Friend-of-Jesus
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I think, heaven is a lie to distract from being good Christians here... Jesus was teaching about how to be now, not in a million years from now.
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Would you still be a Christian without the incentive of Heaven?
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I think, heaven is a lie to distract from being good Christians here... Jesus was teaching about how to be now, not in a million years from now.
lesliedellow
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Protestant theology, at least, makes it clear that heaven is not a reward for good works. Therefore, love of neighbour cannot be motivated by the promise of a heavenly reward.
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lesliedellow
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Theodiskaz
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I read the OP and just a few of the comments, so forgive me if someone already mentioned this. The Apostle Paul, being inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote:
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
Why would Paul say such a thing?
Because Jesus calls us to take up our cross. The call to follow Christ is a call to suffer for Him and for the gospel. It only makes sense because there is reward after this life.
Perhaps some Americans have a hard time relating to this.
I was blessed with the opportunity to live in a Muslim majority nation for 14 years. I still love that nation, its people, and even things like its food and scenery. While there, we had the opportunity to share the gospel with Muslims.
One of the first Muslims whom we saw come to Christ was a young lady I call Lily (not her real name). After coming to Christ her family tricked her into coming back to her home village by telling her that her mother was sick. They then imprisoned her in her own home and beat her to try to force her to renounce Christ. We prayed day and night for her for over nine months. Her family finally allowed her to return to our city. She cautiously visited our home one time. Then we never saw her again. (More of this story is told on my blog, here.)
Perhaps some Christians in America enjoy the friendships and good feelings of Christianity so much that they would stay a Christian even if there was no resurrection and no eternal life with rewards. But would you try to win a Muslim to the Christian faith who is likely to face many types of suffering? We did. And after Lily we kept sharing the love and truth of Christ. I believe it is worth it precisely because I believe the Lord's promise of eternal life.
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
Why would Paul say such a thing?
Because Jesus calls us to take up our cross. The call to follow Christ is a call to suffer for Him and for the gospel. It only makes sense because there is reward after this life.
Perhaps some Americans have a hard time relating to this.
I was blessed with the opportunity to live in a Muslim majority nation for 14 years. I still love that nation, its people, and even things like its food and scenery. While there, we had the opportunity to share the gospel with Muslims.
One of the first Muslims whom we saw come to Christ was a young lady I call Lily (not her real name). After coming to Christ her family tricked her into coming back to her home village by telling her that her mother was sick. They then imprisoned her in her own home and beat her to try to force her to renounce Christ. We prayed day and night for her for over nine months. Her family finally allowed her to return to our city. She cautiously visited our home one time. Then we never saw her again. (More of this story is told on my blog, here.)
Perhaps some Christians in America enjoy the friendships and good feelings of Christianity so much that they would stay a Christian even if there was no resurrection and no eternal life with rewards. But would you try to win a Muslim to the Christian faith who is likely to face many types of suffering? We did. And after Lily we kept sharing the love and truth of Christ. I believe it is worth it precisely because I believe the Lord's promise of eternal life.
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MonstersvsMartyrs
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I have pondered that question before, too. And I concluded that I wouldn't do it, unless God wanted me to, because I love God too much, and I'd rather be with Him.
Paul said in Romans 9:3, "For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race"
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MonstersvsMartyrs
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I have thought this before, too: Perhaps the reason God doesn't make His existence clear to us is precisely because He doesn't want people to seek Him out of impure motives, but because we love Him.
Here's another question I've thought about: If you knew God didn't exist, would you still be a Christian? For me when I was young, the answer was absolutely not, I'd do whatever I wanted. Now that I'm older I am in love with God's ways and see the wisdom in them. I'd still follow them even if there was no God.
Here's another question I've thought about: If you knew God didn't exist, would you still be a Christian? For me when I was young, the answer was absolutely not, I'd do whatever I wanted. Now that I'm older I am in love with God's ways and see the wisdom in them. I'd still follow them even if there was no God.
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MonstersvsMartyrs
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Luke 11
11“Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Matthew 26:35
But Peter declared, "Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you." And all the other disciples said the same.
We boast of our love for God now, but if we ever were in such a situation... I'd pray for the strength to go through with it.
I don't see why people are so outraged by the question though. It's just hypothetical.
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Good thread and good point.
Personally I do not know, and do not wish to know, that I am saved and/or going to heaven. My ego nature would grab that and start boasting about it, even in the most subtle ways. As soon as I do that, I am a lost sheep again.
My focus is in loving the Love that loves me. I am in love with the Love of God in me. That is all I care about. Anything else is a distraction for me. If there is no heaven, or if there is a hell, I will not care as long as I can keep my love for God with me.
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God is comprised by the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (as we all agreed to be permitted into this forum).
The three are of one Substance, but they are three individual Personalities.
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I'm not going to get off into that debate with you here, and I'd suggest you read the rules and requirements of the forum before you get off into that debate.
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thetruth0
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I am not debating. I am telling you the truth.
THE TRINITY
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
... even his eternal power and Godhead... Water was made to define this part, like water can be linked to life, also the life giving word of GOD can be likened to dews, which is the same water.
Water can be in 3 different states - Liquid, Solid and Gas. The same water but different characteristics and potentials. This character of water can be likened to the GOD in defining HIS different mode of operations.
The liquid water can be likened to GOD the FATHER who is ever present in heaven, who does not leave HIS absence in the heavens, where HE is the source of light. When HE wants to visit a world and be tangible, HE proceeds from the FATHER as GOD the Son (as the GOD in HIS capital size cannot enter a world, hence HE is indescribable in size), so that HE can fit into the world, appear and interact also with the citizens of that works in a size they can relate to. That is the Melchizedek that Abraham saw, that is Jesus Christ (H.P). This state can be likened to the solid water. Like solid water(ice block), in this state, HE has a limited presence and ability (my Father is greater than I am, referring to HIS Fatherhood state). But when the GOD wants to visit a thousand places at the same time and be fully operational, HE proceeds as the Most Holy Spirit, this state can be likened to the gaseous water. The same GOD, 3 different states of operations, 3 different characteristics, same potency and strength.
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thetruth0
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I have asked you to tell me who HIS father is that is a man? Otherwise, the term identity of the Son of Man cannot be attributed to HIM, and should never be attributed to HIM as HE is the Creator of Man.
Man is Lord Adam H.E, the First Man to be created by the GOD. The Only Man to have his body coupled by the GOD. The Son of Man is therefore Lord Adam H.E son, which is the Prophet, Elijah.
the GOD is the Spirit of Prophecy. HE never called HIMSELF the Son of GOD, nor did HE call HIMSELF the Son of Man. HE always referred to them a person, not as HIM. The reason why is because HE came to the earth in the shoes of the Son of GOD (for HE is not HIS own Son) and in the shoes of the Son of Man.
Ezekiel is called the Son of Man in Ezekiel 37. Would you attribute the status of a Prophet to the GOD of Creation? the one who Made that Prophet? It is the Son of Man, Elijah, who is the one that will turn the hearts of the fathers back to their children, and turn the hearts of the children to their fathers. It is he, that will speak only what he hears. It is he, that every soul which does not hearken unto the words of his, will be destroyed of the face of the earth. It is he, that is the forerunner, the one who will usher in the return of the very GOD the Son, just as the 2nd Elijah, John the Baptist ushered in the very GOD the Son, by, making the brides way straight for the LORD, which is preparing a bride without spots, blemishes or wrinkles. It is he, that will restore all things.
Malachi 4:4-6, Acts 3:19-23, John 16:12-15, Eph 5:24, Matt 17:11, Rev 10:7
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SPF
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You seem like a sincere guy. In fact, reading what you write reminds me of Charles Russell, who founded the Jehovah's Witness cult. I really believe that had he had someone in his life who was able to mentor and disciple him that he wouldn't have gone down the road of heresy.
I wonder if you're even aware that the theology you're putting forth is considered heresy, and has already been dealt with by the Church, literally over 1,000 years ago.
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