Revelation 12: Heavenly Sign to Appear in 2017
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You left off "and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken"
in Matthew 24: 29 why did you do that dave ?
I will spell this out for you
Prophecies about Babylon
1The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.
Judgment on the Day of the LORD
10For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not flash forth their light;
The sun will be dark when it rises
And the moon will not shed its light.
11Thus I will punish the world for its evil
And the wicked for their iniquity;
I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud
And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless.
12I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold
And mankind than the gold of Ophir.
13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble,
And the earth will be shaken from its place
At the fury of the LORD of hosts
In the day of His burning anger.
14And it will be that like a hunted gazelle,
Or like sheep with none to gather them,
They will each turn to his own people,
And each one flee to his own land.
15Anyone who is found will be thrust through,
And anyone who is captured will fall by the sword.
16Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces
Before their eyes;
Their houses will be plundered
And their wives ravished.
Babylon Will Fall to the Medes
17Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them,
Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold.
18And their bows will mow down the young men,
They will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb,
Nor will their eye pity children.
19And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans’ pride,
Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
20It will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation;
Nor will the Arab pitch his tent there,
Nor will shepherds make their flocks lie down there.
21But desert creatures will lie down there,
And their houses will be full of owls;
Ostriches also will live there, and shaggy goats will frolic there.
22Hyenas will howl in their fortified towers
And jackals in their luxurious palaces.
Her fateful time also will soon come
And her days will not be prolonged.
It's a prophecy about the Babylon empire falling and the Medo Persia empire taking over. The heavens didn't actually tremble or the earth shake.
Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21 is a version of Matthew 24
It spells it out. Its talking about 70 AD
Scripture particularly prophecy does have dimensions(different sides) to it.
there can be history, spiritual, future, signs in the heavens (astronomy), sides to it.
The universe is Gods timing so things in the sky will be correlating with mans history I agree with u about that.
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SeventyOne
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keras
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I am right, Bible Prophecy is my proof.
The Day of the Lord's wrath has nothing to do with any eclipse; a predictable event. It will come, as CME's do, without warning; like a thief, sudden and shocking everyone.
From what little information is available on coronal mass ejections, I gather that initially a powerful light flash will be seen on earth, as described in Isaiah 30:26a The microwave effect of this will cause earthquakes, the Electro-magnetic pulse will cause weapons to explode and will destroy all electrical systems. Then the main mass of super heated, hydrogen plasma starts to arrive 24 hours later. This continuously affects the earth, as it rotates, depending on the size of the ejection but lessening as the earth moves along it's orbital track. Initially the moon will glow bright red from the reflected flash, then darken. These Bible prophecies tell of that period between the light flash and the main strike:
The people;
Jeremiah 6:24-26 News of them [the coming disaster] has reached us and our hands hang limp, agony grips us, like a woman in labour. Do not go outside for terror is spread all around. In an instant, the despoiler is upon us.
Jeremiah 30:6-7 Every man grips his sides and every face turns pale. How awful is that Day. It is a time of trouble for the descendants of Jacob, but some will be rescued out of it.
Ezekiel 7:17 Every hand hangs limp, their knees will be wet with urine.
Ezekiel 21:5-7a All shall know that I, the Lord has drawn My sword.... groan bitterly until you collapse. All hearts will melt, all hands hang limp, all courage will fail.
Zephaniah 3:14-16 Zion: cry out for joy - the Lord has swept away your enemies. On that Day, this is the message for Jerusalem; fear not, let not your hands hang limp.
Signs in the heavens just before the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath;
Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord.
Acts 2:19-20 I will show wonders in the sky and signs on the earth; blood, fire and smoke. The sun will be darkened and the moon blood red, before the Great Day of the Lord.
Isaiah 13:9-13 The Day of the Lord is coming, that cruel Day of wrath and fierce anger, to reduce the earth to a desolation and to destroy all the wicked there. The sun moon and stars will give no light. Humans will become scarce, as rare as fine gold and the earth will quake at the wrath of God on the Day of His blazing anger.
See: it is coming - it is here! Ezekiel 21:7b, Isaiah 30:26-28
Ezekiel 32:7-8 When I judge you [Egypt] I shall veil the sky and darken the sun with clouds, the moon will give no light. Darkness will cover your land.
Isaiah 24:21-23 On that Day, the Lord will punish in heaven, the host of heaven and on earth, the kings of the earth. The moon will grow pale and the sun will be darkened. [Obscured by smoke and ash]
Joel 2:10 At their onset [the 'vast host' of superheated hydrogen] the earth shakes and the heavens shudder. The sun and moon are darkened and the stars give no light.
Isaiah 34:4 The heavens will roll up like a scroll, their host will fall like ripe fruit. [a meteor shower and our satellites will crash back to earth]
Revelation 6:12-14 - The Sixth Seal; There was a great earthquake and the sun turned black as a funeral pall and the moon blood red, the starry host fell and the sky rolled up like a scroll.
Signs of the Return of Jesus - a later event; years after the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath;
Matthew 24:27-30 Like a lightning flash that lights the sky from the east to the west, so will the Coming of the Son of Man be. As soon as that time of distress [the Great Tribulation] has passed, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give her light, stars will fall [meteors] and the heavenly power will be shaken...then all will see Him coming on the clouds. Reference: REB. some verses abridged.
The sun will be darkened at the Return, referred to as the Great Day of the Sovereign Lord- Rev 16:14, this is to highlight that event. That darkening is not the same as what is described at the much earlier, soon to happen, Lords Day of vengeance and wrath. This will be because an enormous mass is approaching and then, when it hits, by the smoke from the fires and volcanoes. That the Lord has in the past and will again in the future cause a 'darkening', other than a CME, is shown by Exodus 10:21-22, Luke 23:44-45, Revelation 16:10. It is not correct to say there is only one Day of the Lord.
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Revealing Times
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Whatever this is, it will not happen until after the Rapture and during Gods plagues, and it will only affect those who have taken the Mark pf the Beast.
This Astrology about this sign is not of God.
For starters there is no Sign coming about Rev. 12:1-5, it is a past event. It was written of course to tell us/inform us who the Woman/Dragon/male-child was. Mainly the first two, because the prophecy is about the Woman (Israel) being chased into the Wilderness by the Dragon (Satan). Why was Revelation ENCODED? Well for one if there had been a book written at that time that spoke about how Israel was being protected by God, when Rome had just destroyed Jerusalem and carried Jews away as slaves, the Romans would have seen that has treason/sedition. Rome being called a BEAST was also not a good idea etc. etc. Thus in order to get Rev. to the people, and to make sure the people reading such scriptures were not harmed, it had to be encoded. If the had wrote about Israel, and Rome we may not even have the book of Revelation, the Romans may have destroyed it. I imagine they looked at it and said John's a senile old kook.
There doesn't need to be a sign. Rev. 12:1-5 is a passed event. And we understand the prophecy, Israel is going to be chased into the wilderness by the Anti-Christ who is of the Dragon. When he can't get at Israel he starts killing Christians who became Christians after the Rapture, thus they are a REMNANT.
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SeventyOne
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There is no reason to ever consider it a past event. Four times in Revelation, we are told these are things that are still to take place (1:1, 1:19, 4:1, 22:6). Plus, I know people try to make it a picture of Jesus, but it doesn't fit the details of his ascension. This is something different.
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Revealing Times
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We can see that the Woman (Israel) birthing Jesus and Satan trying to kill him was a real time event. The vision is only describing who the PLAYERS ARE....Thus the vision is about a future event.
Rev. 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Is the a SIGN ALSO? Opps that doesn't fit the narrative.
Rev. 12 has nothing to do with a bunch of interconnected stars. I will be glad when Sep. 23 gets here. Will you guys still be here on that day is the question.
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SeventyOne
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It doesn't say it is a sign birthing Jesus. That's reading into it our own definitions. It says the manchild is born who will rule the nations with a rod of iron. And then it says the manchild is raptured, harpazo, which Jesus did not experience at His ascension.
Who do you think the manchild is? Who rules the nations with a rod of iron. Take some time with this one.
Completely different sign, not in the scope of this discussion.
That's a funny excuse I keep hearing. We are told in both the OT and NT there will be signs in the last days in the sun, moon, and the stars. Along comes Rev 12 which incorporates all three, and we are just supposed to ignore it because there will be no such actual sign using the sun, moon, and stars? You can ignore it if you wish. I won't be joining you.
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Revealing Times
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It is the male child not man child, that's your bad English translation.
#0730 G0142; TDNT - n/a; adj
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) a male
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
Probably from G0142; male (as stronger for lifting):—male, man.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)
- #730.
Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.”
Psalm 110:2 The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter. Rule in the midst of your enemies!
Who was to rule all Nations with a Rod of Iron. This is spoken of in the bible over and over. Jesus rules the Nations with a rod of Iron.
We have Genesis 37:9 that tells us who the Woman is...Israel. She had a male child that was hapazoed to Heaven to the throne of God.
Acts 7:55-56 But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing pat the right hand of God.”
Romans 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 1:20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at is right hand in the heavenly places,
Colossians 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Hebrews 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Jesus now sits at the Right hand of God.
Those two questions you asked was already a well known fact. They were a part of my equation.
And it proves that Rev. 12 doesn't have to be STARS IN HEAVEN !!!
Yes, the Sun, Moon and Stars will be DARKENED !!!!!
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SeventyOne
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I told you to take your time with that one. You quoted it, but you still missed it. Revelation 2:27, who is the "he" that will rule with a rod of iron? The overcomer. The members of His Church.
Jesus is spoken of as ruling with a rod of iron, but so are the members of His Church. Both will rule with a rod of iron, and He tells us as much, that in His Kingdom we will rule and reign with Him.
The manchild is not an individual, but a corporate entity. We are told many times that Jesus is the head of the body and we are the members of the body. When we are raptured, Both the living and dead members of the body will be reunited with the head and this new entity will rule the nations with a rod of iron.
Jesus was not raptured up as we are told the manchild is taken. The word used to describe His ascension is 'analambanō', meaning to take or receive. There is no implication of violence or forcefulness. In contrast, the Church and the manchild are described as departing by being snatched away with great force. I sure hope you can tell the difference.
No. It's something separate.
That one is almost laughable. As if that's all it says.
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Revealing Times
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NO....Its Jesus Christ. Come Sep. 24 you will see it bogus. And Jesus with the Rod of Iron is mentioned throughout the bible. And its MALE-CHILD.
Jesus was taken up............How else did he get to Heaven where the Father is? United Airlines?
Come Sep. 24 you guys will not show up.
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keras
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Your opinion conflicts with the Prophetic Word.
The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath will be a worldwide disaster by fire from the sun. As over 100 prophesies vividly describe. Isaiah 66:15-17, Zechariah 3:8, Rev 6:12-17 Everybody will be affected, Luke 21:34-35, but the Middle east area mostly. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 2:4-6 +
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SeventyOne
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It is most definitely Jesus, but it's also most definitely His Church as well. You posted the scripture yourself. Go back and read it with some honesty.
Yes, He was. I said that as well, but He wasn't raptured as the manchild is raptured.
That would likely be because come September 24th, we won't be here any longer.
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Revealing Times
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The Great and Terrible day of the Lord is Gods Judgment upon this world. Its the Seals/Trumpt and Vial Judgments.
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Revealing Times
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The Church will be Raptured to Heaven. Jesus has no part in what the vision represents per se, except he is in a story that's told, ENCODED so we will understand who the Woman and Dragon is. That's what the prophecy is about. Telling a story about PAST EVENTS is not a Prophecy.
The Prophecy is this, God wants us to know that Israel is chased into the Wilderness by the Anti-Christ just after Satan is cast down from Heaven by Micheal. God wants Jewish peoples to understand, IF they obey His voice and Flee to the Wilderness He will protect them for the whole 1260 days (42 months) that the Anti-Christ rules Jerusalem. He also warns us this evil tyrant will then turn his anger towards the Christians (Remnant of the Church that's been raptured) who follow Jesus Christ.
Rev. 12:6-17 is what the Prophecy is about. Rev. 12:1-5 is PAST EVENTS Jesus is telling us who the Woman/Male-child/Dragon is with this Story. That's all. You can't have a Prophecy about PAST EVENTS.
You do know the EXACT SAME WORD was used for both right? Harpazo means to be seized by force and taken up. The Holy Spirit took up Jesus and will take up the Church, BUT...it will happen before the Tribulation. The male-child is Jesus, not the Church, who is Raptured before the Tribulation.
If we are taken before Sep. 24, it will not be because of Stars aligned with Imaginary drawings.
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SeventyOne
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I'll say it one more time, then I'll just assume you don't care. Revelation tells us at least 4 times that John was seeing what was still yet to take place.
But I'll agree with you that you can't have prophecy about past events, but this is not a past event. Four times we are told it's in the future.
Actually, the ascension of Jesus was an entirely different word with a different meaning and is described in several places using the same word. I've already provided you with those details. He was never described as ascending 'harpazo' style.
Correct, it will be because of the actual sign in the sun, moon, and stars, as described in Revelation 12.
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keras
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The Day of the Lord's wrath, the Sixth Seal; will be a single day of fire from the sun. Many prophesies detail this devastation that the Lord will send. It will commence all the prophesied events to happen before the Return of Jesus.
But the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will last for 3 1/2 years and end with the Return.
Any other theory about the Revelation sequence, necessitates a shuffling of what is Written.
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Revealing Times
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You once again you your lack of bible knowledge. I have done a study of every place in the bible that speaks about the Day of the Lord. IF......You did the same, it would be evident its not ONE DAY, but a period of time when Gods Wrath Starts till it ends.
And Gods Wrath starts at Seal number ONE and end at Vial number SEVEN.
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keras
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Does having written over 500 articles on the subject of Bible prophecy constitute 'lack of knowledge'? logostelos.info
There is no doubt that the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire from the sun, will be a one Day event. Psalms 50:1-3, Isaiah 47:9, Zechariah 3:8-9, Isaiah 2:12, Ezekiel 7:10, + all state a single day that the Lord will judge and punish the nations. The great and terrible Day [Hebrew 'yom'] of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, the continuation of Isaiah 61:2 and the fulfilment of Isaiah 63:1-6
You are wrong that the Seals 1 to 5 are part of God's wrath, those Seals are open now and are simply the way the world has been and is now, with all the wars, famines, plagues and the murders of the martyrs. Caused by mans anger, greed, ignorance and cruelty.
Yes; God's wrath is also displayed during the Great Tribulation, but that is directed onto those who have taken the mark of the beast. God's wrath is completed after that, Revelation 15:1 and the destruction of Satan's armies at Armageddon isn't part of God's wrath, just His judgement.
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