Is Ezekiel 38 imminent?

Douggg said:

James, I think you are misinterpreting the bands of Gomer. By which, you are extending Gomer to be most of the world (you left out South America as the Europeans flowed west to populate that continent as well).

It doesn't even make sense that Europe, the United States, and the West ally with the muslim terrorist countries like Iran to attack Israel. And why would the entire global armies need to band together attack Israel? The muslim countries, on the other hand, have an agenda to destroy Israel. And they need to band together, because since 1948, Israel has defeated them in every war.

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It the first place, whether or not a prophecy "makes sense" in totally irrelevant. There could hardly be less sense to a prophecy than to say that a virgin would conceive and bear a Son. But it happened.

But the only reason this prophecy does not "make sense" to you is that you cling to the erroneous idea that it takes place before the seventieth week. I posted the scriptural reasons, not my theories, as to why it is after the week.

When Messiah comes, basically the entire world responds, coming down to Armageddon under the leadership of "the Beast," who is the ruler of the revived Roman empire. (Revelation 16:12-16)

That army will be totally defeated, and "the Beast" and "the false prophet" will be cast alive into the bottomless pit, to be tormented forever. (Revelation 16:19-21)

Isaiah 66:15-21 very clearly teaches that after that battle, the Lord will send the survivors out to tell all the world what they have seen, and to call all Israel home. And Ezekiel 20:33-38 just as clearly says that as they return,all the rebels will be purged from their midst.

Then the Lord will send a united Israel (Ezekiel 37:16-22) out to take vengeance on those nations that had for so long tried to annihilate them. (Habakkuk 2:8, Isaiah 49:26, Isaiah 51:22-23, and Jeremiah 48:10) And after that job is done, He will settle them in the land according to the divisions given in Ezekiel 48:1-29.

And it is only after all this has happened, that most of the previous nations make one more try, coming down again, led this time, not by "the beast," which is Rome, but by "Gog," which is Russia. (Ezekiel 38-39)

After this defeat, the nations never try again until a thousand years later, when they come down again, once more led by Gog. (Revelation 20:7-9)

This is the final scenario presented in the prophetic scriptures. And it makes perfect sense.

Biblewriter said:

It the first place, whether or not a prophecy "makes sense" in totally irrelevant. There could hardly be less sense to a prophecy than to say that a virgin would conceive and bear a Son. But it happened.

But the only reason this prophecy does not "make sense" to you is that you cling to the erroneous idea that it takes place before the seventieth week. I posted the scriptural reasons, not my theories, as to why it is after the week.

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James, I never wrote that the prophecy doesn't make sense. I wrote your interpretation doesn't make sense in expanding Gomer to include most of the world.

Douggg said:

James, I never wrote that the prophecy doesn't make sense. I wrote your interpretation doesn't make sense in expanding Gomer to include most of the world.

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I did not say that Gomer is most of the world. It is not interpretation, but the result of literally years of historical research, to conclude that Biblical Gomer is the ancient tribal group that the Greeks called the Cimmerians. This is not just my conclusion, but the conclusion of historians generally.

It is a well known fact of history that the Cimmerians were the ancestors of the people group that the Romans called the Gauls. And it is a well known fact of history that the Gauls were the ancestors of the modern day Celts, who are also called the Kelts.

The Celtic peoples are the root stock of most of western Europe, excepting Spain and Portugal. And Most of the United States, Canada, and Australia is Celtic in origin.

So "all the bands of Gomer" clearly includes all these modern nations. Again, this is not interpretation, it is history. Go research it yourself. I will gladly point you to specific ancient sources to back up what I have said.

Biblewriter said:

I did not say that Gomer is most of the world. It is not interpretation, but the result of literally years of historical research, to conclude that Biblical Gomer is the ancient tribal group that the Greeks called the Cimmerians. This is not just my conclusion, but the conclusion of historians generally.

It is a well known fact of history that the Cimmerians were the ancestors of the people group that the Romans called the Gauls. And it is a well known fact of history that the Gauls were the ancestors of the modern day Celts, who are also called the Kelts.

The Celtic peoples are the root stock of most of western Europe, excepting Spain and Portugal. And Most of the United States, Canada, and Australia is Celtic in origin.

So "all the bands of Gomer" clearly includes all these modern nations. Again, this is not interpretation, it is history. Go research it yourself. I will gladly point you to specific ancient sources to back up what I have said.

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James, I think the intent of the Bible verses regarding those nations was the geographic location where those grandsons of Noah, themselves, settled. The grandsons did not settle in Western Europe, the United States, or Australia.

Differently, in Daniel 11, those nations are not identified by Noah's grandsons, but kings of the North, South, West (implied), East (implied). In the end times, those are global powers.

The only indication in Ezekiel 38 and 39 of a global power is that of Gog coming from the north (Ezekiel 38:15). Which the global power would be Russia.

The other nations are lesser powers because they come with Gog.

"All the bands of," or, as some translations give it, "and all its troops," is not a definition of an area, but of the entirety of an ethnic group. And this is said of Gomer and Togarmah. The only area mentioned is "the land of Magog," out of which Gog comes.

rockytopva said:

Clashes erupt at Temple Mount as Muslim worshipers return to site

Clashes erupt at Temple Mount as Muslim worshipers return to site

I am just wondering if this is not setting up for the Ezekiel 38 prophecy to be fulfilled.

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I do not believe the Gog Magog war will happen until 1000 years after the second coming of Christ..

Adstar said:

I do not believe the Gog Magog war will happen until 1000 years after the second coming of Christ..

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Actually, Gog and Magog come down twice. Once before and once after the Millennium. But in both cases, it is not just God and Magog, but basically the entire world, united under the leadership of Gog.

rockytopva said:

Tell me... When they rebuild the temple in the aftermath, which will be in Ezekiel 40, there will be animal sacrifices. Why the need of sacrifices as Christ is our sacrifice? This makes me to believe that this is a pre-millennial event and will be of the Jewish religion.

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It is not our place to reason as to why God will do what He says He will do. It is only our place to respect His right to change the way He deals with mankind at any time He chooses.

There have already been two such changes that everyone knows about, whether they are Dispensaionalists or not. When God first gave the law through Moses, He thereafter demanded that Israel keep that law, under pain of death. And when our Lord Jesus gave himself at Calvary, God hereafter offered pardon to all who would trust in Him.

Both of these were distinct changes in the way God dealt with mankind. And He has told us that a similar change is coming in the future. It is His right to do so.

Lets look at the conditions which will be in the kingdom leading up to the Ezekiel 38 war..

Ezekiel 38: KJV
8 "¶ After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. {9} Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. {10} Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: {11} And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, {12} To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."

So in the times of people in this kingdom will be dwelling in safety.. Is that the current condition in modern Day Israel ??? Nope they dwell under the constant threat of terrorist attacks and hamas rockets..

In the time of this attack the people will be living in a land without Walls ... Without bars nor gates... Is there a country in the world today that has more border walls and security compound communities then Modern day Israel ?? Nope modern day Israeli's live in a nation of walls and iron bared homes with security gates everywhere..

Now verse 8 states that the people who come to attack the kingdom will be visited.. Now who do you think is going to be visisting them? Lets read the book of Revelation 20


Revelation 20: KJV
7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, {8} And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. {9} And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Yes satan is going to be paying them a visist to decieve them..

Now take a look at the nations that Ezekiel 38 says will be united in a coalition to attack The Kingdom in the first part of the prophecy..

Gog The land north of the Black Sea. This is a reference to modern Russia or at least parts of it in this area north of the Black Sea.

Magog: Magog was the ancient land of the Schythians. This land is now what we call Central Asia (the "Stans") and possibly includes parts or all of Afghanistan.

Meshek (also Meshech) : Located within modern Turkey.

Tubal: Located within modern Turkey.

Persia: The ancient land of Persia is located in modern Iran. In fact, Iran was called Persia until 1935, less than 100 years ago.

Ethiopia (also Cush) : Not modern Ethiopia, but known as the area now called Sudan (now North Sudan and perhaps parts of South Sudan).

Put: Modern Libya, possibly extending west beyond Libya to other North African nations.

Gomer: Located within modern Turkey.

Beth Togarmah: Located within modern Turkey.

Notice there is no Egypt or any other lands between the Nile river and the Euphrates river... Where are the Iraqis ?? Where are the Syrians ?? where are the Saudi's or the Jordanians or the Yemeni's? what has happened to all these nations? .... Well 1000 years before they where destroyed in the wars that lead up to the day of the LORD.. The return of Jesus.. So the kingdom during the time of Ezekiel 38 will be from the river Nile to the river Euphrates and will also include the arabian peninsular just as Abraham was promised all those years ago by God...

Genesis 15 KJV
18 "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:"

Notice also the type of weaponry and mode of transport that the Armies of Gog and Magog will be using at the time of the Ezekiel 38 war..

Ezekiel 38:KJV
14 "¶ Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? {15} And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:"

Ezekiel 39: KJV
8 "¶ Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken. {9} And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years: {10} So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD."

The kind of weapons that the gog magog army will use are not weapons of today.. But maybe weapons that may be used in a post technological world where people have returned back to basic living using basic technology..

Adstar said:

Lets look at the conditions which will be in the kingdom leading up to the Ezekiel 38 war..

Ezekiel 38: KJV
8 "¶ After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. {9} Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. {10} Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: {11} And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, {12} To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."

So in the times of people in this kingdom will be dwelling in safety.. Is that the current condition in modern Day Israel ??? Nope they dwell under the constant threat of terrorist attacks and hamas rockets..

In the time of this attack the people will be living in a land without Walls ... Without bars nor gates... Is there a country in the world today that has more border walls and security compound communities then Modern day Israel ?? Nope modern day Israeli's live in a nation of walls and iron bared homes with security gates everywhere..

Now verse 8 states that the people who come to attack the kingdom will be visited.. Now who do you think is going to be visisting them? Lets read the book of Revelation 20


Revelation 20: KJV
7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, {8} And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. {9} And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Yes satan is going to be paying them a visist to decieve them..

Now take a look at the nations that Ezekiel 38 says will be united in a coalition to attack The Kingdom in the first part of the prophecy..

Gog The land north of the Black Sea. This is a reference to modern Russia or at least parts of it in this area north of the Black Sea.

Magog: Magog was the ancient land of the Schythians. This land is now what we call Central Asia (the "Stans") and possibly includes parts or all of Afghanistan.

Meshek (also Meshech) : Located within modern Turkey.

Tubal: Located within modern Turkey.

Persia: The ancient land of Persia is located in modern Iran. In fact, Iran was called Persia until 1935, less than 100 years ago.

Ethiopia (also Cush) : Not modern Ethiopia, but known as the area now called Sudan (now North Sudan and perhaps parts of South Sudan).

Put: Modern Libya, possibly extending west beyond Libya to other North African nations.

Gomer: Located within modern Turkey.

Beth Togarmah: Located within modern Turkey.

Notice there is no Egypt or any other lands between the Nile river and the Euphrates river... Where are the Iraqis ?? Where are the Syrians ?? where are the Saudi's or the Jordanians or the Yemeni's? what has happened to all these nations? .... Well 1000 years before they where destroyed in the wars that lead up to the day of the LORD.. The return of Jesus.. So the kingdom during the time of Ezekiel 38 will be from the river Nile to the river Euphrates and will also include the arabian peninsular just as Abraham was promised all those years ago by God...

Genesis 15 KJV
18 "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:"

Notice also the type of weaponry and mode of transport that the Armies of Gog and Magog will be using at the time of the Ezekiel 38 war..

Ezekiel 38:KJV
14 "¶ Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? {15} And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:"

Ezekiel 39: KJV
8 "¶ Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken. {9} And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years: {10} So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD."

The kind of weapons that the gog magog army will use are not weapons of today.. But maybe weapons that may be used in a post technological world where people have returned back to basic living using basic technology..

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Your historic-geographical information is flawed.

Gomer was never Turkey. Multiple ancient references positively identify this nation as the ethnic group known to the Greeks as the Cimmerrians, who are the ancesrors of the Gauls, and through them, the Celtic peoples of today.

The oldest written history of the Armenians, clearly traces their ancestry to Togarmah.

And while in ancient times, both Meshech and Tubal were indeed located in modern Turkey, in about 1050 this area was invaded by the Turks, who were coming from the south. The vast bulk of both nations fled north into the regions north of the Black Sea. This is clearly recorded in the (sparse) literature of that day.

I determined all of these facts through literally decades of personal research through many ancient documents. But after I had reached my conclusions, I cross checked them against the most reliable modern scholarship available. And I found 100% correlation. Without a single exception, my conclusions were exactly what modern historians say about the identities of these ancient nations.

Biblewriter said:

Your historic-geographical information if flawed.

Gomer was never Turkey. Multiple ancient references positively identify this nation as the ethnic group known to the Greeks as the Cimmerrians, who are the ancesrors of the Gauls, and through them, the Celtic peoples of today.

The oldest written history of the Armenians, clearly traces their ancistory to Togarmah.

And while in ancient times, both Meshech and Tubal were indeed located in modern Turkey, in about 1050 this area was invaded by the Turks, who were coming from the south. The vast bulk of both nations fled north into the regions north of the Black Sea. This is clearly recorded in the (sparse) literature of that day.

I determined all of these facts through literally decades of personal research through many ancient documents. But after I had reached my conclusions, I cross checked them against the most reliable modern scholarship available. And I found 100% correlation. Without a single exception, my conclusions were exactly what modern historians say about the identities of these ancient nations.

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Well lets say that you are right.. That Gomer is located in Greece.. That still supports my main point that Gomer is not within the boundaries of the rivers Nile and Euphrates nor is it on the Arabian peninsular..

Also It does not matter that these ancient kingdoms like Meshech and Tubal have been invaded by Turks The Bible can simply be saying that the invading forces will come from these areas.. It does not matter if at the time if the invasion the people occupying these lands are Chinese and Africans or Mongolians..

Adstar said:

Well lets say that you are right.. That Gomer is located in Greece.. That still supports my main point that Gomer is not within the boundaries of the rivers Nile and Euphrates nor is it on the Arabian peninsular..

Also It does not matter that these ancient kingdoms like Meshech and Tubal have been invaded by Turks The Bible can simply be saying that the invading forces will come from these areas.. It does not matter if at the time if the invasion the people occupying these lands are Chinese and Africans or Mongolians..

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I neither said, nor even implied, that Gomer is located in Greece. But your contention that the point of these names is where they lived in ancient times. Aside from the words "from the land of Magog," all of these names speak of peoples, not locations. So the current locations of these peoples is what counts, for application to modern times.