Why are so many protestants anti-Catholic and/or anti-Orthodox

KawaiiChristianGal

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(I didn't know you were oneness)
but no 'worry'.
Even oneness gets some/ much? / right according to / in line with YHWH'S WORD.
Even the scribes and pharisees who teach TORAH got some things right - Y'SHUA said so
and
told HIS DISCIPLES to listen to them (the very ones who crucified HIM)
WHEN they taught TORAH, but not to live like they lived.
Likewise the Bereans, and the Apostles, all
said
"TEST EVERYTHING" by YHWH'S WORD. Every Message, every messenger, every day
and DO NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING that is CONTRARY to YHWH'S WORD. Nothing. Not one thing.
If it is contrary to YHWH'S WORD, *** REJECT *** it. DO NOT accept it.
No matter WHO SAYS IT. [angel, Paul, Apollos, priest, scribe, pharisee, pope, bishop, pastor, teacher, prophet] ....
No matter who.

Agreed. Even though I believe that the Godhead resides in our Lord Jesus Christ, I still know that I am only human and I can never fully fathom everything contained in scripture but I willing to try my best ya know... I can never hold a mere man like the pop, a pharisee, a bishop, a pastor whatever above the Word of God. Sadly many individuals elevate man and his opinions above scripture. We should definitely test everything for sure! I think well actually I don't think I KNOW that all these denominations that claim they are the only true church / saved individuals will be shocked when they get to heaven (if they do get get there anyway) that they are not the only saved individuals out there! :p
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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"The verses which I have read give us four aspects of this great truth of union with Jesus Christ; or of its converse, separation from Him."

Great verses often never read. Living IN UNION with Y'SHUA now, today, on earth,
saved and knowing it. (Completely sure of SALVATION in Y'SHUA NOW, TODAY, on earth in this life)
 
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Monk Brendan

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What are you trying to say? You trying to say I am not a "Christian"?

No, I'm just asking about your earlier statement;
Yes I follow Jesus and His Word, I am not joined to any denomination. I am Oneness mixed with WoF but those are movements and not denominations but even then scripture comes first. :p

If you are following His Word, you would believe in:
Hebrews 10:25
Phil 1:1
1 Tim 4:14 (the last two demonstrate a hierarchical, anointed form of ministry)
John 6:35
Matt 26:26-30 (A demonstration of the True Presence of God in the Eucharist)
Luke 1:26-38 (the virginal conception and birth of Jesus), and much more that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches teach.
 
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KawaiiChristianGal

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No, I'm just asking about your earlier statement;


If you are following His Word, you would believe in:
Hebrews 10:25
Phil 1:1
1 Tim 4:4 (the last two demonstrate a hierarchical, anointed form of ministry)
John 6:35
Matt 26:26-30 (A demonstration of the True Presence of God in the Eucharist)
Luke 1:26-38 (the virginal conception and birth of Jesus), and much more that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches teach.

And I can guarantee none of those verses mention or even reference the Catholic Church, not one.
As for the virgin birth who said I denied that? I don't deny that at all, but what I do deny is the alleged perpetual virginity theory. Mary clearly had other children...
 
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KawaiiChristianGal

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Useful verse: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28.19).

Yes I agree but I also agree that we should also baptize in Jesus name if individuals choose so as both are valid.
 
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faroukfarouk

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And I can guarantee none of those verses mention or even reference the Catholic Church, not one.
As for the virgin birth who said I denied that? I don't deny that at all, but what I do deny is the alleged perpetual virginity theory. Mary clearly had other children...
Matthew 1 says Mary 'brought forth her firstborn Son' ('firstborn', i.e., there were others).
 
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Monk Brendan

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And I can guarantee none of those verses mention or even reference the Catholic Church, not one.

You may or may not believe this, but the Orthodox/Catholic Church was the one Church that Jesus Christ founded. If you can find another that has a provable continuous history back to the Apostles, and can reference that on the internet, I will investigate it.
 
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Monk Brendan

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Mary clearly had other children...

Oh? Are you talking about the verses in the Gospel that reference Jesus' brothers? They were Joseph's sons from his previous wife, he being a widower.
 
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faroukfarouk

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You may or may not believe this, but the Orthodox/Catholic Church was the one Church that Jesus Christ founded. If you can find another that has a provable continuous history back to the Apostles, and can reference that on the internet, I will investigate it.
Jude speaks of 'the faith once delivered to the saints'. This does not mean a body of doctrine cannot be understood or received from the Scriptures as the Holy Spirit enlightens, except by particular denominations only. We could all list out things which particular denominations do and teach but which are not necessarily according to God's Word.
 
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KawaiiChristianGal

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Oh? Are you talking about the verses in the Gospel that reference Jesus' brothers? They were Joseph's sons from his previous wife, he being a widower.

Maybe in the apocrypha he was a widower but not in my Bible... then again I'm not a theologian... I have to believe the Bible and the Bible says that he knew her not UNTIL the child was born that's letting me know there was an eventual consummation there. Mary is not a perpetual virgin there is absolutely no proof for that catholic theory whatsoever. Mary is not a god or goddess she was a human with humanistic needs and wants, she was married to Joseph she had every right to consummate her marriage to him. In fact if Mary could speak now she'd say don't worship me I am merely a human.
 
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KawaiiChristianGal

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Jude speaks of 'the faith once delivered to the saints'. This does not mean a body of doctrine cannot be understood or received from the Scriptures as the Holy Spirit enlightens, except by particular denominations only. We could all list out things which particular denominations do and teach but which are not necessarily according to God's Word.

He cannot see that, Catholics will always claim they have the only and only true way because that's been beat in their head for so long, truth is Jesus is the only way. I personally shy away from any and all denominations that make such claims.
 
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Monk Brendan

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I have to believe the Bible and the Bible says that he knew her not UNTIL the child was born that's letting me know there was an eventual consummation there. Mary is not a perpetual virgin there is absolutely no proof for that catholic theory whatsoever. Mary is not a god or goddess she was a human with humanistic needs and wants, she was married to Joseph she had every right to consummate her marriage to him. In fact if Mary could speak now she'd say don't worship me I am merely a human.

To touch on your last point first, All she has ever done is point to Jesus. If an apparition shows up saying anything other than trust in God, then that apparition is false, and comes from the devil.

As far as your point of Mary not being ever virgin, look up the word "until" and do a study of the origins of this word. You'll be surprised.
 
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Monk Brendan

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Jude speaks of 'the faith once delivered to the saints'.

This is the Apostolic faith that has been passed down by the Fathers, taught by bishops, and believed by the faithful since that first Pentecost. That is the Catholic/Orthodox Christian Church
 
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Monk Brendan

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I have to believe the Bible and the Bible says that he knew her not UNTIL the child was born that's letting me know there was an eventual consummation there.

From "On the Ever-Virginity of the Theotokos (Mother of God)"
by Bishop Lazar Puhalo

The "brethren" of Jesus are mentioned several times in the New Testament. Four are mentioned by name. To explain who they were is not difficult, because the Scripture itself names four of them and identifies their parentage. Matthew (13:55) and Mark (6:3) list, as brethren of Jesus, James, Joses, Simon and Jude.

We know for certain that James and Joses were not sons of Mary or Joseph, for the Scripture identifies them, as children of a different Mary, who was the wife of Alphaeus-Cleopas (Matthew 27:56 ; Mark 15:40). James is also referred to as the "son of Alphaeus", in the listing of the Apostles (Matthew 10:3 ; Mark 3:18 ; Luke 6:15 ; Acts 1:13). The relationship between these "brethren" (including "sisters") must be seen in the context of Hebrew-Aramaic tradition, according to which even cousins were called brothers and sisters. This is the case also in Greek and Slavic languages and cultures to this day, so we do not have to speculate about it. This is a fact we know very well from our own families and lives. We have a perfect example of this in the Old Testament Scripture. The word used to describe the relationship between Lot and Abraham at Genesis 14:16 is "adelphi" in the original Greek, which can only be translated as "brother" in English. Nevertheless, we know that Lot was Abraham's nephew. The Greek word "adelphos" and "adelphi" are only attempts to translate an unknown Aramaic word - and no one has any idea what the actual word was which is rendered in Greek and English as "brothers" or "brethren".

There could have been no "first blood" brothers of Christ, otherwise He would not have given the care of His mother to St. John the Theologian (John 19:26) at the foot of the Cross. Indeed, Christ would have done His 'brothers' great disrespect and harm if He had done this ! The Old Testament prophecies explain the virginal marriage and ever-virginity of Christ's mother, and we also have the testimony of the Holy Spirit speaking through the Church that Mary is "Ever-Virgin".

Further evidence from the Holy Scriptures that in the Hebrew tradition "brothers" and "sisters" are not necessarily siblings. Our Orthodox Tradition teaches us that the Holy Virgin Mary was the only child of Saints Joakhim and Anna, but at John 19:25 we read, "Standing near the Cross of Jesus was His mother, and His mother's sister, Mary of Klopas, and Mary magdala." If our Church history is correct, how could Mary have had a sister? The first clue to our answer is that both women are named Mary. ! No family has two daughters and gives them both the same name! Therefore it is evident that the relationship between the two women has to be something different than our modern English concept of "sister". The second clue to our answer is that the Bible clearly identifies this Mary of Klopas (Cleopas in KJV), as the mother of Jesus' "brothers". The name Klopas or Cleopas is the same as Alphaeus in the Aramaic language which Jesus spoke. Therefore the so-called brothers of Jesus mentioned at Mark 6:3 are elsewhere clearly identified as the sons of Alphaeus and his wife Mary of Klopas - the "sister" of the Virgin Mary.

Thus the Scriptures show that the "brothers" of Christ are not His brothers, but some relation. There is no scriptural evidence to support the notion that the Virgin Mary bore any other children apart from Jesus Christ our God.

Seeing Him born as an infant in Bethlehem. Let all creation glorify Him!

All Glory be to Jesus Christ our God.
 
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KawaiiChristianGal

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From "On the Ever-Virginity of the Theotokos (Mother of God)"
by Bishop Lazar Puhalo

The "brethren" of Jesus are mentioned several times in the New Testament. Four are mentioned by name. To explain who they were is not difficult, because the Scripture itself names four of them and identifies their parentage. Matthew (13:55) and Mark (6:3) list, as brethren of Jesus, James, Joses, Simon and Jude.

We know for certain that James and Joses were not sons of Mary or Joseph, for the Scripture identifies them, as children of a different Mary, who was the wife of Alphaeus-Cleopas (Matthew 27:56 ; Mark 15:40). James is also referred to as the "son of Alphaeus", in the listing of the Apostles (Matthew 10:3 ; Mark 3:18 ; Luke 6:15 ; Acts 1:13). The relationship between these "brethren" (including "sisters") must be seen in the context of Hebrew-Aramaic tradition, according to which even cousins were called brothers and sisters. This is the case also in Greek and Slavic languages and cultures to this day, so we do not have to speculate about it. This is a fact we know very well from our own families and lives. We have a perfect example of this in the Old Testament Scripture. The word used to describe the relationship between Lot and Abraham at Genesis 14:16 is "adelphi" in the original Greek, which can only be translated as "brother" in English. Nevertheless, we know that Lot was Abraham's nephew. The Greek word "adelphos" and "adelphi" are only attempts to translate an unknown Aramaic word - and no one has any idea what the actual word was which is rendered in Greek and English as "brothers" or "brethren".

There could have been no "first blood" brothers of Christ, otherwise He would not have given the care of His mother to St. John the Theologian (John 19:26) at the foot of the Cross. Indeed, Christ would have done His 'brothers' great disrespect and harm if He had done this ! The Old Testament prophecies explain the virginal marriage and ever-virginity of Christ's mother, and we also have the testimony of the Holy Spirit speaking through the Church that Mary is "Ever-Virgin".

Further evidence from the Holy Scriptures that in the Hebrew tradition "brothers" and "sisters" are not necessarily siblings. Our Orthodox Tradition teaches us that the Holy Virgin Mary was the only child of Saints Joakhim and Anna, but at John 19:25 we read, "Standing near the Cross of Jesus was His mother, and His mother's sister, Mary of Klopas, and Mary magdala." If our Church history is correct, how could Mary have had a sister? The first clue to our answer is that both women are named Mary. ! No family has two daughters and gives them both the same name! Therefore it is evident that the relationship between the two women has to be something different than our modern English concept of "sister". The second clue to our answer is that the Bible clearly identifies this Mary of Klopas (Cleopas in KJV), as the mother of Jesus' "brothers". The name Klopas or Cleopas is the same as Alphaeus in the Aramaic language which Jesus spoke. Therefore the so-called brothers of Jesus mentioned at Mark 6:3 are elsewhere clearly identified as the sons of Alphaeus and his wife Mary of Klopas - the "sister" of the Virgin Mary.

Thus the Scriptures show that the "brothers" of Christ are not His brothers, but some relation. There is no scriptural evidence to support the notion that the Virgin Mary bore any other children apart from Jesus Christ our God.

Seeing Him born as an infant in Bethlehem. Let all creation glorify Him!

All Glory be to Jesus Christ our God.

The Bible says it was there actual children.... so I don't see where you're getting all this from.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The Bible says it was there actual children.... so I don't see where you're getting all this from.

The problem is that the Catholic Church painted itself into this corner when the Pope dogmatized the doctrine of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary in 1950. As a result, they are forced to deny the very clear wording in their own Bibles of the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ. To do so requires some really peculiar and imaginative hoop-jumping.
 
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KawaiiChristianGal

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The problem is that the Catholic Church painted itself into this corner when the Pope dogmatized the doctrine of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary in 1950. As a result, they are forced to deny the very clear wording in their own Bibles of the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ. To do so requires some really peculiar and imaginative hoop-jumping.

So true
 
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prodromos

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To do so requires some really peculiar and imaginative hoop-jumping.
Only if you are Catholic and of the variety which believes Joseph was also a virgin. Otherwise, no hoop jumping required.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Only if you are Catholic and of the variety which believes Joseph was also a virgin. Otherwise, no hoop jumping required.

Thank you. I agree with you concerning the Catholic explanation. I also appreciate the fact that the Eastern Orthodox Churches have not elevated this doctrine to the status of a dogma which is essential for salvation.

Rather than put words in your mouth, I think it would benefit us all for you to explain the Eastern Orthodox understanding.
 
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