Once Saved, Always Saved?

Thirty-four pages of Christians (only) debating as to whether or not Jesus did die to keep his eternal promise.

I wonder if Satan is chuckling that the denominational splits have accomplished generating these type questions in the OP. And more.

on page 35 now with your post.

VanillaSunflowers said:

Thirty-four pages of Christians (only) debating as to whether or not Jesus did die to keep his eternal promise.

I wonder if Satan is chuckling that the denominational splits have accomplished generating these type questions in the OP. And more.

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Mostly we can't discuss what you ask.

I don't think anyone was debating whether Y'SHUA died according to HIS WORD though, and was raised never to die again. (I>E> GOOD NEWS ! )
There was never any question of that, with anyone.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Still Simple.
No contradiction there.

What do you find not simple , if anything ? Perhaps that's where to start to show how simple it is.....

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Romans 5
12So then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned – 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam (who is a type of the coming one) transgressed.

This is the puzzling text.

Puzzle 1
The wages of sin is death. Adam sinned. He eventually died.

How can Adam sin if he has no knowledge of good and evil?

Puzzle 2
There was no law before Sinai.

Where there is no law there is no transgression.

Why did people still die?

Of course, Romans 7 has been puzzling scholars for centuries, but let's start with the less difficult.

A three year old trained in YHWH'S WORD could answer these in an instant.

Wordkeeper said:

The wages of sin is death. Adam sinned. He eventually died.
How can Adam sin if he has no knowledge of good and evil?

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Sin does not require knowledge of good and evil.

Wordkeeper said:

There was no law before Sinai.
Where there is no law there is no transgression.
Why did people still die?

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The penalty for sin is death.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

A three year old trained in YHWH'S WORD could answer these in an instant.
Sin does not require knowledge of good and evil.

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Why are children not prosecutable under the Penal Code?

The penalty for sin is death.

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But where there is no law sin is not counted.

Wordkeeper said:

Why are children not prosecutable under the Penal Code?

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When and where ?

Wordkeeper said:

But where there is no law sin is not counted.

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Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

YES, YES & YES-- AND DONT LET ANYONE TELL YOU OTHERWISE!

VanillaSunflowers said:

Thirty-four pages of Christians (only) debating as to whether or not Jesus did die to keep his eternal promise.

I wonder if Satan is chuckling that the denominational splits have accomplished generating these type questions in the OP. And more.

Click to expand...

John 1:11 "He came to His own - and His own received Him not" --

this is not a case of Christ failing to keep his eternal promise - wouldn't you agree?

what promise is Christ making in Matt 18?

Matt 18
31 So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 So My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

דוד חֵן (David) said:

Do we still believe

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interesting post bro and God (there are 4 lines in my post-two are in bold font, another in grey and blue font and another in grey font...the blue word is a link to my blog, where by the rules of this forum, i place prophetic words)

Wordkeeper said:

Romans 5
12So then, just as sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all people because all sinned – 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the same way that Adam (who is a type of the coming one) transgressed.

This is the puzzling text.

Puzzle 1
The wages of sin is death. Adam sinned. He eventually died.

How can Adam sin if he has no knowledge of good and evil?

Click to expand...

When the devil tempts Eve in Genesis 3 - she instantly responds with knowledge that what the Devil is asking her to do is wrong.

The "meaning" of "good and evil" in Genesis 2 and 3 does not mean "they did not know to do good - and did not know that what the devil asked was evil".

Puzzle 2
There was no law before Sinai.

Where there is no law there is no transgression.

Why did people still die?

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Genesis 26:5
5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

Gal 3:8 "The Gospel was preached to Abraham"

Genesis 6 and 7 - clean animals enter the ark in pairs of 7... unclean animals enter in pairs of 2. But clean-vs-unclean is not defined for Moses' readers until Leviticus 11. Fortunately for Moses' readers they had both Genesis and Exodus - to read.

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW"

Genesis 4 7 If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

Romans 5 "through one man - SIN entered into the world" -- speaking of Adam

So the first lesson is that the book of Genesis is not an exhaustive account of every word spoken for the first 3,000 years of earth's history.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

When and where ?

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In the Biblical times:

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 23. - Therefore said his parents, He is of full age; ask him. They would not incur responsibility for the opinions of their son about his Healer. They knew perfectly well that it was the Jesus who was said to be the Christ of the nation, and they would not implicate themselves in giving any judgment on his claims.

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/9-23.htm

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

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You're quoting Paul's words, where he is admitting he is puzzled why people died, paid the wages of breaking the law, even though there was no law, no breaking.

Wow! If you want to be a Bible teacher , don't give up your day job. And if you were a lawyer, I'd never hire you.

Wordkeeper said:

In the Biblical times:
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 23. - Therefore said his parents, He is of full age; ask him. They would not incur responsibility for the opinions of their son about his Healer. They knew perfectly well that it was the Jesus who was said to be the Christ of the nation, and they would not implicate themselves in giving any judgment on his claims.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/9-23.htm
You're quoting Paul's words, where he is admitting he is puzzled why people died, paid the wages of breaking the law, even though there was no law, no breaking.

Wow! If you want to be a Bible teacher , don't give up your day job. And if you were a lawyer, I'd never hire you.

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I wouldn't work for you, even for free. - You twisted the SCRIPTURES to try to suit your preconceived or otherwise erroneous beliefs,
as demonstrated in this post.
Keep it simple and as it is written instead of distorting it or trying to make it say something it doesn't say (I really thought you would try this, but you did it much more quickly than expected).

yeshuaslavejeff said:

I wouldn't work for you, even for free. - You twisted the SCRIPTURES to try to suit your preconceived or otherwise erroneous beliefs,
as demonstrated in this post.
Keep it simple and as it is written instead of distorting it or trying to make it say something it doesn't say (I really thought you would try this, but you did it much more quickly than expected).

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You claim that Scripture is easy to understand. Apparently, the following text, which shows that Scripture is encoded, needs decoding, is wrong:

Luke 24
32They said to one another, “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?” 33And they got up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem, and found gathered together the eleven and those who were with them, 34saying, “The Lord has really risen and has appeared to Simon.” 35They began to relate their experiences on the road and how He was recognized by them in the breaking of the bread.

36While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.”37But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43and He took it and ate it before them.

44Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

spiritman said:

How can one be dead twice if not alive at least once?

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How about THREE TIME?
Born dead in trespasses and sin.
Later shot or hung or poisoned or just buried, thus dead again.
Later resurrected to shame and judgment (for rejecting Y'SHUA MESSIAH and having an evil corrupt heart) and thrown wholly and finally into the lake of fire and destroyed forever.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

How about THREE TIME?
Born dead in trespasses and sin.
Later shot or hung or poisoned or just buried, thus dead again.
Later resurrected to shame and judgment (for rejecting Y'SHUA MESSIAH and having an evil corrupt heart) and thrown wholly and finally into the lake of fire and destroyed forever.

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If one was never born again that could be the case but the scripture refers to spiritual life and death, not physical. "twice dead".

spiritman said:

If one was never born again that could be the case but the scripture refers to spiritual life and death, not physical. "twice dead".

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COOL RELIEF ! REJOICING IN Y'SHUA _ (having now read your previous posts besides this one also)
They ALL (that I read) line up with what the FATHER in heaven revealed through Y'SHUA and what HE SHOWS in HIS WRITTEN WORD.
AS Y'SHUA said,
this will be seen when HE RETURNS,
shortly, YHWH WILLING.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

What you have posted (earlier, apparently) along with this does not seem to me to line up with what the FATHER in heaven revealed through Y'SHUA nor what HE SHOWS in HIS WRITTEN WORD.
Perhaps it does and is just semantics,
so keep it simple, fwiw, and perhaps this will be seen shortly, YHWH WILLING.

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Not sure what you mean. Please explain.