What happened to neanderthal man?

joshua 1 9 · Sep 22, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
Cats and primates aren't the same thing.

I think I am getting primates and mammals mixed up. Let me see if I have my time line right. Pangaea began to break up around 200 million years ago. Dinosaurs became extinct around 65 million years ago. The oldest mammal goes back 160 million years and the oldest primate goes back 55 million years.

Science sees the break up of Pangaea as a product of plate technotics. Creationists believe there is a reason why this happened and we are still feeling the effects of this today. When I was growing up people thought the earth was very stable. Today with all the earthquakes and storms people do not see the earth as being stable at all.

The point is that every extinction is followed by a population explosion that is refereed to as a radiation. Here we are looking at one species Neanderthals going extinct and our species Homo Sepian thriving and increasing to the point where they filled the earth. As the Genesis 1:28 says: "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

In order for one to increase the other species seems to have to decrease in order to maintain a balanced biodiverse eco system.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 22, 2017

Halbhh said:
As before, I wonder (another hypothesis) if we could have done to Neanderthals instead something much like what happened to Native Americans from the European immigrants/invaders/settlers. That's violence and land theft, but mostly death via imported disease.

The evidence we have shows that modern man hunted them down the way they would hunt down an animal. I have looked into quite a few of the ancient skeletons that they have found and violence is always the cause of death. Just like Adam's son Cain in the Bible was worried that: "I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

Often the skeleton is being studied as a murder until they find out the skeleton is tens of thousands of years old. In one case an Indian tribe wanted to claim the remains as their ancient relative. It turned out they were not related. In the case of Cheddar man it turns out he was related to someone still living in the area. Cheddar man died a violent death and there was a suggestion of Cannibalism.

Human Stabbed a Neanderthal, Evidence Suggests

Cheddar Man - Wikipedia

joshua 1 9 · Sep 23, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
Usually, mass killing each other, doesn't result in babies.....

Extinctions are usually followed by population explosions. Wars are often fought over the land and who gets to use the produce from the land to feed their offspring. In China for example many people are descended from either Genghis Khan or the Emperor of the Forbidden City in the Eternal City of Beijing - because they had food to feed their offspring. According to Jared Diamond "Guns, Germs, and Steel" determines the fate of societies.

In the Bible Moses was adopted by a daughter of the Pharrow. So he was entitled to the best food and the best education that Egypt had to offer. Abraham also had the best education and the best food that the city of Ur had to offer.

Deuteronomy 7:13

"He will love you and bless you and multiply you; He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your new wine and your oil, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock, in the land which He swore to your forefathers to give you.

DogmaHunter · Sep 25, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
I think I am getting primates and mammals mixed up.

You can't generalise things concerning mammals as being equally applicable to primates specifically, either.

All primates are mammals, but not all mammals are primates. In fact, most aren't.

Science sees the break up of Pangaea as a product of plate technotics. Creationists believe there is a reason why this happened and we are still feeling the effects of this today.

Actually, most creationists don't accept that this break up ever happened, as they tend to believe that god created everything pretty much as it is today.
Most don't even believe the earth is that old.

As the Genesis 1:28 says: "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

Pretty much what I would expect from a species like Homo Sapiens with a tendency of thinking they are the center of reality.

In order for one to increase the other species seems to have to decrease in order to maintain a balanced biodiverse eco system.

Correlation does not imply causation.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 25, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
Actually, most creationists don't accept that this break up ever happened

"Most" is a dangerous word to use because we are told that "most" people are going to perish. "Few" enter the gate that leads to life. According to a recent Pew Research Center report, 73 percent of American adults younger than 30 expressed some sort of belief in evolution, a jump from 61 percent in 2009. Most Creationists lean toward Theistic Evolutionists as defined by people like Francis Collins. In fact even the most die hard Creationist like Dr Dino still accepts micro evolution.

Atheists want to hijack evolutionary theory to try to promote their agenda and this is getting more and more difficult for them to do.

PsychoSarah · Sep 25, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
In order for one to increase the other species seems to have to decrease in order to maintain a balanced biodiverse eco system.

Only because they shared the same niche. When two different organisms within the same niche are in the same environment, there are only 2 possible outcomes:
1. One or both organisms adapt and change their niche so as to not compete.
or
2. One or both organisms go extinct from prolonged competition.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Sep 25, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
"Most" is a dangerous word to use because we are told that "most" people are going to perish. "Few" enter the gate that leads to life. According to a recent Pew Research Center report, 73 percent of American adults younger than 30 expressed some sort of belief in evolution, a jump from 61 percent in 2009. Most Creationists lean toward Theistic Evolutionists as defined by people like Francis Collins. In fact even the most die hard Creationist like Dr Dino still accepts micro evolution.

Atheists want to hijack evolutionary theory to try to promote their agenda and this is getting more and more difficult for them to do.

Yeah, that has nothing to do with what DogmaHunter said.

DogmaHunter · Sep 26, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
"Most" is a dangerous word to use because we are told that "most" people are going to perish.

I don't care what your religion has to say, just like you don't care what all other religions have to say.

"Few" enter the gate that leads to life. According to a recent Pew Research Center report, 73 percent of American adults younger than 30 expressed some sort of belief in evolution, a jump from 61 percent in 2009. Most Creationists lean toward Theistic Evolutionists as defined by people like Francis Collins.

Collins wouldn't identify his views with "creationism".

In fact even the most die hard Creationist like Dr Dino still accepts micro evolution.

I was talking about the age of the earth, pangea and the very personal and strange views you happen to have on this.

Atheists want to hijack evolutionary theory to try to promote their agenda and this is getting more and more difficult for them to do.

Says the guy who is (trying to) hijack all of science to force-fit his strange religious views into.

And, once more and unsurprisingly: great job at ignoring the actual points raised in the post you are replying to.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 26, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
I don't care what your religion has to say, just like you don't care what all other religions have to say.

Don't put words in my mouth. I have friends, actually our next door neighbor. They are refuge from Nepal where the difference between Buddhist and Hindu may cause you to end up in a refugee camp because of ethnic cleansing. As Christians we care and the American government gave them visa's and allowed them to immigrate to our country and my neighborhood. They can teach me what they believe and I can teach them what I believe and hopefully we will both be better off for it. My dad raised me to be a stoic secular humanist. I can not say that is a worthless belief but I can say that the Christian belief system is the best and much better then the humanism I was raised with.

I have no doubt that you do not care, which makes me wonder why your here having this conversation? Just what are you doing or hoping to accomplish? Or are you just wasting time? You claim to be some sort of a dogma hunter, perhaps you should begin by hunting in your own back yard.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 26, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
I was talking about the age of the earth, pangea and the very personal and strange views you happen to have on this.

Again, the person that has what you call "strange views" is Kat Kerr. She bases this on her visit to a Creation Lab in Heaven. You may think she is crazy but she would say you are the one in need of prayer, not her.

AV1611VET · Sep 26, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
Again, the person that has what you call "strange views" is Kat Kerr.

QV please:

Katharine Kerr now dedicates herself exclusively to fiction.

SOURCE

DogmaHunter · Sep 26, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
Don't put words in my mouth. I have friends, actually our next door neighbor. They are refuge from Nepal where the difference between Buddhist and Hindu may cause you to end up in a refugee camp because of ethnic cleansing. As Christians we care and the American government gave them visa's and allowed them to immigrate to our country and my neighborhood. They can teach me what they believe and I can teach them what I believe and hopefully we will both be better off for it. My dad raised me to be a stoic secular humanist. I can not say that is a worthless belief but I can say that the Christian belief system is the best and much better then the humanism I was raised with.

None of this ties into the subject of the conversation.

I have no doubt that you do not care, which makes me wonder why your here having this conversation?

This conversation is not about what the bible has to say about who goes to your version of "paradise". It's about neanderthals and it derailed in this sub-topic into pangea and how most creationists (who identify as such) do not even believe that that ever existed.

And now you are derailing it even further.

Just what are you doing or hoping to accomplish?

I'm hoping to get back to topic, but it seems to be an exercise in futility.

Or are you just wasting time? You claim to be some sort of a dogma hunter, perhaps you should begin by hunting in your own back yard.

I did not express any dogma's here nore am I hunting any in this particular subject.
I suggest you go back 3 posts in our conversation and actually reply to the points being raised, instead of continueing with this nonsense.

DogmaHunter · Sep 26, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
Again, the person that has what you call "strange views" is Kat Kerr. She bases this on her visit to a Creation Lab in Heaven.

Ow boy...........................................

You may think she is crazy

Uhu....... Or just lying for money, off course.

but she would say you are the one in need of prayer, not her.

I don't think she is in need of prayer as I have no reason to think that praying accomplishes anything.

She might be in need of some professional assistance, though.

That's hilarious.

Also, half the comments are christians saying that this woman is Satanic. One of them even says that she should be put to death. Just thought I'ld mention it.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 26, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
Also, half the comments are christians saying that this woman is Satanic.

I talked to her myself. There is a recording of our conversation somewhere although I called in and it was live at the time. We talked about what happened after Jesus died. In the three days between His death and His resurrection. I do not believe that she contradicts the Bible in any way. I do not see any harm in what she says even if it were fiction or allegory. She goes on and on and repeats herself a lot but she is entertaining and interesting.

DogmaHunter · Sep 26, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
I talked to her myself.

So?

There is a recording of our conversation somewhere although I called in and it was live at the time. We talked about what happened after Jesus died. In the three days between His death and His resurrection. I do not believe that she contradicts the Bible in any way. I do not see any harm in what she says even if it were fiction or allegory. She goes on and on and repeats herself a lot but she is entertaining and interesting.

I couldn't care the slightest. Please try to stick to the topic instead of going on these utterly irrelevant derailments.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 26, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
So?

So I was able to verify that her teaching either lined up with the Bible - Word of God. Or at least there was no contradiction in what she is saying or teachings. She offers a unique perspective that no one else offers. If you remember we were talking about Pangaea and Plate Technotics.

We need to retain some degree of continuity between science and what our young students are learning in their Sunday school class. Skeptics, scoffers and infidels like to stir up a lot of trouble and we can tell our young students to ignore the trouble makers. There is no conflict between science and religion. We need both just like we need our left and our right hand. True Religion and True Science are in perfect agreement and we should not allow anyone to tell us otherwise.

I have read and studied Gerald Schroeder Phd, Francis Collins & Kat Kerr. I recommend their books or YouTube videos. I am aware that our young people have very little time even to do the reading they are required to do. Esp if they want to do good enough to get a scholarship and help with their college education. We have them covered and they do not need to get involved in the nonsense debates that waste time and valuable resources. My son and his friends are working hard at school for merit scholarships or working hard on their job to pay tuition and books. You do not have to be smart and you do not have to be pretty to get ahead in America, but you do have to work hard.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 26, 2017

DogmaHunter said:
I couldn't care the slightest.

Ok, I will take that into consideration that: you do not care. Thanks for letting me know.

Please try to stick to the topic

Do you have something to contribute to the topic? Then by all means give it your best shot.

Dave RP · Sep 28, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
There is a lot of information about neanderthal man. I would like to look at the artifacts: "an object made by a human being". Around 40,000 years ago we find sowing needles, fishing hooks and fishing nets. This is when man first came up out of Africa because they were now able to adapt to a colder ecosystem. One of the great mysteries of early human evolution is what happened to extinct hominin groups like the Neanderthals and Denisovans. These were human groups who lived in Europe and Asia for hundreds of thousands of years before Homo sapiens started streaming out of Africa and taking over the world.

This is a clear example of a species leaving one eco system and adapting to become a part of another biodiverse eco system.

Genesis 1:28 "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

I'm currently reading "Neanderthals Rediscovered" by Dimitri Papgianni and Michael Morse, by the end of which I will have a better idea of recent theories. However in advance of finishing the book I'll bet it was a combination of factors, for example I read that Neanderthals tended to live in smaller family centred groups rather than in larger tribes and thus were more susceptible to the group getting into serious problems if a small number of senior members died. It also seems they were not so quick to adapt, their social structures it seems were quite fixed, hence changes in environment may have impacted them disproportionately.

Of course knowing the murderous nature of Homo Sapiens, it is quite possible that we have a hand in exterminating them, after all we have a track record of extermination around the world. The optimist in me hopes not.

Oh how I wish i had a time machine and could go back and film Neanderthals in their own environment, it would be fascinating.

Dave RP · Sep 28, 2017

joshua 1 9 said:
I think I am getting primates and mammals mixed up. Let me see if I have my time line right. Pangaea began to break up around 200 million years ago. Dinosaurs became extinct around 65 million years ago. The oldest mammal goes back 160 million years and the oldest primate goes back 55 million years.

Science sees the break up of Pangaea as a product of plate technotics. Creationists believe there is a reason why this happened and we are still feeling the effects of this today. When I was growing up people thought the earth was very stable. Today with all the earthquakes and storms people do not see the earth as being stable at all.

The point is that every extinction is followed by a population explosion that is refereed to as a radiation. Here we are looking at one species Neanderthals going extinct and our species Homo Sepian thriving and increasing to the point where they filled the earth. As the Genesis 1:28 says: "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

In order for one to increase the other species seems to have to decrease in order to maintain a balanced biodiverse eco system.

I wish god had said "multiply within reason and respect the planet and other creatures on it". Not that it would have made a difference, humankind mostly ignores the instructions of the various gods.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 28, 2017

Dave RP said:
I wish god had said "multiply within reason and respect the planet and other creatures on it". Not that it would have made a difference, humankind mostly ignores the instructions of the various gods.

If the conditions are right plants and animals multiply very rapidly. They say that a female cat can produce 370,092 cats in 7 years.

What happened to neanderthal man?

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