Easiest Defense of Sola Scriptura
- Thread starter AnticipateHisComing
- Start date
Are you referring to " On this Rock I shall build my Church" to mean that Christ was building His church on Peter?
Upvote
0
Albion
Facilitator
That could take some doing, but the key threads are, I think, "the easiest defense...," the issues with...," and "first century Christians...."
I'm relieved to learn that to be the case.
No, that's simply not to be found in Scripture...and why would it, since "Holy Tradition" or "Sacred Tradition" is a creation of a much later time (after some legends and customs in the first several centuries AD had time to develop)?
Upvote
0
The whole of the OT was in existence at the time of Christ. He even read it in the synagogue. He, at one point read a scripture and announced that the listeners had witnessed the prophesy coming to fulfillment at that moment. He was reading from Isaiah. This is recorded in Luke 4: 16-21.
The scriptures have been around from long before Christ. The NT was written after. Just because someone put them in one book later doesn't mean that we didn't have them.
Upvote
0
fhansen
Oldbie
Words were written according to the need: the eye-witness accounts on the part of the gospels, the ongoing story of the early church in ACTS, the various letters as the apostles were moved to write them as the churches needed guidance, admonishment, instruction, etc. But even as Scripture tells us, not everything was written down. And there never was a reason for us to insist that they should've all been recorded. The NT was simply not intended to be a catechism. Either way the church possessed the message and preserved it and proclaimed it-the Word was in her heart from the beginning.
Upvote
0
Thursday
Well-Known Member
Jesus told us to listen to the Church. Not everything Jesus taught is in the bible.
What did Jesus teach here?
Acts 1
3After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God
Upvote
0
- May 28, 2015
- 14,610
- 7,108
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Constitution
Late 4th century; when did you get the news?
Actually it was a long process:
Edit
For the New Testament, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the New Testament books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke’s writings to be as authoritative as the Old Testament (1 Timothy 5:18; see also Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7). Peter recognized Paul’s writings as Scripture (2 Peter 3:15-16). Some of the books of the New Testament were being circulated among the churches (Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight New Testament books (A.D. 95). Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (A.D. 115). Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (A.D. 108). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (A.D. 185). Hippolytus recognized 22 books (A.D. 170-235). The New Testament books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, and 3 John.
The first “canon” was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in AD 170. The Muratorian Canon included all of the New Testament books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In AD 363, the Council of Laodicea stated that only the Old Testament (along with one book of the Apocrypha) and 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) were canonical and to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (AD 393) and the Council of Carthage (AD 397) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoritative.
The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a New Testament book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: 1) Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? 2) Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? 3) Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? 4) Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God’s imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.
gotquestions.org
Last edited:
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
The true word is Living, the written word is of man writing about God. The Christian church may establish membership rules around SS but that doesn't mean the scripture is all true. There are many mistakes in scripture but no mistakes in God.
Upvote
0
- Dec 15, 2015
- 31
- 11
- 75
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
The so called man made or man managed interpretation of the scripture is doing so with the Holy Spirit King David had a sort of Prime Minister who acted on the king's behalf. King David's had his back in performing the duties of his king He acted on the king's behalf when the king.
The Pope is Jesus's Prime Minister on earth. He acts on Jesus's behalf as directed by the Holy Spirit. In the Catholic Church, Scripture interpretation is done by the Magisterium and it has to be unanimous.
With respect to Sola Scriptura, where are the scriptures that Protestants make this claim from? Colossians? I don't remember, but I have read it. I have one question to ask about that passage. What Scriptures was the Apostle using besides the Old Testament Scriptures. When he talked about the New Testament, he couldn't have been reading from the New Testament because it was not written at that point. He use from what He saw and what he learned from the other Apostles who were live witnesses to events in Jesus's life. So how does this Sola Scriptura work?
The Pope is Jesus's Prime Minister on earth. He acts on Jesus's behalf as directed by the Holy Spirit. In the Catholic Church, Scripture interpretation is done by the Magisterium and it has to be unanimous.
With respect to Sola Scriptura, where are the scriptures that Protestants make this claim from? Colossians? I don't remember, but I have read it. I have one question to ask about that passage. What Scriptures was the Apostle using besides the Old Testament Scriptures. When he talked about the New Testament, he couldn't have been reading from the New Testament because it was not written at that point. He use from what He saw and what he learned from the other Apostles who were live witnesses to events in Jesus's life. So how does this Sola Scriptura work?
Upvote
0
I find this hysterical. In that its accurate.
Given that most atheist who follow internet forums normally and purposely argue that they have one underlying truth alongside captain obvious, and that is that when they argue what they believe themselves it's always something that is glaring obvious and cant be mistaken for anything else.
Which is sorely pathetic.
There are incredibly smart Christian all over the world who completely understand that what they believe in isn't abundantly obvious.
And knowing that these Christians are extremely intelligent and understand that what they believe in takes exactly a miracle to explain, and they still believe in it.
That my friends is courage and takes strength beyond that of something that someone who only has courage enough to believe in the obvious will never understand.
So if you want the bible explained to you in a way that makes believing it obvious, you'll have to change who you are. You probably dont have that much courage.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
sculleywr
Orthodox Colitis Survivor
- Jul 23, 2011
- 7,789
- 683
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Engaged
- Politics
- US-Others
The problem I have with SS is not the first premise, but the second. The only incontrovertibly True Word of God is Jesus Christ. When anyone claims that the Scripture is incontrovertibly true, then they must explain why two gospels disagree on many things, such as whether Jesus was entering or exiting Jericho when he healed the blind man at the gate.
Another problem is that Scripture points to an Oral Tradition that is equal in authority to the written Tradition of the Scripture (II Thessalonians 2:15 refers to the Tradition they were commanded to follow as being both written and oral).
Finally, SS is a doctrine that cannot be fully followed, since one cannot ever say that Scripture is above the Canon, since the Canon is not part of Scripture. The Canon comes above Scripture, because it defines Scripture's content.
Upvote
0
- Sep 24, 2010
- 5,709
- 3,505
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
The Holy Spirit is the Supreme Authority in the Spiritual interpretation and Application of Scripture. (I love capital letters when referring to that which is Holy).
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Mar 18, 2014
- 38,116
- 34,054
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Glad we have this opportunity:
Chapter I
Of the Holy Scripture
Westminster Confession of Faith
I. Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable;[1] yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation.[2] Therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal Himself, and to declare that His will unto His Church;[3] and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing;[4] which makes the Holy Scripture to be most necessary;[5] those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now ceased.[6]
II. Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testament, which are these: Of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, The Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi. Of the New Testament: The Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul's Epistles to the Romans, Corinthians I, Corinthians II, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians I , Thessalonians II , To Timothy I , To Timothy II, To Titus, To Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, The Epistle of James, The first and second Epistles of Peter, The first, second, and third Epistles of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation of John. All which are given by inspiration of God to be the rule of faith and life.[7]
III. The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon of the Scripture, and therefore are of no authority in the Church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved, or made use of, than other human writings.[8]
IV. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.[9]
V. We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture.[10] And the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is, to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it does abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God: yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts.[11]
VI. The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men.[12] Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word:[13] and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed.[14]
VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all:[15] yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.[16]
VIII. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;[17] so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.[18] But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them,[19] therefore they are to be translated in to the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,[20] that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner;[21] and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.[22]
IX. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.[23]
X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24]
http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church on Sacred Scriptures:
102 Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:64
You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time.65
103 For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord's Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God's Word and Christ's Body.66
104 In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it not as a human word, "but as what it really is, the word of God".67 "In the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven comes lovingly to meet his children, and talks with them."68
II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70
107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."72
108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living".73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures."74
III. THE HOLY SPIRIT, INTERPRETER OF SCRIPTURE
109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75
110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76
[.....................................]
135 "The Sacred Scriptures contain the Word of God and, because they are inspired, they are truly the Word of God" (DV 24).
More here:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a3.htm
Upvote
0
- Sep 24, 2010
- 5,709
- 3,505
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Upvote
0
- Mar 18, 2014
- 38,116
- 34,054
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Good afternoon great to see you about again. Hope all is well brother.
I agree Paul did tell his followers to abide by the traditions he taught them.
What exactly was he referring to? What were the traditions he was teaching them to uphold that we do not have revealed in the NT?
Upvote
0
- Sep 24, 2010
- 5,709
- 3,505
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Albion
Facilitator
We've seen the Westminster Confession posted here before, but all of this, official as it is, seems to me likely to overwhelm the average reader. I think that this treatment from Theopedia may do the job as well as anything--
Scripture alone
Scripture alone (from the Reformation slogan Sola Scriptura) is the teaching that Scripture is the Church's only infallible and sufficient rule for deciding issues of faith and practices that involve doctrines. While the Bible does not contain all knowledge, it does contain that which is necessary for salvation. Indeed, if something is not found in Scripture, it is not binding upon the believer. This view does not deny that the Church has the authority to teach God's Word. Furthermore, while tradition is valuable, it but must be tested by the higher authority of the Scriptures.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
