Does God want us to "sin less" in this life or to "stop sinning?"

Noxot

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i dunno about that...Paul called himself the "chief of sinners", and he sure didn't claim any righteousness of his own for saying that or otherwise. He was clarifying that we are not "perfect" in and of ourselves, and that in this journey, in our weakness, there will be sin of thought, word, and deed, and therefore we go to our heavenly Father and confess them.

He was just sayin' how it is. We are not perfect. And we sin.

It's nothin' to brag about.

It is what it is.

It is written that if we claim that we do not sin, we are liars.

and do the hypocrites also do as paul did? is the only heart that utters such a thing the heart of someone with Godlike faith? or can we falsely pray to God and be unrighteous though outwardly we appear as religious?

I just wanted to mention that in almost anything sin can twist and warp it which means that we can all falsely accuse others who appear to us to do evil when in fact only God knows their faith.
 
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brinny

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I have no idea what you are doing here, Brin...yes, improve, and yes, get better, I've done it. Overcome eventually. We start as a baby Christian on milk and get to where we can handle meat. We constantly learn what is sin...sin that at one time, we weren't aware of. Improve.
Were you were you are today when you first got started or did you improve to this point?

This is all so simple it worries me for you that you are even arguing it. Is there something else going on?



It's about everybody, or at least God seems to think so, evidenced by the fact we are here in the first place, and he's gone through so much trouble to make a way/keep us around even in our state. :)

It's about "God".

Not "you" or "me".

There is no "improve" for any of us. If it was, what would we need God for?

Or His grace?

By the way, what was Satan's "Achilles Heel"?
 
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ConvictionofGod

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Then how do you interpret verses like 2 Corinthians 7:1, 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24?

i dont pretend to have the answers to big questions, all i know is as a Child of God, we are to ask for forgiveness each time we sin, no matter how much or less we think we sin.
 
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mozo41

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the seed of God in you.

1Cor 3:9-17 (YLT)
for of God we are fellow-workmen; God's tillage, God's building ye are. According to the grace of God that was given to me, as a wise master-builder, a foundation I have laid, and another doth build on it , for other foundation no one is able to lay except that which is laid, which is Jesus the Christ; and if any one doth build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- of each the work shall become manifest, for the day shall declare it , because in fire it is revealed, and the work of each, what kind it is, the fire shall prove; if of any one the work doth remain that he built on it , a wage he shall receive; if of any the work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; and himself shall be saved, but so as through fire. have ye not known that ye are a sanctuary of God, and the Spirit of God doth dwell in you? if any one the sanctuary of God doth waste, him shall God waste; for the sanctuary of God is holy, the which ye are.




faith to God and not of self

G5287 ὑπόστασις hupostasis (hoop-os'-tas-is) n.
1. a setting under (support)
2. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively
)


Heb 10:38-11:6 (YLT)
and `the righteous by faith shall live,' and `if he may draw back, My soul hath no pleasure in him,' and we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of those believing to a preserving of soul. And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction, for in this were the elders testified of; by faith we understand the ages to have been prepared by a saying of God, in regard to the things seen not having come out of things appearing; by faith a better sacrifice did Abel offer to God than Cain, through which he was testified to be righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and through it, he being dead, doth yet speak. By faith Enoch was translated--not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to--that he had pleased God well, and apart from faith it is impossible to please well, for it behoveth him who is coming to God to believe that He is, and to those seeking Him He becometh a rewarder.






yes because moses broke the tablets the first time.

Exod 32:19-20 (YLT)
And it cometh to pass, when he hath drawn near unto the camp, that he seeth the calf, and the dancing, and the anger of Moses burneth, and he casteth out of his hands the tables, and breaketh them under the mount; and he taketh the calf which they have made, and burneth it with fire, and grindeth until it is small, and scattereth on the face of the waters, and causeth the sons of Israel to drink.

i was referring to GODS law ... the ten commandments ( being mans perception of GODS law ) where written into stone by finger ... as you know GOD puts His law in our hearts and inscribes it into our mind ...
 
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brinny

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and do the hypocrites also do as paul did? is the only heart that utters such a thing the heart of someone with Godlike faith? or can we false pray to God and be unrighteous though outwardly we appear as religious?

I just wanted to mention that in almost anything sin can twist and warp it which means that we can all falsely accuse others who appear to us to do evil when in fact only God knows their faith.

Yes.

Sin is very deceptive.

Isn't it?

We are admonished to confess our sins, to El Elyon, God Most High, the living God, the God of the living, are we not?
 
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Noxot

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Yes.

Sin is very deceptive.

Isn't it?

We are admonished to confess our sins, to El Elyon, God Most High, the living God, the God of the living, are we not?

if you have sin to confess but if you don't then you would be lying to God if you confessed and then you would have to confess and repent.
 
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i can share truths, but it is GOD who reveals them to you ...

Truth is God’s Word. Do you agree? If so, then start sharing. If not, then it pointless to even to talk about this any further.
 
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brinny

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OK, i'm gonna leave it alone. I fear that you may have not gotten my point, or perhaps i did not express it as well as i would have liked.

No harm done.

Peace.
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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But logic dictates that if even Jesus was talking about this one sin of prostitution that she should stop and do no more, then it is also possible she could do so with other sins, too. Even unbelievers can overcome certain sins (like the sin of alcoholism or anger).

Christians are making excuses for sin when the Bible says they can overcome their sin.
'I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.” '

Which has to do with the question God asked Adam in the garden (after he had eaten the feast prepared by the woman - a picture of our soul journey) and where we are perceiving from..."Where art thou?" ...and the deep slumber and change of eyesight as it relates to us - "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."
 
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brinny

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if you have sin to confess but if you don't then you would be lying to God if you confessed and then you would have to confess and repent.

Isn't that what i've been saying?

i posted the verse about if we say we have no sin, then we are liars, remember?

^_^
 
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toLiJC

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Does God want us to "sin less" or to "stop sinning?"

Please use Scripture to justify your answer;
Thank you and may God's love shine upon you.
Also, how is sinning less any different than sinning a lot?

Are we to assume that it is okay to murder as long as one does it less?
Are we to assume that it is okay to abuse children as long as one does it less?
Are we to assume it is okay to drink and drive as long as one does it less?
Are we to assume it is okay to steal as one as one does it less?

Paul says, "sin shall not have dominion over you." (Romans 6:14).
How can these words be true if sin is ruling the Christian life?

very good questions

first of all, we have to know exactly what sin is; sin is causation/infliction of evil/harm to/on the neighbor/townsman/cohabitant, IOW, causation/infliction of spiritual, mental or physical deterioration in somebody's condition/health, such as distress, pain, (unfavorable) deviation, disorder, disease, disability, etc.

Romans 13:8-10 (NHEB) "Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not give false testimony," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You are to love your neighbor as yourself." Love does not harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law."

so the Holy Apostle says that the minimum requirement of each of the Holy Commandments is to not cause evil/harm to our neighbor/townsman/cohabitant (whoever he or she may be), and that all those commandments are given to us in order to understand that we humans should not cause evil/harm to anybody, neither spiritually, nor physically, nor in any way a person could

however, there are certain peculiarities that we should know, and especially the fact that spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness is the cause and even the source of all other iniquities and evils, IOW, there would be no physical, economic and intellectual/mental iniquity(-ies) if there was no spiritual, and the physical, economic and intellectual/mental iniquities cannot be existing/working if there is no spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness in the world, which means they will cease to be existing/working as soon as all the spiritual/religious iniquity is destroyed (i.e. they will kind of by themselves pass along with the destruction of all spiritual/religious unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness)

Daniel 7:1-28 "In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters. Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea(note: remember that the beast comes from the "sea" - Revelation 13:1), diverse one from another. The first was like a lion(i.e. it was dignified), and had eagle's wings(i.e. and had an impulse): I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it(i.e. i beheld until it started to realize its impulse - note: this is the physical activity and iniquity). And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear(i.e. it was affluent/consumptive), and it raised up itself on one side(i.e. and acquisitive/voracious), and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh(note: this is the economic(al) activity and iniquity). After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard(i.e. it was mental), which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads(i.e. which acted and thought with vigor); and dominion was given to it(note: this is the intellectual/mental activity and iniquity). After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast(i.e. the spiritual/religious iniquity), dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth(i.e. great spiritual mastery): it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it(i.e. it turned the things upside down and broke up them into smaller units in favor of its system, and seized the whole world): and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it(i.e. and it turned out that it has been the cause/root and the source/core of all other iniquities and evils since the very beginning of the reign of evil); and it had ten horns(i.e. it had at least ten chakras i.e. unclean/devilish spirits). I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn(i.e. the sixth chakra stood out among the other chakras), before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots(i.e. the first three chakras which primarily represent the sex(uality), and the other physical sensory activities, usually considered to be/marked for being the original sin in/by the system of (the) spiritual iniquity): and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man(or: the two remaining chakras - eleventh and twelfth, which are the highest ones appearing as a result of the deeper and more systematic occult/idolatrous process (of self-realization/self-knowledge)), and a mouth speaking great things(i.e. and a mind which prophesies satanic/unrighteous/guileful things). I beheld till the thrones were cast down(i.e. the reign of the "fourth beast" continued until the moment when the full number of the true Saints came in), and the Ancient of days did sit(i.e. and then the true God, the Heavenly Father, began to wake completely and permanently up from the state of incomplete wakefulness into which He had fallen since the seventh day), whose garment was white as snow(i.e. whose glory was perfectly good), and the hair of his head like the pure wool(i.e. and whose wisdom was full of perfect love for humans): his throne was like the fiery flame(i.e. His Reign and Spirit was completely righteous), and his wheels as burning fire(i.e. and Its four "winds" (were) all-saving). A fiery stream(i.e. a Good Word/Movement) issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words(i.e. of the false prophecies) which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts(i.e. as for the physical, the economic and the mental/intellectual activities), they had their dominion taken away(i.e. thus their satanic power had been removed, i.e. together with the removal of spiritual lawlessness/wickedness, the fourth "beast"): yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time(i.e. for a certain time)..... I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. These great beasts(i.e. those great iniquities), which are four, are four kings(i.e. are also four natural activities), which shall arise out of the earth(i.e. the physical, the economic, the mental/intellectual and the spiritual/religious one, respectively). But the saints of the most High(i.e. the true Saints) shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast(i.e. about the spiritual/religious iniquity), which was diverse from all the others(i.e. which turned out to be the cause/root/source/core of all other iniquities and evils), exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron(i.e. whose word(s) was(were) like that(those) of God), and his nails of brass(i.e. and its power(s) of grace, but not of the true true God); which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet(i.e. with its activity); And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes(or: which leads to the highest two chakras), and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints(i.e. with the true Saints), and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came(i.e. began to wake completely and permanently up, including because of their faithfulness and prayer), and judgment was given to the saints of the most High(i.e. to the true Saints); and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces(i.e. and shall defile it and try to possess it by means of up to 33.3% of the Heavenly grace/bliss). And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings(i.e. the chakras are devilish spirits) that shall arise: and another shall rise after them(i.e. among them, i.e. the main process of spiritual lawlessness/wickedness - e.g. the process of yoga); and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart."

of course God doesn't want us to sin i.e. to cause evil/harm to our neighbor/townsman/cohabitant in any way, however, first of all, He doesn't want us to commit spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness

and there is definitely a significant difference between causing a great evil/harm and sinning negligibly i.e. without causing any great evil/harm to anybody, for example, it would be less bad and better if the rapist didn't rape any woman, even though he masturbated - btw, what is detrimental to the neighbor/townsman/cohabitant in one's masturbation, or, why must one's masturbation necessarily be detrimental to the neighbor/townsman/cohabitant especially if a person cannot abstain from it in case he or she is demon-possessed by a spirit of masturbation and cannot overcome the demon?! - Jesus and His true disciples (presented in the Bible) didn't dare to condemn such people precisely because of these questions, which is why St Paul advised followers/worshipers to have sex life rather than to commit spiritual or any other iniquity

1 Corinthians 7:1-7 "Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman(i.e. for a man not to disturb/harass/rape a woman and not to have another man's wife). But because of immoralities(i.e. for this reason what is better in this regard for), each man is to have his own wife, and (for) each woman is to have her own husband. The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. But this I say by way of concession, not of command. Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that."

Blessings
 
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Romans chapter 4
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

Yes, I believe it is through righteousness of faith in Jesus that we come to God and it is not by circumcision (See Romans 3:1).

But faith leads one to being persuaded whereby they then also perform.

“And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.” (Romans 4:21).
 
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@Jason0047 could you tell us, like in a paragraph, the key to not sinning at all...? Is what we atypically think sin is, is not sinning really even the point?

Is sin more or less important than some other things?, are some sins greater or less than another?, can different people be predisposed to having struggles of different sins more or less than another?, and does that, or the individual circumstances, need to be considered?

Is one thing a sin, for one person, and not for another...?

Most of us do wrong that we know we shouldn't, and the rest of us are liars, and that is the problem, and we see no way out of it...

It is also my opinion that when one even begins to think themselves sinless, the struggle into a whole other category of sin(s), that most are blind too... And it is that kind that Jesus/God really hates...

God Bless!

I will rely to your post properly when I have more time.

May the Peace of the Lord be unto you.
 
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Noxot

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i was referring to GODS law ... the ten commandments ( being mans perception of GODS law ) where written into stone by finger ... as you know GOD puts His law in our hearts and inscribes it into our mind ...

I thought it was written into the tablet of stone by Gods finger and so it would be good?

and if God put his law in our hearts and we turn away we shall not live and so why trust in the heart which is deceitful above all things?

H842 אֲשֵׁרָה אֲשֵׁירָה 'asherah (ash-ay-raw') (or masheyrah {ash-ay-raw'}) n/p.
1. happy
2. Asherah (or Astarte) a Phoenician goddess
3. also an image of the same
[from H833]
KJV: grove.


Jer 17:1-14 (ASV)
The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the tablet of their heart, and upon the horns of your altars; whilst their children remember their altars and their Asherim by the green trees upon the high hills. O my mountain in the field, I will give thy substance and all thy treasures for a spoil, and thy high places, because of sin, throughout all thy borders. And thou, even of thyself, shalt discontinue from thy heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger which shall burn for ever. Thus saith Jehovah: Cursed is the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from Jehovah. For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh, but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, a salt land and not inhabited. Blessed is the man that trusteth in Jehovah, and whose trust Jehovah is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, that spreadeth out its roots by the river, and shall not fear when heat cometh, but its leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit. The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it? I, Jehovah, search the mind, I try the heart, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings. As the partridge that sitteth on eggs which she hath not laid, so is he that getteth riches, and not by right; in the midst of his days they shall leave him, and at his end he shall be a fool. A glorious throne, set on high from the beginning, is the place of our sanctuary. O Jehovah, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be put to shame. They that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken Jehovah, the fountain of living waters. Heal me, O Jehovah, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.
 
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Neogaia777

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Yes, I believe it is through righteousness of faith in Jesus that we come to God and it is not by circumcision (See Romans 3:1).

But faith leads one to being persuaded whereby they then also perform.

“And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.” (Romans 4:21).
Jew in his heart, circumcision of the heart, heart of stone to flesh...

A truly converted person...?
 
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mozo41

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I thought it was written into the tablet of stone by Gods finger and so it would be good?

and if God put his law in our hearts and we turn away we shall not live and so why trust in the heart which is deceitful above all things?

H842 אֲשֵׁרָה אֲשֵׁירָה 'asherah (ash-ay-raw') (or masheyrah {ash-ay-raw'}) n/p.
1. happy
2. Asherah (or Astarte) a Phoenician goddess
3. also an image of the same
[from H833]
KJV: grove.


Jer 17:1-14 (ASV)
The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the tablet of their heart, and upon the horns of your altars; whilst their children remember their altars and their Asherim by the green trees upon the high hills. O my mountain in the field, I will give thy substance and all thy treasures for a spoil, and thy high places, because of sin, throughout all thy borders. And thou, even of thyself, shalt discontinue from thy heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger which shall burn for ever. Thus saith Jehovah: Cursed is the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from Jehovah. For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh, but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, a salt land and not inhabited. Blessed is the man that trusteth in Jehovah, and whose trust Jehovah is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, that spreadeth out its roots by the river, and shall not fear when heat cometh, but its leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit. The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it? I, Jehovah, search the mind, I try the heart, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings. As the partridge that sitteth on eggs which she hath not laid, so is he that getteth riches, and not by right; in the midst of his days they shall leave him, and at his end he shall be a fool. A glorious throne, set on high from the beginning, is the place of our sanctuary. O Jehovah, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be put to shame. They that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken Jehovah, the fountain of living waters. Heal me, O Jehovah, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise.


GOD has fingers :p
 
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Noxot

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Isn't that what i've been saying?

i posted the verse about if we say we have no sin, then we are liars, remember?

^_^

but it depends on where we are at or what condition of being we are in because there is a process of growth of the light of God in us which dispels the darkness.

1 John 2:12-14 (YLT)
I write to you, little children, because the sins have been forgiven you through his name; I write to you, fathers, because ye have known him who is from the beginning; I write to you, young men, because ye have overcome the evil. I write to you, little youths, because ye have known the Father: I did write to you, fathers, because ye have known him who is from the beginning; I did write to you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God in you doth remain, and ye have overcome the evil.
 
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Neogaia777

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but it depends on where we are at or what condition of being we are in because there is a process of growth of the light of God in us which dispels the darkness.

1John 2:12-14 (YLT)
I write to you, little children, because the sins have been forgiven you through his name; I write to you, fathers, because ye have known him who is from the beginning; I write to you, young men, because ye have overcome the evil. I write to you, little youths, because ye have known the Father: I did write to you, fathers, because ye have known him who is from the beginning; I did write to you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God in you doth remain, and ye have overcome the evil.
Yeah, and most often gradually...

And how can we be judges of that...?
 
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