming Irish imagination – making it more humane and more noble while keeping it Irish.” (116)

“The difference between Patrick’s magic and the magic of the druids is that in Patrick’s world all beings and events come from the hand of a good God, who loves human beings and wishes them success. And though that success is of an ultimate kind – and, therefore, does not preclude suffering – all nature, indeed the whole of the created universe, conspires to mankind’s good, teaching, succoring, and saving.” (131)

Essentially, The Christianity he proposed to the Irish succeeded because it took away the dread from the magical world that was Ireland since there was much fear of the supernatural in Ireland with differing creatures..

-"How The Irish Saved Civilization | Review & Notes" ( How The Irish Saved Civilization | Review & Notes )

Gxg (G²) · Oct 22, 2017

Gxg (G²) said:
As a side note, I do think there's a lot to be said on various myths AND I do think the idea of a world BEHIND a world makes a lot of sense....the one you're not supposed to see openly because they are taking care of what they were designed to do - out of sight. I don't really think people just came up with ideas like fairies or other creatures out of nowhere. They really did, I believe, come in contact with such things and they weren't automatically demonic or negative. What mattered was what got said.
And yes, with That said, Have to say, I was watching the movie HellBoy II recently and I loved the way they described the other creatures of legend....if they ever found a way to connect what happened with Prince Nuada (favorite warrior elf EVER) to what occurred in Middle Earth centuries ago, my vote would go for him being able to handle Mordor. Of course, he'd not be a fan of men and probably would have had beef with the elves in that time (but he'd do well with Legolas's father) - but it was interesting seeing the movie (

)

What's interesting, of course, is that fans of Celtic mytholog will recognize the name of the film's principle villain, Prince Nuada, a character loosely modeled after an important figure in the ancient folklore of Ireland.

-"'Hellboy' Taps Into Ancient Irish Folklore" ('Hellboy' Taps Into Ancient Irish Folklore )

What's also fascinating is that when St.Patrick came to Ireland and showed the power of Christ, he did not deny that the Irish believed in supernatural creatures or beings - and he did not say they were not real. He simply said that Christ had FAR more power and true dominion over them all.

I loved the review of St.Patrick, Irish Missionaries and the Irish culture that was noted in "How the Irish Saved Civilization."

As Thomas Cahill said best about how St.Patrick saw Celtic Mythology and ideas:

“In becoming an Irishman, Patrick wedded his world to theirs, his faith to their life…Patrick found a way of swimming down to the depths of the Irish psyche and warming and transforming Irish imagination – making it more humane and more noble while keeping it Irish.” (116)

“The difference between Patrick’s magic and the magic of the druids is that in Patrick’s world all beings and events come from the hand of a good God, who loves human beings and wishes them success. And though that success is of an ultimate kind – and, therefore, does not preclude suffering – all nature, indeed the whole of the created universe, conspires to mankind’s good, teaching, succoring, and saving.” (131)

Essentially, The Christianity he proposed to the Irish succeeded because it took away the dread from the magical world that was Ireland since there was much fear of the supernatural in Ireland with differing creatures..

-"How The Irish Saved Civilization | Review & Notes" ( How The Irish Saved Civilization | Review & Notes )

Gxg (G²) said:
Have to say, even though I was never into books like Harry Potter for a myriad of reasons, that I absolutely LOVED the concept behind "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them." Guessing it was the Zoologist in me that loved the concept of collecting mythological creatures which were endangered (or forgotten) and helping them out.

The concept of a magizoologist is intriguing to me because the concept of studying mythological creatures is fascinating, especially seeing how certain creatures you'd see in things like "The Chronicles of Narnia" by C.S. Lewis or "Lord of the Rings" were not feared by Christians in antiquity. It was simply another life form, just as the angelic realm had several types of angels (Including those with chariots driven by horses made of fire). The world of Narnia is populated mainly by talking animals. But it also includes mythological creatures and figures, such as fauns, nymphs, dryads, Bacchus, and Silenus from the Greek and Roman traditions, and dwarfs and giants from Norse mythology. In the ancient world, to see such things was not a surprise. What mattered more than anything else was the messages they brought with them.

And I have to say that it perplexes me whenever I talk to Christians and think "Am I one of the only folks believing it's MORE than possible for God to have created a world of diversity that includes creatures we don't know how to categorize?"

I read through Genesis 1 where it describes the beasts of the field/all creatures in the seas made - and I honestly do not see why we assume that other things in God's creation (besides man) have to lack intelligence. Angels are not human and yet they have intelligence, so being made in the Image of God does not mean only mankind has rational thought or intelligence in the universe. The concept of other mythological creatures with thought and a range of development, from a griffin to a dragon - or even something as crazy as mermaids/fairies or elves - that does not really throw me off. There are lots of things we are not given awareness of and may not know till the other side of life past the grave.

As said best elsewhere (What History Says About 'Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them' ):

___________________________________________________________
"Stephen Asma, a professor of philosophy at Columbia College Chicago and author of On Monsters, says that the connection goes all the way back to the idea that there would be a Fantastic Beasts book that Harry Potter might read at school. Such a compendium of creatures is a very old concept, started in the ancient world.
“Aristotle was writing about 'fantastic beasts' in the Hellenic period,” he says, referring to the Greek philosopher’s Historia Animallium. In the movie, Scamander’s beasts are feared by nearly everyone but himself. Asma sees another connection there: he says that terror about mystical creatures wasn’t that big of a thing in Aristotle’s time. Initially, Greek and Roman cultures were interested in supernatural creatures because they were surprising and different, but their myths didn't position such animals as dangerous or demonic. That came later, in the Medieval period and into the dawn of Christianity, as older monster myths met the stories of the Bible. "Whenever you see monsters described in the medieval period and into the 1600s," Asma says, "you’ll often see them said to be the descendants of Cain, and a good example of this is in Beowulf.” (The Old English poem features a villain named Grendel who is referred to as the "kin of Cain.")
“So this makes monsters in the Christian tradition pretty much all evil. What I like about Rowling is she’s going back to this other notion of monsters,” Asma says. “That they’re just creatures like us trying to get through life, and we can befriend them and they can help us and we can help them.”
___________________________________________________________

Has anyone read CS Lewis' Space Trilogy? In the second book "Perelandra" he posits that mythological creatures on Earth may actually exist on other worlds....he meets (I think! it has been probably 10 years since I last read them) a tiny dragon, and maybe a counterpart to Cyclops..

Lewis approached the issue from the perspective of "What would happen if there was a world where The Fall hadn't occurred yet?" - and it was cool to see that the villains in these books are human agents who would try to exploit such a world, introducing sin in the process.

C.S Lewis, in his "Space Triology" series, was very brilliant in the ways that he brought out the concept of alien worlds existing and yet still needing to be under the rule/lordship of the Almighty God - and of course, it makes sense on the issue when considering the vastness of God.

For reference, one can go here ( Between Mars and Malacandra, Fantasy and Real Life )) / ( http://www.world-destiny.org/ocv/46lewisR.pdf )

-"Myth in CS Lewis's Perelandra " ( http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1234&context=masters )

-"Animals as a Theme in the Writings of C. S. Lewis- Ann F. Patterson" ( Animals as a Theme in the Writings of C. S. Lewis- Ann F. Patterson | Charlie W. Starr )

- A Mythical Approach to Christian Orthodoxy: C. S. Lewis's Space Trilogy." ( http://preserve.lehigh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3274&context=etd )

Gxg (G²) · Oct 22, 2017

Gxg (G²) said:
Have to say, even though I was never into books like Harry Potter for a myriad of reasons, that I absolutely LOVED the concept behind "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them." Guessing it was the Zoologist in me that loved the concept of collecting mythological creatures which were endangered (or forgotten) and helping them out.

The concept of a magizoologist is intriguing to me because the concept of studying mythological creatures is fascinating, especially seeing how certain creatures you'd see in things like "The Chronicles of Narnia" by C.S. Lewis or "Lord of the Rings" were not feared by Christians in antiquity. It was simply another life form, just as the angelic realm had several types of angels (Including those with chariots driven by horses made of fire). The world of Narnia is populated mainly by talking animals. But it also includes mythological creatures and figures, such as fauns, nymphs, dryads, Bacchus, and Silenus from the Greek and Roman traditions, and dwarfs and giants from Norse mythology. In the ancient world, to see such things was not a surprise. What mattered more than anything else was the messages they brought with them.

And I have to say that it perplexes me whenever I talk to Christians and think "Am I one of the only folks believing it's MORE than possible for God to have created a world of diversity that includes creatures we don't know how to categorize?"

I read through Genesis 1 where it describes the beasts of the field/all creatures in the seas made - and I honestly do not see why we assume that other things in God's creation (besides man) have to lack intelligence. Angels are not human and yet they have intelligence, so being made in the Image of God does not mean only mankind has rational thought or intelligence in the universe. The concept of other mythological creatures with thought and a range of development, from a griffin to a dragon - or even something as crazy as mermaids/fairies or elves - that does not really throw me off. There are lots of things we are not given awareness of and may not know till the other side of life past the grave.

As said best elsewhere (What History Says About 'Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them' ):

___________________________________________________________
"Stephen Asma, a professor of philosophy at Columbia College Chicago and author of On Monsters, says that the connection goes all the way back to the idea that there would be a Fantastic Beasts book that Harry Potter might read at school. Such a compendium of creatures is a very old concept, started in the ancient world.
“Aristotle was writing about 'fantastic beasts' in the Hellenic period,” he says, referring to the Greek philosopher’s Historia Animallium. In the movie, Scamander’s beasts are feared by nearly everyone but himself. Asma sees another connection there: he says that terror about mystical creatures wasn’t that big of a thing in Aristotle’s time. Initially, Greek and Roman cultures were interested in supernatural creatures because they were surprising and different, but their myths didn't position such animals as dangerous or demonic. That came later, in the Medieval period and into the dawn of Christianity, as older monster myths met the stories of the Bible. "Whenever you see monsters described in the medieval period and into the 1600s," Asma says, "you’ll often see them said to be the descendants of Cain, and a good example of this is in Beowulf.” (The Old English poem features a villain named Grendel who is referred to as the "kin of Cain.")
“So this makes monsters in the Christian tradition pretty much all evil. What I like about Rowling is she’s going back to this other notion of monsters,” Asma says. “That they’re just creatures like us trying to get through life, and we can befriend them and they can help us and we can help them.”
___________________________________________________________

If anyone has never heard, I would HIGHLY suggest checking out the film "Gargoyles" - it is one of the best shows showing the ways mythological beings and human interactions could look from a long-term perspective. This is from one of my favorite episodes, called "The New Olympians" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPIAXD4ZeXs )

Growing up on this series (both for the artwork/ melodrama), I love the way it was ahead of its time talking on differing races/species and groups interacted over centuries (be it Gargoyles, Humans, Oberon's children, etc.).

Shakespearean themes were so strong in most of the episodes. It is still among the most epic series ever and the story arcs/mythology it dives into are always fascinating when seeing how it also discusses the way science and mysticism are not automatically opposites.

Noxot · Oct 22, 2017

i'm sure that there are unknown creatures that are both like animals and like humans. i'm not a big believer that all the things myths claim to exist really exist in the same manner that biological creatures exist. there could be creatures in our world that are very alien from what we consider to be biological life or they could just be human made ballons in the sky that are distorted by camera lens and light and what not.

I would not be surprised if strange creatures exist on planets that are different from earth i.e. I expect life in a planet like Jupiter to be different from the life of creatures in the earth.

in one of the early christian letters clement seems to believe that the phoenix was a real creature of which there was only one of and of course was a symbol for Jesus Christ.

people like terence mckenna swear up and down that strange beings do exist. he was an promoter of psychedelics.

some are speculating that the egyptians knew of a way to extract DMT out of a certain native tree that has a high content of DMT in it and that maybe the OT religion came about in part due to shamanism. I would not be surprised if moses had access to some occult knowledge due to him living in egypt.

I recall in a certain book of the bible that is not included in protestant versions that a prophet was told by an angel going by the name of uriel that he was to fast and only eat the flower petals of some plant and to stay in the area he was in.

since symbolic reality is an expression of truth of the spirit it means our celestial bodies will be whatever form/s best designate ourselves.

also I am pretty sure sophisticated AI-like beings exist and might even exist in our universe in the future or exist somewhere now. I would not at all be surprised if some kind of life form such as transformers really do exist somewhere out there. it almost seems natural to me for a planet to be converted by advanced AI nanobots into a kind of mobile entity that travels the universe. I would not be surprised if God would work through other things and beings to create new forms of life.

I have always enjoyed looking at dungeons and dragons monster manuals.

drjean · Oct 22, 2017

Actually, since you mentioned Harry Potter stories, there are a myriad of Christian references and symbology in them. I still wouldn't push them on innocent children though. Did anyone notice the Christmas tree at the one holiday dinner?

God says ALL CREATION groans and travails together.

No telling what creatures were totally destroyed after the flood due to the the REAL "climate change".

Jane_the_Bane · Oct 23, 2017

Only looking at the current form of our species, homo sapiens sapiens, our history spans at least a hundred thousand years - yet we've only recorded the last 10,000, max. Anything prior to that is either lost to the past, faintly remembered in ancient myth, or visible only in trace artifacts buried in the ground.

Who knows how many of our humanoid creatures of legend were in fact people once? Forgotten tribes who were taller or smaller than the ones remembering them, becoming giants or little folk in their memory? Most of the languages spoken in our distant past were forgotten before people started to write them down. Few signs of them remain, such as the nautic vocabulary on Indo-European languages, which was apparently acquired from an unknown source.

We *do* know that modern man and homo neanderthalensis existed side by side for several thousand years, to the point where we can find Neanderthal DNA in people from Europe. Who can tell if they weren't templates for goblins or ogres? Just look at how people used to view different ethnicities of our own species, even though they were not even separate races.

I do guess it is safe to say that many mythological creatures have never existed outside of the realm of ideas. Yet that realm is vast, and extends way beyond our individual caprice.

Quid est Veritas? · Oct 23, 2017

Gxg (G²) said:
Have to say, even though I was never into books like Harry Potter for a myriad of reasons, that I absolutely LOVED the concept behind "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them." Guessing it was the Zoologist in me that loved the concept of collecting mythological creatures which were endangered (or forgotten) and helping them out.

The concept of a magizoologist is intriguing to me because the concept of studying mythological creatures is fascinating, especially seeing how certain creatures you'd see in things like "The Chronicles of Narnia" by C.S. Lewis or "Lord of the Rings" were not feared by Christians in antiquity. It was simply another life form, just as the angelic realm had several types of angels (Including those with chariots driven by horses made of fire). The world of Narnia is populated mainly by talking animals. But it also includes mythological creatures and figures, such as fauns, nymphs, dryads, Bacchus, and Silenus from the Greek and Roman traditions, and dwarfs and giants from Norse mythology. In the ancient world, to see such things was not a surprise. What mattered more than anything else was the messages they brought with them.

And I have to say that it perplexes me whenever I talk to Christians and think "Am I one of the only folks believing it's MORE than possible for God to have created a world of diversity that includes creatures we don't know how to categorize?"

I read through Genesis 1 where it describes the beasts of the field/all creatures in the seas made - and I honestly do not see why we assume that other things in God's creation (besides man) have to lack intelligence. Angels are not human and yet they have intelligence, so being made in the Image of God does not mean only mankind has rational thought or intelligence in the universe. The concept of other mythological creatures with thought and a range of development, from a griffin to a dragon - or even something as crazy as mermaids/fairies or elves - that does not really throw me off. There are lots of things we are not given awareness of and may not know till the other side of life past the grave.

As said best elsewhere (What History Says About 'Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them' ):

___________________________________________________________
"Stephen Asma, a professor of philosophy at Columbia College Chicago and author of On Monsters, says that the connection goes all the way back to the idea that there would be a Fantastic Beasts book that Harry Potter might read at school. Such a compendium of creatures is a very old concept, started in the ancient world.
“Aristotle was writing about 'fantastic beasts' in the Hellenic period,” he says, referring to the Greek philosopher’s Historia Animallium. In the movie, Scamander’s beasts are feared by nearly everyone but himself. Asma sees another connection there: he says that terror about mystical creatures wasn’t that big of a thing in Aristotle’s time. Initially, Greek and Roman cultures were interested in supernatural creatures because they were surprising and different, but their myths didn't position such animals as dangerous or demonic. That came later, in the Medieval period and into the dawn of Christianity, as older monster myths met the stories of the Bible. "Whenever you see monsters described in the medieval period and into the 1600s," Asma says, "you’ll often see them said to be the descendants of Cain, and a good example of this is in Beowulf.” (The Old English poem features a villain named Grendel who is referred to as the "kin of Cain.")
“So this makes monsters in the Christian tradition pretty much all evil. What I like about Rowling is she’s going back to this other notion of monsters,” Asma says. “That they’re just creatures like us trying to get through life, and we can befriend them and they can help us and we can help them.”
___________________________________________________________

Aristotle's Historia Animalium is the founding work of Zoology. It is not a work of fantastic or mythic animals, but a sober attempt to explain known animals. Aristotle dissected and observed animals to write it, even debunking myths like Hyaenas being hermaphrodites within it. Some of his descriptions, like cephalapod mating tentacles or placental birth in the smooth dogfish, was only confirmed again in the 19th century.

He did rely on travellers reports for lesser known animals, like the Asian Rhinoceros, with a few errors here and there - thus inadvertedly creating the European Unicorn for instance. It is however not a bestiary of the mediaeval type. Aristotle did not add creatures he thought too fantastic to exist or that he couldn't verify from trusted sources. It is a work of Empiricism, in short.

I really like fantastic creatures of the past though. Myths like Pelicans feeding their broods with their own blood or lions sleeping with their eyes open, are fun and wonderfully allegorical.

My favourite is the Vegetable Lamb of Tartary. This is a tree with lambs as fruit, that graze around it as they hang low from its branches. This perhaps arose as a garbled account of Cotton.

Zoness · Oct 23, 2017

Ah, this is a neat thread. I love mythical creatures! More so, I enjoy entertaining the idea that at least some of them might have existed at one time. Like Jane said in her post, all of humanity has only been around for a sliver of the time the planet has been life-bearing. I'd extend that thought by saying; consider how many species humanity has inadvertently wiped out due to natural human progression and pollution. It's entirely some creatures we think of as mythical did exist at one time. At least, I sure like that idea.

Gxg (G²) said:
What's also fascinating is that when St.Patrick came to Ireland and showed the power of Christ, he did not deny that the Irish believed in supernatural creatures or beings - and he did not say they were not real. He simply said that Christ had FAR more power and true dominion over them all.

I loved the review of St.Patrick, Irish Missionaries and the Irish culture that was noted in "How the Irish Saved Civilization."

As Thomas Cahill said best about how St.Patrick saw Celtic Mythology and ideas:

“In becoming an Irishman, Patrick wedded his world to theirs, his faith to their life…Patrick found a way of swimming down to the depths of the Irish psyche and warming and transforming Irish imagination – making it more humane and more noble while keeping it Irish.” (116)

“The difference between Patrick’s magic and the magic of the druids is that in Patrick’s world all beings and events come from the hand of a good God, who loves human beings and wishes them success. And though that success is of an ultimate kind – and, therefore, does not preclude suffering – all nature, indeed the whole of the created universe, conspires to mankind’s good, teaching, succoring, and saving.” (131)
Essentially, The Christianity he proposed to the Irish succeeded because it took away the dread from the magical world that was Ireland since there was much fear of the supernatural in Ireland with differing creatures..

I find this whole comment to be interesting but taking the bold section first; I've met a number of Christian occultists who have a similar understanding of magic and the occult universe. One of those folks is one of my oldest friends who I have a great deal of respect for.

Now moving on...

Especially in the pagan circles, the Christianization of Europe tends to leave a bad taste in our mouth since this meant wiping out the people and faith that many modern pagan faiths are based on. While that was definitely true at times, its not always quite so simple. In effect, Christianity was top-down in many parts of Europe and took centuries to take root through all levels of society nonviolently. In fact that's where the idea of a pagan (lit. "country dweller") originated from, as country hinterlands were considered the last places to become Christian.

All of this said, this story sort of reminds me that Christianization meant different things to different peoples. Apparently in the case of the Irish, the idea of a magic and mythical world alongside of the Christian ideas was apparently not a matter of much conflict. I personally tend to think of Christianization as a wholesale "trade of cosmology/mythology" from pagan to Christian but that's a bit too linear.

Interesting.

Silmarien · Oct 23, 2017

Zoness said:
Especially in the pagan circles, the Christianization of Europe tends to leave a bad taste in our mouth since this meant wiping out the people and faith that many modern pagan faiths are based on. While that was definitely true at times, its not always quite so simple. In effect, Christianity was top-down in many parts of Europe and took centuries to take root through all levels of society nonviolently. In fact that's where the idea of a pagan (lit. "country dweller") originated from, as country hinterlands were considered the last places to become Christian.

All of this said, this story sort of reminds me that Christianization meant different things to different peoples. Apparently in the case of the Irish, the idea of a magic and mythical world alongside of the Christian ideas was apparently not a matter of much conflict. I personally tend to think of Christianization as a wholesale "trade of cosmology/mythology" from pagan to Christian but that's a bit too linear.

I was in Rome two weeks ago, and was really intrigued by the history behind the Pantheon--that old Roman temple only survived because it was converted into a church, so the question of how much of paganism was preserved rather than destroyed by Christianity is certainly an interesting one. Between repurposed places of worship, co-opted holidays, and perhaps even ritualistic similarities, I do wonder how much of the pagan world survives in Christianity. You do get fullblown Neoplatonic mysticism in certain traditions, after all.

On the other hand, I've always been pretty sad about the diminishment of certain mythological figures. The Tuatha Dé Danann dwindle away until all that's left is leprechauns, the Ljósálfar make way for fairies and Christmas elves. It's pretty interesting if you take Saint Patrick's approach and say that maybe this happened specifically because the pagan gods were domesticated metaphysically by Christianity, though.

...anyway, yes. Obviously I like mythological creatures too. ^_^

My favorite fringe theory is the one by which alien abductions are just a modern update of fairy abductions, and there is and has always been something else here with us, just out of reach...

Quid est Veritas? · Oct 24, 2017

Silmarien said:
I was in Rome two weeks ago, and was really intrigued by the history behind the Pantheon--that old Roman temple only survived because it was converted into a church, so the question of how much of paganism was preserved rather than destroyed by Christianity is certainly an interesting one. Between repurposed places of worship, co-opted holidays, and perhaps even ritualistic similarities, I do wonder how much of the pagan world survives in Christianity. You do get fullblown Neoplatonic mysticism in certain traditions, after all.

On the other hand, I've always been pretty sad about the diminishment of certain mythological figures. The Tuatha Dé Danann dwindle away until all that's left is leprechauns, the Ljósálfar make way for fairies and Christmas elves. It's pretty interesting if you take Saint Patrick's approach and say that maybe this happened specifically because the pagan gods were domesticated metaphysically by Christianity, though.

...anyway, yes. Obviously I like mythological creatures too. My favorite fringe theory is the one by which alien abductions are just a modern update of fairy abductions, and there is and has always been something else here with us, just out of reach...

A lot of Pagan influence is overplayed sometimes, but it really is there in Christianity: The Catholic Church still preserves Roman provincial borders in some of its diocese; the Pope still carries the titulature Pontifex Maximus of pagan high priests; vestments still reflect Roman attire like the pallium; etc. Theologic influence is overstated, but hellenistic philosophic influence was marked, as you are well aware.

@Zoness it is sometimes a very peculiar manner how Christianity replaced the Pagan. German peasants still left bundles of wheat in their fields in the 19th century - presumably a pagan practice, but completely shorn of context. The same is also true of some traditional rhymes.
Some places like Lithuania, the pagan priests directly walked over into Christianity on the conversion of the Grand Duke; or Iceland where the Althing parliament debated whether they should convert or not, to forstall possible tensions, thus a largely pagan land instantaneously supposedly Christianised.
The fact is that pagan gods and myths still played a very large part in mediaeval society, although as pop-culture more than truth. Everyone still read Aesop's fables and even pseudo-history was based on Pagan models- such as Brutus, the son of Aeneas of Troy, being the founder of Britain.
We meet a lot of pagan mythology in Dante, with virtuous pagans in Limbo, the rivers of Hades such as Styx, Archeron, Phlegethon, etc. and chthonic Minos still sitting in judgement. Such eclecticism is very common in mediaeval texts, so to think Pagan conceptions were thrown out the window for Christian ones, is very flawed. Roman gods of Martianus Capella's Marriage of Philology and Mercury, were very much at the heart of mediaeval intellectual life. While not conceived in the same manner, the cultures merged, and over time some elements remained within the popular culture and others were jettisoned. The church played little part in this beyond underwriting some as truth, other as myth. Viking sagas and Irish mythology came to us from the pen of Church clerics, as the Church also copied and saved other pagan texts as the Western Empire fell as well. This was usually not in condemnation, but in celebration thereof.

On a side note: Temples were converted to Churches in much of the Empire, since after the public cults ended with Constantine's sucessors, these large state-run buildings stood empty. They were repurposed for the new state religion, transformed into law courts, or in extremis cannibalised for building materials.They did this with secular buildings too though, like Hadrian's mausoleum becoming the Castel Sant'Angelo or the Curia building becoming a Church. The Pantheon is a very good example of this.
This is how most temples survived. The Parthenon survived first as a Church, then a Mosque, until the Venetians blew it up in the 17th century. There was a rich tradition of Spolia, of repurposing decoration and building materials. The Arch of Constantine was largely cannibalised ftom older defunct buildings, for instance. This continued apace, with Temples being built into city walls or Churches. Lord Elgin taking the Parthenon marbles was busy with a human activity as old as the Pyramids (where they repurposed older kings' work as well, carving their own cartouches over previous ones).

Do you know the theory that the Firbolgs and Tuatha de Danaan reflect earlier historic invasions of Ireland? That a P-Celtic was overthrown by a Q-Celtic perhaps from Gallicia, as per the garbled Irish myths, which had itself overthrown a previous people. Etymologic substrate mapped to supposed mythic locations imperfectly support this contention.

This is how I think most of these things work. It is sort of Euhemeristic. We create grand mythologies from history, creating giants and ogres for Arthur to face, beyond his mundane Saxon foes. Most mythic beasts are also garbled accounts of real animals, for if you follow them back, you usually find a simple misunderstanding at the base that was magnified over time. I wrote a bit on the unicorn a while ago, as I find this an interesting idea:

How Zoology gave us the Unicorn

Lastly, Alien abduction and fairies - I like that too, as if 'thin places' still exist, but we interpret them more in line with our popular scientific culture instead of fairy realms or succubi, above and beyond materialist explanations like Sleep paralysis. I see no reason why we can't add layers of meaning according to context, have our Lovecraftian dimensions on top of Fisher King Castles while venturing into Acarnania to enter Hades.

Gxg (G²) · Oct 24, 2017

Zoness said:
Ah, this is a neat thread. I love mythical creatures! More so, I enjoy entertaining the idea that at least some of them might have existed at one time. Like Jane said in her post, all of humanity has only been around for a sliver of the time the planet has been life-bearing. I'd extend that thought by saying; consider how many species humanity has inadvertently wiped out due to natural human progression and pollution. It's entirely some creatures we think of as mythical did exist at one time. At least, I sure like that idea.

I agree....

As an aside, have ever heard of a show called Roswell Conspiracies: Aliens, Myths and Legends ?

It was an animated program that originally aired in 1999 and he show's premise was that aliens had been living among humans for ages, and were the origins of many of the creatures humans know from myth, folklore and legends, including vampires and werewolves.

Gxg (G²) · Oct 24, 2017

Zoness said:
I find this whole comment to be interesting but taking the bold section first; I've met a number of Christian occultists who have a similar understanding of magic and the occult universe. One of those folks is one of my oldest friends who I have a great deal of respect for.

Now moving on...

Part of me, @Zoness , still cracks up when considering what it'd be like if such creatures came back into view again and were part of the conversations occurring. Imagine the discussion on the bathroom issue, LOL.

Gxg (G²) · Oct 24, 2017

Zoness said:
Ah, this is a neat thread. I love mythical creatures! More so, I enjoy entertaining the idea that at least some of them might have existed at one time. Like Jane said in her post, all of humanity has only been around for a sliver of the time the planet has been life-bearing. I'd extend that thought by saying; consider how many species humanity has inadvertently wiped out due to natural human progression and pollution. It's entirely some creatures we think of as mythical did exist at one time. At least, I sure like that idea.

Sadly, we've already begun entering into the 6th Mass Extinction event on Earth. T

The amount of bio diversity lost is saddening and it is amazing to consider the ways that such things have occurred on our watch. I would not be surprised if other creatures before went through the same things - and if, at some point, creatures like the Tiger will be seen as a mythological creature generations from now. Of course, our world is not as spiritual in outlook as it was in antiquity and that means even having a concept of MYTH may not be as strong in the future...if we keep emphasizing science.

Especially in the pagan circles, the Christianization of Europe tends to leave a bad taste in our mouth since this meant wiping out the people and faith that many modern pagan faiths are based on. While that was definitely true at times, its not always quite so simple. In effect, Christianity was top-down in many parts of Europe and took centuries to take root through all levels of society nonviolently. In fact that's where the idea of a pagan (lit. "country dweller") originated from, as country hinterlands were considered the last places to become Christian.

Essentially, it was the aspect of what happens when the Wild West ceases to be wild because folks encounter one another/build over time...

All of this said, this story sort of reminds me that Christianization meant different things to different peoples. Apparently in the case of the Irish, the idea of a magic and mythical world alongside of the Christian ideas was apparently not a matter of much conflict. I personally tend to think of Christianization as a wholesale "trade of cosmology/mythology" from pagan to Christian but that's a bit too linear.

Interesting.

Part of me thinks on what occurred when it came to the rise of Christianity in areas and people making a case for the old ways to die out and it being a competition...

Gxg (G²) · Oct 24, 2017

Quid est Veritas? said:
Aristotle's Historia Animalium is the founding work of Zoology. It is not a work of fantastic or mythic animals, but a sober attempt to explain known animals. Aristotle dissected and observed animals to write it, even debunking myths like Hyaenas being hermaphrodites within it. Some of his descriptions, like cephalapod mating tentacles or placental birth in the smooth dogfish, was only confirmed again in the 19th century.

He did rely on travellers reports for lesser known animals, like the Asian Rhinoceros, with a few errors here and there - thus inadvertedly creating the European Unicorn for instance. It is however not a bestiary of the mediaeval type. Aristotle did not add creatures he thought too fantastic to exist or that he couldn't verify from trusted sources. It is a work of Empiricism, in short.

I really like fantastic creatures of the past though. Myths like Pelicans feeding their broods with their own blood or lions sleeping with their eyes open, are fun and wonderfully allegorical.

My favourite is the Vegetable Lamb of Tartary. This is a tree with lambs as fruit, that graze around it as they hang low from its branches. This perhaps arose as a garbled account of Cotton.

Very true points. I am aware of creatures like the Siberian rhinoceros, which was said to have existed among humans at some point. Such creatures and the ways the myths can develop from them have always been interesting...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...d-beast-lived-time-humans-legendary-myth.html

awitch · Oct 24, 2017

Gxg (G²) said:
I agree....

As an aside, have ever heard of a show called Roswell Conspiracies: Aliens, Myths and Legends ?

It was an animated program that originally aired in 1999 and he show's premise was that aliens had been living among humans for ages, and were the origins of many of the creatures humans know from myth, folklore and legends, including vampires and werewolves.

Just watched the first episode on watchcartoononline (the whole series is there). So episode 1 opens with a bunch of Banshees about to sacrifice a young woman but the ritual is interrupted by hovering aircraft with missile launchers. The X-Files references were not surprising either.

For aliens among us, I remember the Men In Black animated series but I think The Real Ghostbusters gets the win for mythological ghosts and creatures.

Gxg (G²) · Oct 25, 2017

awitch said:
Just watched the first episode on watchcartoononline (the whole series is there). So episode 1 opens with a bunch of Banshees about to sacrifice a young woman but the ritual is interrupted by hovering aircraft with missile launchers. The X-Files references were not surprising either.

For aliens among us, I remember the Men In Black animated series but I think The Real Ghostbusters gets the win for mythological ghosts and creatures.

Did you enjoy the Roswell Show?

Also, I do remember the Real Ghostbusters show - but I am not certain as to your thoughts on why you felt it took the win

Gxg (G²) · Oct 25, 2017

drjean said:
God says ALL CREATION groans and travails together.

No telling what creatures were totally destroyed after the flood due to the the REAL "climate change".

Very true

Gxg (G²) · Oct 25, 2017

Quid est Veritas? said:
I really like fantastic creatures of the past though. Myths like Pelicans feeding their broods with their own blood or lions sleeping with their eyes open, are fun and wonderfully allegorical.

My favourite is the Vegetable Lamb of Tartary. This is a tree with lambs as fruit, that graze around it as they hang low from its branches. This perhaps arose as a garbled account of Cotton.

I feel you @Quid est Veritas?

Personally, one of my favorite things to examine are mermaids. ...I do think mermaids are cool concepts, especially when seeing cultures treating what's called the MerWorld as legends and even noting that legends have legends. As I told @Zoness earlier, there are so many things about the world we do not know about - including life that may have adapted to other environments. The way they were often portrayed in media may have made a difference...

Hook - mermaids

Years ago, I saw "Pirates of the Caribbean 4" and I highly enjoyed many aspects of it. But something that stood out to me in the film was how they seemed to be more open about spirituality from a Biblical perspective.

In example, one of the main characters is named Philip. He's a missionary and he was trying to teach the pirates about the Lord, even though they mocked him continually.....and when it came to his desiring to reach them, they tried to use him as bait to lure some mermaids that they needed.

Many were shocked to see the way that mermaids were depicted within the film, though its actually closer to how folklore described them. For Like the sirens, mermaids are incredibly beautiful womenincredibly seductive womenthat lure men to their deaths.

A mermaid's greatest weapon was her radiant appearance.....and though they are women, they were also animal. The water line defines where they're women and where theyre creatures. Under the water, they are creatures and over the water, they're women. They were known to feed on the men, and thats how they see men, as something that sustains them. They may look lovely, but they can shred a human limb from limb in seconds.

With Philip, it seemed that his fate was sealed when the mermaids attacked.....and yet, when he was almost about to be killed by an explosion elsewhere, one mermaid saved him. Though she's depicted as good, she is captured nonetheless by the pirates - and the rest of the film shows how Philip and the mermaid began to fall in love.

It was a conflict for Philip since he was a priest/missionary and trained to think that only men had souls/relationship with the Divine.

Such beauty. Surely you are one of God's own creations...and not a descendant of those dark creatures who found no refuge on the Ark. Such beauty...and yet deadly."

"Deadly. No."

Philip Swift and Syrena

Inspired by her beauty, Philip began to fall deeply in love with the mermaid, whom he names Syrena, to make the crew see her as a person and not a monster. Syrena began to fall in love with him as well, seeing him as differentnot like the other men she dealt with.

For there are many things that were once thought to be impossible that were seen to be possible later on in history when gaining more information. Of course, depending on how much one likes science and the study of cryptid zoology - such as seeking out creatures thought to be unknown such as giant squids, bigfoot/yeti, thunderbird and many other things discussed in cultural histories - that may make a difference. I don't expect all others to agree, but I do think scripture gives basis for showing how much mixture between species did occur - and on the issue, it is something to consider if such things would've been able to look to the Lord.

Half human, half animal myths are common - and it may be that they're common for a reason beyond simple imagination. From the Greek Mythological depictions to the Egyptians, each of them seems to advocate and portray powerful creatures that were mixed....and as recently discovered, there are 4000 year old cave painting on the outskirts of Sydney that resemble Egyptian gods. How could a race of people cut off from the world have the same images as that of the ancient Egyptians, unless they were viewing the same thing. Could all the cultures have drawn the same creatures because they saw them with their own eyes? Possibly

Thr Book of Enoch, discussing how corruptions of breeding/genetics were common in the days of the Flood

As it is, We're going back there rather quickly, in light of all of the genetic experimentation on humans/animals and mixing them together...and others have wondered if those mixtures would be automatically lost by default.

BBC - Earth - The birth of half-human, half-animal chimeras

For me, when I consider what happened in the era of Genesis 6 and the Flood - with the Watchers violating their roles/stepping outside their authority to corrupt mankind - I have to consider the way that man was very advanced/capable of doing a lot of things.....many of which we're JUST now catching back up to in our era.

It has often been pointed out that early man may have been more intelligent than many realize...for there have been many scientific discussions on the capabilities of man back in early Human History and how many of the monuments that man made then (i.e. The Pyramids, The Easter Island Statues, STONE Henge, etc) could never have been made without the very advanced technology that we have available today - making others wonder just how advance we were back in early days and what exactly was lost. I think personally that we'd be amazed at how much what we have today may have been nothing compared to what they had then. For man to name ALL of the animals that GOd brought him in Genesis 2 and be a zoologist/botanist and gardener, one would have to think that man was truly brilliant..and there's no reason to think that brilliance went away after the FALL.

If man was truly a scientific GENIUS during his creation and able to do things that we've only dreamed of because of his perfection, naturally, he would have been capable of doing ennormous feats of power that many are either just now discovering over the recent centuries...or realizing that there's more to learn/go with.

And due to man's wickedness, its interesting to see what he's capable of when he tries to cross barriers. There's a book that I remember coming across called The Island of Dr Moreau---a very dark tale of a man named Dr. Moreau who learned how to successfully use human DNA in animals to make them more humanlike and regress their animal instincts.

Every time my mother and I discussed the book/film, we automatically thought of Genesis 6 and why the Lord decided to wipe out men in the Flood. For there may've been MANY things occurring that should NEVER have occurred.

My own mother and I have often discussed the issue of how it seems to be the case that the "heroes of old" in Genesis 6 seems to be in reference to where all of the great world religions get their stories and mythologies----be it with the creatures and gods from Greek Mythology, the Egyptian Gods, werewolves, vampires, fairies , mermaids, and many other mythological creatures that were encountered.....and in our view, whereas some of them came about as a result of angelic having mixed offspring, others may have been developed due to man getting involved in the dark arts/sciences and learning how to manipulate himself so that he could gain abilities that other creatures had.

Its possible that man was advanced enough to learn/know how to use his DNA to mix with others and create certain things........and perhaps this knowledge was simply lost after the Fall. Perhaps it was by God's design that man lost that knowledge.

On Genesis 6, its more than possible that man was doing genetic experimentation even then...and corrupt man may have discovered how to manipulate creation to create other hybrid creatures from which all folklore comes from today. For some examples of experimentation that could occur:

Man + Goat = Satyr
Man + Horse = Centaur
Man + Bull = Minotaur
Bird + Horse = Pegasus
Bird + Lion = Griffin
Man + Fish = Mermaid

The list can go on...and as said earlier, its not as if early man just thought to sit down/think up some of these things. They had to have gotten inspiration from somewhere.

And on the ways that DIVINE beings violated their posts and did damage to our world with experimentations, I have to say that such things should not be considered beyond our realm of understanding. Steve Collins (who's a Messianic Christian) had some very interesting insights on the issue-

And with the mermaid issue I mentioned earlier, Years ago, I researched at what point the entire concept of "Dagon" came into being during the history of Israel. From what I understand, Dagon was a Canaanite god of grain adopted by the Philistines. As noted earlier, the Philistine god Dagon was represented with a half man, half fish figure, and was said to be the father of Baal. This deity was a personification of the generative and vivifying principle of nature, for which the fish with its innumerable multiplication was especially adapted, to set forth the idea of the giver of all earthly good.

Something interesting I discovered was seen in an excerpt from Dagon: The Philistine Fish God - Associates for Biblical Research. As said there:

Question: In the book of Judges, we read how the Israelites served “Baal and Ashtaroth”, pagan gods of the various nations (Judges 2:11-13), but Dagon, the god of the Philistines, is mentioned by name and often depicted as a “fish-god”. How is Dagon different than the other idols?

Answer: Dagon was originally a Semitic deity, adopted by the Philistines after they invaded Canaan, ca. 1177 BC. We have records of Dagon dating to the 3rd dynasty of Ur in the 25th Century BC. Dagon was very popular among the Amorites, among whom “Dagon” is a component of many personal names, and Assyrians.

Most scholars argue that he was originally a vegetation, grain and wheat, deity. The name is very similar to the Hebrew word for “grain”, dāgān. This would create an interesting irony in the Samson narratives, as Samson was forced to grind wheat for the Philistines (Judges 16). However, some descriptions seem to make Dagon a storm-god, possibly in connection with the need of rain for the wheat and grain harvest.

However, Dagon in iconography Dagon is often presented as fish-god. This depiction has survived the centuries and is quite controversial. The reason it has survived is the similarity of the name to the Hebrew term dâg, meaning “fish”. This connection was first popularized by Rashi, Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaki (AD 1040-1105), author of an extensive commentary on the Tanakh. He imagined, based on this connection to the Hebrew term dâg, that Dagon was in the shape of a fish.

David Kimhi (AD 1160-1235), Medieval Rabbi and Bible Commentator, expanded upon the interpretation of Rashi. In his comments on 1 Samuel 5, wherein the Philistines placed the Ark with Dagon, he interpreted the statement “only the flat part was left to him” (1 Samuel 5:4) as meaning “only the form of a fish was left”. He reasoned that since the text mentions “hands”, Dagon was in the in the form of a fish from the waist down, hence the name, and in the form of a man from the waist up. One must note that the LXX mentions both hand and feet.

In 1928, H. Schmökel argued that Dagon was never a “fish-god”, half-man and half-fish. However, once his cult became important to the sea-faring and maritime peoples, such as the Phoenicians and Philistines, the false connection to dâg (fish) had a powerful impact on Dagon’s iconography. Some scholars still insist that this merman image, half-man and half-fish, is a secondary aspect to this god of the Philistines. The Philistines were a powerful part of the invasion of the “Sea Peoples” who swept the Eastern end of the Mediterranean basin ca. 1200 BC. Therefore, a god with aquatic aspects could prove to be an important part of their pantheon.

Overall, Dagon is represented somewhat differently than other gods in Judges. This is because he is linked to the Philistines, who seemed to have adopted Dagon very early, one of the most hated enemies of YHWH and Israel. The Philistines represented a more menacing type of threat than the local Canaanites who had inhabited the Promised Land. With their political and military organization the Philistines were a viable threat to wipe out Israel and thwart complete possession of the land. Their importance is fully seen in that, according to 2 Samuel 5, their defeat was a key to the establishment of Davidic power.

As it concerns the subject of mythological creatures like "mermaids", others may disagree...but IMHO, it'd seem that it may be possible for such creatures of man/fish mixtures to have survived/been around even into the time of the Conquests of Cannan since the apperance of Dagon was around that era ( Judges 16:22-24, etc ) and afterward ( 1 Samuel 5:1-3, 1 Samuel 5 , 1 Chronicles 10:9-11 / 1 Chronicles 10, etc )----and perhaps it was the case that such creatures existed/gave room for others making idols out of them.

That said, I've seen many give an explanation for what was seen historically with mermaids. The seal dynamic is something that has been discussed alongside saying that manatees and sea cows were mistaken for mermaids....though the depictions of mermaids in mythology were far from simple observing from a distance. With the Seal dynamic, mermaids were also known as selkies, animals that can transform themselves from seals to humans..

For the sake of technicality, a mermaid (from the Middle English mere in the obsolete sense 'sea' + maid(en) is a legendary aquatic creature with the head and torso of human female and the tail of a fish. The male version of a mermaid is called a merman; the gender-neutral collective noun is merfolk. Various cultures throughout the world have similar figures.

In some ancient cultures Mermaids were regarded as semi-divine aspects of the Goddess, connected to the sea from which life arises and honoured in seaside temples. The earliest Mermaid story comes from Assyria around 1000 BCE. Atargatis, an Assyrian priestess, jumpred into the sea to wash away the shame of an unwanted pregnancy and emerged as a fishtailed goddess. In the 2nd century BCE, the Greek historian Lucian reported that the statue of the Great Goddess at the temple of Hieropolis (which is now modern Turkey) had a fishtail instead of legs. In Greece, Aphrodite, the goddess of love, as born from the sea foam and rode to land on a half-scallop shell.

In the 1st century CE, Pliny wrote convincingly of the existence of Mermaids, but said that their bodies were 'rough and scaled all over'. But by the 5th century CE, the bestiary Physiologus described Mermaids in terms that accord fully with their contemporary image. Mermaids are 'wonderfully shaped as a maid from the navel up and fish from the navel down'.

So who knows what was playing out fully

awitch · Oct 25, 2017

Gxg (G²) said:
Did you enjoy the Roswell Show?

I probably would have liked it more in the 90s. I think the modern day has spoiled the fun of conspiracy theories and secret organizations.

Also, I do remember the Real Ghostbusters show - but I am not certain as to your thoughts on why you felt it took the win

The early seasons of the show had excellent stories. While they primarily dealt with ghosts, they did occasionally encounter demons and various mythological creatures, but they were always treated as paranormal.

Zoology & Mythological Creatures: Do You Feel Supernatural Life in Religions are real?

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