Does Bible say the earth is flat?

sdowney717

Newbie
Apr 20, 2013
8,712
2,022
✟102,598.00
Faith
Christian
False.

I said the vast majority of your Scripture citations were poetry (Psalms, Job, Proverbs, etc.)

To which you responded by posting more poetry. More from Psalms, more from Job, more from Proverbs.

So, do you deny those passages are poetry? Do you deny that poetry by its very nature contains a great deal of non-literal language?


I never claimed they are "worthless".

I really have to wonder how much of your position relies on straw man fallacies and distorting and twisting and misrepresenting what people say. Because so far, that's all you've been doing.

Again, you just do not like the conclusions the scriptures point to, so you turn them into poetry that is worthless for understanding what is being taught about the creation. Which nullifies any meaning they might have for doctrine, reproof, training in righteousness, which is the point of the scriptures.
 
Upvote 0

-V-

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2016
1,229
511
USA
✟38,038.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Again, you just do not like the conclusions the scriptures point to, so you turn them into poetry that is worthless for understanding what is being taught about the creation.
I'm "turning" Palms, Proverbs, and Job into poetry??

If you're going to deny that those books are poetry, then it's clear you don't have the knowledge of Scripture to have an informed view on the matter.
 
Upvote 0

Jason_apostle

when you live by faith you really celebrate
Sep 6, 2017
39
17
37
columbia
Visit site
✟1,151.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Does Bible say the earth is flat?

Yes, it talks about the four corners of the earth. And the new heavenly Jerusalem is so large, i dunno how God could place it on a globe. the land mass of the earth is probably in a circle. science just loves trying to deceive people.
 
Upvote 0

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
80
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,295.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
science just loves trying to deceive people.

I am both a scientist (now retired) and a Christian (over 70 years) and I find your statement so false as to be both laughable and very saddening.
 
Upvote 0

-V-

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2016
1,229
511
USA
✟38,038.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Yes, it talks about the four corners of the earth.
The phrase "four corners of the earth" appears twice in the Bible. The first in Isaiah, in a section of poetry; and the second is in Revelation, in a vision. Poetry & visions - not exactly the most literal things.

The Weather Channel keeps mentioning "sunrise" and "sunset" every day. Are you claiming the Weather Channel is trying to promote geocentrism? Or maybe, just maybe, common everyday language has figures of speech that everyone knows are not supposed to be taken literally.

And the new heavenly Jerusalem is so large, i dunno how God could place it on a globe.
Argument from incredulity.
 
Upvote 0

ambc

Mark 12:30-31
Aug 18, 2017
113
65
Houston, TX
✟20,805.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
The Bible says the earth is flat in Isaiah 40:22, which describes the earth as a circle. The original Hebrew word for circle in this scripture is chuwg, which also means circuit, something that is two-dimensional by nature. It never means sphere.

But why does it matter if the Bible isn't scientific? Christianity teaches us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. Personally, I would take faith over science any day.
 
Upvote 0

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
80
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,295.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
No. And anyone who says it does, does not understand poetic language.

I understand poetic language perfectly well. Biblical cosmology is of a flat earth.

Modern or ancient, every culture operates within a certain cosmology or understanding of the universe. This cosmology sets the context of how a people understand their world and their place in it. With very few exceptions our modern day cosmology is shaped by the scientific discoveries of the past 500 years. Some of these discoveries have greatly upset religious understandings and it sometimes takes centuries to reconcile the differences. However, since we live in a culture that has been greatly shaped by the bible and Christian beliefs, it is worthwhile to ask about biblical cosmology.

The biblical understanding of the universe is much the same as that of the surrounding cultures in the ancient Middle East at the time when it was written. Unfortunately, nowhere does the bible attempt to present a comprehensive cosmology, so we are forced to rely upon individual passages and to attempt to understand them in the light of their culture and their history. To begin with, biblical cosmology can be characterized as a three-tiered universe. This strange phrase needs some explanation to make the concept clearer.

First, the surface of the earth is circular and flat except for geographical features like hills and valleys. This of course was the belief of the Sumerians. To these people it was theoretically possible to go high enough to see the entire earth, or to envision a tree tall enough that it could be seen from everywhere on the earth's surface, or even to build a tower to reach the sky. The sky was thought of as a solid bowl, called the firmament, that was upended over the circular earth to enclose a volume in the shape of a hemisphere. I should add that there are some bible verses that speak of the four corners of the earth. This was the view of the Babylonians. This would make the firmament look more like a tent than a bowl. The lights of the sky (sun, moon, planets and stars) were inside the firmament and were very much smaller than we presently understand. In fact they were very much smaller than the earth itself. The mechanism by which these celestial objects moved about is not really explained. The noncanonical Book of Enoch (mentioned in the bible as authoritive and part of the canon of Ethiopian Christians) speaks of gates in the east and west for the sun and the moon to enter and leave. Enoch also suggests that their movements are caused by winds.

What I have just described is the middle tier of the three. Above the firmament are waters. This region is described as heaven, the abode of God and the angels. There were also gates in the firmament to permit water to enter as rain. Below the earth are also waters. This region is described as sheol or hell. There were also gates in the earth to permit water to spring up from below. This three level universe is variously described as either hung on nothing or supported by pillars. Storehouses are also envisioned in heaven for the snow and hail.

How should a of Christian today react to this biblical cosmology? The vast majority of what might be described as 'mainline' Christians are actually quite comfortable with this seeming dichotomy. They recognize that the bible is the product of a relatively unsophisticated people with an entirely pre-scientific understanding of nature, who used poetic or metaphorical language to convey their spiritual understandings. On the other hand there is the minority point of view of those Christians who regard the bible to be inerrant and to be understood literally. This group has been forced into extreme apologetic efforts in order to reconcile the bible with modern scientific understandings.

Speaking personally, I find these apologetic attempts to be rather inventive and very strained. I believe that if the scripture writers and early target audience were to read these apologetics, they would find them extremely puzzling and entirely foreign. This is not to say that they were not intelligent people or not keen observers of nature but rather that that they lacked the intellectual basis to form scientific hypotheses and even the instrumentation to gather accurate data --- all that came about some 2,000 years later.

Isaiah 11:12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Psalm 104:5 "He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved."(NIV)

Psalm 93:1"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved." (NIV)

Psalm 96:10 "Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity." (NIV)

Ecclesiastes 1:5 "The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises." (NIV)

Isaiah 40:22 "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." (NIV)


Job 9:6 He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (NIV)


Job 26:11 The pillars of the heavens quake, aghast at his rebuke. (NIV)


Job 38:22 "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail," (NIV)

Amos 9:6 The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens and has founded His VAULTED DOME over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name. (NASB)

The biblical flat earth cosmology persisted into New Testament times. However by the mid second century Christianity had largely lost its Jewish roots and understandings and had become a gentile Greek speaking movement. Of course the Greeks knew that the earth was a sphere thanks to Eratosthenes who actually was able to calculate the circumference around 240 BC. This knowledge gradually percolated into Jewish and Christian thought especially after Ptolemy introduced his cosmology in the mid second century. The earth became the center of the universe with the moon and then the sun and then the planets, with complicated epicycles, and then the “fixed” stars all in orbit around it. This was the cosmology accepted by Christianity until the revolution of Copernicus, Kepler. Galileo and Newton. This was resisted by Christianity largely on the basis that the earth was not the center of God’s creation. In a relatively short time even this scientific insight was not only accepted but accepted to the extent that the biblical cosmology of a flat earth was rejected. The flat earth was not only rejected but ridiculous arguments were even invented to suggest that the bible was not even suggesting a flat earth at all. Such, all too often, is the way some Christians react to new understandings and insights.

Even having said all this, the belief in a flat earth persisted for a very long time, even in educated circles, as is evidenced in this comment by Ferdinand Magellan, the first person to circumnavigate the globe: “The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church.” It took time but the modern cosmology took root in society at large, so much so that some Christians even return to the bible and attempt to reinterpret it in such a way as to “prove” that it was speaking of a spherical earth orbiting the sun all along.
 
Upvote 0

PanDeVida

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2007
878
339
✟42,102.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
It mentions the circle of the Earth and in another place that your sins cast as far as the East is from the West. You can walk or travel East on Earth forever but you can only travel North so far before you're headed South again. That says globe to me ..

4X4, the Lord said that he will come from the East to the West. Matthew 24:27For as lightning cometh out of the east, and appeareth even into the west: so shall the coming of the Son of man be.

Note: Appeareth Even to the West, which can only be done on a flat earth.

So, on this day when the Lord appears in the East, those in the West will see Him at the same time, meaning the Earth is Flat and not a globe.

Or as the angel said:
Act 1: 10And while they were beholding him going up to heaven, behold two men stood by them in white garments. 11Who also said: Ye men of Galilee, why stand you looking up to heaven? This Jesus who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come, as you have seen him going into heaven. On a Globe some would see Him coming Down and some will not.

4X4 therefore, when Jesus Christ, comes down as He went Up, it only means that Jesus Christ will not circle a false globe. Up is Up and Down Is Down on a flat service and all eyes shall see Him coming at the same time.

The Earth is Flat my friend! We are not spinning throughout space as NASA / SATAN would like us to believe.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tayla

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 30, 2017
1,694
801
USA
✟147,315.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Does Bible say the earth is flat?
The question should be, "Did the writers believe the earth was a sphere?" I doubt they did. The evidence:
  • Firmament (Genesis 1:6). A dome with water above and stars (hosts=angels), sun, and moon inside.
  • Circle of the earth (Isaiah 40:22). It may mean more than a 2-dimensional geometrical figure but it doesn't mean "sphere".
  • Four corners of the earth (Revelation 7:1). A sphere has no corners.
The frame of reference is on the earth's surface (which is flat, except where it isn't) or in the spiritual realm, not in orbit around the earth.
 
Upvote 0

Tayla

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 30, 2017
1,694
801
USA
✟147,315.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
the Rapture, which will take place in the DAY as well as in the NIGHT in the other part of the Globe.
There is no rapture. Rapture verses refer to the 2nd coming of Christ which will take place over a period of time, starting with global apparitions, culminating in his touchdown on the Mount of Olives.
 
Upvote 0

Another Lazarus

Old Newbie
Sep 19, 2013
2,717
1,050
✟49,808.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is no rapture. Rapture verses refer to the 2nd coming of Christ which will take place over a period of time, starting with global apparitions, culminating in his touchdown on the Mount of Olives.

Jesus says the foolish virgins shall be left behind (in the Tribulation) but the wise virgins shall be taken to the Feast of the Lamb (raptured) .

Thats why Jesus says
Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left".
 
Upvote 0

Tayla

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 30, 2017
1,694
801
USA
✟147,315.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Jesus says the foolish virgins shall be left behind (in the Tribulation) but the wise virgins shall be taken to the Feast of the Lamb (raptured) .

Thats why Jesus says
Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left".
There is no Great Tribulation. There is no rapture.

(Matthew 24:37) But as the days of Noe [Noah] were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
This was a total destruction of the world order, not a rapture; no one survived. It fits better with the 2nd coming of Christ. The redeemed will be on the ark, so to speak.​
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,140
51,515
Guam
✟4,910,141.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
"Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"

Circles are flat.
"Isaiah 66:1a Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool:"

Footstools are three dimensional.
 
Upvote 0

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
80
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,295.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
"Isaiah 66:1a Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool:"

Footstools are three dimensional.

Yes, they are three dimensional ---- the flat circular has to be held up.

Job 9:6 He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (NIV)
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,140
51,515
Guam
✟4,910,141.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yes, they are three dimensional ---- the flat circular has to be held up.

Job 9:6 He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. (NIV)
Circle of Earth + Pillars = Footstool
 
Upvote 0

Ron Gurley

What U See is What U Get!
Site Supporter
Sep 22, 2015
4,000
1,029
Baton Rouge, LA
Visit site
✟87,895.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
No.
God sees the earthly realm as an ORB, a vault, a spherical slice below the heavens.

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the "circle of the earth",
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

the circle...Hebrew 2329...chuwg...sphere, vault in the heavens

Proverbs 8:27 (NASB)
27 “When He established the heavens, I was there,
When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,

Job 22:14 (NASB)
14 Clouds are a hiding place for Him, so that He cannot see;
And He walks on the vault of heaven.’

Debunking Christianity: The Hebrew Universe

And He walks on the vault of heaven.
We walk on the vault of the earth.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Greg Merrill

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2017
3,536
4,621
71
Las Vegas
✟342,224.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No.
God sees the earthly realm as an ORB, a vault, a spherical slice below the heavens.

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the "circle of the earth",
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

the circle...Hebrew 2329...chuwg...sphere, vault in the heavens

Proverbs 8:27 (NASB)
27 “When He established the heavens, I was there,
When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,

Job 22:14 (NASB)
14 Clouds are a hiding place for Him, so that He cannot see;
And He walks on the vault of heaven.’

Debunking Christianity: The Hebrew Universe

And He walks on the vault of heaven.
We walk on the vault of the earth.

Ron, I like this post of yours, but reading through the rest of the thread reminds me of why I quit reading blogs on this site. I am now being alerted with the red number that there are about 400 blogs that I have not read.
 
Upvote 0