Is Christianity Bad News for Women?

PloverWing said:

The same church that taught me that God exists, and that we are saved through the work of Jesus, also taught me that wives should be subject to their husbands and that women should not hold positions of authority in the church. It took me forever to sort this out, maybe the first 35 or 40 years of my life. Scripture, as you must know, is ambiguous; we have "love your neighbor" and "in Christ there is...neither male nor female", but we also have all those weapons of Scripture that Zoii put in her wonderful drawing. Can you understand what it's like to grow up in a Christian church that teaches God's love and female submission side by side, for years and years?

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Zoii said:

Its fortunate that you or those you know have not suffered the effects of how some men view their rights biblically. It sounds like you know no woman who had been a victim of domestic violence or sexual assault, and particularly not been exposed to comments within the church that may hide or even encourage those issues. Thats great... I have though.

It sounds like you do not believe women should be silent, that women should lead as well as men, and that it includes places such as marriage and within the church. Is that correct? If so then perhaps youre at odds with your comments if you think women who are victims are just whiney weaklings

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Paidiske said:

Paidiske is fine.

That's the whole point of this area; providing a space where we can dig into the resources which will enable a vibrant and well-integrated faith for all.

But describing women as victims, doormats, weak or dependent (or alternatively obnoxious) is incredibly hurtful or offensive when we know how many women literally die, are beaten, are abused emotionally, financially and spiritually; and still find in Christ the strength, the dignity and the courage to persevere, and to seek to build others up.

We are not here because we are victims; we are here because we are survivors; because we stand valiant and unconquered in the face of those who would trample us underfoot, and because we want to build a church and a world which is better, gentler, kinder, to those who come after us.

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Please refrain from belittling us any further.

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Paidiske said:

This is an oversimplification. Nobody "allows" themselves to be broken by free and conscious choice (in this context). People are deceived, manipulated, controlled, have powerful forces arrayed against them; and people are overwhelmed, crushed, broken by those forces.

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Yes, God can work through that and healing can come after that, but it's not a simple matter of suggesting that women just need a bit more starch in their bonnets and all will be well.

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Victory-N-Christ said:

Yes.I can understand that..but at the same time if women buy into that kind of talk it defeats them.My mom was in a church like that but once she started studying scripture for herself she saw things differently. Jesus liberates women. Scripture isn't supposed to oppress anyone.That's a trick of the adversary.
That's why it's important for women to study for themselves.

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Victory-N-Christ said:

If we look deeply at Judges 4 ,remember Deborah had a husband but when it came down to her duties as judge and prophetess she put God first.

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mkgal1 said:

"Jesus liberates women".....that's true....but His church needs to act within that reality in order for it to actually be lived out, and *that* is where it seems to fall apart so often.

It's more than just "talk" that's defeating women.....it's a problem of an imbalance of power (and what is perceived as valuable). For instance.....often what happens in cases of domestic abuse in the church (conservative protestant churches, anyway) is that the woman is encouraged to "submit properly" in order to "win him over". Let's just say that a woman in that situation then did as you suggested (she did her own reading of Scripture.....and was willing to open her mind to new ideas as to what's meant by certain passages) and she discovers that by "submitting properly" the way she's been counseled is enabling sin and won't really encourage any sort of change (it may even make her husband *more* prideful and entitled)--so she decides to separate. Instead of being a support to her.....her church family often shuns her in her decision. If she served in any sort of ministry.....she's often asked to step down (meanwhile....her husband is getting support and consolation for being "left"--and if he's serving in ministry, there's no change in his position). Sure....women can ignore all that and go alone and do the best thing for her and her family.....but wouldn't it be even *better* if the church were to play a part in a possible genuine restoration of the family? Wouldn't that be best for *everyone* (if possible)?

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Victory-N-Christ said:

What causes an imbalance is when people try to use scripture to oppress.
I get that.
And I get what you're saying as well but I'll refrain from posting any thing else.
Thank you for talking with me.
I honestly appreciate it.
Peace

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article said:

Beth Moore Clearly Violates Biblical Boundaries
In Paul’s letter to Timothy, he writes, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet” (1 Tim. 2:12 ). Paul forbids women from teaching and having authority over men. Therefore, the pattern of the early church was established by Christ who chose twelve men to be His inner circle and then entrusted the early church to their oversight. From that point forward (post Acts 6), God raised up a plurality of men to serve as deacons who would serve alongside the plurality of men who would serve as elders.

In short, we don’t see God calling, equipping, and endorsing women to teach the Bible in the context of the church (or beyond in places such as conferences). This position rooted in creation and upheld by a distinctive position known as complementarianism is not only consistent with Scripture, but in tandem with the early church’s design. Beth Moore violates this early church pattern and most importantly – the text of Scripture found in 1 Timothy 2:12 . As she appears on the platform with an open Bible, she preaches the Word to thousands of men who are in attendance at the Passion conference and other venues where she’s invited to speak. Not only is this her personal pattern of ministry, but she likewise condones other women who preach to men as she was in attendance at Joel Osteen’s church to hear her friend Christine Caine when she preached at Lakewood.

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other article said:

You may ask, "What's so remarkable about that?" This meeting, held on July 26, was unique because the speaker was a Southern Baptist—and a woman. Yet her message was so convicting and so saturated in the Holy Spirit that people ran to the stage even though she didn't even invite people to the altar.

The woman was author and popular women's speaker Beth Moore, and the occasion was the 28th General Conference of the International Pentecostal Holiness Church. Leaders from the Assemblies of God, the Church of God and Nigeria's Redeemed Christian Church of God were in attendance, along with thousands of Pentecostals from all over the world.

Moore based her message on Jeremiah 12:5: "If you have run with the footmen, and they have wearied you, then how can you contend with horses?" Without a tinge of self-righteousness or condemnation, Moore lamented the powerless state of the modern church and called us back to the raw authenticity of New Testament faith.

"We are settling for woefully less than what Jesus promised us," said Moore. "I read my New Testament over and over. I'm not seeing what He promised. I'm unsettled and unsatisfied."

She added: "I want holy fire!"

I don't know what is more fascinating—that a Baptist challenged Pentecostals to embrace Pentecostal fire or that a woman who is not supposed to preach to men in her own denomination brought male pastors to their knees in repentance.~How Beth Moore Is Calling Down Pentecostal Fire

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Paidiske said:

We are not here because we are victims; we are here because we are survivors; because we stand valiant and unconquered in the face of those who would trample us underfoot, and because we want to build a church and a world which is better, gentler, kinder, to those who come after us.

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mkgal1 said:

This is an example of how there're attempts being made to silence one particular voice:

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Beth Moore Clearly Violates Biblical Boundaries
In Paul’s letter to Timothy, he writes, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet” (1 Tim. 2:12).

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Dave-W said:

I completely agree. Recovery from that can be very difficult.

That is just another version of what us men tell other men: "man up." "you can take anything." "stop acting like a baby." (those are the nicer ones)

It actually works for some men, by just making them hard-hearted, unemotional and sometimes violent. The rest of us - it does not work that well.

A previous poster said that it worked for "strong women." I would submit that the strength is in the flesh (rather than in God's Spirit and grace) and makes them just as hard hearted and unemotional as the men who go that route.

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Paidiske said:

Paidiske is fine.

That's the whole point of this area; providing a space where we can dig into the resources which will enable a vibrant and well-integrated faith for all.

But describing women as victims, doormats, weak or dependent (or alternatively obnoxious) is incredibly hurtful or offensive when we know how many women literally die, are beaten, are abused emotionally, financially and spiritually; and still find in Christ the strength, the dignity and the courage to persevere, and to seek to build others up.

We are not here because we are victims; we are here because we are survivors; because we stand valiant and unconquered in the face of those who would trample us underfoot, and because we want to build a church and a world which is better, gentler, kinder, to those who come after us.

View attachment 204239

Please refrain from belittling us any further.

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Victory-N-Christ said:

Instead of "strong" women I submit this instead "women who are confident of their calling in whatever ministry they have inspite of what the nay sayers are saying".

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JoeP222w said:

To the original question, no. If one thinks that forgiveness and eternal life for women is bad, they are not thinking rationally.

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Paidiske said:

Zoii, I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.

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