What happened to neanderthal man?

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I get that from watching nature programs on TV. Also from observing the stray cats and how they form a pecking order to where the strongest cats get the best food and the weak cats get the left over food that the others do not want. The weak get weaker and the strong get stronger.

Stray cats aren't hominids though.

 

[Halbhh]

I wan't saying it wasn't friendly. I'm just saying that a paragraph long description of how you're going to look for evidence is a bit... boring.

lol. :=) I can go on. Seriously, hope you have an enjoyable day or some good new readings.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

lol. :=) I can go on. Seriously, hope you have an enjoyable day or some good new readings.

And the same to you.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Stray cats aren't hominids though.

Yes, that is the point or the issue. Just how human was neanderthal compared to how much were they an animal showing animal behavior. I always go back to the Prairie Vole and ask what does this rodent tell us about humans mating for life. Is this really based on a hormone that our brain produces and we share this in common with rodents? What makes us human? What makes the neanderthal more human then a pack animal?

What Can Rodents Tell Us About Why Humans Love? | Science | Smithsonian

Something happened around 6,000 years ago in the Garden of Eden. This is when made became civilized and he transitioned from being a hunter gather to a food producer / herdsman.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yes, that is the point or the issue. Just how human was neanderthal compared to how much were they an animal showing animal behavior. I always go back to the Prairie Vole and ask what does this rodent tell us about humans mating for life. Is this really based on a hormone that our brain produces and we share this in common with rodents? What makes us human? What makes the neanderthal more human then a pack animal?

What Can Rodents Tell Us About Why Humans Love? | Science | Smithsonian

Something happened around 6,000 years ago in the Garden of Eden. This is when made became civilized and he transitioned from being a hunter gather to a food producer / herdsman.

Not really, since you're just spouting gibberish as always.
And no, humans had farming as far back as 23,000 years ago.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Not really, since you're just spouting gibberish as always.

Then why don't you ignore my "gibberish" If you do not understand what I am saying? Why waste your time on "gibberish"?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Then why don't you ignore my "gibberish" If you do not understand what I am saying? Why waste your time on "gibberish"?

Because if someone is going to compare cat behaviour to human behaviour and think they have a legitimate argument, I'm going to call them out on it.
And why did you ignore me link?

 

[joshua 1 9]

And why did you ignore me link?

I am not able to keep up with all the comments people are making.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I am not able to keep up with all the comments people are making.

Sure, sure.
So I'll do it again: your claim that humans went from hunter/gatherers to farmers 6,000 years ago is wrong.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Because if someone is going to compare cat behaviour to human behaviour and think they have a legitimate argument, I'm going to call them out on it.

That was a rebuttal not an argument.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

That was a rebuttal not an argument.

... *shrug* And?

 

[bhsmte]

That was a rebuttal not an argument.

Proper rebuttals destroy arguments, as is the case here.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Sure, sure.
So I'll do it again: your claim that humans went from hunter/gatherers to farmers 6,000 years ago is wrong.

I do not know how much you want to go into this, but evolution is a process that takes place over periods of time. There is a beginning and there is an end. God tells us what He is going to do and He also tells us what He has done. In Genesis we read: "And God said", followed later by: “And God saw that it was good". Millions of years could have taken place between when God began the work and when He finished His work. Even though God Himself is outside of time.

I am aware that they have found grinding stones and seeds that were stored over 20,000 years ago. Breasted came up with the cradles of civilization theory back in the 1940's so it more surprises me that people do not question and revise a theory based on the information available at that time. We used Breasted's text book back in high school in the 60's. Our teacher told us at the time if anyone had a better book on the subject to let him know. So this is good that we are coming up with additional information so we have a better understanding.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I do not know how much you want to go into this, but evolution is a process that takes place over periods of time. There is a beginning and there is an end. God tells us what He is going to do and He also tells us what He has done. In Genesis we read: "And God said", followed later by: “And God saw that it was good". Millions of years could have taken place between when God began the work and when He finished His work. Even though God Himself is outside of time.

I am aware that they have found grinding stones and seeds that were stored over 20,000 years ago. Breasted came up with the cradles of civilization theory back in the 1940's so it more surprises me that people do not question and revise a theory based on the information available at that time. We used Breasted's text book back in high school in the 60's. Our teacher told us at the time if anyone had a better book on the subject to let him know. So this is good that we are coming up with additional information so we have a better understanding.

What does the link that I posted that disproves your claim that farming started 6,000 years ago have to do with evolution?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Proper rebuttals destroy arguments, as is the case here.

I do not even remember what the point or rebuttal was and I do not have time to go looking for it. In this case they did not understand my rebuttal and they wanted me to clarify but I did not have time to do that. Because I was busy dealing with other issues. If a formal debate you do not have rebuttals for rebuttals. People make their argument and each individual can decide for themselves what they want to believe or endorse.

If you want to endorse the humanity of neanderthal then your going to have to produce the evidence to back up your position. I am aware that this is a huge debate. I was reading a book once and the author used the second half of the book to try to provide support for his beliefs about Neanderthals because there is so much discussion on the subject.

As a Creationist the main point is that God became a part of Creation. Trying to understand how the Creator can become a part of His creation can be a difficult to understand. This has to do with redemption and restoration and showing just how Creation is in a fallen condition and understanding the work God is wanting to do to fix the problem.

 

[bhsmte]

I do not even remember what the point or rebuttal was and I do not have time to go looking for it. In this case they did not understand my rebuttal and they wanted me to clarify but I did not have time to do that. Because I was busy dealing with other issues. If a formal debate you do not have rebuttals for rebuttals. People make their argument and each individual can decide for themselves what they want to believe or endorse.

If you want to endorse the humanity of neanderthal then your going to have to produce the evidence to back up your position. I am aware that this is a huge debate. I was reading a book once and the author used the second half of the book to try to provide support for his beliefs about Neanderthals because there is so much discussion on the subject.

As a Creationist the main point is that God became a part of Creation. Trying to understand how the Creator can become a part of His creation can be a difficult to understand. This has to do with redemption and restoration and showing just how Creation is in a fallen condition and understanding the work God is wanting to do to fix the problem.

LOL

 

[DogmaHunter]

I get that from watching nature programs on TV. Also from observing the stray cats and how they form a pecking order to where the strongest cats get the best food and the weak cats get the left over food that the others do not want. The weak get weaker and the strong get stronger.

Cats and primates aren't the same thing.

 

[DogmaHunter]

How does interbreeding fly in the face of war between genetic groups?

Usually, mass killing eachother, doesn't result in babies.....

After all, I imagine you've read about (or have you?) that when wars happen women get pregnant from the other sides soldiers, right?

But the women need to remain alive in order to give birth to those babies.

About the fact of diverse causes of death, I think each and all of us agree to that.

Then what are you arguing about?

The only discussion I'm in that I know of is discussion with people that think Sapiens did not routinely kill Neanderthals, and trying to understand why they would think that.

False. You are in a discussion where YOU ARE claiming that Sapiens DID routinely kill Neanderthals. And people are calling you out on that claim.

People aren't necessarily claiming the opposite.

I don't try to claim it's proven that Sapiens routinely killed Neanderthals like we long did to wolves in the U.S. for example, but it seems strongly likely we did a lot of violence to them because we are much the same species 45,000 years ago as we were 3,500 years ago, and we know that constant war for territory is only historically normal to us Sapiens.

Dude, you specifically attributed Neaderthal's extinction, to sapiens killing them.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I never said anything about slavery solely happens with settled agriculture. I said that it only happens when there's an abundance of resources to subsist the slaves and their masters on. If there's only enough resources to support one group, there's no need for them to take slaves.
And, again, prove me wrong. And I mean it. Native American slavery is not as blase and simple as you describe it.

Not to mention that native american society, is still relatively close to modern times as opposed to the ancient migrating tribes of homo sapiens into europe.

 

[Halbhh]

Usually, mass killing eachother, doesn't result in babies.....



But the women need to remain alive in order to give birth to those babies.



Then what are you arguing about?



False. You are in a discussion where YOU ARE claiming that Sapiens DID routinely kill Neanderthals. And people are calling you out on that claim.

People aren't necessarily claiming the opposite.



Dude, you specifically attributed Neaderthal's extinction, to sapiens killing them.

Still only as I said above starting in post #21, using the word "guess", etc.

Just still like that. I don't really blame you though for picking some other post that I wrote later, presuming people knew what I'd written before as context.

Also, just as I speculated, floated as yet another new hypothesis, I wonder if we killed massive numbers of Neanderthals, maybe even some astoundingly high amount like 15 to 50%? In other words, instead of only an typical significantly scary, but not overwhelming amount of killing like do even today (like in Africa) when we take territory, only 1% to 10%, etc., I wonder if something unusual and dramatic happened instead, with a massive intentional effort to wipe them out. Just another hypothesis. (I keep several at a time, typically. Only one at most could be correct, or none. That's how it works.)

No proof. It's a "hypothesis". That's an idea, floated, that needs data to verify it or shoot it down. Not whether people like it or not, or find it "ridiculous" as if an mere subjective opinion would matter even one little bit to it being correct or false.

As before (is this the 4th time now?), again, most Neanderthals we can expect will have died in all the typical, normal ways, especially by such as disease and starvation, etc., just as we several of us pointed out, and repetitively.

As before, I wonder (another hypothesis) if we could have done to Neanderthals instead something much like what happened to Native Americans from the European immigrants/invaders/settlers. That's violence and land theft, but mostly death via imported disease.

How much more do you want repeated? I don't need you to carefully restate 6 things in each post.

If I up and say "I think we slaughtered them", I'm usually imagining you read more further back, but I don't blame you for not doing so, because it's going to be effort.