Did God Create Evil?

Obviously. God apparently created everything. In the Old Testament he was in charge of peace and calamity, and sent evil and lying spirits.

So God's really more morally ambiguous if anything.

I don't believe God created evil directly. But rather, as I've heard it said before, evil is simply the twisting of good. Evil doesn't exist in itself, in the same way that darkness doesn't exist in itself (we don't measure darkness, we measure light or lack thereof).

Also, the word for evil in the second verse can be interpreted in different ways: Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil?

jhwatts said:

I have always been told know but the Bible is clear on more than one verse that he did.

Proverbs 16:4

Isaiah 45:7

It seems that this is the case.

Please chime in and let me know how this is not the case.

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There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5). God is love (1 John 4:8); And God is good (Mark 10:18). God allowed for evil to exist within His universe by indirect means but God did not directly create evil or sin. Man chooses sin, and not God. Proverbs 16:4 is merely saying God creates all men physically no matter who they are. But that does not mean God created their evil choices that they decided to make.

13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:13-15).

The word "evil" in Isaiah 45:7 means "calamity" and it is not how we would define evil today.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things"
(Isaiah 45:7).

For what is the opposite contrast of light? Darkness. What is the opposite contrast of peace? Chaos or calamity. A time that is not peaceful. God creates moments of natural disasters, etc. in our world (as a form of Judgment) but these things are to get man to repent and to seek Him when they would not otherwise do so when things are comfortable and good.

I hope this helps;
And may God bless you.

jhwatts said:

The problem is the contrast in the verse between light and darkness and peace and evil. The intent of this verse is obviously to show the contrast over Gods creation and therefore its hard not realize the intent of the verse is to show that evil is the result of his work.

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Looks like you got it. I just replied and then noticed your post that said a similar thing that I did.
The opposite contrast of light is darkness. The opposite contrast of peace is a time of trouble or calamity, etc.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
To say that something else made "evil" Or that it was created by mistake, is to lessen the power of God.

For one to realize he is Tall, you must first walk among people who are shorter than yourself...Else you can never say/know, you are tall.

Maybe a better question would be whether or not Evil really exist.....or whether we are still tasting the forbidden fruit. But if you believe is exist, there has to be one creator.

jhwatts said:

I have always been told know but the Bible is clear on more than one verse that he did.

Proverbs 16:4

Isaiah 45:7

It seems that this is the case.

Please chime in and let me know how this is not the case.

Click to expand...

These verses can be helpful to think about too: James 1:13-15 and 1 Kings 22:19-22.

Where it says "I create evil", the context is that people left God and then got trouble. That trouble was managed by God in order to make a problem for the ones who left Him. Possibly, it was for their own good > they could have gotten their own selves into much worse. It could be like creating a backfire, in order to slow down and stop a forest fire.

Our Apostle Paul says there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience", in Ephesians 2:2. I do not think God brought the spirit of evil into existence.

Also, James 1:13 says God does not tempt anyone, and God can not be tempted by evil.

rayg

azdh

jhwatts said:

I have always been told know but the Bible is clear on more than one verse that he did.

Proverbs 16:4

Isaiah 45:7

It seems that this is the case.

Please chime in and let me know how this is not the case.

Click to expand...

Evil is separation from God and if you love something, you don't keep it on chains.
To evil is required so that love can thrive.

Gods providence allows us to be free but also works in a way that puts together that which we all choose to be in a best possible kind of way that lessens evils by ordering them in a useful way and in a way that attempts to lead us to goodness. he also negates much evils in this way.

God is in some way responsible for evil in the sense that his children have the capacity to do evil and to do good. this capacity of freedom was required (even though evil is not) because of how love is. the best possible world requires freedom if God is to both give and to also receive love but freedom must be set free from love and so humanities freedom was darkened in ignorance and blinded from the divine necessity and beauty, just as a snipping from a willow tree would at first appear to be a disaster for that part of the tree that is cut off but then is revealed to become an entire new tree when it roots and is planted in the ground.

when we turn to God our freedom becomes enlightened by God and we become children of the light and when that happens the wicked are said to be destroyed in hellfire because our ignorant freedom/soul/spirit has been reunited with God who we belong to. thus no longer being a cold soul we have the life and warmth of divine love.

therefore evils justification is because we need freedom if we wish to exist and to love God and to be loved by God. so the sacrifice of Christ in bearing our sins is the price God paid to have many children, for Christ is that willow tree.

jhwatts said:

My thoughts, to create evil and perform evil are not the same.

I appreciate the responses, however, nobody has help me to reconcile the Proverbs 16:4.

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Proverbs 16:4 is merely saying God created the physical bodies of those who turned out to be wicked. He created them for a day of evil (Meaning, the day of trouble, death, and or judgment that shall come upon them). God allowing sin and evil in his universe temporarily does not mean God approves with sin and or evil or that God wants His creation to sin or do evil.

"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction." (Romans 9:22). Vessels of wrath. God created the outside vessel only. God did not create them to sin or do evil as their only option. James 1:13-14 says God tempts no man and that man is drawn away by his own lust and desire. So this means that sin or evil originates within man. It is his choice out of his free will. Yet, man has the free will choice to do good and follow the Lord, too.

Also, think of sin as the absense of God's holiness and righteous good ways. Sort of like darkness is the absense of light or like cold is the absense of heat. Sin is the absense of God in our lives. For if God is in our lives then we will be moved by Him to do that which is good and right because He lives in our hearts.

Side Note:

Please keep in mind that God does not choose some to be damned or to be wicked. Calvinism is not true. God merely knows who will turn out to be vessels of wrath as a part of His infinite knowledge.

True love cannot exist without evil existing. God wants man to choose of Him of their own free will so as to allow man to love Him truly and freely of his own choice. Unfortunately this also allows for man to not choose God and hence evil then exists in the universe. But God making the physical bodies of all men does not mean God is responsible for what men do. God gave man free will choice to either choose the good or to do evil. They will be held responsible at a judgment. So when you read Proverbs 16:4, you have to understand that God is speaking about the outer shell of the body only. God is not talking about how he hardwired men's inner choice to do evil. God cannot directly create evil. It is impossible. There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5). God is love (1 John 4:8). God is good (Mark 10:18). Men are drawn away and enticed by their own lust (James 1:13-14).

Also, in regards to Proverbs 16:4: Check out these articles here:

http://reknew.org/2008/01/proverbs-164/

The LORD made all things for himself, even the wicked, but he is NOT forcing people to sin (Prov. 16:4)

The Arminian Files: Did God Create the Wicked? [Proverbs 16:4]

They may help you.

I think when GOD created living creatures and their worlds, spiritual and physical, he created all the matrix of spiritual and physical things in a certain proportional way, creating the opposite of every matter in order to diversify His creations.

For example, matter has its antimatter, so the opposite of big will be small, of long will be short, and so on. This means that creating good it has to be the opposite of it the evil. Evil also serve its purpose in GOD’S creation dividing leaving creatures in the same way as a matter divided from antimatter.

GOD does not test people with evil, but allowed evil to test humankind, just like Job was tested. Beside that evil brings only sufferings, on the other hand people tested by evil know exactly what it means, and some fail the test but others succeeded and resisted and opposed the evil with all their strength, in this sense they are the special ones. And, how we possibly can know good without experience the evil?

Knowledge of good and evil is a part of GOD’S nature and His character and personality, He always knew good and evil, as it was recorded in Genesis concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil. When serpent said to Eve, “You will be like GODS know good and evil” he did not lie, he told the truth.

But the difference between GOD knowing good and evil and humankind is completely different. We use evil for our own advantage over others, but GOD uses our own evil against us. He has no evil, so He uses our own evil to punish us for our evil deeds. Such tactic of GOD shall make us to call for repentance in order to receive forgiveness, and such instances are recorded through entire Bible.

So, from theological point of view, we may say that GOD actually created evil as an opposite to goodness, just like He creates matter and antimatter, plus and minus, and so on.

But from realistic point of view, evil is a part of the over whole knowledge of GOD, and He let this knowledge to be known to all His creations.

jhwatts said:

I have always been told know but the Bible is clear on more than one verse that he did.

Proverbs 16:4

Isaiah 45:7

It seems that this is the case.

Please chime in and let me know how this is not the case.

Click to expand...

In this case I think it is good to understand what evil really means. Evil is like darkness or emptiness. It is really nothing. Evil exists, when good is not present. That is why, when God allows people to reject Him and goodness, they get "darkness", which is lack of "light". Only thing needed for evilness is that there is not goodness.