"Is Genesis History" documentary now on Netflix

JacksBratt said:

I totally accept YEC. I know this makes me part of the minority on this site. However, I strongly attend that any "theory" of how life on this planet got here MUST have an answer to that very very first and essential detail................where did "LIFE" come from.

Evolution totally skips this first and important step.

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Evolution isn't a theory of everything. It's a model for development of species. There is currently no good model for development of life. Just because we don't know everything is no reason to discard what we do know.

hedrick said:

Evolution isn't a theory of everything. It's a model for development of species. There is currently no good model for development of life. Just because we don't know everything is no reason to discard what we do know.

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Your right, evolution is not a theory of everything. Most importantly it has no explanation for how the ball started rolling, or even where the ball came from....

However, God gave us the fact of everything. Plain simple and totally within His capabilities.

It is only the observations of men and the assumptions that they make from these observations that convince others to discount the plain and simple facts that God gave us.

Yes, the Bible tells us that God made everything. It doesn't tell us how. Evolution, for all it's faults, tries to tell us how. It's not accurate, and may never be. Some things, like how the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharistic celebration, are meant to be mysteries.

Root of Jesse said:

Yes, the Bible tells us that God made everything. It doesn't tell us how. Evolution, for all it's faults, tries to tell us how. It's not accurate, and may never be. Some things, like how the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharistic celebration, are meant to be mysteries.

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I beg to differ..... The bible tells us exactly how He did it. He spoke and it happened. Why complicate things based on the assumptions, speculation and extrapolation of atheistic men and women, when God put it out there plain and simple.

Root of Jesse said:

The Bible never says it was a 'literal' week.

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Well, it never says it was billions of years, it never says that one being morphed and mutated into another, it never says that it was left to nature to all happen the way the TOE says.

It does say "there was evening and there was morning" at the end of each day. Pretty hard to fit a billion years into that.

JacksBratt said:

I beg to differ..... The bible tells us exactly how He did it. He spoke and it happened. Why complicate things based on the assumptions, speculation and extrapolation of atheistic men and women, when God put it out there plain and simple.

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Some people want to know more, just as some people are interested in HOW a car runs or is architected, or a computer system. I never said one needed to go on assumptions, etc. of atheists. Nor do I. Without God there is nothing. But there's the detail we're interested in. Most people are satisfied that you turn the key and the car runs, too. Some want more info. And there is more info. There is no doubt that God spoke and it happened, but there was still a process.

JacksBratt said:

Well, it never says it was billions of years, it never says that one being morphed and mutated into another, it never says that it was left to nature to all happen the way the TOE says.

It does say "there was evening and there was morning" at the end of each day. Pretty hard to fit a billion years into that.

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But the Bible also tells us that a day to God is like a thousand years. And how was there evening and morning when there way yet a sun and moon and stars (which define evening and morning...)?
Also, the second account in Genesis as well as the Garden of Eden allows for growing and producing seeds and food.

Root of Jesse said:

But the Bible also tells us that a day to God is like a thousand years. And how was there evening and morning when there way yet a sun and moon and stars (which define evening and morning...)?
Also, the second account in Genesis as well as the Garden of Eden allows for growing and producing seeds and food.

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Context is everything..... We must always understand a concept in the Bible is connected directly to a certain scenario...
This blurb says it exactly how I would have if I had the literary ability. This is from:

2 Peter 3:8 one day is like a thousand years - creation.com


The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day is a thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context—the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.


The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.


The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:

‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’
This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that a Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).


The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.


Even if it was to be taken that way.... it still indicates creation would be limited to 6000 years.... Evolution still loses. This is way to short of time. Not even close to billions of years necessary.

Root of Jesse said:

Some people want to know more, just as some people are interested in HOW a car runs or is architected, or a computer system. I never said one needed to go on assumptions, etc. of atheists. Nor do I. Without God there is nothing. But there's the detail we're interested in. Most people are satisfied that you turn the key and the car runs, too. Some want more info. And there is more info. There is no doubt that God spoke and it happened, but there was still a process.

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Yes, I understand the curiosity of men. However, if you are searching for an explanation of how God did something and your "human" deductions begin to contradict the words of God, the creator, who do you believe?

JacksBratt said:

Context is everything..... We must always understand a concept in the Bible is connected directly to a certain scenario...
This blurb says it exactly how I would have if I had the literary ability. This is from:

2 Peter 3:8 one day is like a thousand years - creation.com


The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day is a thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context—the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.


The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.


The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 (Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching). This reads:

‘For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.’
This is synonymous parallelism, where a long period of a thousand years is contrasted with two short periods: a day, and a night watch. But those who try to use this verse to teach that the days of Genesis might be 1000 years long forget the additional part in bold. For if they were consistent, they would have to say that a watch in the night here also means 1000 years. It’s difficult to imagine that a Psalmist (Psalm 63:6) is thinking on his bed for thousands of years or that his eyes stay open for thousands of years (Psalm 119:148).


The immediate context of the Psalm is the frailty of mere mortal man in comparison to God. This verse amplifies the teaching, saying that no matter how long a time interval is from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s eternal perspective.


Even if it was to be taken that way.... it still indicates creation would be limited to 6000 years.... Evolution still loses. This is way to short of time. Not even close to billions of years necessary.

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You are right, context and when it was written/spoken is key. I never said that the quote related directly to creation, but to point out that God is outside of time, is Time Itself. Man's understanding is also important.
I take the Bible literally, meaning taking the meaning of the author when it was written, rather than literalistically, meaning the meaning of the passage as written word for word.
An example is that, throughout Genesis, God appears to have emotions-he's angry, he changes his mind, and so on. God is perfect, never needing to change his mind, yet we write giving God man's emotions (sort of like we do for animals). There is poetic expression throughout Genesis, but the key points remain: God created the universe, placed a literal Adam and Eve in a garden we will never find, caused a worldwide flood, and so on. The details are not so important. It doesn't matter how long it took for God to create everything. He did it in His time, not ours.

JacksBratt said:

Yes, I understand the curiosity of men. However, if you are searching for an explanation of how God did something and your "human" deductions begin to contradict the words of God, the creator, who do you believe?

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Evolution does not contradict God's creation, except when they decide to leave God out of it.

I don't think science will ever figure it out exactly. But there is some element of time involved, and I don't think that's outside of God's realm at all. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he created geological and biological strata to keep us guessing. But dinosaurs existed, ice ages happened, and so on. More than 6000 years ago.

Root of Jesse said:

It doesn't matter how long it took for God to create everything. He did it in His time, not ours.

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Well, I guess that's what it boils down to. I believe that He did do it in our time and I think that He punctuated this by stating "there was evening, there was morning"

Why would He want that to be recorded, for each and every day if it was not 1/ to be important. 2/ to set a timeline. 3/ Possibly avoid the argument that many people have had regarding billions of years.

Those six words, to me, say it all.

Root of Jesse said:

Evolution does not contradict God's creation, except when they decide to leave God out of it.

I don't think science will ever figure it out exactly. But there is some element of time involved, and I don't think that's outside of God's realm at all. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he created geological and biological strata to keep us guessing. But dinosaurs existed, ice ages happened, and so on. More than 6000 years ago.

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I agree, dinosaurs existed, ice ages happened, maybe 6001 years ago then.

JacksBratt said:

Well, I guess that's what it boils down to. I believe that He did do it in our time and I think that He punctuated this by stating "there was evening, there was morning"

Why would He want that to be recorded, for each and every day if it was not 1/ to be important. 2/ to set a timeline. 3/ Possibly avoid the argument that many people have had regarding billions of years.

Those six words, to me, say it all.

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To God, there is no evening or morning. Those are functions of time. Man wrote Genesis of his own free will. God didn't dictate. Man was inspired to write and can only communicate how he knows to communicate.
As long as you believe that God created the universe, that Adam and Eve are real people and that the Flood was world-wide, it really matters not how.

Root of Jesse said:

To God, there is no evening or morning. Those are functions of time. Man wrote Genesis of his own free will. God didn't dictate. Man was inspired to write and can only communicate how he knows to communicate.

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Are you saying that men wrote what they wanted to write? In words that they wanted to use?

I disagree. The bible is God breathed, God inspired. Every jot and title in the original language is just as God intended.

There have been computer programs which search for codes in the original texts. Some written by men in military intelligence and decoding of encrypted messages of the enemy forces, who were atheists and thought it was bunk. They wrote their own code to search for such hidden information. Now, they are full blown believers in Christ and powerful proponents for the truth of the Living God.

Not only are there hidden messages but mathematical "coincidences" that will "wow" the reader.

Whether you believe this or not, there was, in fact, evening and morning. Yes these are functions of time, however as soon as God spoke the universe into existence, there was time and He gives credibility to this concept by stating that there was evening and there was morning. He will always be free of the constriction of the dimension of time, but the universe He created is, for now, confined by time.

Root of Jesse said:

As long as you believe that God created the universe, that Adam and Eve are real people and that the Flood was world-wide, it really matters not how.

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Really?

It matters not? Are you sure?

I fully believe that God formed Adam with His own hands and created Him in Their image. "Created" not the result of millions of years of random DNA changes and morphing.

We were created with feeling, purpose and pride, to be the image of Him.

The facts of how this happened are essential, as is the facts of how the flood happened. All things in the bible happened as they are written and have a direct and serious purpose in the grand plan of our God.
Nothing happened and was recorded in the Bible that is not essential to the understanding of God and His agenda.

JacksBratt said:

Are you saying that men wrote what they wanted to write? In words that they wanted to use?

I disagree. The bible is God breathed, God inspired. Every jot and title in the original language is just as God intended.

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God inspired, God breathed, that doesn't mean they didn't write what they wanted to write. To say otherwise makes the authors robots, slaves, as Muslims see God. Mankind has free will. God inspired them to write what they wrote. But do you really believe that mankind can now, or ever could, understand how God created everything?

There have been computer programs which search for codes in the original texts. Some written by men in military intelligence and decoding of encrypted messages of the enemy forces, who were atheists and thought it was bunk. They wrote their own code to search for such hidden information. Now, they are full blown believers in Christ and powerful proponents for the truth of the Living God.

Not only are there hidden messages but mathematical "coincidences" that will "wow" the reader.

Whether you believe this or not, there was, in fact, evening and morning. Yes these are functions of time, however as soon as God spoke the universe into existence, there was time and He gives credibility to this concept by stating that there was evening and there was morning. He will always be free of the constriction of the dimension of time, but the universe He created is, for now, confined by time.




Really?

It matters not? Are you sure?

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Yes, I'm sure it doesn't matter to me how God did it, only that he did it. Just as, as an adopted child, it doesn't matter to me who my mother and father were (the ones who procreated me), only that they did, and didn't abort me.

I fully believe that God formed Adam with His own hands and created Him in Their image. "Created" not the result of millions of years of random DNA changes and morphing.

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You believe God has real hands...really? I believe God formed Adam, too. I don't care how long it took.

We were created with feeling, purpose and pride, to be the image of Him.

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True. And with free will. To love whatever we want, even if it isn't Him.

The facts of how this happened are essential, as is the facts of how the flood happened. All things in the bible happened as they are written and have a direct and serious purpose in the grand plan of our God.

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Why is it important how they happened? We can't explain miracles, but we still believe they happen. What is important is that they happened, and that we believe they happened, even if we can't explain how.

Nothing happened and was recorded in the Bible that is not essential to the understanding of God and His agenda.

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All of God's word is important, not just part of it, too.

Root of Jesse said:

God inspired, God breathed, that doesn't mean they didn't write what they wanted to write. To say otherwise makes the authors robots, slaves, as Muslims see God.

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Call it "slaves" if you want. I prefer "instrument" In the concerns of the Holy Scripture, I am sure that every single stroke is the will of God.

Thus...

Matthew 5:18King James Version (KJV)

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Root of Jesse said:

Mankind has free will. God inspired them to write what they wrote. But do you really believe that mankind can now, or ever could, understand how God created everything?

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Well, no, I cannot understand how an entity can say, if they wanted, let there be a car and a car would appear. However, God can do this. Or do you doubt that He could?

Was it not you that said that you don't have to understand how a car is made.... to drive it. You can even understand the concepts that operate it and many of it's functions and still not grasp everything.


God is all powerful. There is nothing He cannot do. He said that He spoke and things were created... Why would I doubt that? Due to my lack of understanding of the intricacies?

Or, should I make up some assumed scheme of things in order to satisfy my inadequate knowledge? Especially one that has the whole purpose, by who perpetuate it, to leave God out of it.

Root of Jesse said:

Yes, I'm sure it doesn't matter to me how God did it, only that he did it.

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Then why is it so important for you to perpetuate the idea that it was done differently than stated in a book that is Inspired by the creator Himself?

If it matters not to you, why such a strong stance in contradiction to simple text?


It matters to me. A lot. To diminish the creation account into a series of changes, motivated by multiple factors, over an enormous amount of time.......from the simple text that God has given us.........is blasphemous to me.

It is the imperfection in the concrete wall that the weeds of doubt and anti God belief get a foot hold.

Ask yourself..... what would it contradict if you stated "the world was created in Six literal days"?

All it contradicts is the wild believe, assumptions and, more than anything, the hopes and dreams of people trying to remove the fact that God exists.

Root of Jesse said:

Just as, as an adopted child, it doesn't matter to me who my mother and father were (the ones who procreated me), only that they did, and didn't abort me.

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Apples and oranges...

What if your parents left you a note that stated why they gave you up........Then, some acquaintance of theirs tells you that they lied and they gave you up for some less loving reason?

Who do you believe.... the words of your real parents or hearsay from a third party?

Root of Jesse said:

You believe God has real hands...really?

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You tell me...or did He just have one lonely finger?

Exodus 31:18King James Version (KJV)

18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Root of Jesse said:

I believe God formed Adam, too. I don't care how long it took.True. And with free will. To love whatever we want, even if it isn't Him.Why is it important how they happened? We can't explain miracles, but we still believe they happen. What is important is that they happened, and that we believe they happened, even if we can't explain how.All of God's word is important, not just part of it, too.

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Its important because ignoring how, why, when and how long, as stated in the words our creator gave us...... leaves you open to questioning the truth of anything.

JacksBratt said:

Call it "slaves" if you want. I prefer "instrument" In the concerns of the Holy Scripture, I am sure that every single stroke is the will of God.

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So am I, but the authors wrote what they were inspired to write.

Thus...

Matthew 5:18King James Version (KJV)

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.





Well, no, I cannot understand how an entity can say, if they wanted, let there be a car and a car would appear. However, God can do this. Or do you doubt that He could?

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I have no doubt God is in control, which is why I don't believe man can destroy God's Creation.

Was it not you that said that you don't have to understand how a car is made.... to drive it. You can even understand the concepts that operate it and many of it's functions and still not grasp everything.

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Yeah, but you missed the point. I was saying that understanding how a car works is similar to Science trying to understand how Creation happened.

God is all powerful. There is nothing He cannot do. He said that He spoke and things were created... Why would I doubt that? Due to my lack of understanding of the intricacies?

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Or, should I make up some assumed scheme of things in order to satisfy my inadequate knowledge? Especially one that has the whole purpose, by who perpetuate it, to leave God out of it.

[/quote]Them's called theories. We have them for lots of things. Do you think it's wrong to have theories?

Then why is it so important for you to perpetuate the idea that it was done differently than stated in a book that is Inspired by the creator Himself?

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I didn't say it was done differently. I'm saying it was man expressing God's methods, and we can never completely understand it.

If it matters not to you, why such a strong stance in contradiction to simple text?

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I don't believe it's a contradiction, which is my point.

It matters to me. A lot. To diminish the creation account into a series of changes, motivated by multiple factors, over an enormous amount of time.......from the simple text that God has given us.........is blasphemous to me.

It is the imperfection in the concrete wall that the weeds of doubt and anti God belief get a foot hold.

Ask yourself..... what would it contradict if you stated "the world was created in Six literal days"?

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What would it contradict if YOU stated "God create the universe and he used evolution to manifest it to us"?

All it contradicts is the wild believe, assumptions and, more than anything, the hopes and dreams of people trying to remove the fact that God exists.

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This much we agree-the Darwinian theory leaves God out of it completely.

Apples and oranges...

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And yet people want to know their 'birth parents' for some reason...

What if your parents left you a note that stated why they gave you up........Then, some acquaintance of theirs tells you that they lied and they gave you up for some less loving reason?

Who do you believe.... the words of your real parents or hearsay from a third party?




You tell me...or did He just have one lonely finger?

Exodus 31:18King James Version (KJV)

18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

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Only God in the Person of Jesus has human parts.

Its important because ignoring how, why, when and how long, as stated in the words our creator gave us...... leaves you open to questioning the truth of anything.

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Actually, it doesn't. I believe in God wholeheartedly, and I believe the Bible is Truth itself, but I also believe that the books of the Bible are written in different Genres. In fact, some books are Fiction. Some are Legal texts. Some are historic, though the type of history that is more described as Epic.

Root of Jesse said:

So am I, but the authors wrote what they were inspired to write.

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And it was written in the words God gave them. It is a precise book of script.

Root of Jesse said:

Yeah, but you missed the point. I was saying that understanding how a car works is similar to Science trying to understand how Creation happened.

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Well, long as when science has no answer, they stop making things up. And Christians, when they cannot explain something, listen to what the word says.

Root of Jesse said:

Or, should I make up some assumed scheme of things in order to satisfy my inadequate knowledge? Especially one that has the whole purpose, by who perpetuate it, to leave God out of it.

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With the word of God, you don't need to make anything up. It works perfectly as it is written.

Not to mention that it doesn't matter to you "how".

Root of Jesse said:

Them's called theories. We have them for lots of things. Do you think it's wrong to have theories?

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Well, when I was younger, a theory was something that was not proven to be fact........yet.
Now, a theory is a fact etc.....

Plus, I don't need a theory on how it happened. God told me. Do you need a theory on how a hammer drives a nail into wood? Or, are you pretty sure you understand it and it's easy to believe how it works?

Root of Jesse said:

I didn't say it was done differently. I'm saying it was man expressing God's methods, and we can never completely understand it.

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Evolution is a man expressing what he thinks.

Creation is a man, inspired by God writing God breathed scriptures of what God did, so that all people in all history can read it and know. And all of it was so good that God allowed it to survive for the entire history since it has been written.

Then, although I don't understand how God spoke and light was created, I also don't know how Jesus made a huge amount of water become the best wine at the wedding, with no sugar, no yeast, no grapes and no time for fermentation, wracking or decanting. Even though I don't understand these things.... I know one thing.........God did it and I will not, in this life, fully understand God.

Root of Jesse said:

I don't believe it's a contradiction, which is my point.What would it contradict if YOU stated "God create the universe and he used evolution to manifest it to us"?

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You mean besides the whole thing about there being no death until Adam sinned and brought death into the world. And, the fact that evolution requires millennia of death?
You mean besides the point that God stated " there was evening and there was morning" AND the stretching and twisting and pulling and altering that is required to ignore these simple words, repeated for each day?

Root of Jesse said:

And yet people want to know their 'birth parents' for some reason...

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Still apples to apples.

Root of Jesse said:

Only God in the Person of Jesus has human parts.

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So, who wrote the ten commandments with their finger before the person of Jesus?

Root of Jesse said:

Actually, it doesn't. I believe in God wholeheartedly, and I believe the Bible is Truth itself, but I also believe that the books of the Bible are written in different Genres. In fact, some books are Fiction. Some are Legal texts. Some are historic, though the type of history that is more described as Epic.

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Yes, that's "you". You have studied and understand. To the people who have never heard of God... there is no desire to search, no desire to learn and no reason to believe in a God.......man explains everything and deliberately negates the need for God.... it is those that it hurts.

JacksBratt said:

And it was written in the words God gave them. It is a precise book of script.

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So you think they were robots. Got it.

Well, long as when science has no answer, they stop making things up. And Christians, when they cannot explain something, listen to what the word says.

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Yeah, I agree there.

With the word of God, you don't need to make anything up. It works perfectly as it is written.

Not to mention that it doesn't matter to you "how".


Well, when I was younger, a theory was something that was not proven to be fact........yet.
Now, a theory is a fact etc.....

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Yeah, I know people think that, but when you use a word that has an established meaning, you can't just go changing it, sort of like what the Protestant Reformation did.

Plus, I don't need a theory on how it happened. God told me. Do you need a theory on how a hammer drives a nail into wood? Or, are you pretty sure you understand it and it's easy to believe how it works?

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Actually, there is a physical description, so no, you don't need a theory. But some scientist did do that.

Evolution is a man expressing what he thinks.

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No argument here...

Creation is a man, inspired by God writing God breathed scriptures of what God did, so that all people in all history can read it and know. And all of it was so good that God allowed it to survive for the entire history since it has been written.

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Using man's limited understanding of what God said, or God dumbing it down so Man can comprehend it.

Then, although I don't understand how God spoke and light was created, I also don't know how Jesus made a huge amount of water become the best wine at the wedding, with no sugar, no yeast, no grapes and no time for fermentation, wracking or decanting. Even though I don't understand these things.... I know one thing.........God did it and I will not, in this life, fully understand God.

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Them are miracles, and that, there, is faith.

You mean besides the whole thing about there being no death until Adam sinned and brought death into the world. And, the fact that evolution requires millennia of death?
You mean besides the point that God stated " there was evening and there was morning" AND the stretching and twisting and pulling and altering that is required to ignore these simple words, repeated for each day?

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That is exactly some of the poetic language we talk about-how can there be evening and morning when those are defined by sunlight and starlight?

Still apples to apples.


So, who wrote the ten commandments with their finger before the person of Jesus?

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Exactly-it's poetic. Moses did it. Mysteriously, miraculously. We take that by faith. How doesn't really matter.

Yes, that's "you". You have studied and understand. To the people who have never heard of God... there is no desire to search, no desire to learn and no reason to believe in a God.......man explains everything and deliberately negates the need for God.... it is those that it hurts.

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This is true, and that's what I'm saying. Different than you, but same meaning.