Once Saved, Always Saved?

Do you agree with OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved)?

  • Yes

  • No


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ldibart

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On one hand I think your question relies on it pointing to the unsaved. Secondly, the fruit we bear is not necessarily essential to salvation, especially if the world is judging us.

Once saved, always saved because actual salvation means actually saved. Not sort of saved like some folks are referring to. Their picture of saved is to confess publicly and be baptized in the proper order and ritual. But what does this say if their heart is a liar? It says their limbs will be cut and cast away. It says their fruit is rotten. It says their yield is chaff, not the wheat. It says that they are not the salt of the earth, but have lost their flavor.

If you take ALL of the Gospels into account and context then I can see your question pointing to the liars who confess they love Christ and call him saviour, but really don't. Fruit for some is all the see and that fruit can be false. Our fruits have to be visible to Christ, not the world. Have you ever done something in the name of Christ and then hid that you did it so that you would not receive credit? The world didn't see you do it so as far as they are concerned you "bore no fruit". However, Christ saw you, read your heart, accepted your deed, and impressed a jewel into your crown. Meanwhile, the world of the superficial church members will call you unfruitful and if unfruitful, unsaved. Maybe the liars have more impacted the percentage that vote they don't believe in OSAS. I thank God for His Love and never giving up on me. I have been weak and a sinner all my life and will be do the day I die. He knows that and Loves me anyway. He knows my heart is burdened with sin. He knows I do NOT wish to sin. OSAS is a gift. If not, the Bible, which is HIS WORD, is a liar.

Well said! someone was judging a brother. I said "who are you to say if someone is saved or not"? Fruits can be simply making others happy, it can be caring about a person that others would not , it can show up in your giving in small "insignificant" things you do.

IF you believe in Jesus this is what is required it is a MUST FIRST that belief is what is required for him to enter in FIRST .. OR does anyone actually think works while you are dead to God means anything?

Christ must FIRST enter proclaiming life in you BEFORE your works can mean anything at all ..GOD must accept you as a son and that is based on the simple belief in his son.After we will be chastened as needed and grow as Christ works in you!
 
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ldibart

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I see many teen accept Christ as a teen and when they enter the real world at 18, they either dont believe or live like a heathen or even worse than them.

So can one who accepts Christ as a teen, but then never lives a Christ like life, or even denies Christ because they were challenged by a atheist is college be considered someone going to Heaven.

Some will say they were never saved to begin with, but according to OSAS, once you accept Christ, you are set, but the bible blatantly says, those who live a lifestyle of Sexual immorality, Drunkeness, Idolatry, etc WILL NOT get into heaven.

SO all these teens nationwide that accept Christ at a young age and stray away, if they die before they repent, are they still good because of OSAS even though Jesus said otherwise?

IT is not our works that get us saved but Christs same way it is not our works that keep us saved only Christ

The only way for works to be valid to God is if he makes our dead spirits alive first and foremost this is the order of it..ALL are dead until Christ makes us alive in spirit.

In order for that to happen he must enter into our hearts .. WHEN that happens by believing in him truly believing in him not a just encase he is real i will accept him.

NOW our works that we do actually matter ..but before this they count as dirty rags ..

NOW is when he calls us sons because his son dwells in us we get chastised and we grow as he works in us.

We now bare fruit, fruits do not need to be seen or judged by humans we have no idea what or where God is working in a person life not even our own ..we actually get in the way of his working in us many times ..because oh i want to stop doing this and he is saying hey im working over here right now you know at the ROOT of the problem not the surface!

but yes some can say they believe and guess what NO they were never really saved and that is scriptural .

Works need to be done out of love not fear you do understand that works done from fear are unacceptable to the lord?

like all the works you do out of fear or ,not the right heart, later are burnt up as chaff .. you will remain and you will be saved for you belief in Christ because that belief is apparent by working because you know he is watching so there is proof or why bother to work?

but working to avoid hell is OPPOSITE of what should be

we work because we are going to heaven! because of joy because of who died for us .. ALL GLORY TO GOD none can boast ..

if you think your works are like keeping you saved? think again .. those works are suppose to be love offerings, thankful that you are saved! how can you perform proper works when you think its so you do not go to hell ..making it a form of legalism?
 
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sparow

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Jesus went to the underworld preached to the c


sorry I missed this ..the new testament talks about our father chatising his sons ..other interpertations called it beaten sore lol . "Or else bastards are we" Hebrews 12:6 states it .. also this shows that if he ACCEPTS us as sons we are saved BEFORE his return unlike what some posters think . SO if he calls us Sons we are indeed his son.

"Jesus went to the underworld" which scripture does this refer, 1 Peter 3:19?

When one uses the words "we" and "us", who is one referring to? Who would know who is saved? Salvation is offered to all but the road to life is narrow and few find it, most take the broad road to destruction;

Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Not everyone finds the way to eternal life and almost all who have are dead waiting resurrection, some have been waiting for two thousand years; for these who died saved they are sure of the first resurrection; for those who are living they can always fail to run the course; this can be learned from the messages to the seven churches at the beginning of Revelation.

If God accepts one as a son, one is home and hosed; but most assume they are called and chosen when it isn't necessarily so.
 
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ldibart

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"Jesus went to the underworld" which scripture does this refer, 1 Peter 3:19?

When one uses the words "we" and "us", who is one referring to? Who would know who is saved? Salvation is offered to all but the road to life is narrow and few find it, most take the broad road to destruction;

Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Not everyone finds the way to eternal life and almost all who have are dead waiting resurrection, some have been waiting for two thousand years; for these who died saved they are sure of the first resurrection; for those who are living they can always fail to run the course; this can be learned from the messages to the seven churches at the beginning of Revelation.

If God accepts one as a son, one is home and hosed; but most assume they are called and chosen when it isn't necessarily so.

Yes that is the scripture ..its debated and not really relevant to my point about how salvation works and why its only Christs choice to forgive or not one that he earned the right to. BUT at the time of his death many saints of old were released and appeared unto many.

we know the Saints of old could not have had a chance to accept and believe in Jesus ..so they had a chance to .would seem to make sense here that Jesus preached to many during his death in the under world and if you believe the only way to heaven is through Christ Jesus then those saints of old coming out and appearing to many would not be explainable unless Jesus spoke with them and forgave them of their sins as well
.
Christ did receive the Keys not only a KEY to Death .. but one of Hell too.. now we know he conquered death, it then makes sense that he conquered Hell as well and he partook of Death and gained that key so with saints of old and that scripture in peter plus knowing no one can be saved accept through the son .so I do not feel its an open and shut case on hell.

moving on I will answer what I think was the question i could be wrong

HE called them SONS before they were are in heaven showing that Gods HOME is also in them and on earth and in heaven as well .. and salvation has indeed come NOW .

When we were in sin we were dead our works were also dead the only way for our works to count at all is to be made alive and the only one that can make us alive is Christ. Our works could not and would not do anything to make christ come to us ..this leaves our works as dead as we were .

Next Christ MUST make us alive BEFORE our works begin to even count. This happens when he comes to us to give us a chance to accept him .. when we truly believe in him and not a "just encase hes real I will just accept"

.. NOW he makes us alive in spirit SAVED so we can now please God with our works .. we have become sons and daughters and are now chastised and we grow we do well and are rewarded as now this lines up with the scripture which clearly states

Hebrews 12:6-9
6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

The only way GOD himself will call anyone Sons is if they are saved this is proven by them being brought back from the dead in spirit and made alive in spirit able to now do works to please God or not please and are rewarded or chastised as SONS

Our works count now.... the WE or ... all those who have truly Believed thats the assumed" WE YOU THEY THEM WHOMEVER "..

and we work because we are saved we DO NOT work from trying to keep salvation as that brings our pride into it, it brings fear into,the more ME that is brought in the less of CHRIST is in it ya christ died for me BUT gee If i didnt work for it .. put plainly even your faith is a gift and without faith we could not be saved .. that shows just how little of US is suppose to be in it .all glory to GOD ..which is why the scripture "lest any man can boast"

we have NOTHING to do with our salvation not our works absolute nothing all glory to God ..the foundation.

Its the same kind of confusion that can be made without Christ as God in the flesh foundation ..as in this " the word was with God word was God" ..NOW thats a solid foundation .. BUT have lots of people with lots of scriptures .who was Jesus Praying too ..or who was he talking to on the cross .. rather than laying a rock solid foundation FIRST and building from there ..

its obvious God wants loved based works anyhow so we do works THANKFUL we are saved and praising singing his name worshiping rejoicing .. and if you slip up .. you have Love that picks you back up on your feet because its not over the fight continues because of love not because we fear his ultimate wrath of eternity we are not the children of wrath .. but of grace.

we do because we love ..
 
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sparow

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Yes that is the scripture ..its debated and not really relevant to my point about how salvation works and why its only Christs choice to forgive or not one that he earned the right to. BUT at the time of his death many saints of old were released and appeared unto many.

we know the Saints of old could not have had a chance to accept and believe in Jesus ..so they had a chance to .would seem to make sense here that Jesus preached to many during his death in the under world and if you believe the only way to heaven is through Christ Jesus then those saints of old coming out and appearing to many would not be explainable unless Jesus spoke with them and forgave them of their sins as well
.
Christ did receive the Keys not only a KEY to Death .. but one of Hell too.. now we know he conquered death, it then makes sense that he conquered Hell as well and he partook of Death and gained that key so with saints of old and that scripture in peter plus knowing no one can be saved accept through the son .so I do not feel its an open and shut case on hell.

moving on I will answer what I think was the question i could be wrong

HE called them SONS before they were are in heaven showing that Gods HOME is also in them and on earth and in heaven as well .. and salvation has indeed come NOW .

When we were in sin we were dead our works were also dead the only way for our works to count at all is to be made alive and the only one that can make us alive is Christ. Our works could not and would not do anything to make christ come to us ..this leaves our works as dead as we were .

Next Christ MUST make us alive BEFORE our works begin to even count. This happens when he comes to us to give us a chance to accept him .. when we truly believe in him and not a "just encase hes real I will just accept"

.. NOW he makes us alive in spirit SAVED so we can now please God with our works .. we have become sons and daughters and are now chastised and we grow we do well and are rewarded as now this lines up with the scripture which clearly states

Hebrews 12:6-9
6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

The only way GOD himself will call anyone Sons is if they are saved this is proven by them being brought back from the dead in spirit and made alive in spirit able to now do works to please God or not please and are rewarded or chastised as SONS

Our works count now.... the WE or ... all those who have truly Believed thats the assumed" WE YOU THEY THEM WHOMEVER "..

and we work because we are saved we DO NOT work from trying to keep salvation as that brings our pride into it, it brings fear into,the more ME that is brought in the less of CHRIST is in it ya christ died for me BUT gee If i didnt work for it .. put plainly even your faith is a gift and without faith we could not be saved .. that shows just how little of US is suppose to be in it .all glory to GOD ..which is why the scripture "lest any man can boast"

we have NOTHING to do with our salvation not our works absolute nothing all glory to God ..the foundation.

Its the same kind of confusion that can be made without Christ as God in the flesh foundation ..as in this " the word was with God word was God" ..NOW thats a solid foundation .. BUT have lots of people with lots of scriptures .who was Jesus Praying too ..or who was he talking to on the cross .. rather than laying a rock solid foundation FIRST and building from there ..

its obvious God wants loved based works anyhow so we do works THANKFUL we are saved and praising singing his name worshiping rejoicing .. and if you slip up .. you have Love that picks you back up on your feet because its not over the fight continues because of love not because we fear his ultimate wrath of eternity we are not the children of wrath .. but of grace.

we do because we love ..


We have problems, we are not on the same page possibly not in the same book. Underworld is not a Biblical concept, neither is hell Biblical. The words that are rendered "Hell" are Greek words that mean grave, tomb and rubbish tip and a couple of others.

1 Peter 3:19 (NKJV)
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

The KJV cross-references that with;

Isaiah 42:7 (NKJV)
7 To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the prison, Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.

You can read about sons of God here; Ge 6:2, 6:4. Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7. Jn 1:12. 1Jn 3:1, 3:2.

The epistle Hebrews is not a universal document it is part of a private debate; between unknown persons the Hebrews hadn't accepted or acknowledged the covenant. They were still killing sheep but the book of Malachi applied to them.


J
 
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ldibart

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We have problems, we are not on the same page possibly not in the same book. Underworld is not a Biblical concept, neither is hell Biblical. The words that are rendered "Hell" are Greek words that mean grave, tomb and rubbish tip and a couple of others.

1 Peter 3:19 (NKJV)
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

The KJV cross-references that with;

Isaiah 42:7 (NKJV)
7 To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the prison, Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.

You can read about sons of God here; Ge 6:2, 6:4. Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7. Jn 1:12. 1Jn 3:1, 3:2.

The epistle Hebrews is not a universal document it is part of a private debate; between unknown persons the Hebrews hadn't accepted or acknowledged the covenant. They were still killing sheep but the book of Malachi applied to them.


J
I see..SO God is going to resurrect the just and the unjust the just to go to heaven and the unjust so they can die where they just came from? God will wake an unjust person and say ..you did bad now go back to being dead ..ok so God will have unresolved feelings and wants to vent to this person.

Hebrews is not a legitimate gospel that came from God? is this what I am to understand ?

there is more than just hebrews that has believers as Gods Children .

galatians 3
Sons Through Faith in Christ

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
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sparow

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I see..SO God is going to resurrect the just and the unjust the just to go to heaven and the unjust so they can die where they just came from? God will wake an unjust person and say ..you did bad now go back to being dead ..ok so God will have unresolved feelings and wants to vent to this person.

Hebrews is not a legitimate gospel that came from God? is this what I am to understand ?

there is more than just hebrews that has believers as Gods Children .

galatians 3
Sons Through Faith in Christ

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

<<<I see..SO God is going to resurrect the just and the unjust the just to go to heaven and the unjust so they can die where they just came from? God will wake an unjust person and say ..you did bad now go back to being dead ..ok so God will have unresolved feelings and wants to vent to this person.>>>

That I do not understand; I'll have to guess; talking about the wicked, the scriptures say metaphorically or allegorically that they are burned like chaff or stubble; not an eternal event; after the resurrection of the wicked they are destroyed as they surround the new Jerusalem and this is the second death which differs from the first death in that from the second death no one can be resurrected because there is no memory of them, nothing exists that can be resurrected. These were burned to death but their punishment is not perpetual simply because they no longer exist.


I do not use Paul but very strangely "hell" does not appear in Paul's epistles.

Hades appears 8 times in the NT, is the name of a Pagan god and his underworld. If this word is valid in scripture it gives legitimacy to a mystic Pagan god and the Pagan underworld; I suspect the scriptures have been edited; in the Septuagint the word Sheol is used. Sheol is a dark place where the Hebrew dead go, but not well defined; it is the equivalent of, the dead sleepeth, and is more a state than a place.


<<<Hebrews is not a legitimate gospel that came from God? is this what I am to understand>>> I have never considered Hebrews to be a gospel of any kind.
 
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ldibart

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<<<I see..SO God is going to resurrect the just and the unjust the just to go to heaven and the unjust so they can die where they just came from? God will wake an unjust person and say ..you did bad now go back to being dead ..ok so God will have unresolved feelings and wants to vent to this person.>>>

That I do not understand; I'll have to guess; talking about the wicked, the scriptures say metaphorically or allegorically that they are burned like chaff or stubble; not an eternal event; after the resurrection of the wicked they are destroyed as they surround the new Jerusalem and this is the second death which differs from the first death in that from the second death no one can be resurrected because there is no memory of them, nothing exists that can be resurrected. These were burned to death but their punishment is not perpetual simply because they no longer exist.


I do not use Paul but very strangely "hell" does not appear in Paul's epistles.

Hades appears 8 times in the NT, is the name of a Pagan god and his underworld. If this word is valid in scripture it gives legitimacy to a mystic Pagan god and the Pagan underworld; I suspect the scriptures have been edited; in the Septuagint the word Sheol is used. Sheol is a dark place where the Hebrew dead go, but not well defined; it is the equivalent of, the dead sleepeth, and is more a state than a place.


<<<Hebrews is not a legitimate gospel that came from God? is this what I am to understand>>> I have never considered Hebrews to be a gospel of any kind.

the way this would make some sense is if those that are resurrected there, are given a chance or else why bother bringing them back again to just put them death again?

See but to believe there is a heaven it is spiritual place where the word was . The word existed before creation as we know . Now the word became flesh . so Jesus being the word is a dwelling in flesh as he obviously did indeed exist before his flesh.

I am saying this because if you believe hell OR Sheol which i do know that word is only meaning the grave essentially..and you believe no place exists where the unsaved go that place being a hell a prison for souls maybe more so spirits

I got to be assuming you do not believe we have a soul?

SO Jesus had a soul the word . and samuel was conjured up by the witch at endor

NOW I have heard this objection that she did not actually conjure up Samuel but some demon .. that then judges Saul but a demon cannot proclaim a righteous judgement of God

either way, when you have a man filled "legion for we are many" and then they are cast into the swine by Jesus and a physical reaction takes place which was to run into the sea

you have female taunting the apostles saying these are men of god .doing this for a long time ..

Acts 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

the spirit that came out was masculine so the word HE is used in KJV

so I say this, IF our bodies can house demons and they can control you and if Jesus had a soul or spirit ..as I understand the word soul refers to the body as well So for less confusion i will say a spirit .. then I have to say that we do indeed have spirits and if that is the case they go somewhere.
 
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sparow

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the way this would make some sense is if those that are resurrected there, are given a chance or else why bother bringing them back again to just put them death again?

See but to believe there is a heaven it is spiritual place where the word was . The word existed before creation as we know . Now the word became flesh . so Jesus being the word is a dwelling in flesh as he obviously did indeed exist before his flesh.

I am saying this because if you believe hell OR Sheol which i do know that word is only meaning the grave essentially..and you believe no place exists where the unsaved go that place being a hell a prison for souls maybe more so spirits

I got to be assuming you do not believe we have a soul?

SO Jesus had a soul the word . and samuel was conjured up by the witch at endor

NOW I have heard this objection that she did not actually conjure up Samuel but some demon .. that then judges Saul but a demon cannot proclaim a righteous judgement of God

either way, when you have a man filled "legion for we are many" and then they are cast into the swine by Jesus and a physical reaction takes place which was to run into the sea

you have female taunting the apostles saying these are men of god .doing this for a long time ..

Acts 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

the spirit that came out was masculine so the word HE is used in KJV

so I say this, IF our bodies can house demons and they can control you and if Jesus had a soul or spirit ..as I understand the word soul refers to the body as well So for less confusion i will say a spirit .. then I have to say that we do indeed have spirits and if that is the case they go somewhere.


God hasn't told us everything and if he did our understanding would not necessarily increase. Knowledge of the resurrections is not essential to our salvation; the first resurrection involves a process that produces eternal life; the second resurrection involves a process that produces the second death; the second death is the metaphorical burning of the chaff, the disposing of the wicked. God has gone to extraordinary lengths in extending the option of salvation to us such that if we fail we only have ourselves to blame.

Somewhere in the OT it says when we die something returns to God; I assume that something is what came from God when we were born; God breaths breath into us; when we read "spirit" in the OT a correct translation would be breath, breeze or wind; for the Hebrew their concepts of spirit was empirical, that is what they could observe.

Biblically speaking I have not a soul, I am a soul and because I am breathing I am a living soul; should I stop breathing I would be a dead soul. The dictionary describes soul as spirit and this leads to ambiguity or paradox in the early verses of Genesis.

First spirit is a Latin word and therefore Pagan and for this reason we should not put too much meaning into words but concentrate on the meaning of scripture. God is able to enter into our soul in many ways; apart from breathing God can dwell in us; Satan entered into Judas and evil spirits are always around.

In the Hebrew language and mindset there is no neutral gender; there are rules for applying gender male or female to inanimate objects. If the scriptures were not Hebrew, it not "HE" would apply to God, spirit and Satan.

Evil spirits and Satan have been cast down to earth, so the earth is their domain and prison; at this time mankind has the temporary and provisional use of God's spirit (breath) during our life.
 
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