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Did God Create Evil?

Anguspure

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I am new here and not a convinced Christian, so perhaps my baptism was in vain, yet I see verses like this one and have seen and read the OT about the killings that God has done, sometimes simply it seems out of jealousy because people did not worship him. I'm an honest person; I cannot bring myself to love God after all I have read in the OT. I felt drawn to him at one time, but now I am repulsed by reading the OT. Is it possible that I cannot be a Christian?
Much of the repulsion of the OT comes from a lack of information, much of which is lost in translation, but also from a perspective issue.

By way of analogy I think that you might be repulsed by the terrible and gruesome things that I would do to a person (and anybody who was with him) who was watching TV in my house.

It is only when you expand your view a little and begin to understand that the person has broken into the house and interfered with my kids and wife, killed the dog, sold all my stuff for drugs and invited every other dirt bag in to do the same, during time that I have been away that you might begin seeing things in a different light.

In fact even the slightest threat of such a thing happening to those who I love might evoke a similarly repulsive response. My wife in particular would certainly hope that I was particularly repulsive against such provocation, just as the bride of God might expect that He would work against those who would destroy His beloved.

Love always protects.
 
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Anguspure

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I appreciate the answers. I cannot ignore what I have already learned of the OT though, and the remedy offered is kind yet too simple. I cannot accept killing or the rape of anyone when it is not in self defense, yet God ordered the Israelites to kill everything in canaan and they did not, and he permitted them the rape of young girls. Very unjust. I do believe that even though this is my second post it is time to walk far away from Christianity. My thanks to you for making me confront this problem head on. Goodbye.
What is the point of that?
 
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Aseyesee

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Much of the repulsion of the OT comes from a lack of information, much of which is lost in translation, but also from a perspective issue.

By way of analogy I think that you might be repulsed by the terrible and gruesome things that I would do to a person (and anybody who was with him) who was watching TV in my house.

It is only when you expand your view a little and begin to understand that the person has broken into the house and interfered with my kids and wife, killed the dog, sold all my stuff for drugs and invited every other dirt bag in to do the same, during time that I have been away that you might begin seeing things in a different light.

In fact even the slightest threat of such a thing happening to those who I love might evoke a similarly repulsive response. My wife in particular would certainly hope that I was particularly repulsive against such provocation, just as the bride of God might expect that He would work against those who would destroy His beloved.

Love always protects.

On the otherhand, love set all things in motion.
 
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Neogaia777

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That depends on one's perspective I think. From my perspective, I would say yes but I am not a strict Calvinist and a strict Calvinist might say no as the thing was merely doing what God ordained and had no choice in the matter.
Ah... Yes, one of the, or a, big question(s)...

God Bless!
 
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dx70

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Your carnal mind told you these things happened. And the carnal mind can't understand the things of God..
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So rape and murder are now things of God, and I don't understand them correctly because I have a carnal mind. I am repulsed by the only mind I have ever had, and there is nothing spiritual about rape of murder except perhaps for those doing it.

No sir, there is nothing there to misunderstand about rape and murder and okaying it.

Gods way are said to be higher than mans ways yet here I see God doing the things that man does,
so I MUST ask, "Where are those high ways that I may learn to live by them?"

This rapes and murders must be the fault of God's carnal mind. They are carnal acts after all.

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..it is emnity against Him.

Yes, I am the enemy of all that rape, pillage and murder.

So where is this God of love hiding? Is he too repulsed by the evil that was done?
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You can't serve two masters. When you are ready to serve the Lord and not your own mind...he'll be waiting for you.

I don't serve anyone that thinks it is acceptable to murder and rape and yet claims that his ways are higher than my ways.

If I were to suggest a thing it would be that God serve under a gentle man for a time to learn how to have higher ways than those of men...but I am afraid that God might rape and murder him in a fit of rage and jealousy.

Thank you for the reply.





..until then, let your mind lead you as long and as far as you feel it can...

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dx70

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Much of the repulsion of the OT comes from a lack of information, much of which is lost in translation, but also from a perspective issue.

By way of analogy I think that you might be repulsed by the terrible and gruesome things that I would do to a person (and anybody who was with him) who was watching TV in my house.

It is only when you expand your view a little and begin to understand that the person has broken into the house and interfered with my kids and wife, killed the dog, sold all my stuff for drugs and invited every other dirt bag in to do the same, during time that I have been away that you might begin seeing things in a different light.
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Of course I have seen that Love protects and preserves.

However that was not what God was doing when he ordered Israel to kill everything in Canaan. God knew those people had been there for centuries and allowed them to stay. To compare them to breaking and entering his house is just plain wrong.

A God whose ways are higher than those of men would know a way to remove them peacefully and do so without demonstrating to his children that he will do the very things that he told them not to do,
like "thou shalt not kill"...

I do agree with you that love protects and preserves, yet the canaanites are still just as dead and their women murdered and raped. Looks like that God of love is late showing up.





In fact even the slightest threat of such a thing happening to those who I love might evoke a similarly repulsive response. My wife in particular would certainly hope that I was particularly repulsive against such provocation, just as the bride of God might expect that He would work against those who would destroy His beloved.

Love always protects.
 
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RaymondG

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There is some wisdom in the "humpty dumpty" story. But you have to be mature enough to look pass the fact that eggs can't really walk talk and climb. Let your mind focus on the impossibility of the egg and the wall until it is ready to let go and see the moral left behind...And be saved by it.
 
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dx70

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There is some wisdom in the "humpty dumpty" story. But you have to be mature enough to look pass the fact that eggs can't really walk talk and climb.

Eggs cannot walk or talk, and the canaanites are just as dead as when I first posted.


Let your mind focus on the impossibility of the egg and the wall until it is ready to let go and see the moral left behind...And be saved by it.

I admire your ability to avoid answering direct queries by finding fault in those that have difficulties with religious teachings.

I'm sure that I am too stupid to learn this thing which you have honed to a fine art, so I'll say good day and be on my way. Your God doesn't need me and I certainly don't need him or his followers, if they are all like you are.

Good day.
 
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Anguspure

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Of course I have seen that Love protects and preserves.

However that was not what God was doing when he ordered Israel to kill everything in Canaan. God knew those people had been there for centuries and allowed them to stay. To compare them to breaking and entering his house is just plain wrong.
Nevertheless I for one am prepared to give Jesus of Nazareth (an innocent man who gave his perfect life so that everyone of us who were (and are) his enemies may be saved from death) the benefit of the doubt when he claims to be the Son of the God of Abraham.

Given that this demonstrably supremely Loving man would have fully apprehended the history given in scripture and then identified with it might indicate that a couple of millennia, a culture and a translation of the story away, I might perhaps misapprehend and misunderstand the story a bit.

In respect of the above, I think the truth is that he had been warning the Canaanites to repent of their evil for centuries, a number of centuries during which He had kept the children of the promise in a holding pattern in Egypt, while He waited to see the response. It is well known the depths of depravity and evil that the people living in Canaan had sunk to, and it is quite possible that we do not really know what other mankind destroying antics were taking place in the area, suffice to say that the Nephilim were present in the land at the time.

Nevertheless if in His estimation they had gone well beyond the point of no return at considerable danger to the whole of mankind, then that is a decision that I trust my Creator and Redeemer to make.

A God whose ways are higher than those of men would know a way to remove them peacefully and do so without demonstrating to his children that he will do the very things that he told them not to do,
like "thou shalt not kill"...
Perhaps in the case of free agents willfully under the influence of the evil one there is no peaceful way. Perhaps when Adam handed over the authority of the world to another the only way for the Creator to act (without a total destruction of creation) is through the free will act of his agents on earth.

Certainly when the time was right God did in fact sort the problem out in not just a peaceful way but in a way that cost Him His own life.

I do agree with you that love protects and preserves, yet the canaanites are still just as dead and their women murdered and raped. Looks like that God of love is late showing up.
I'm not really sure that the charge of rape stands scrutiny. Given the culture of the time it would have been a mercy for a person to have been offered safe haven among the families of the invading force rather than the alternative.

But again the idea of the lateness of God presumes that we really know what is going on. I can think of a number of ways in which it could be said that the timing is actually quite good. But then I am only a man.
 
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Vicomte13

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God has it in mind to kill every one of us. To this time, he has done exactly that with every single person who has ever lived. It is part of his design. It is a great evil for us. He has every right to do it. We believe that he has a perfectly good reason for doing so, because we trust him.

Sentence 1, 2, 3 and 4 are absolutely true. Sentence 5 - matters of "right" - are strange when speaking of God. He has the "right" to do it because might makes right. (I am being descriptive, not prescriptive.)
As far s the last sentence goes, I don't know that I believe that he has a perfectly good reason for doing so - but I do trust that if I do as he says and forgive everybody as I want to be forgiven, that he will do what we said he would do and forgive me. More than that, well, I'd prefer it if he were more forgiving himself. Eternal life in the City of God sounds swell, but I'd like to go on living forever right here, it's a nice world, and I'd be well pleased to have immortality by not dying. But I understand that's not on the cards, and I have to accept that it isn't for the same reason I have to accept the physics: some things just are so, whether I like them or not.

I don't particularly like them. But I forgive God for making things this way. I do presume that he knows what he is doing, and that all of the great things that he promises will make up for the painful aspects of this vale of tears, which I know he always COULD just simply remove - he COULD have just forgiven Adam and Eve too, after all - but he didn't, and he won't. So my choice is the same as everybody else's: settle for what is and do what he said and - it is hoped - get the promised reward. Or do something else, die in any event, and probably get the promised un-reward.

One must just accept such things, much as one accepts the physics. Fall down go boom is not pleasant. But it's also not optional, so there's no point in getting angry about it. God's not going to change anything to suit me in that regard, probably. Why would he?
 
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RaymondG

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I admire your ability to avoid answering direct queries by finding fault in those that have difficulties with religious teachings.

I'm sure that I am too stupid to learn this thing which you have honed to a fine art, so I'll say good day and be on my way. Your God doesn't need me and I certainly don't need him or his followers, if they are all like you are.

Good day.
You don't know my God, if you did you wouldn't be saying the things you are saying. My ideas are spiritual and yours religious. And the carnal mind can't understand the things of the spirit. I would not be able to tell you anything you would understand, because you look to reason with your carnal mind.
 
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RaymondG

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Look at what you said that sparked my response. Accusing someone of being carnally minded because you disagree!
I don't disagree with him. I advised him to take his beliefs as far as he is willing to let them take him. We all have carnal minds....it is what we use everyday to think....so you just accused me of accusing him of being human. No man comes to the son accept the father draws him. Forgive me or not being willing to argue religion, or be a shield for the all powerful....as if He needs my defense and protection.
 
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Jason_apostle

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why would God create something that would make him angry? maybe he needed to express that emotion somehow. The evil God creates is nothing like the evil Man creates. God just works through Man's evils to conform to his will. because even the authorites are under his command.
 
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