NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.

TLK Valentine · Dec 10, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
I can show you evidence that people are doing all they can to destroy the evidence.

But you have no actual evidence...

TLK Valentine · Dec 14, 2015

bump.

Justatruthseeker · Dec 14, 2015

TLK Valentine said:
I don't see any support, either. Do you see anything but a lot of assertions?

In fact, I challenge you to prove that Joseph the Carpenter was, in fact, an actual historical person, and not a literary creation.

Suetonius was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. His writings about Christians describe their treatment under the Emperor Claudius (41-54AD):

“Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus (Christ), he (Claudius) expelled them from the city (Rome).” (Life of Claudius, 25:4)

Cornelius Tacitus was known for his analysis and examination of historical documents and is among the most trusted of ancient historians. He was a senator under Emperor Vespasian and was also proconsul of Asia. In his “Annals’ of 116AD, he describes Emperor Nero’s response to the great fire in Rome and Nero’s claim that the Christians were to blame:

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.”

In this account, Tacitus confirms for us that Jesus lived in Judea, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and had followers who were persecuted for their faith in Christ.

So Roman historians understood Jesus was real and his followers were expelled and persecuted. Now you are certainly free to believe he never had a father or mother if you wish, but I'd suggest such thinking might be slightly flawed. Now we understand Joseph was only the stepfather of Jesus - not his real Father. But you certainly are entitled to your beliefs. I certainly support freedom of religion 100%, no matter what that belief is.

TLK Valentine · Dec 15, 2015

Justatruthseeker said:
Suetonius was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House under the Emperor Hadrian. His writings about Christians describe their treatment under the Emperor Claudius (41-54AD):

“Because the Jews at Rome caused constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus (Christ), he (Claudius) expelled them from the city (Rome).” (Life of Claudius, 25:4)

Cornelius Tacitus was known for his analysis and examination of historical documents and is among the most trusted of ancient historians. He was a senator under Emperor Vespasian and was also proconsul of Asia. In his “Annals’ of 116AD, he describes Emperor Nero’s response to the great fire in Rome and Nero’s claim that the Christians were to blame:

“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.”

In this account, Tacitus confirms for us that Jesus lived in Judea, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and had followers who were persecuted for their faith in Christ.

So Roman historians understood Jesus was real and his followers were expelled and persecuted. Now you are certainly free to believe he never had a father or mother if you wish, but I'd suggest such thinking might be slightly flawed. Now we understand Joseph was only the stepfather of Jesus - not his real Father. But you certainly are entitled to your beliefs. I certainly support freedom of religion 100%, no matter what that belief is.

None of which was being questioned -- perhaps I should repeat it to clear up the confusion?

Jesus of Nazareth most certainly had a father -- but there is no historical evidence that the man known as Joseph actually existed. I instead postulate that Joseph was a literary composite first created by Matthew to solve the issue of Jesus'... questionable paternity.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 15, 2015

TLK Valentine said:
None of which was being questioned -- perhaps I should repeat it to clear up the confusion?

Jesus of Nazareth most certainly had a father -- but there is no historical evidence that the man known as Joseph actually existed. I instead postulate that Joseph was a literary composite first created by Matthew to solve the issue of Jesus'... questionable paternity.

So Jesus had a father but His father was a literary composite. Do you ever listen to yourself?

TLK Valentine · Dec 15, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
So Jesus had a father but His father was a literary composite. Do you ever listen to yourself?

Yes. Do you?

Jesus had a father. It was not Joseph.
Matthew created Joseph from an Old Testament character with the same name because he had no idea who Jesus' real father was.

Really, it's not that complicated.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 16, 2015

TLK Valentine said:
Yes. Do you?

No I do not listen to myself. I listen to the Bible. I would not want to go back to living my life without using the standards the Bible sets. Everything apart from God is doomed to failure. Only God remains consistent and true.

TLK Valentine · Dec 16, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
No I do not listen to myself. I listen to the Bible. I would not want to go back to living my life without using the standards the Bible sets. Everything apart from God is doomed to failure. Only God remains consistent and true.

So when I cited all four Gospels to show what a patchwork character Joseph really was, were you paying attention, or not?

joshua 1 9 · Dec 17, 2015

TLK Valentine said:
So when I cited all four Gospels to show what a patchwork character Joseph really was, were you paying attention, or not?

We have looked at what the Bible has to say about Joseph if that is what you mean. We were talking about books like: "Apocrypha: Joseph the Carpenter", the history of Joseph the carpenter and trying to make a determination as to it's validity as a extra scriptural source of information. We want to determine how valid this information is and how much we should regard it. My only comment was what the position of the Catholic Church is in regard to this. If you want to disagree with the Catholic church that is your choice.

TLK Valentine · Dec 17, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
We have looked at what the Bible has to say about Joseph if that is what you mean. We were talking about books like: "Apocrypha: Joseph the Carpenter", the history of Joseph the carpenter and trying to make a determination as to it's validity as a extra scriptural source of information.

And since such books are little more than assertions piled on more assertions, how much actual information do they have?

We want to determine how valid this information is and how much we should regard it. My only comment was what the position of the Catholic Church is in regard to this. If you want to disagree with the Catholic church that is your choice.

But of course... the Catholic Church has a lot more incentive to promote their own version of the story than the Jewish one, do they not?

joshua 1 9 · Dec 17, 2015

TLK Valentine said:
But of course... the Catholic Church has a lot more incentive to promote their own version of the story than the Jewish one, do they not?

What incentive do they have? Both stories or accounts of Joseph the Carpenter are apocrypha. The young Joseph story presents a lot of problems. The story where Joseph was older and a widower tends to resolve a lot of the issues.

bhsmte · Dec 17, 2015

joshua 1 9 said:
We have looked at what the Bible has to say about Joseph if that is what you mean. We were talking about books like: "Apocrypha: Joseph the Carpenter", the history of Joseph the carpenter and trying to make a determination as to it's validity as a extra scriptural source of information. We want to determine how valid this information is and how much we should regard it. My only comment was what the position of the Catholic Church is in regard to this. If you want to disagree with the Catholic church that is your choice.

Who is "we"?

DennisTate · May 1, 2016

TLK Valentine said:
So -- a man who loses oxygen to the brain for an extended period of time suddenly decides that Creationist mythology is legitimate?

Color me shocked.

What he wrote though sounded amazingly similar to chapter 13 of "Stephen Hawking's Universe."

The title of that one is.... The Anthropic Principle and he postulated the Cyclic Model of the Universe there.

DennisTate · May 1, 2016

AV1611VET said:
The Gap Theory, as I undersand it, neatly explains such things as cratering on the moon, the Grand Canyon, and supernovas; by suggesting that there was a cosmic battle that took place in the heavens prior to Genesis 1:2, that basically wrecked all of God's creation.

I think the six days of Genesis 1 then, are a restoration of God's creation back to what it is now.

But I could be wrong on this.

That is exactly what I have came to believe as well!

Justatruthseeker · May 1, 2016

DennisTate said:
That is exactly what I have came to believe as well!

That's why I keep pointing out to people that the Hebrew word hayah means to fall out or to become. But because people consistently translate the second word of the second verse of the Bible as "was", they fail to see that the earth "became" desolate and waste, and darkness "became" upon...... hence the dinosaurs died out. Which also solves the discrepancy between chapter one and two. The dinosaurs being the animals created before man and mammals being the animals created with or after man. It also solves the problem of the age of the earth, when one realizes why the first verse has the verb in the past tense - as finished or complete.

DennisTate · May 1, 2016

Justatruthseeker said:
That's why I keep pointing out to people that the Hebrew word hayah means to fall out or to become. But because people consistently translate the second word of the second verse of the Bible as "was", they fail to see that the earth "became" desolate and waste, and darkness "became" upon...... hence the dinosaurs died out. Which also solves the discrepancy between chapter one and two. The dinosaurs being the animals created before man and mammals being the animals created with or after man. It also solves the problem of the age of the earth, when one realizes why the first verse has the verb in the past tense - as finished or complete.

Exactly!

We Christians should have no problem whatsoever with the earth being about 4.5 billion years old.

This is kind of an important topic at this time considering that Dr. Ben Carson could be chosen as V. P. candidate!

Uncle Mikey · May 1, 2016

Justatruthseeker · May 2, 2016

DennisTate said:
Exactly!

We Christians should have no problem whatsoever with the earth being about 4.5 billion years old.

This is kind of an important topic at this time considering that Dr. Ben Carson could be chosen as V. P. candidate!

None at all, since the Bible declares it is "of old."

It's really simple. Since the same Author penned both the Word and the Works - they must agree. If they don't, then the interpretation of one or the other is flawed.

Man is a recent creation - not the earth or the life that existed on it before man. I believe there have been six creations and 5 total destruction's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

Man being part of the sixth creation preceded by the 5th destruction. Soon there will be a sixth destruction followed by a seventh and final creation.

People are simply confused about the flood of Noah's day. It can not be directly observed because the animals that existed before it - were brought through it. No new life had to be created as it was following the other 5 destruction's. This is why there is no clear demarcation line like there is for the other 5 when life went extinct and all new forms of life suddenly arose - all over the globe.

Justatruthseeker · May 2, 2016

Uncle Mikey said:

Lets finish out those scriptures:

http://biblehub.com/jeremiah/4-24.htm

"I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro. 25I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled. 26I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

I agree, people attempting to imply Jeremiah 4:23 applies to the earth before creation. What hills, of it was supposedly a ball of water. What birds, since they were supposedly not created till the third day. What cities were tore down, since man was not created till the 6th day and had yet built no cities. Why must people take things out of context to support beliefs??????

But then that's why it is called the lamentation of Judah - because it foretold Judah's destruction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah#Destruction_and_dispersion

Tohu wa bohu is only used in three places in the Bible together. Gen 1:2; Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23.

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/34-11.htm

In both Isaiah and Jeremiah it points to a once flourishing condition made desolate and waste. But suddenly people want to translate the other occurrence in Genesis completely different, without reference to the only two other places those words are used together. Simply to fit their pre-conceived beliefs.

Hoghead1 · May 2, 2016

Justatruthseeker said:
Lets finish out those scriptures:

http://biblehub.com/jeremiah/4-24.htm

"I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro. 25I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled. 26I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

I agree, people attempting to imply Jeremiah 4:23 applies to the earth before creation. What hills, of it was supposedly a ball of water. What birds, since they were supposedly not created till the third day. What cities were tore down, since man was not created till the 6th day and had yet built no cities. Why must people take things out of context to support beliefs??????

But then that's why it is called the lamentation of Judah - because it foretold Judah's destruction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah#Destruction_and_dispersion

Tohu wa bohu is only used in three places in the Bible together. Gen 1:2; Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23.

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/34-11.htm

In both Isaiah and Jeremiah it points to a once flourishing condition made desolate and waste. But suddenly people want to translate the other occurrence in Genesis completely different, without reference to the only two other places those words are used together. Simply to fit their pre-conceived beliefs.

Just who is "translating" the other occurrences differently? The translators of the Bible? Are you now suggesting you know more than they do?

NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.

Do you like the theory, old earth with a gap between Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:2?

Yes, this is one of the most logical explanations I have heard.

No, the earth is only 6000 to 10000 years old. Dr. Ian Juby said so!

Yes, so maybe Mr. Al Gore was right about the ice being 650,000 years old.

No, the fall of the Devil/Lucifer theory is a complete myth!

I've already read the books you want burned.

I've already read the books you want burned.

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I've already read the books you want burned.

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I've already read the books you want burned.

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I've already read the books you want burned.

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I've already read the books you want burned.

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Newbie

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Declare all that thou seest.

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