Isaac Newton was closest

Strong in Him · Jun 15, 2015

keras said:
Please, we do not think you are ignorant or don't know your Bible. But you did say you didn't know what a preterist, etc was.

No, I don't, and yes, it's true that I could have looked it up since. At the time I made the comment, though, I had no idea I was making a preterist argument.
I'm sorry if I sounded harsh in my comments or if you thought I was being deliberately antagonistic.

rockytopva · May 5, 2016

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christs coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

So... I feel we have a couple of decades left in planet earth. However... I must admit that the bible does not specifically state...

1. A rapture
2. The churches as ages
3. Total justification for the works of either Jacobus Arminius or John Calvin

As the Lord says...

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1

I therefore say that the times and the seasons that I have laid out are my opinion based upon decades of bible learning and study. The bible does not specifically state these things. It would be wise for me to take the Lord's council and watch and work, lest that day overtake me as a thief. I like the way Isaac Newton summarized his theory on the end time...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

keras · May 5, 2016

About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Bible prophesies and will insist on their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamour and opposition. Quote: Sir Isaac Newton.

Your premise about the Seven Churches, I believe is correct.

The Bible prophets do give us times and seasons. Newton couldn't know the whole truth, as he lived well before the last days. Daniel 12:9

Are you prepared to believe the literal interpretation of the Sixth Seal? And all the other prophesies about that terrible Day of the Lord's wrath?

Whether you believe them or not, it will happen: Ezekiel 33:33

keras · May 5, 2016

Most Bible scholars say that the Bible should be understood literally, if possible. Differences arise when people allegorize passages or just think it all happened long ago. In a lot of prophecy there has been a partial fulfilment; the full and final event awaits completion, as we are told by Paul in 1 Corinthians 10:11. The common and incorrect seminary and Bible College teaching that says all the wrath of God, so comprehensively prophesied throughout the scriptures, has been abrogated and nullified by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus and this leads pastors today to preach only personal salvation. Any mention of a judgement and punishment of peoples and nations is taboo and likely to lose them their tenure. Jesus Himself will instigate this punishment. Psalms 2:9, Luke 3:16-17

Because Bible prophecy is written ‘a little here, a little there’, Isaiah 28:9-10 and also a spirit of misunderstanding prevails among those who don’t make a serious attempt to understand the prophetic Word, Isaiah 6:9b-10, then the end time events will surprise most people. God’s Word has not been given to us so that no one can truly understand - the prophets Daniel 12:10 and Amos 3:7, say that we can know God’s plan for our future.

Here are some examples of prophecies that can and will be fulfilled in the near future:

Ezekiel 6:7-10 As the dead fall around you, you will know that the Lord has carried out His judgement against His enemies. Jeremiah 9:22 But My people, living amongst the nations who survive My punishment will remember Me from their place of exile. Isaiah 11:11 Then I will remove their wayward hearts and wanton eyes that look to idols, then they will loath themselves for all the evil they have done and the abominations they have committed. Ezekiel 37:14 They will know that, I the Lord, was not issuing vain threats about a punishment to come. Deut. 32:34-35

Daniel 12:1 At the time of the end of the age, Michael will appear, that great Captain who guards your kinsmen. There will be a time of anguish such has never been known until that moment. Joel 2:1-2. But at that time, your people will be delivered, everyone whose name is entered into the Book of Life. Malachi 3:16

Hosea 14:4-9 I shall heal My peoples apostasy, I shall love them freely for My anger is turned away from them. They will flourish once again in My shadow and will grow vigorously in the holy Land. Ephraim, [the leader of the ten Northern tribes] you will no longer look to any idols and I declare that I will shelter and prosper you.

Who is wise? He will realize these things. Who is discerning? He will understand them. Jeremiah 9:12 The ways of the Lord are right and the righteous follow them, but the rebellious will stumble. James 1:21 Ref: REB, NIV.

The repeatedly prophesied Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath will happen, He has done it before with a flood, in Noah’s time. This time, it will be a terrifying and shocking event, a worldwide “time of anguish”, a terrible fire graphically described over 100 times throughout the Bible. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, etc. It will happen before the Return of Jesus in His glory, proved by how the Lord’s people will “dwell in His shadow and under the Lord’s shelter”. This is the completion of the prophecies of how the Lord’s people will live in peace and security in the Holy Land and the fulfilment of His promises to the Patriarchs. Ezekiel 34:11-16...I will rescue My people scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness and bring them to their own country.

rockytopva · May 5, 2016

The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. -Proverbs 26:7

Isaac Newton wrote extensively on biblical studies. When he would come to a conclusion he did so with a spirit of humility with his conclusions professionally stated. His answers also blended with the rest of the bible and made sense. This is different from some of the Protestant reformers who had no humility at all... Who thought that just because they spent their entire life on a work made them correct... And who would hate and martyr those who would dare to refute them.

keras · May 5, 2016

I should take the advice of Proverbs 26:4-5

However, we are here to rationally discuss the vitally important issue of our future.
Thinking that we cannot know God's Plans, violates scripture. Amos 3:7, Jeremiah 4:28, Revelation 1:1

Salem · May 6, 2016

rockytopva said:
If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

On what basis? Did Isaac Newton or any man add to inspired scripture, after Revelation, despite the strongest of warnings of Revelation 22:18? Isaac Newton in any way, shape or form had information the Lord Jesus didn't, when He walked the earth, Mark 13:32? If I had to pick an end date, I wouldn't.

keras · May 8, 2016

Salem said:
On what basis? Did Isaac Newton or any man add to inspired scripture, after Revelation, despite the strongest of warnings of Revelation 22:18? Isaac Newton in any way, shape or form had information the Lord Jesus didn't, when He walked the earth

Nobody needs to add to scripture.
People are mostly unable or unwilling to even read all the information God has given us in our Bibles.
And if they do make the attempt, because of pre-conceived beliefs, their understanding is often confused and wrong.

In this day and age, we have the benefit of modern scholarship and far more ancient manuscripts to enable us to see past the false doctrines and errors of previous generations. We read our carefully translated Bibles in our own colloquial languages.
We must put aside any teachings that do not have a firm basis in scripture and make a serious effort to find out what God's Plans really are for our future. If we don't do this, it's all too hard, I can't be bothered, let it all pan out, then remember this: the Day will come, when you will stand before the Lord. One question He may ask you is; Why didn't you take note of all the prophesies I gave you in the Bible?

Salem said:
If I had to pick an end date, I wouldn't.

Jesus told us to watch and He gave us clues of times and seasons. The 'budding of the fig tree', that is; Judah becoming a nation again, is the best one. The generation that sees that, will see it all. Mark 13:28-30

Salem · May 9, 2016

keras said:
Nobody needs to add to scripture.
People are mostly unable or unwilling to even read all the information God has given us in our Bibles.
And if they do make the attempt, because of pre-conceived beliefs, their understanding is often confused and wrong.

In this day and age, we have the benefit of modern scholarship and far more ancient manuscripts to enable us to see past the false doctrines and errors of previous generations. We read our carefully translated Bibles in our own colloquial languages.
We must put aside any teachings that do not have a firm basis in scripture and make a serious effort to find out what God's Plans really are for our future. If we don't do this, it's all too hard, I can't be bothered, let it all pan out, then remember this: the Day will come, when you will stand before the Lord. One question He may ask you is; Why didn't you take note of all the prophesies I gave you in the Bible?

Jesus told us to watch and He gave us clues of times and seasons. The 'budding of the fig tree', that is; Judah becoming a nation again, is the best one. The generation that sees that, will see it all. Mark 13:28-30

This has long been my very thought. There's more than a lifetime to learn in the Bible, but it's not easy to put together, takes years. The Lord clearly deemed that we mine deeper truths, like the Lord Jesus spoke in parables during His ministry: I don't think God wants the depths to come easy, crafted them like a puzzle to put together. It's there, but you have to seek such as tie the Old and New Testaments together, seek the harmony spread all around, an effort of studiousness, over years.

Ironic the tools we have, but we live in an instant gratification society by those same tools, where it's unheard of to spend years diligently studying scripture and reputable scholarship, the old fashioned way. Hence, people will sign up for anything that sounds good on some webpage or YouTube, which is a wilderness of error. At the same time, the truth is out there, also, wonderful tools like comparative Bibles, Lexicons and commentaries, fundamentalist ministries, all at the fingertips of people, but people who don't have the time to drop what else they're doing, verify everything by scripture scholarship, listen and learn. Very ironic. On balance, I believe the internet a curse to theology, like technology that yields some things beneficial to society, but in addition to eventually enslaving or blowing up the world.

The times really are quite exciting, though, as Daniel prophesied where we're living:

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Luke17:37 · May 10, 2016

Codger said:
Gee it really isn't there is it? It doesn't even say that Antichrist is a single person. It also does not say that this solitary Antichrst will come in the end times. In fact John says that they are already in the end times. They know this because of all of the antichrists that have already appeared. You don't suppose he is simply identifying the Gnostic teachers that came out of the Church who were teaching in his day that Jesus was not God come in the flesh? Naaa couldn't be that. If we remove "The Antichrist" from Futurist eschatology the whole thing would collapse. We wouldn't want to do that would we? It just one of numerous places that Futurists have to avoid.

Compare the man of sin in 2 Thessalonians 2 with the beast of the sea in Revelation 13 and the king of the north in Daniel 11 (especially verse 36).

The Antichrist and the False Prophet get thrown alive into the Lake of Fire in Revelation 19. The Antichrist is the Beast of the Sea and the False Prophet is the Beast of the Earth (Revelation 13).

I absolutely believe these are two actual people who Jesus will cast alive into the Lake of Fire 1,000 years before anyone else. The Antichrist is the one who is worshiped, and the False Prophet helps enforce that. Kingdoms are ruled by kings.

If you want to be a partial preterist or whatever, no one can stop you. But remember that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of His first coming literally. And there are many other prophecies that were fulfilled literally as well. What is the point of a prophecy if no one can tell what to expect and no one can tell if it's been fulfilled because it's arguable what it even means?

Luke17:37 · May 10, 2016

Salem said:
This has long been my very thought. There's more than a lifetime to learn in the Bible, but it's not easy to put together, takes years. The Lord clearly deemed that we mine deeper truths, like the Lord Jesus spoke in parables during His ministry: I don't think God wants the depths to come easy, crafted them like a puzzle to put together. It's there, but you have to seek such as tie the Old and New Testaments together, seek the harmony spread all around, an effort of studiousness, over years.

Ironic the tools we have, but we live in an instant gratification society by those same tools, where it's unheard of to spend years diligently studying scripture and reputable scholarship, the old fashioned way. Hence, people will sign up for anything that sounds good on some webpage or YouTube, which is a wilderness of error. At the same time, the truth is out there, also, wonderful tools like comparative Bibles, Lexicons and commentaries, fundamentalist ministries, all at the fingertips of people, but people who don't have the time to drop what else they're doing, verify everything by scripture scholarship, listen and learn. Very ironic. On balance, I believe the internet a curse to theology, like technology that yields some things beneficial to society, but in addition to eventually enslaving or blowing up the world.

The times really are quite exciting, though, as Daniel prophesied where we're living:

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Yeah, there's no better plan than to just study the whole Bible prayerfully and methodically. Otherwise you won't know what's there. That's what I did.

The end times prophecies are like the parables. I think God makes it complicated enough that many people won't see it if they aren't seeking. Otherwise, they wouldn't be liable to the grand delusion the Lord will provide (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11).

rockytopva · May 10, 2016

I have had biblical studies applied to me all my life. In my youngest of days my parents bought the SDA's Uncle Arthurs bible study and I read the entire volumes. After reading endless volumes at the Virginia Tech library, and my bible through seven times I have come up with some conclusions...

1. That the churches came about in ages. And each church movement is unique and encapsulated within its borders... They normally do not fellowship with those outside their denominational walls...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate. Issues, yes, but we all have our issues. This is a Christian church all the same.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

2. That Isaac Newton was closest in the 'when it will all end' predictions....

a. Christmas day 2060 is a good date for Christ to come again
b. Christmas day 2053 is a good date for the rapture to happen...

However... I must leave the door open for God to do what he wants to do...

a. Christ could come back for his church today
b. Christ could come back for his church 100 years from now.

And have the humility to say that these are my best predictions, and that in the end God will do what he wants to do.

victorinus · May 15, 2016

rockytopva said:
If I had to pick an end time date I would go with the scientist, Isaac Newton...

hi
-new here and very interested in the apocalypse
-have read isaac newton which was difficult but interesting
-do you have any suggestions on how to get started here?

rockytopva · May 15, 2016

victorinus said:
hi
-new here and very interested in the apocalypse
-have read isaac newton which was difficult but interesting
-do you have any suggestions on how to get started here?

Greetings! And welcome to CF! If you would like Catholic answers they have a forum in the congregation forums section of this web site. It is a pretty good safehouse if you want Catholic answers only. Here under General Theology you will get a whole lot of answers from those of a variety of faith. Christianforums does not tolerate putting other faiths down or declaring them un-Christian, yet the differences remain.

I, as stated, believe that the congregations form seven generalized congregations, in which the Catholic church is a Christian congregation. It seems that the times and the seasons are changing in which I wonder if we will all come together as one before the end of days, in which I would put Isaac Newtons predictions as the closest.

But, as Christ said, and Isaac Newton agreed, that the times and the seasons are not for us to know... However... Isaac Newton's 2060 prediction is getting pretty close!

victorinus · May 15, 2016

rockytopva said:
Greetings! And welcome to CF! If you would like Catholic answers they have a forum in the congregation forums section of this web site. It is a pretty good safehouse if you want Catholic answers only. Here under General Theology you will get a whole lot of answers from those of a variety of faith. Christianforums does not tolerate putting other faiths down or declaring them un-Christian, yet the differences remain.

I, as stated, believe that the congregations form seven generalized congregations, in which the Catholic church is a Christian congregation. It seems that the times and the seasons are changing in which I wonder if we will all come together as one before the end of days, in which I would put Isaac Newtons predictions as the closest.

But, as Christ said, and Isaac Newton agreed, that the times and the seasons are not for us to know... However... Isaac Newton's 2060 prediction is getting pretty close!

hi
-thanks for the reply
-very few catholics are interested in the apocalypse and I would rather discuss this with whoever is interested
-did you read isaac newton?
-what did you think of it?
-to me it sounded like the church asked him to do it and it looked like he was struggling with it
-it is a very difficult read which was never finalized by him

rockytopva · May 15, 2016

victorinus said:
hi
-thanks for the reply
-very few catholics are interested in the apocalypse and I would rather discuss this with whoever is interested
-did you read isaac newton?
-what did you think of it?
-to me it sounded like the church asked him to do it and it looked like he was struggling with it
-it is a very difficult read which was never finalized by him

It looks like Catholics and Protestants alike were wrongly preciting the return of Christ, which led Isaac Newton to speak up...

1600 - Martin Luther - Predicted the end of the world would occur no later than 1600.

1656 - Christopher Columbus - In his Book of Prophecies (1501), Columbus predicted that the world would end in 1656.

1657 - Fifth Monarchists - This group of radical Christians predicted the final apocalyptic battle and the destruction of the Antichrist were to take place between 1655 and 1657.

1658 - Christopher Columbus - Columbus claimed that the world was created in 5343 BCE, and would last 7000 years. Assuming no year zero, that means the end would come in 1658.

1688 - John Napier - This mathematician calculated the end of the world would be this year based on calculations from the Book of Revelation.

1700 - John Napier After his 1688 prediction failed to come true, Napier revised his end of the world prediction to this year.

1719 Apr 5 - Jacob Bernoulli - This mathematician predicted a comet would destroy the earth on this day.

Which led Isaac Newton to write...

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

rockytopva · May 15, 2016

victorinus said:
hi
-thanks for the reply
-very few catholics are interested in the apocalypse and I would rather discuss this with whoever is interested
-did you read isaac newton?
-what did you think of it?
-to me it sounded like the church asked him to do it and it looked like he was struggling with it
-it is a very difficult read which was never finalized by him

These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 2:1

I see Christ walking among the seven golden candlesticks, which I believe are the Messianic, Martyr, Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Revived, and the Charismatic.

My dad was raised Catholic and attended seminary. He then would profess religion in a Baptist church, then enjoy revival among Pentecostals, and now attends the Lutheran church. My dad likes to introduce ideas from other congregations into the Lutheran church, in which he gets a lot of rebuttals. I have tried to explain to him that it was not a good idea to introduce Philadelphian or Laodicean ideas into a Sardisian congregation, but he continues to do it. When the preacher there finally has enough of the guy my only reply would be that I tried to warn him of such ideas.

I see these as Charismatic times in which the Word of Faith people enjoy the greatest gains...

victorinus · May 16, 2016

have you read this
-OBSERVATIONS ON DANIEL AND THE APOCALYPSE OF ST. JOHN

rockytopva · May 16, 2016

Will read with much interest. Thank you!

victorinus · May 16, 2016

rockytopva said:
Will read with much interest. Thank you!

hi rockytop
-love that song
-can't get anyone to comment on this rule
-Do not refer to specific religious leaders (alive or deceased) as the antichrist, the beast, or the false prophet
-what can you tell me?
-would that include mohammed?

Isaac Newton was closest

Great is thy faithfulness

Love to pray! :)

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Love to pray! :)

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Love to pray! :)

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