Heaven

JohnRabbit · Jul 24, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
I read it just not sure what it has to do with with heaven.

Hebrews 11:40(NKJV)
40God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

the patriarchs cannot receive any reward until we do, meaning that this receiving of the promise happens at a definite time!

meaning that if you and me are "'saved", then if i die, i can't go to heaven, or receive eternal life until you do and let's say you die 30 years after me.

can you see that?

and there's this, speaking of the Christ, paul said:

Colossians 1:18(NKJV)
18And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

what people don't seem to understand is that when you try to put OT folks in heaven or what have you, you are saying that they are born from the dead BEFORE Christ which would null and void His preeminence into the kingdom, meaning that they would have "went" before He did!

no one has been born from the dead, except Christ!

now look at the consistency:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14(NKJV)
13But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

continue:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17(NKJV)
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (which will include the heb 11 folks)
17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

just like heb 40 implies, made perfect together and after the preeminence of Christ!

Hall · Jul 24, 2017

If heaven was on Earth, Enoch and Elijah wouldn't have been taken up to heaven. Genesis 5:24. / 2 Kings 2:11

JohnRabbit · Jul 24, 2017

Hall said:
If heaven was on Earth, Enoch and Elijah wouldn't have been taken up to heaven. Genesis 5:24. / 2 Kings 2:11

the bible talks about three heavens, correct?

Hall · Jul 24, 2017

JohnRabbit said:
the bible talks about three heavens, correct?

It does, but Elijah and Enoch never came back to Earth, they went to heaven where God resides, whichever dimension that may be.

RaymondG · Jul 24, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
way to go all philosophical on me smh.

lol, I speak in parable so that seeing you see not and hearing you hear not.....lest you understand and be converted

Aseyesee · Jul 24, 2017

Hall said:
Can you post the scriptures please.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

JohnRabbit · Jul 24, 2017

Hall said:
It does, but Elijah and Enoch never came back to Earth, they went to heaven where God resides, whichever dimension that may be.

what people don't seem to understand is that when you try to put OT folks in heaven or what have you, you are saying that they are born from the dead BEFORE Christ which would null and void His preeminence into the kingdom, meaning that they would have "went" before He did!

what part of this do you not understand?

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Jul 24, 2017

RaymondG said:
lol, I speak in parable so that seeing you see not and hearing you hear not.....lest you understand and be converted

Ik i was just joking I get what you mean

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Jul 24, 2017

JohnRabbit said:
Hebrews 11:40(NKJV)
40God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

the patriarchs cannot receive any reward until we do, meaning that this receiving of the promise happens at a definite time!

meaning that if you and me are "'saved", then if i die, i can't go to heaven, or receive eternal life until you do and let's say you die 30 years after me.

can you see that?

and there's this, speaking of the Christ, paul said:

Colossians 1:18(NKJV)
18And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

what people don't seem to understand is that when you try to put OT folks in heaven or what have you, you are saying that they are born from the dead BEFORE Christ which would null and void His preeminence into the kingdom, meaning that they would have "went" before He did!

no one has been born from the dead, except Christ!

now look at the consistency:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14(NKJV)
13But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

continue:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17(NKJV)
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (which will include the heb 11 folks)
17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

just like heb 40 implies, made perfect together and after the preeminence of Christ!

Wow I get it now great explanation.

This ties in with what i've been looking into as well and confirms it appreciate the explanation

JohnRabbit · Jul 24, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
Wow I get it now great explanation.

This ties in with what i've been looking into as well and confirms it appreciate the explanation

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Jul 24, 2017

Hall said:
It does, but Elijah and Enoch never came back to Earth, they went to heaven where God resides, whichever dimension that may be.

explain this verse then I was looking at it a few hours ago

2 Chronicles 21:12

And there came a writing to him from Eliiah the Prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of Dauid thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the wayes of Iehoshaphat thy father, nor in the wayes of Asa king of Iudah:”

Hall · Jul 24, 2017

JohnRabbit said:
what people don't seem to understand is that when you try to put OT folks in heaven or what have you, you are saying that they are born from the dead BEFORE Christ which would null and void His preeminence into the kingdom, meaning that they would have "went" before He did!

what part of this do you not understand?

But it says what it says doesn't it. Elijah and Enoch were taken up to heaven.

Hall · Jul 24, 2017

Aseyesee said:
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I forgot what the argument was on this thread lol...is it that you believe heaven is on Earth?

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Jul 24, 2017

I didn't explain the significance of the verse I quoted, that letter was written about 10 years after Elisha ascended into heaven or the sky essentially

JohnRabbit · Jul 24, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
explain this verse then I was looking at it a few hours ago

2 Chronicles 21:12

And there came a writing to him from Eliiah the Prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of Dauid thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the wayes of Iehoshaphat thy father, nor in the wayes of Asa king of Iudah:”

this is the verse that "kills" the elijah going to heaven thing.

God decided that it was time for elijah to end his job as prophet and He wanted to put elisha in his place.

but God knew that elijah was powerfully popular with the people and if he was around they would have a hard time listening to elisha.

so God performed a miraculous event that the people had to acknowledge, hence, the chariot of fire, which simply flew in what the bible calls the second heaven - the sky where plane fly.

and apparently, it took him to another location on the earth and away from the people.

Hall · Jul 24, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
explain this verse then I was looking at it a few hours ago

2 Chronicles 21:12

And there came a writing to him from Eliiah the Prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of Dauid thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the wayes of Iehoshaphat thy father, nor in the wayes of Asa king of Iudah:”

It says And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet.

I don't think it means that Elijah was still around and had just written it. Unless there are scriptures noting otherwise?

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Jul 24, 2017

Hall said:
It says And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet.

I don't think it means that Elijah was still around and had just written it. Unless there are scriptures noting otherwise?

The letter was written around 10 years after the heaven event though I'm not sure what makes you think it would take 10 years to get to its intended location.

Additionally the letter is written as if the events have already happened not as if they were future events he predicted (read verse 13). The disease part or verse 14 is future though but verse 13 isn't.

JohnRabbit · Jul 24, 2017

Hall said:
But it says what it says doesn't it. Elijah and Enoch were taken up to heaven.

says enoch was taken, doesn't say where. most likely, from the scriptures, it says that enoch was a fiery preacher and probably what he was preaching most people wasn't trying to hear. (like on the forum

)

which brings me to this:

Genesis 4:23(NKJV)
23Then Lamech said to his wives: “Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; Wives of Lamech, listen to my speech! For I have killed a man for wounding me, Even a young man for hurting me.

now in the next chapter, the genealogy is given and if you notice when it speaks of enoch it says:

Genesis 5:21-24(NKJV)
21Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah.
22After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters.
23So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years.
24And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

he lived 365 years, which would make him a young man compared to the rest in the chapter, and the verse says it was all of his days, just like it says of the rest in the chapter.

we do notice that he was young when he died, for "he was not".

so it seems that lamech murdered enoch for some reason and his dead body was just laying in the open and God took him and buried him.

read my post #156 for the to do about elijah.

Aseyesee · Jul 24, 2017

Hall said:
I forgot what the argument was on this thread lol...is it that you believe heaven is on Earth?

Heaven (in some respects) is a frame of mind.

(If it had been your experience), when the windows of heaven open, and pour out the blessing that can't be contained, where does this happen at ...

JohnRabbit · Jul 24, 2017

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:
The letter was written around 10 years after the heaven event though I'm not sure what makes you think it would take 10 years to get to its intended location.

Additionally the letter is written as if the events have already happened not as if they were future events he predicted (read verse 13). The disease part or verse 14 is future though but verse 13 isn't.

it takes a while, but eventually they'll see it.

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