Question For Evolutionists

EastCoastRemnant

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If adaptation to environmental change that threatens a species existence is one of the primary catalysts for a change in family, class, phylum or kingdom, why have we not seen evidence of this in the last hundred years with all the extinction that's been going on?

If evolution is a valid hypothesis, then the accelerated rate of extinction happening surely would produce the conditions necessary for an observable change, right?
 

Job8

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If adaptation to environmental change that threatens a species existence is one of the primary catalysts for a change in family, class, phylum or kingdom, why have we not seen evidence of this in the last hundred years with all the extinction that's been going on?
The evolutionist would say 100 years is insufficient. We need 1,000,000 years.:help:
 
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Justme

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If adaptation to environmental change that threatens a species existence is one of the primary catalysts for a change in family, class, phylum or kingdom, why have we not seen evidence of this in the last hundred years with all the extinction that's been going on?

If evolution is a valid hypothesis, then the accelerated rate of extinction happening surely would produce the conditions necessary for an observable change, right?

The species that is becoming extinct is responding to habitat pressure. These days it is generally a fast environmental impact such as killing of the species for some form of financial gain. Like the rhino horn thing.
The dino lost it's habitat due to a sudden catastrophic natural event. You can see the result of that one about 200 feet down in certain escarpment where erosion has had it's way for 60 million years. There is a layer of ash maybe a foot deep that is clearly visible.
 
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PloverWing

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In general, natural selection requires many generations to produce a population that is well-adapted to a new situation. The parents who best fit their environment tend to produce more surviving children, then repeat, repeat, through many generations of children. It's a probabilistic trend, not an overnight change.

Bacteria reproduce very quickly, which is why we can see populations of antibiotic-resistant bacteria develop within only a few decades. But large animals will produce only a few generations in a century, not nearly quickly enough for natural selection to have much visible effect in such a short time.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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In general, natural selection requires many generations to produce a population that is well-adapted to a new situation. The parents who best fit their environment tend to produce more surviving children, then repeat, repeat, through many generations of children. It's a probabilistic trend, not an overnight change.

Bacteria reproduce very quickly, which is why we can see populations of antibiotic-resistant bacteria develop within only a few decades. But large animals will produce only a few generations in a century, not nearly quickly enough for natural selection to have much visible effect in such a short time.
So when a frog became a squirrel, for example, it took several generations for that to happen... like the first generation was a furry toad, the second, a furry toad that gathered and somehow ate nuts and then the final generation that became the squirrel... makes me wonder why the organism didn't just keep evolving. How did it know it was supposed to stop at a squirrel and not continue on to hedgehog status?

So many questions and so many baseless theories to throw at them...
 
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PloverWing

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So when a frog became a squirrel, for example, it took several generations for that to happen... like the first generation was a furry toad, the second, a furry toad that gathered and somehow ate nuts and then the final generation that became the squirrel... makes me wonder why the organism didn't just keep evolving. How did it know it was supposed to stop at a squirrel and not continue on to hedgehog status?

Okay, so if this is going to be a full-out debate about the validity of evolutionary biology, I'll have to bow out soon. A professional biologist will be in a better position to answer questions about cladistics and genetics than I am. But here are two of the important points.

1) No one claims that frogs developed into squirrels. Instead, biologists claim that frogs and squirrels have a common ancestor. Frogs, squirrels, and their common ancestor share many traits in common: Four limbs, two eyes, a bony skeleton with a spine, and so on.

2) Squirrels aren't more evolved than frogs. Rather, squirrels and frogs are both extremely well adapted to their two environments. Frogs are great at catching insects that live near ponds, and squirrels are amazing tree-climbers. There's no particular reason for either species to change as long as we still have ponds and trees. Some species of plants and animals have been around for a very long time. The squirrel population continues to be squirrel-like instead of becoming hedgehog-like, because squirrels are better tree-climbers than hedgehogs, so they're better adapted to the treetop environments they live in. Hedgehogs are also well-adapted, but to a different environment.

(Note: If a squirrel is ever born with a genetic mutation that makes it run away from cars instead of toward them, it'll out-survive all the other squirrels in my neighborhood, and its descendants will take over the suburbs. :) )
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Okay, so if this is going to be a full-out debate about the validity of evolutionary biology, I'll have to bow out soon. A professional biologist will be in a better position to answer questions about cladistics and genetics than I am. But here are two of the important points.

1) No one claims that frogs developed into squirrels. Instead, biologists claim that frogs and squirrels have a common ancestor. Frogs, squirrels, and their common ancestor share many traits in common: Four limbs, two eyes, a bony skeleton with a spine, and so on.

2) Squirrels aren't more evolved than frogs. Rather, squirrels and frogs are both extremely well adapted to their two environments. Frogs are great at catching insects that live near ponds, and squirrels are amazing tree-climbers. There's no particular reason for either species to change as long as we still have ponds and trees. Some species of plants and animals have been around for a very long time. The squirrel population continues to be squirrel-like instead of becoming hedgehog-like, because squirrels are better tree-climbers than hedgehogs, so they're better adapted to the treetop environments they live in. Hedgehogs are also well-adapted, but to a different environment.

(Note: If a squirrel is ever born with a genetic mutation that makes it run away from cars instead of toward them, it'll out-survive all the other squirrels in my neighborhood, and its descendants will take over the suburbs. :) )
This common ancestor thing that I read a lot of evolutionists say kinda defers from the conversation that one family of organism changed into another and then another etc. This is the story that non evolutionists are curious about. Whenever this did take place (which had to have been fairly recently on the evolutionary timeline as there were supposed mass extinction events in the history of the world) we have no record of and we see no evidence even today with the mass die offs happening in our world. At what point do evolutionists figure "evolution" will kick in again and we can see the endangered whales, for example, start to adapt and change into a new kind or family of animal? If the oceans are getting too hostile, then logically they should begin to adapt to land life, right?
 
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PloverWing

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This common ancestor thing that I read a lot of evolutionists say kinda defers from the conversation that one family of organism changed into another and then another etc. This is the story that non evolutionists are curious about. Whenever this did take place (which had to have been fairly recently on the evolutionary timeline as there were supposed mass extinction events in the history of the world) we have no record of and we see no evidence even today with the mass die offs happening in our world. At what point do evolutionists figure "evolution" will kick in again and we can see the endangered whales, for example, start to adapt and change into a new kind or family of animal? If the oceans are getting too hostile, then logically they should begin to adapt to land life, right?

The version of the theory of evolution that I'm familiar with asserts that living organisms are descended from an ancient common ancestor in a very large family tree, and that the diversity of species is due to mutation and natural selection over many generations. It sounds like you may have a different version of the theory in mind; if so, I'm not familiar enough with that version of the theory to say useful things, so I'll let someone else comment on it.

Yes, it's plausible that whales might have land-dwelling descendants in another few million years, if the right mutations and environmental pressures happened. If you're interested in the reverse process -- how land-dwelling mammals became aquatic mammals -- the Smithsonian has a nice video here: http://ocean.si.edu/ocean-videos/evolution-whales-animation, and UC Berkeley has a chart here: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03 . Note the time frame that both sites indicate, in the ballpark of 10-15 million years. I doubt that biologists would expect any noticeable changes in the whale-descendant population within a mere century, outside of species simply becoming extinct.
 
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Open Heart

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It sounds like your question has already been answered: basically that slow gradual change of the environment produces the kinds of slow gradual biological changes we call evolution. Drastic quick changes of the environment such as what we are seeing right now are what lead to mass extinctions.
 
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