Six Day Creation? No Way!

Revealing Times

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I'm considering taking the Literary Framework View of Genesis 1. If you're unfamiliar, this is the view that Genesis 1 is a poem or song that is using a six day framework in order to communicate truths about God and Creation, but not to be understood as six historical days. It's an argument from genre.

However before I really made a commitment to this view I wanted to try it on for size and see if it could be adequately defended. How would you challenge this view? I'll try my best in this thread to defend it.

I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality. Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light years away, so we would have to be naive to think the universe is 6000 years old.

Onward to what Genesis says about creation, does it really say the universe or earth is 6000 years old? I don’t think it does, I think its a mistranslation of a primitive language that had only around 4000 words at the time Genesis was written, whereas the English language has 500,000 words. So many of the Hebrew words were used in multiple ways. For instance the original meaning of the Hebrew word YOWM (Day) means “to be hot” and there are at least 50 other meanings listed in strong’s concordance’s lexicon of Hebrew words. A year, a month, a period of time, chronicles, evening and morning (Beginning and end), age, perpetually, long, some time, whole, X required season, continually etc. etc., well you get the point.

YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is supposed to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion it lasted from 13.7 Billion BC until 4.5 Billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the Sun & Earth were formed. So lets take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God, then you had Inflation, followed by Afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! Gods word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from Gods POV, no man was there of course and with God he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. Remember the verse, a thousand years is like a day and a day like unto a thousand years unto God. In other words God lives in the past, present and future all at the same time.
wmap-timeline (1).jpg


So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes Transparent to Light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off.

The second day (period of time) of course would be from the Earth & the Suns formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the Third day (period of time) then on the Fourth day it seems God Set the Seasons or placed the Moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth is supposed to have collided. Anyway, that set the seasons, times, years etc. etc. Mind you, all of these ideas are rudimentary observations. A theory of how the things God says in His Holy Word and Science can both be factual. They are not meant to imply everything went down just so and in like manner, the dates of course are guesstimates, I wasn’t there.

On the Fifth day God created the Sea animals/birds and what not, were the Dinos created here or with the land animals? The fifth day lasted 300 million to 400 million years or so. On the Sixth Day around 300–350 Million BC God created the Land Animals. During this period of time the Dinosaurs became extinct about 70 Million years ago. Then during this “TIME PERIOD” (6TH DAY) God decided to create man 6000 or so years ago. Some might protest that men have been around much longer, but I offer this up, where is the data? Men are record keepers and we don’t have proof of men going back further. Now as per “MEN” being observed by scientists to have been around X Number of years, I never said Animal like men weren’t around, I stated Human Beings were created 6000 years ago, when God placed His spirit in us and thus we are immortal in that our souls can not die. We were at that point in time “Created in Gods Image”. The other fossils and bones mean nothing, because Scientists have no way of testing for God imparting His spirit into mankind and creating “Human Beings” with powerful intellects.

On the Seventh Day God rested, which only means He ceased Creating the Heavens/Earth/Mankind/Animals. So when we see stars and galaxies created today, it was ordered forth 13.7 Billion years ago. So its not necessarily either or. We need to start looking at things with an open mind, be we an atheist or a Christian.

P.S. Just something to think about. Einstein’s theory of relativity is in the very first verse of the bible, relatively speaking…LOL.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heaven(SPACE) and the earth(MATTER).
 
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pat34lee

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The second day (period of time) of course would be from the Earth & the Suns formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the Third day (period of time) then on the Fourth day it seems God Set the Seasons or placed the Moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth is supposed to have collided.

Thinking outside the box sometimes gives you as bad
a picture as coloring outside the lines. The sun wasn't
created until day 4, along with the moon and stars.

That was three full days after he created light and one
day after creating plant life. God didn't intend creation
to be confused or compromised with the fairy tale of
evolution and long periods of time.
 
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Revealing Times

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Thinking outside the box sometimes gives you as bad
a picture as coloring outside the lines. The sun wasn't
created until day 4, along with the moon and stars.

That was three full days after he created light and one
day after creating plant life. God didn't intend creation
to be confused or compromised with the fairy tale of
evolution and long periods of time.
If I have heard this once I have heard it a thousand times, and I just shake my head at these young earth arguments/hypothesis. Of course the earth was formed on the 2nd Day and Grass came forth on the 3rd day without any sun (impossible). The earth would be shot into outer space without the gravitational pull of the sun. That's not how Universes form, they form around the nubula which is a cloud of gas. The official way that it happens is bellow:

Current Understanding. A cloud collapses to form a star and disk. Planets form from this disk. According to our current understanding, a star and its planets form out of a collapsing cloud of dust and gas within a larger cloud called a nebula.

It took 40 million years for the earths crust to cool enough so that grass could grow, of course it was many years later that the first grasses actually were formed/created by God. The scriptures does not imply the Sun was created on the fourth day, most people, many, just misunderstand it.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night(KEY HERE); and let them be for signs, and for SEASONS for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day(SUN), and the lesser light to rule the night(MOON): he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

So what does everyone miss here? This is GOD setting the SEASONS. The Earth and Moon CRASHED VIOLENTLY into each other, the moon was supposed to be about as big as our earth, but the Earth in this violent crash gained much of the mass from the moon which was basically another planet, this is why we have a VERY UNIQUE/Large Moon compared to other moons and Planets, its VERY CLOSE and keeps us stable. In Gods POINT OF VIEW (This is His observation of creation) the SEASONS were Created by God placing the Moon in the prime position, it caused perfect seasons, it gave us DAY and NIGHT in regular order, without the moon the Earth would wobble and we would have violent weather, VERY VIOLENT, and our seasons would be crazy and our days might have no sun light at times and no darkness at times.

So God set the SEASONS and that's what the bible says in verse 14, the Sun was here when the Earth was created, the Earth could not come into existence without the Sun, its not possible, but the Moon gave us the LESSER NIGHT LIGHT (Reflection) and the day gave us the Daylight, but it took God placing the moon in the proper place to make all this work so that we have PROPER DAYS as we know them. God is not a God that has to create things OUT OF ORDER, God is a God of order, He doesn't need to superficially HURRY things up, God creates things and lives in the future with His creation as soon as its created. God did not create the Universe in 6 Days, that is just not a possibility IMHO, if anyone chooses to believe that more power to them, but I chose to search for the truth, so that we might reach those who look at our beliefs and say WHAT 6 Days? Because it just doesn't add up. And I have been a preacher for 30 years my friend.

It takes millions of years for sunlight to reach our earth, but of course God just sped things up. Even though He lives in the past, present and future all at once. I don't buy it, God Created the Universe over a 13.7 Billion year period, all the stats point to this, and even the Bible backs this up, that is why the EVENING was FIRST.....400 Million years of Darkness.

God Bless.
 
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Oseas

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I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality. Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light years away, so we would have to be naive to think the universe is 6000 years old.

Onward to what Genesis says about creation, does it really say the universe or earth is 6000 years old? I don’t think it does, I think its a mistranslation of a primitive language that had only around 4000 words at the time Genesis was written, whereas the English language has 500,000 words. So many of the Hebrew words were used in multiple ways. For instance the original meaning of the Hebrew word YOWM (Day) means “to be hot” and there are at least 50 other meanings listed in strong’s concordance’s lexicon of Hebrew words. A year, a month, a period of time, chronicles, evening and morning (Beginning and end), age, perpetually, long, some time, whole, X required season, continually etc. etc., well you get the point.

YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is supposed to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion it lasted from 13.7 Billion BC until 4.5 Billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the Sun & Earth were formed. So lets take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God, then you had Inflation, followed by Afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! Gods word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from Gods POV, no man was there of course and with God he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. Remember the verse, a thousand years is like a day and a day like unto a thousand years unto God. In other words God lives in the past, present and future all at the same time.
View attachment 206648

So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes Transparent to Light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off.

The second day (period of time) of course would be from the Earth & the Suns formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the Third day (period of time) then on the Fourth day it seems God Set the Seasons or placed the Moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth is supposed to have collided. Anyway, that set the seasons, times, years etc. etc. Mind you, all of these ideas are rudimentary observations. A theory of how the things God says in His Holy Word and Science can both be factual. They are not meant to imply everything went down just so and in like manner, the dates of course are guesstimates, I wasn’t there.

On the Fifth day God created the Sea animals/birds and what not, were the Dinos created here or with the land animals? The fifth day lasted 300 million to 400 million years or so. On the Sixth Day around 300–350 Million BC God created the Land Animals. During this period of time the Dinosaurs became extinct about 70 Million years ago. Then during this “TIME PERIOD” (6TH DAY) God decided to create man 6000 or so years ago. Some might protest that men have been around much longer, but I offer this up, where is the data? Men are record keepers and we don’t have proof of men going back further. Now as per “MEN” being observed by scientists to have been around X Number of years, I never said Animal like men weren’t around, I stated Human Beings were created 6000 years ago, when God placed His spirit in us and thus we are immortal in that our souls can not die. We were at that point in time “Created in Gods Image”. The other fossils and bones mean nothing, because Scientists have no way of testing for God imparting His spirit into mankind and creating “Human Beings” with powerful intellects.

On the Seventh Day God rested, which only means He ceased Creating the Heavens/Earth/Mankind/Animals. So when we see stars and galaxies created today, it was ordered forth 13.7 Billion years ago. So its not necessarily either or. We need to start looking at things with an open mind, be we an atheist or a Christian.

P.S. Just something to think about. Einstein’s theory of relativity is in the very first verse of the bible, relatively speaking…LOL.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heaven(SPACE) and the earth(MATTER).

In truth, Genesis 1 is a description of a plan of God for restauration of all things which were destroyed times ago in the Garden of Eden. Other interesting thing that calls attention is the fact that Moses has received this REVELATION from the Most High and Almighty God around 2.500 years after Adam, precisely after passed two and half days of the week of God. (One Day with the Lord is as a thousand years and vice-versa, as it is revealed by Moses in his pray (Psa.90:v.4 and 2Peter 3:v.8)

Psalms 90:v.12-13&16

v.12 Teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom. 13 Return, O Lord, how long? and let it repent thee concerning thy servants. 16 Let thy work appear unto thy servants, and thy glory unto their children.

Based on God's six days of creation and one day of rest (a total of seven days or seven millenniums) plus the Scriptures that teach that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4; II Pet. 3:8; Heb. 4:4), then the mankind will go through six God days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years) plus a Millennium of 1,000 years rest (now a total of 7,000 years).

In accord the Holy Scriptures, we can number our days, beginning in Genesis chap.5, so we have a table of biblical times, as follow:

Adam lived ….....................................130 yrs and begat Seth
Seth lived .........................................105 yrs and begat Enosh;
Enosh lived .........................................90 yrs and begat Kenan; Kenan lived.........................................70 yrs and begat Mahalalel;
Mahalalel lived ...................................65 yrs and begat Jared;
Jared lived .......................................162 yrs and begat Enoch;
Enoch lived ........................................65 yrs and begat Methuselah;
Methuselah lived...............................187 yrs and begat Lamech;
Lamech lived ....................................182 yrs and begat Noah;
From Noah´s birth until the Flood....600 yrs.


Total of yrs from Adam to the Flood = 1,656 yrs. I work with the Word of God. Notice that the table above is proved by the Word of God (Gen.5:1to32), it is not of human theories or human speculations. Let us study the times until our days not by human theories and speculations, but by the Word of God. See the timeline below:

PERIODS OF BIBLICAL TIMES -----------------DURATION

I - From Adam until the Flood----------------------1,656 years (as was showed above)
II - From the Flood until Abraham-------------------427 years
III - From Abraham until Exodus--------------------430 years
IV - From Exodus until king Saul --------------------396 years
V - From Saul until the fall of Jerusalem -----------508 years
VI - From the fall of Jerusalem until Jesus ---------
587 years


Thus, from Adam until the 1st coming of Jesus - 4,004 years

From Jesus until our days (Christian Calendar) -2,017 years

Total from Adam until our days ------------------- 6,021 years

Jesus, the Greater Light (Gen.1:16) came in the fourth Day of God's week or around 4.000 years after the creation of the first Adam, the earthly Adam. From JESUS (fourth Day) until our days, have passed more two Days of the week of God, totalizing 6 complete Days or six milleniums, around 6.000 years, more precisely 6.017 years, conform Christian Calendar. We have entered in the first century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day of God's week, that is the Great Sabbath. We are living in the first century of the seventh and last millennium, the millennium of Christ, the Millennium of Truth, and the Day of the Lord, and the Day of Vengeance, and the Day of Judgment. And our Almighty God the Father entered in His rest, as He had planned in the beginning of His works, but He is not sleeping of course, and JESUS assumed the control or the government of the Universe. JESUS is now sat on His Tribunal, the Judgment Seat of Christ, to Judge all nations, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not His gospel, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever. (Rev.11:15)

Return, O Lord, how long? And let repent thee concerning thy servants. Let thy WORK appear unto thy servants, and thy glory unto their children. Amen.Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 
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6 Day , If there would be billion of years and earth would be 4b old or however it is assumed to be , then radioactive carbon used for carbon dating would reach equilibrium ( same amount come in as same amount fall apart ) , but since we know that it is still incrasing and is not in equilibrium . It is estimated that it would take 30 000 -50 000 years to take from clear atmosphere without radioactive carbon to make it to equilibrium .

Since we know that 4b year old earth literally can't exist , unless it lost atmosphere many times , and if it did lose many times then every time all live would die on earth contradicting theory of evolution . Also with 4b year old earth , moon would be literally inside of earth because it's leaving us like 4cm every year .
 
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Oseas

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If I have heard this once I have heard it a thousand times, and I just shake my head at these young earth arguments/hypothesis. Of course the earth was formed on the 2nd Day and Grass came forth on the 3rd day without any sun (impossible). The earth would be shot into outer space without the gravitational pull of the sun. That's not how Universes form, they form around the nubula which is a cloud of gas. The official way that it happens is bellow:

Current Understanding. A cloud collapses to form a star and disk. Planets form from this disk. According to our current understanding, a star and its planets form out of a collapsing cloud of dust and gas within a larger cloud called a nebula.

It took 40 million years for the earths crust to cool enough so that grass could grow, of course it was many years later that the first grasses actually were formed/created by God. The scriptures does not imply the Sun was created on the fourth day, most people, many, just misunderstand it.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night(KEY HERE); and let them be for signs, and for SEASONS for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day(SUN), and the lesser light to rule the night(MOON): he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

So what does everyone miss here? This is GOD setting the SEASONS. The Earth and Moon CRASHED VIOLENTLY into each other, the moon was supposed to be about as big as our earth, but the Earth in this violent crash gained much of the mass from the moon which was basically another planet, this is why we have a VERY UNIQUE/Large Moon compared to other moons and Planets, its VERY CLOSE and keeps us stable. In Gods POINT OF VIEW (This is His observation of creation) the SEASONS were Created by God placing the Moon in the prime position, it caused perfect seasons, it gave us DAY and NIGHT in regular order, without the moon the Earth would wobble and we would have violent weather, VERY VIOLENT, and our seasons would be crazy and our days might have no sun light at times and no darkness at times.

So God set the SEASONS and that's what the bible says in verse 14, the Sun was here when the Earth was created, the Earth could not come into existence without the Sun, its not possible, but the Moon gave us the LESSER NIGHT LIGHT (Reflection) and the day gave us the Daylight, but it took God placing the moon in the proper place to make all this work so that we have PROPER DAYS as we know them. God is not a God that has to create things OUT OF ORDER, God is a God of order, He doesn't need to superficially HURRY things up, God creates things and lives in the future with His creation as soon as its created. God did not create the Universe in 6 Days, that is just not a possibility IMHO, if anyone chooses to believe that more power to them, but I chose to search for the truth, so that we might reach those who look at our beliefs and say WHAT 6 Days? Because it just doesn't add up. And I have been a preacher for 30 years my friend.

It takes millions of years for sunlight to reach our earth, but of course God just sped things up. Even though He lives in the past, present and future all at once. I don't buy it, God Created the Universe over a 13.7 year period, all the stats point to this, and even the Bible backs this up, that is why the EVENING was FIRST.....400 Million years of Darkness.

God Bless.


Genesis 1 - The first Day

First I would like to say that the people are not familiarized with the revelations of deep mysteries described in Genesis, which are hidden behind or under the letters. Remember, the Bible explains the Bible. Let's see, Genesis is a plan of six days of work which God established previously for the restoration of all things, which were destroyed in the earth after the rebellion of the inhabitants of Eden, starting by the ruler of Eden, a former Cherub. There was a large period of time from the fall of the inhabitants of Eden until the first Day of God's work, maybe many many millenniums, this period is not revealed in the Bible. What we can say is that when God started His work of restoration of all things, “the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the abyss. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” (Gen.1:1). Here begin the mysteries:

1- The earth was formless. Yes, but in what sense? Geometric? No, absolutely not. The Word of God is not referring itself to the terrestrial globe geometrically round (readIsaiah 40:22), but by figure it is referring to a population spiritually in thick darkness, and void, yea, void of the Spirit of God, without life and salvation, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Waters? Please, I do not believe that someone thinks the Spirit of God moved upon H2O, this is a nonsense. We know that the expression “waters or sea or deep” in the Bible it signifies several things, so we must use the word “waters” correctly in biblical interpretations, and it happens only by the Spirit and by wisdom, for example, in Rev. 17:v.15, waters are “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues”. I must tell that in Genesis 1:1, waters verily are “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues” and not H2O, the Spirit of God did not move upon H2O. Later you will understand better this mystery in the message. The Bible explains the Bible.

But Gen.1:1-5 says:

v.1-In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. In the Bible, heaven is not the physical space of the Universe, but celestial regions in Christ JESUS or Dispensations established here on earth by our God, the most High and Almighty God, like the Dispenstions of the OT and NT, which are the first and the second heavens. In truth, were created several heavens, the first (OT), the second(NT), the third heaven, that is the kingdom of God which will be established in this millennium, the millenium of Christ, and the heaven of the heavens, after end this new millennium in which we are living.

But the great mystery is: In the beginning God created...ie. In JESUS (and through JESUS) God created the heavens and the earth. (John1:1-3) In the beginning (in JESUS) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. And Heb.1:1-2- God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds.

The earth, in Gen.1:1 is the nation of Israel, created in the beginning in the first Day, in accord the promise made to the Abraham, and the waters are all Gentile peoples.

v.2 - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

This I have explained above.

v.3 - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Well, the earth (Israel) was without form in the first Day, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep (sea). And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the “waters” (peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues” and not H2O),and God claimed in the midst of the darkeness: Let there be light (well, God is Light, when He claimed “Let there be light”, He meant: Let me be known of the peoples, nations, multitudes and tongues. And there was light.

v.4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

This process continues yet.

v.5 - And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first Day.

Moses said: Psa. 90:4 - A thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Peter 3:8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Keep this in mind, this plan of God for the restoration of all things is 6,000 years old, but not the appearance of Adam after the rebellion in Eden. From the time of the fall in the garden of Eden dwellers to the beginning of the works planned and expressed in the book of Genesis, there was a great and vast period of time. There were gigantic metamorphoses in this black and long period from the beginning of rebellion and fall in the Garden of Eden until the beginning of the works of the restoration of everything 6,000 years ago, according to Genesis the earth became an abyss of darkness, a chaos in all the senses of life, sin had multiplied and aggravated a lot, a chaos, after the rebellion in Eden, I repeat. It is important to know that we have just entered the first century of the seventh and last millennium, the week of God has 7 days, but as it was revealed to Moses, a thousand years are in the eyes of God as one day, as the day of yesterday that passed and as the watch of the night.
 
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Sapiens

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I as a 30 year Christian try to think outside the box of normality. Is the universe 6000 years old? Is the universe 13.7 billion years old? Do these two questions clash or is there a translation barrier !! This is how I think. I try to bring both poles of thought towards each other starting with the facts. We know the universe has to be over 6000 years old because we see light from stars that are millions of light years away, so we would have to be naive to think the universe is 6000 years old.

Onward to what Genesis says about creation, does it really say the universe or earth is 6000 years old? I don’t think it does, I think its a mistranslation of a primitive language that had only around 4000 words at the time Genesis was written, whereas the English language has 500,000 words. So many of the Hebrew words were used in multiple ways. For instance the original meaning of the Hebrew word YOWM (Day) means “to be hot” and there are at least 50 other meanings listed in strong’s concordance’s lexicon of Hebrew words. A year, a month, a period of time, chronicles, evening and morning (Beginning and end), age, perpetually, long, some time, whole, X required season, continually etc. etc., well you get the point.

YOWM or “To be hot”, what would this mean and why was it used since God is supposed to have given Moses the first five books of the Torah. Well when the universe was spoken into existence by God, it took 400 million years for the first stars to form. So the first Day (to be hot) was the Evening (Darkness, 400 million years of darkness) and the Morning ( The stars started forming) and the first day was a “period of time” and in my opinion it lasted from 13.7 Billion BC until 4.5 Billion BC (9.2 Billion years) when the Sun & Earth were formed. So lets take a second and look at the Bible and the WMAP research and see if this matches.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Now look below at the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) which launched in 2001 and won many awards, they mapped the whole universe out. Below as we see, you had Quantum Fluctuations which I contend is God, then you had Inflation, followed by Afterglow, followed by 400 MILLION YEARS of Darkness !! Just like the bible says in verse 2, and there was Darkness on the Face of the Deep !! Gods word is perfect, it is us who are confused. DARK AGES Mapped out by the WMAP, followed by what? The first stars forming at the 400 million year mark. Verse three says what? and God said “Let there be light” God is right again. We are looking at Creation from Gods POV, no man was there of course and with God he is not subject to time, he created time for us via this universe, but He is eternal and thus was never created. Remember the verse, a thousand years is like a day and a day like unto a thousand years unto God. In other words God lives in the past, present and future all at the same time.
View attachment 206648

So we had the Big Bang, followed by Inflation, followed by Cosmic Microwave background where after 375,000 years loose electrons cool enough to combine with protons. The Universe becomes Transparent to Light. The Microwave background begins to shine. Then the dark ages/clouds of dark hydrogen gas cool and coalesce.

The first stars appear….Gas Clouds collapse, the fusion of Stars begin, the first of which appears at about 400 million years after the big bang. So, when the bible says Darkness was on the face of the deep, God knew exactly what was happening in the very beginning !! The more we look for the answers, the more that science and the bible will converge, if both sides with differing viewpoints would only take their blinders off.

The second day (period of time) of course would be from the Earth & the Suns formation until the grasses and trees came forth on the Third day (period of time) then on the Fourth day it seems God Set the Seasons or placed the Moon in its perfect orbit where our seasons are not strange, but orderly, I know the moon and earth is supposed to have collided. Anyway, that set the seasons, times, years etc. etc. Mind you, all of these ideas are rudimentary observations. A theory of how the things God says in His Holy Word and Science can both be factual. They are not meant to imply everything went down just so and in like manner, the dates of course are guesstimates, I wasn’t there.

On the Fifth day God created the Sea animals/birds and what not, were the Dinos created here or with the land animals? The fifth day lasted 300 million to 400 million years or so. On the Sixth Day around 300–350 Million BC God created the Land Animals. During this period of time the Dinosaurs became extinct about 70 Million years ago. Then during this “TIME PERIOD” (6TH DAY) God decided to create man 6000 or so years ago. Some might protest that men have been around much longer, but I offer this up, where is the data? Men are record keepers and we don’t have proof of men going back further. Now as per “MEN” being observed by scientists to have been around X Number of years, I never said Animal like men weren’t around, I stated Human Beings were created 6000 years ago, when God placed His spirit in us and thus we are immortal in that our souls can not die. We were at that point in time “Created in Gods Image”. The other fossils and bones mean nothing, because Scientists have no way of testing for God imparting His spirit into mankind and creating “Human Beings” with powerful intellects.

On the Seventh Day God rested, which only means He ceased Creating the Heavens/Earth/Mankind/Animals. So when we see stars and galaxies created today, it was ordered forth 13.7 Billion years ago. So its not necessarily either or. We need to start looking at things with an open mind, be we an atheist or a Christian.

P.S. Just something to think about. Einstein’s theory of relativity is in the very first verse of the bible, relatively speaking…LOL.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning (TIME) God created the heaven(SPACE) and the earth(MATTER).

Hello Revealing times!

I have a few questions for you:

Firstly, how do you factually know how the universe began (quantum fluctuations, dark age and whatnot)? "Because some scientists say so" is not the answer I am looking for, by the way.

Secondly, where do you get the dates? 13.7 billion years old for the universe, 400 millions for the dark age. Again, don't tell me some scientists said so. How do YOU know, and how would you demonstrate that to me?

Thirdly, put aside your very questionable interpretation of Genesis one (it just doesn't say what you make it say), the herbs, grass and trees were created BEFORE the sun and moon. Re-read those verses please. How did vegetation live on earth without any light for 400 million years? Moreover, only the earth has been created at this point, the stars and anything outside earth is created afterwards...

Finally, at what point does Genesis become a literal-historical account? You seem to believe in a literal Adam and Eve. If you do, then I wonder why you accept part of the secular worlview and and part of the Christian worldview... I just don't get why God would create the universe billions of years before life... What's the point for that? And where's the evidence?

Oh, one last one, how do you know it took millions of years for the stars to reach us? I mean, they were created after the earth...

I don't think I'm naive. Yet I believe the earth is no more than 10 000 years old. I think I am a very down to earth and educated person.

I appreciate your openmindedess, though, Revealing Times. I hope you will provide me with some answers.
 
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jhwatts

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I just don't get why God would create the universe billions of years before life... What's the point for that?

God himself said the earth is old

Psalms 104:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

The earth is ancient and since God is also infinite, why would we assume the earth isn't ancient and only thousands of years old? God creation is gigantic and on a massive scale, we see millions and billions of grains of sand on the beach, stars, insects, and blades of grass in the fields; so why do people choose to limit God and make his creation finite? Man understands thousands while God understands numbers and time itself on a much different scale as humans. By trying to bring God's concept of scale to a scale man can comprehend, man is effectively trying to make God more human and make humans more God like.

God is not finite like man and man should not try to make him so.
 
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Oseas

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If I have heard this once I have heard it a thousand times, and I just shake my head at these young earth arguments/hypothesis. Of course the earth was formed on the 2nd Day and Grass came forth on the 3rd day without any sun (impossible). The earth would be shot into outer space without the gravitational pull of the sun. That's not how Universes form, they form around the nubula which is a cloud of gas. The official way that it happens is bellow:

Current Understanding. A cloud collapses to form a star and disk. Planets form from this disk. According to our current understanding, a star and its planets form out of a collapsing cloud of dust and gas within a larger cloud called a nebula.

It took 40 million years for the earths crust to cool enough so that grass could grow, of course it was many years later that the first grasses actually were formed/created by God. The scriptures does not imply the Sun was created on the fourth day, most people, many, just misunderstand it.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night(KEY HERE); and let them be for signs, and for SEASONS for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day(SUN), and the lesser light to rule the night(MOON): he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

So what does everyone miss here? This is GOD setting the SEASONS. The Earth and Moon CRASHED VIOLENTLY into each other, the moon was supposed to be about as big as our earth, but the Earth in this violent crash gained much of the mass from the moon which was basically another planet, this is why we have a VERY UNIQUE/Large Moon compared to other moons and Planets, its VERY CLOSE and keeps us stable. In Gods POINT OF VIEW (This is His observation of creation) the SEASONS were Created by God placing the Moon in the prime position, it caused perfect seasons, it gave us DAY and NIGHT in regular order, without the moon the Earth would wobble and we would have violent weather, VERY VIOLENT, and our seasons would be crazy and our days might have no sun light at times and no darkness at times.

So God set the SEASONS and that's what the bible says in verse 14, the Sun was here when the Earth was created, the Earth could not come into existence without the Sun, its not possible, but the Moon gave us the LESSER NIGHT LIGHT (Reflection) and the day gave us the Daylight, but it took God placing the moon in the proper place to make all this work so that we have PROPER DAYS as we know them. God is not a God that has to create things OUT OF ORDER, God is a God of order, He doesn't need to superficially HURRY things up, God creates things and lives in the future with His creation as soon as its created. God did not create the Universe in 6 Days, that is just not a possibility IMHO, if anyone chooses to believe that more power to them, but I chose to search for the truth, so that we might reach those who look at our beliefs and say WHAT 6 Days? Because it just doesn't add up. And I have been a preacher for 30 years my friend.

It takes millions of years for sunlight to reach our earth, but of course God just sped things up. Even though He lives in the past, present and future all at once. I don't buy it, God Created the Universe over a 13.7 Billion year period, all the stats point to this, and even the Bible backs this up, that is why the EVENING was FIRST.....400 Million years of Darkness.

God Bless.

As you wrote, the theory says : >>>God Created the Universe over a 13.7 Billion year
period.<<<

Will be? Will be? The scientific world presumes the creation of the Earth or even Universe is around 14 billion years, do you know the why men think that? It because the resources to measure the age of the Earth or the Universe evaluation do not reach more than that, it has reached the limit. When the tiny man gets scientific equipment with a measuring capacity of 50, 100, 200 billion years or more, it will still be far from the truth to tell the age of the Universe. God is from Eternity to Eternity, if you start writing the number of Eternity years you will die much much time before, and no man will ever be able to describe the number of Eternity.
The Most High and Almighty God is unfathomable.


God bless
 
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Sapiens

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God himself said the earth is old

Psalms 104:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

The earth is ancient and since God is also infinite, why would we assume the earth isn't ancient and only thousands of years old? God creation is gigantic and on a massive scale, we see millions and billions of grains of sand on the beach, stars, insects, and blades of grass in the fields; so why do people choose to limit God and make his creation finite? Man understands thousands while God understands numbers and time itself on a much different scale as humans. By trying to bring God's concept of scale to a scale man can comprehend, man is effectively trying to make God more human and make humans more God like.

God is not finite like man and man should not try to make him so.

I'm not trying to make God anything less than what he is. Please don't accuse me so gratuitously.

Let me ask you something : when it says "old", how do you interpret that to be billions of years? Billions of years compared to infinity are as little as 6000 years... So there wouldn't be more meaning in creating 14 billion years or 6000 years ago. In any case, 6000 years is ancient enough to me.

God himself said "in 6 days I made the world" in Exodus 20:11, so I'm actually quoting God himself here... HE decided to make it this way. Moreover, you look at Jesus' genealogy in Luke and it goes back to Adam. How does that make sense if Adam is just a metaphor?

Not only that, but the number of generations recorded since Adam and each one's age is what we base the 6000 years idea on. Had it been longer than that, it would have been written.
 
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Papias

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Firstly, how do you factually know how the universe began (quantum fluctuations, dark age and whatnot)? "Because some scientists say so" is not the answer I am looking for, by the way.

First of all, the beginning of the Universe is irrelevant. Once could easily say that God started it miraculously 13.7 billion years ago and that the rest from there happened as science shows, and it would be consistent with all the evidence.

Secondly, we all rely on experts and scientists - just as you do yourself. It's perfectly correct to refer to the expert, since no one can be an expert in everything. You yourself do this.

How do you know that lead paint causes brain damage? Because some scientist says so.

Why do you wear sunscreen? Because some scientist says so.

Why do you believe that light travels at 3 E 8 m/s? Because some scientist says so.

Why do you think that things are made up of atoms? Because some scientist says so.

and so on. There are hundreds of other examples that come to mind.

It's pretty hypocritical for you to decide that you want to disagree with what science has found in one area, and accept other areas. After all, a literal reading of the Bible clearly shows a flat earth, under a hard dome, with the stars as little lights attached to to the dome. Science says that the stars are suns, millions of miles away. Why do we believe that? Because some scientist says so.

In fact, you rely on experts to know the very text of your Bible itself. How do you know it says anything at all? Because some language expert says so - unless you are fluent in ancient Hebrew and greek. Are you?

Secondly, where do you get the dates? 13.7 billion years old for the universe, 400 millions for the dark age. Again, don't tell me some scientists said so. How do YOU know, and how would you demonstrate that to me?

As shown above, relying on experts is fine. Much of this is by telling how far away things are by several different measurement methods, like parallax, and knowing how fast light travels. - But there are lots of other calculations to get at this age, all of which confirm the same age.

Finally, at what point does Genesis become a literal-historical account? You seem to believe in a literal Adam and Eve. If you do, then I wonder why you accept part of the secular worlview and and part of the Christian worldview... I just don't get why God would create the universe billions of years before life... What's the point for that? And where's the evidence?

The scriptures are deep and complex, and very often have symbolism mixed in with other genres. You yourself recognize that Genesis has symbolism (unless you reject the idea of original sin, and think that snakes actually talk, and that Satan was never in the garden), so the same question could be posed to you. Or to the gospels themselves, since some symbolism (like the good samaritan) is never identified as a parable, yet none of us has a problem with seeing the resurrection as history.

As for the evidence, there is so much evidence for our history that people spend their whole lives learning it and still don't learn it all. And, most scientists are believers, so that 13.7 billion year view is very the "Christian" view as well.

I don't think I'm naive. Yet I believe the earth is no more than 10 000 years old. I think I am a very down to earth and educated person.

Well, if you think you don't rely on experts in most areas of your life, I'm not so sure about your status.

6 Day , If there would be billion of years and earth would be 4b old or however it is assumed to be , then radioactive carbon used for carbon dating would reach equilibrium ( same amount come in as same amount fall apart ) , but since we know that it is still incrasing and is not in equilibrium . It is estimated that it would take 30 000 -50 000 years to take from clear atmosphere without radioactive carbon to make it to equilibrium .

What? First of all, radiocarbon in the atmosphere is in equilibrium, and secondly, it's not used to date things billions of years old anyway. You really have no understanding at all of this, do you?

Since we know that 4b year old earth literally can't exist , unless it lost atmosphere many times ,

What in the world are you talking about? There is tons of evidence showing that our earth is over 4 billion years old, and none of it suggests that the atmosphere is lost. I can't make heads nor tails of what you trying to say.

Also with 4b year old earth , moon would be literally inside of earth because it's leaving us like 4cm every year .

Let me guess. Are you repeating a line that you don't understand, which you haven't bothered to do the math yourself for? Because that's a common young earth creationist claim that is simply silly. The math is very simple, 5th grade arithmetic.

4 cm/yr X 4000000000 years = 16000000000 cm = 160000000 m = 160,000 km.

The moon is 384,000 km away, so there is plenty of room for that loss. Even 4 billion years ago, the moon would be less than halfway to the earth. FYI, even as far back as when the dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, the moon was only about 2% closer.

Current Understanding. A cloud collapses to form a star and disk. Planets form from this disk. According to our current understanding, a star and its planets form out of a collapsing cloud of dust and gas within a larger cloud called a nebula........ God Created the Universe over a 13.7 Billion year period, all the stats point to this, and even the Bible backs this up, that is why the EVENING was FIRST.....400 Million years of Darkness.
God Bless.

Thanks for all this. Interesting. There are several different interpretations that work, and I see a lot that works in your insightful description.

In Christ-

Papias
 
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Sapiens

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First of all, the beginning of the Universe is irrelevant. Once could easily say that God started it miraculously 13.7 billion years ago and that the rest from there happened as science shows, and it would be consistent with all the evidence.

Secondly, we all rely on experts and scientists - just as you do yourself. It's perfectly correct to refer to the expert, since no one can be an expert in everything. You yourself do this.

How do you know that lead paint causes brain damage? Because some scientist says so.

Why do you wear sunscreen? Because some scientist says so.

Why do you believe that light travels at 3 E 8 m/s? Because some scientist says so.

Why do you think that things are made up of atoms? Because some scientist says so.

and so on. There are hundreds of other examples that come to mind.

It's pretty hypocritical for you to decide that you want to disagree with what science has found in one area, and accept other areas. After all, a literal reading of the Bible clearly shows a flat earth, under a hard dome, with the stars as little lights attached to to the dome. Science says that the stars are suns, millions of miles away. Why do we believe that? Because some scientist says so.

In fact, you rely on experts to know the very text of your Bible itself. How do you know it says anything at all? Because some language expert says so - unless you are fluent in ancient Hebrew and greek. Are you?



As shown above, relying on experts is fine. Much of this is by telling how far away things are by several different measurement methods, like parallax, and knowing how fast light travels. - But there are lots of other calculations to get at this age, all of which confirm the same age.



The scriptures are deep and complex, and very often have symbolism mixed in with other genres. You yourself recognize that Genesis has symbolism (unless you reject the idea of original sin, and think that snakes actually talk, and that Satan was never in the garden), so the same question could be posed to you. Or to the gospels themselves, since some symbolism (like the good samaritan) is never identified as a parable, yet none of us has a problem with seeing the resurrection as history.

As for the evidence, there is so much evidence for our history that people spend their whole lives learning it and still don't learn it all. And, most scientists are believers, so that 13.7 billion year view is very the "Christian" view as well.



Well, if you think you don't rely on experts in most areas of your life, I'm not so sure about your status.



What? First of all, radiocarbon in the atmosphere is in equilibrium, and secondly, it's not used to date things billions of years old anyway. You really have no understanding at all of this, do you?



What in the world are you talking about? There is tons of evidence showing that our earth is over 4 billion years old, and none of it suggests that the atmosphere is lost. I can't make heads nor tails of what you trying to say.



Let me guess. Are you repeating a line that you don't understand, which you haven't bothered to do the math yourself for? Because that's a common young earth creationist claim that is simply silly. The math is very simple, 5th grade arithmetic.

4 cm/yr X 4000000000 years = 16000000000 cm = 160000000 m = 160,000 km.

The moon is 384,000 km away, so there is plenty of room for that loss. Even 4 billion years ago, the moon would be less than halfway to the earth. FYI, even as far back as when the dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, the moon was only about 2% closer.



Thanks for all this. Interesting. There are several different interpretations that work, and I see a lot that works in your insightful description.

In Christ-

Papias

"First of all, the beginning of the Universe is irrelevant. Once could easily say that God started it miraculously 13.7 billion years ago and that the rest from there happened as science shows, and it would be consistent with all the evidence."

Well, it's relevant relative to your desire to know the truth about how it really happened... I might agree that your belief could be compatible with the evidence, although not proven by them, but I have to say that it isn't consistent with Scriptures... Since I consider Scriptures to be one of my main sources of truth, I have to discard the humanly ideas and interpretations associated with the evidence and adopt the approach that still explains the evidence while being compatible with what I already know to be true: God's Word. And this point is relevant especially concerning life's creation, as it contains the fall of humankind, which is the reason Jesus had to come and die on the cross.

"Secondly, we all rely on experts and scientists - just as you do yourself. It's perfectly correct to refer to the expert, since no one can be an expert in everything. You yourself do this.

How do you know that lead paint causes brain damage? Because some scientist says so.

Why do you wear sunscreen? Because some scientist says so.

Why do you believe that light travels at 3 E 8 m/s? Because some scientist says so.

Why do you think that things are made up of atoms? Because some scientist says so.

and so on. There are hundreds of other examples that come to mind.

It's pretty hypocritical for you to decide that you want to disagree with what science has found in one area, and accept other areas. After all, a literal reading of the Bible clearly shows a flat earth, under a hard dome, with the stars as little lights attached to to the dome. Science says that the stars are suns, millions of miles away. Why do we believe that? Because some scientist says so.

In fact, you rely on experts to know the very text of your Bible itself. How do you know it says anything at all? Because some language expert says so - unless you are fluent in ancient Hebrew and greek. Are you?"

Of course, we can't be expert in everything. I myself am not. And I don't claim to be. I only talk about what I do know, and about I can in fact explain. That comment of yours is pretty irrelevant. If you don't know what you're talking about, then don't talk about it! The other guy I was responding to was speaking as though he knew his stuff. All I want is for him to substantiate his claims. Otherwise he should just say he doesn't really know, or that his claims are pure speculations on his part. It was pretty obvious that I was looking for an actual educated answer and explanation to my questions........

Where did those scientists get these ideas from? That's what I want to know.

"As shown above, relying on experts is fine. Much of this is by telling how far away things are by several different measurement methods, like parallax, and knowing how fast light travels. - But there are lots of other calculations to get at this age, all of which confirm the same age."

Ok, you named one method, that's good. And I have to take your word for it that there are many other calculations, and that they make sense?

"The scriptures are deep and complex, and very often have symbolism mixed in with other genres. You yourself recognize that Genesis has symbolism (unless you reject the idea of original sin, and think that snakes actually talk, and that Satan was never in the garden), so the same question could be posed to you. Or to the gospels themselves, since some symbolism (like the good samaritan) is never identified as a parable, yet none of us has a problem with seeing the resurrection as history."

Yes, that's true. And the Genesis account is historical one. That's my answer to the question.

"And, most scientists are believers, so that 13.7 billion year view is very the "Christian" view as well."

Wow. That's a very interesting claim. I have all the reasons to believe the contrary.

"Well, if you think you don't rely on experts in most areas of your life, I'm not so sure about your status."

Thank you for this very good example of an Ad Hominem Attack. I have done a lot of reasearch before adopting this position. Moreover, I have never said that expert opinions are of no value. Is this your first debate? How about you stay on topic and stop accusing me of things I have not said. All I was saying is that if someone knows their stuff, then they should show it, and if not, they should shut up.

"Science shows, Science says..."

Who is this "Science" you keep telling me about? Is it a friend of yours? Science is not a person, last time I checked. It cannot show or say anything. People do. And people are not perfect. When you talk about science as if it were an untouchable entity holding all truths in an absolute way, I find that very disconcerting.

There many Creationist scientists. They are experts too. They have done a lot more research than me, and are experts in relevant fields such as geology, astronomy, and biology. They have a lot more knowledge than me on the topic and have arrived to the same conclusion. (source: Creation Scientists)

So no, I don't disagree with science. I disagree with the scientists that make claims founded on wrong assumptions, that's all.
 
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Revealing Times

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Hello Revealing times!

I have a few questions for you:

Firstly, how do you factually know how the universe began (quantum fluctuations, dark age and whatnot)? "Because some scientists say so" is not the answer I am looking for, by the way.
Yes sir, glad to answer what I can to anyone. For starters the Wilkenson probe mapped the whole universe measuring the Microwave background of the universe. I will give hint at what the WMAP Satellite was/did and then move on from there so I can give you a little background on it. You can read whats boxed in by the pluses or skip it. Some will enjoy it I am sure. I will speak about Quantum Fluctuations below:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WMAP takes a direct image of the remnant glow of the early universe. This light has been losing energy and stretching out over the last 13.75 billion years, so by the time it reached the WMAP probe in its orbit between the Earth and the sun, the light was detectable as meters-long microwaves.

WMAP launched June 30, 2001, with the goal of sensing subtle temperature differences in the cosmic microwave background, the glow of the first atoms to release their radiation 380,000 years after the Big Bang. Since then, it has provided the most accurate measurement of the age of the universe, proved the existence of dark energy, showed that just 4 percent of the universe is made of ordinary matter and supported the idea that the universe inflated from sub-atomic scale to the size of a soccer ball in its first trillionth of a second. "It's gone way beyond what I imagined, things I didn't even think about at the time," said cosmologist Charles Bennettof Johns Hopkins University, WMAP's principal investigator.

Before WMAP, much of the universe's history was a blank book. Astronomers had some idea that the universe started with a Big Bang sometime between 8 billion and 20 billion years ago, and rapidly expanded after that. But they had very little notion of exactly when, or exactly how. "WMAP added an extraordinary amount in terms of nailing things down," Bennett said. Astronomers now know that the universe is 13.75 billion years old, give or take 0.11 billion years, a measurement that was recognized in the Guinness Book of World Records as the "most accurate measure of the age of the universe."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So the universe has been mapped out, its kind of like Radar seeing planes, its there, its really there, but its not exactly a picture per se. So when this WMAP showed the Darkness that the bible showed, it hit me, God is always correct, He is NEVER WRONG, we just can not in this present age understand his understandings in full. So the Picture in post 201, that is a real, mapped out picture of the universe, not just some hypothetical drawing. And everything in it matches what God said happened in Genesis. The NIGHT/Darkness was first, there was DARK AGES/Darkness upon the Deep, even where the Scriptures say and God moved upon the face of the water, and God said let there be Light.......Light has to be reflected off of something or the only light there is, is a Beam of light, thus I think water is what God uses to reflect light in the universe, that's just a hunch, but just look at the scriptures, God spoke about the waters, then commanded the light to come forth. We know that light has to be reflected to be seen, that is not in question. There would be beams of light, but it wouldn't light up its surroundings.

We have the Universe mapped out. We can also see light from Millions of light years away, so right off the bat we have to understand that Day in Genesis stands for something other than an Earth day, or God supernaturally created the world in a short span but made it to look like its old, and God doesn't need to do that since He is living in ALL TIME AT ONCE. He doesn't have to wait, and there is no need for God to change the order of things to deceive man, that just is not fathomable. So the universe testifies that it is Millions of years old, thus Billions of years old via all the information we have.

As per the Quantum Fluctuations, this Scientist says he can prove God exists in 5 Minutes, he he says the Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, instead of me telling you WHAT/WHO Quantum Fluctuations is allow his 5 Minute Video to tell you.


This is getting a little long so I will make another post.
 
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Revealing Times

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Secondly, where do you get the dates? 13.7 billion years old for the universe, 400 millions for the dark age. Again, don't tell me some scientists said so. How do YOU know, and how would you demonstrate that to me?

Again, 1. The Universe is mapped out. 2. We understand the speed of Light and we can see how old the universe is by looking at the Stars light/distance from earth.

Thirdly, put aside your very questionable interpretation of Genesis one (it just doesn't say what you make it say), the herbs, grass and trees were created BEFORE the sun and moon. Re-read those verses please. How did vegetation live on earth without any light for 400 million years? Moreover, only the earth has been created at this point, the stars and anything outside earth is created afterwards...

I have read them, you just don't quite seem to be grasping what is written there, (as I didn't for 30 years) the 400 million years happened first, then the stars started forming, and they formed for 9.2 BILLION YEARS and then the sun (a Star) came forth with its planets via a cloud of dust (Nebula) and thus our sun was created 9.2 Billion years after the Big Bang. So the 400 million years of Darkness happened way before our sun and earth was formed.

As per the the earth being created before the sun, that is NOT POSSIBLE, that comes from humans misunderstanding what God is speaking about in Gen. 1 when he says the SEASONS were created, I really don't see how people can actually believe that the sun Earthand moon weren't created at the same time via a Nubela. Stars are still forming, so we can see how it works in real time. God set the Seasons via the earth and moon. The moon has a dark side that never sees the light, if you lived there would there even be a sun? Yes, but it would be something you knew nothing about, and thus God choose not to give light unto that side of the moon, whereas at one time, before it became our moon, no doubt it received sunlight. So things changed when our earth and the moon clashed/hit each other. Google that.

Finally, at what point does Genesis become a literal-historical account? You seem to believe in a literal Adam and Eve. If you do, then I wonder why you accept part of the secular worlview and and part of the Christian worldview... I just don't get why God would create the universe billions of years before life... What's the point for that? And where's the evidence?

All of it is literal, the Hebrew language at that time had only 4000 or so words, we have 500,000 in the English language, so they used words for many things, and YOWM was used for a "period of time" among about 50 other things, that's just the way it was. The original meaning of Yowm is "To be Hot" so the first day was about the stars forming, the Evening (Darkness) and the Light (Stars).

Oh, one last one, how do you know it took millions of years for the stars to reach us? I mean, they were created after the earth...

I don't think I'm naive. Yet I believe the earth is no more than 10 000 years old. I think I am a very down to earth and educated person.

I appreciate your openmindedess, though, Revealing Times. I hope you will provide me with some answers.

The stars were not created after earth that is just a misunderstanding many have about what the Fourth Day means and how they wrote back in that day and time, it is not like our modern writings. Just look at at Genesis 2, they repeat the Creation of man, did God create man again? NO, of course not. And on day four God did not create the stars again. Here is how it went down, IMHO.

1. Big Bang 380,000 years of afterglow.
2. Stars start forming after 400 Million years of Darkness
3. After 9.2 Billion years the Sun and its Planets all formed at once.
4. More stars formed after the Sun and moon were created, and are still forming !!

The confusion with day four kind of amazes me. Its very apparent that God is speaking how He formed the Seasons, Days, Months and Years, its all about God dividing the Day from the Night. Its not about creating light again, its about dividing it proportionally, creating seasons

There is one part of your next to last question that I want to answer in another post....The why the Universe has to be the Size it is, thus the age it is etc. etc. I think it is amazing WHY God had to create the Universe the EXACT SIZE it is. Remember, 13.7 Billion years to you is a long time, to God, as soon as He created the Universe, He was living in its finished product.
 
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Revealing Times

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I just don't get why God would create the universe billions of years before life... What's the point for that? And where's the evidence?
This is by Richard Deem......All Credit to him, but this answers your question as to why the Universe is the Size it is, and thus the age it is.

Size of the Universe
The universe is immense in size. If God created the universe why would He make it so big and massive? It turns out that the laws of physics require the universe to be the size it is in order for stars and galaxies (and humans) to exist.....................by Rich Deem

Size of the Universe: Isn't it Too Large to Have Been Created by God for Humanity?

The large size of the universe is often said to be an argument against the existence of the God of Christianity. If the purpose of God were to create a place for humans to live, why didn't God just create one star and one planet? Isn't the existence of trillions of galaxies a complete waste? Doesn't the huge size and mass of the universe suggest that humans are just a cosmic accident among the numerous habitable planets?

God's purpose for the universe
The argument that the universe is too large to have been created by God implies a knowledge of God's purposes in creating the universe. Skeptics tend to assume that Christianity claims that the universe was created to give humans a nice place to live. What does a universe look like that requires free will choice? First, there is a requirement for cause and effect. Since we live in such a universe, we tend to assume that cause and effect is a given. However, time, a necessary component of cause and effect, is a construct of this universe, and began at the initiation of the Big bang. So, the immense size of the universe demonstrates God's power and authority.

Universe size matters!
Besides spiritual reasons, there are also physical constraints on the minimum (and maximum) mass of the universe. The universe could not have been much smaller than it is in order for nuclear fusion to have occurred during the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang. Without this brief period of nucleosynthesis, the early universe would have consisted entirely of hydrogen. Without helium (comprising ~24% of the matter in the universe), heavy element production in stars is not possible, so that no rocky planets would have ever existed in the entire history of the universe.

Likewise, the universe could not have been a much more massive than it is, or life would not have been possible. If the universe were just one part in 10/59 more massive, the universe would have collapsed before life was possible. Since there are only 10/80 baryons in the universe, this means that an addition of just 10/21 baryons (at 1.67x10−27 kg/baryon equals 1.7 mg of matter - equal to a GRAIN OF SAIND) would have made life impossible! The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.

One more Grain of Sand and our Universe would have collapsed. The Universe is the exact size it needs to be and thus it needs to be 13.7 Billion years old, you are looking at things in our construct of "space time", God is not subject to those constraints, he lives in all time at once. So Go did not have to wait on the universe to be created, He spoke it and lived in its finished product at the same time.

God is living in heaven with those of us in the future right now. God is the Beginning and the End all at once. We can't look at creation through our perspective, Creation is told via Gods perspective.
 
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Revealing Times

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Thanks for all this. Interesting. There are several different interpretations that work, and I see a lot that works in your insightful description.

In Christ-
Thanks, I am more of a Prophecy guy, I have studied who the Seven Headed Beast is, where the Anti-Christ is born, who Babylon and the Harlot is etc. etc. and in so doing I have learned to use the same logical deduction type research to tackle the creation. Mind you I am not claiming this is 100 percent correct, I just think this is the basic solution to problems that men on both sides of the equation seem to have hangups on. My thought was if both have problems with each other, then both are probably wrong to some degree. I know Atheists are wrong, and I know 6000 year old young earth guys are wrong (IMHO), so the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
 
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Oseas

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If I have heard this once I have heard it a thousand times, and I just shake my head at these young earth arguments/hypothesis. Of course the earth was formed on the 2nd Day and Grass came forth on the 3rd day without any sun (impossible). The earth would be shot into outer space without the gravitational pull of the sun. That's not how Universes form, they form around the nubula which is a cloud of gas. The official way that it happens is bellow:

Current Understanding. A cloud collapses to form a star and disk. Planets form from this disk. According to our current understanding, a star and its planets form out of a collapsing cloud of dust and gas within a larger cloud called a nebula.

It took 40 million years for the earths crust to cool enough so that grass could grow, of course it was many years later that the first grasses actually were formed/created by God. The scriptures does not imply the Sun was created on the fourth day, most people, many, just misunderstand it.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night(KEY HERE); and let them be for signs, and for SEASONS for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day(SUN), and the lesser light to rule the night(MOON): he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

So what does everyone miss here? This is GOD setting the SEASONS. The Earth and Moon CRASHED VIOLENTLY into each other, the moon was supposed to be about as big as our earth, but the Earth in this violent crash gained much of the mass from the moon which was basically another planet, this is why we have a VERY UNIQUE/Large Moon compared to other moons and Planets, its VERY CLOSE and keeps us stable. In Gods POINT OF VIEW (This is His observation of creation) the SEASONS were Created by God placing the Moon in the prime position, it caused perfect seasons, it gave us DAY and NIGHT in regular order, without the moon the Earth would wobble and we would have violent weather, VERY VIOLENT, and our seasons would be crazy and our days might have no sun light at times and no darkness at times.

So God set the SEASONS and that's what the bible says in verse 14, the Sun was here when the Earth was created, the Earth could not come into existence without the Sun, its not possible, but the Moon gave us the LESSER NIGHT LIGHT (Reflection) and the day gave us the Daylight, but it took God placing the moon in the proper place to make all this work so that we have PROPER DAYS as we know them. God is not a God that has to create things OUT OF ORDER, God is a God of order, He doesn't need to superficially HURRY things up, God creates things and lives in the future with His creation as soon as its created. God did not create the Universe in 6 Days, that is just not a possibility IMHO, if anyone chooses to believe that more power to them, but I chose to search for the truth, so that we might reach those who look at our beliefs and say WHAT 6 Days? Because it just doesn't add up. And I have been a preacher for 30 years my friend.

It takes millions of years for sunlight to reach our earth, but of course God just sped things up. Even though He lives in the past, present and future all at once. I don't buy it, God Created the Universe over a 13.7 Billion year period, all the stats point to this, and even the Bible backs this up, that is why the EVENING was FIRST.....400 Million years of Darkness.

God Bless.
The material things are figures of heavenly things.

In the fourth Day of God's week were created TWO great lights; the GREATER Light to rule the Day, and the LESSER light to rule the night: and He made the STARS also.

As we can see, were created TWO GREATER LIGHTS, but one was lesser than the other, The GREATER Light was/is the person of JESUS (the Word was made flesh in the fourth Day) and the LESSER Light was/is the person of Holy Spirit, they both were "created" in the fourth Day of GOD's week, remembering that one day is with the LORD as a thousand years as said Moses (Psalms 90:v.4). JESUS came around 4.000 years after Adam, the fourth day or 2.000 years ago conform Christian Calendar. So, the sixth Day ended recently and we are living exactly in the beginning of the first century of the seventh and LAST Day or seventh and LAST millennium, the Millennium of Christ, the Millennium of Truth, and the Millennium of Judgment, and the Millennium of Vengeance, the Day of the Lord. The most High and Almighty God has just entered in His rest as He planned since the beginning (6.000 years ago), and JESUS is sat on His throne to judge all nations, the Judgment Seat of Christ. And will be given Him Dominion, and Glory, and A kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which will not pass away, and His kingdom that which will not be destroyed.

The KINGDOMS of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev.11:v.15

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev. 12.v.12

Who is worth to enter in the kingdom of God, which will be established in this beginning of the first century of the seventh and last millennium, the millennium of Christ?Luke 20:35-36

Now unto the King Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, the only wise God, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1Ti.1:17

 
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Oseas

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This is by Richard Deem......All Credit to him, but this answers your question as to why the Universe is the Size it is, and thus the age it is.

Size of the Universe
The universe is immense in size. If God created the universe why would He make it so big and massive? It turns out that the laws of physics require the universe to be the size it is in order for stars and galaxies (and humans) to exist.....................by Rich Deem

Size of the Universe: Isn't it Too Large to Have Been Created by God for Humanity?

The large size of the universe is often said to be an argument against the existence of the God of Christianity. If the purpose of God were to create a place for humans to live, why didn't God just create one star and one planet? Isn't the existence of trillions of galaxies a complete waste? Doesn't the huge size and mass of the universe suggest that humans are just a cosmic accident among the numerous habitable planets?

God's purpose for the universe
The argument that the universe is too large to have been created by God implies a knowledge of God's purposes in creating the universe. Skeptics tend to assume that Christianity claims that the universe was created to give humans a nice place to live. What does a universe look like that requires free will choice? First, there is a requirement for cause and effect. Since we live in such a universe, we tend to assume that cause and effect is a given. However, time, a necessary component of cause and effect, is a construct of this universe, and began at the initiation of the Big bang. So, the immense size of the universe demonstrates God's power and authority.

Universe size matters!
Besides spiritual reasons, there are also physical constraints on the minimum (and maximum) mass of the universe. The universe could not have been much smaller than it is in order for nuclear fusion to have occurred during the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang. Without this brief period of nucleosynthesis, the early universe would have consisted entirely of hydrogen. Without helium (comprising ~24% of the matter in the universe), heavy element production in stars is not possible, so that no rocky planets would have ever existed in the entire history of the universe.

Likewise, the universe could not have been a much more massive than it is, or life would not have been possible. If the universe were just one part in 10/59 more massive, the universe would have collapsed before life was possible. Since there are only 10/80 baryons in the universe, this means that an addition of just 10/21 baryons (at 1.67x10−27 kg/baryon equals 1.7 mg of matter - equal to a GRAIN OF SAIND) would have made life impossible! The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.

One more Grain of Sand and our Universe would have collapsed. The Universe is the exact size it needs to be and thus it needs to be 13.7 Billion years old, you are looking at things in our construct of "space time", God is not subject to those constraints, he lives in all time at once. So Go did not have to wait on the universe to be created, He spoke it and lived in its finished product at the same time.

God is living in heaven with those of us in the future right now. God is the Beginning and the End all at once. We can't look at creation through our perspective, Creation is told via Gods perspective.
You wrote: >>>God is living in heaven with those of us in the future right now. God is the Beginning and the End all at once. We can't look at creation through our perspective, Creation is told via God's perspective.<<<

Let me remember to you that JESUS is the Beginning and the End, the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega. The Most High and Almighty God, He has not beginning, neither ending, He is from Eternity to Eternity. Heaven is not the physical space of the Universe (sky), but celestial regions/places in Christ JESUS (Eph.1:v.3). There are several heavens, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and the heaven of heavens. Furthermore, Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen WERE NOT MADE of things which do appear. In the beginning (IN JESUS) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ALL THINGS were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1&3)

The Most High and Almighty God is in the heaven of the heavens, but heaven is not the physical space of the Universe, but celestial places in Christ JESUS. The question is: Where do you think is the heaven of the heavens, if the Most High and Almighty "God is sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain,(the 1st,2nd,3rd), and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in"? Isaiah 40:v.21to23
 
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Oseas

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Yes sir, glad to answer what can to anyone. For starters the Wilkenson probe mapped the whole universe measuring the Microwave background of the universe. I will give hint at what the WMAP Satellite was/did and then move on from there so I can give you a little background on it. You can read whats boxed in by the pluses or skip it. Some will enjoy it I am sure. I will speak about Quantum Fluctuations below:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WMAP takes a direct image of the remnant glow of the early universe. This light has been losing energy and stretching out over the last 13.75 billion years, so by the time it reached the WMAP probe in its orbit between the Earth and the sun, the light was detectable as meters-long microwaves.

WMAP launched June 30, 2001, with the goal of sensing subtle temperature differences in the cosmic microwave background, the glow of the first atoms to release their radiation 380,000 years after the Big Bang. Since then, it has provided the most accurate measurement of the age of the universe, proved the existence of dark energy, showed that just 4 percent of the universe is made of ordinary matter and supported the idea that the universe inflated from sub-atomic scale to the size of a soccer ball in its first trillionth of a second. "It's gone way beyond what I imagined, things I didn't even think about at the time," said cosmologist Charles Bennettof Johns Hopkins University, WMAP's principal investigator.

Before WMAP, much of the universe's history was a blank book. Astronomers had some idea that the universe started with a Big Bang sometime between 8 billion and 20 billion years ago, and rapidly expanded after that. But they had very little notion of exactly when, or exactly how. "WMAP added an extraordinary amount in terms of nailing things down," Bennett said. Astronomers now know that the universe is 13.75 billion years old, give or take 0.11 billion years, a measurement that was recognized in the Guinness Book of World Records as the "most accurate measure of the age of the universe."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So the universe has been mapped out, its kind of like Radar seeing planes, its there, its really there, but its not exactly a picture per se. So when this WMAP showed the Darkness that the bible showed, it hit me, God is always correct, He is NEVER WRONG, we just can not in this present age understand his understandings in full. So the Picture in post 201, that is a real, mapped out picture of the universe, not just some hypothetical drawing. And everything in it matches what God said happened in Genesis. The NIGHT/Darkness was first, there was DARK AGES/Darkness upon the Deep, even where the Scriptures say and God moved upon the face of the water, and God said let there be Light.......Light has to be reflected off of something or the only light there is is a Beam of light, thus I think water is what God uses to reflect light in the universe, that just a hunch, but just look at the scriptures, God spoke about the waters, then commanded the light to come forth. We know that light has to be reflected to be seen, that is not in question. There would be beams of light, but it wouldn't light up its surroundings.

We have the Universe mapped out. We can also see light from Millions of light years away, so right of the bat we have to understand that Day in Genesis stands for something other than an Earth day, or God supernaturally created the world in a short span but made it to look like its old, and God doesn't need to do that since He is living in ALL TIME AT ONCE. He doesn't have to wait, and there is no need for God to change the order of things to deceive man, that just is not fathomable. So the universe testifies that is is Millions of years old, thus Billions of years old via all the information we have.

As per the Quantum Fluctuations, this Scientist says he can prove God exists in 5 Minutes, he he says the Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, instead of me telling you WHAT/WHO Quantum Fluctuations is allow his 5 Minute Video to tell you.


This is getting a little long so I will make another post.

And As per the Quantum Fluctuations, this Scientist says he can prove God exists in 5 Minutes, he he says the Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, instead of me telling you WHAT/WHO Quantum Fluctuations is allow his 5 Minute Video to tell you.

And Job, millennia before Christ, was the first to say that the Earth is in space as it is suspended over nothing.

And the prophet Isaiah was the first to say the Earth is round. (Isaiah 40:v.22 (700yrs BC)
 
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I'm not trying to make God anything less than what he is. Please don't accuse me so gratuitously.

Let me ask you something : when it says "old", how do you interpret that to be billions of years? Billions of years compared to infinity are as little as 6000 years... So there wouldn't be more meaning in creating 14 billion years or 6000 years ago. In any case, 6000 years is ancient enough to me.

God himself said "in 6 days I made the world" in Exodus 20:11, so I'm actually quoting God himself here... HE decided to make it this way. Moreover, you look at Jesus' genealogy in Luke and it goes back to Adam. How does that make sense if Adam is just a metaphor?

Not only that, but the number of generations recorded since Adam and each one's age is what we base the 6000 years idea on. Had it been longer than that, it would have been written.

Since God is infinite and the age of his creation is only 6000 years, then the time passed would appear to only be a fraction of a second to Him. He however defined it as "old". It doesn't seem right, that to him the time that has passed was only a small fraction of time but yet he called it "old".

You are correct in looking at the genealogy of Christ in Luke. When we look at the genealogy we see that Adam was a son of God. Lets take a quick look at Genesis 6:2. What do we see that looks familiar in this verse? We see the sons of God. These are the generations from Genesis 5. Genesis 5 states that "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him"

When in the creation narrative did God make man in his likeness? This occurred in Genesis 1:26. Closer inspection should be made in Genesis 1. Notice on many occasions throughout Genesis 1 he used the language to declare the things of this creation being "after his kind".

Lets now take a look at what creatures got on the ark.

Genesis 7: (14-15) 14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

We see that these in verse 14 are "after his kind". God felt it was important enough to show that there is another group of creatures getting on the ark. We see that this group was identified by "wherein is the breath of life". Where have we heard in the creation narrative "the breath of life" ? In Genesis 2:7. We see this seems to indicate that the group that God stated that those "wherein is the breath of life" was made from the earth and the dust of the earth.

Here is a interesting piece of scripture in Ecclesiastes we should keep in mind.

Ecclesiastes 3: (18-21) 18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

The female offspring of those of the dust are the daughters of men (Genesis 6:2) and male are the sons of men. We now see what the union in Genesis 6 consisted of the sons of God(made in Gods Likeness) and the daughters of men(made of the dust).

Lets see, if I had a creation that purposely disobeyed me and I cursed them (Genesis 3:17). I could make a new creation in my likeness. I could rid the earth of them by a flood

Genesis 6:7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

We see however only those in Gods likeness exited the ark.

Genesis 8:19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

But wait, those of the "wherein is the breath of life" entered the ark. Why didn't they get off? The answer is in Genesis 6:21.

Those made from the dust of the earth are now gone and God said he will not curse the earth again.

Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

I said all of that to show that those of the dust are made during the "generations of the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 2:4) and this creation occurred then, Genesis 1:1 and they are not a part of the creation week spoke about in Exodus. The creation week spoke about in Exodus corresponds to the generations of "in the likeness of God made he him" .(Genesis 1:2 - Genesis 2:3).

The "generations of the heavens and the earth" occurred in earths distant past before the deep was placed on the earth in Genesis 1:2. There is a time gap of a unknown time span before Genesis 1:2.
 
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