7 year peace treaty, what 7 year peace treaty?

Douggg · Feb 25, 2016

precepts said:
The forsaking of the Levitical covenant is the AOD. The High Priest during Christ time wasn't of the direct line of firstborn sons of Aaron, if he even was a son of Aaron.

Christ couldn't have condemn what was happening all together because that was all the righteous people had in the form of obeying the laws of Moses. But the "forsakers of the covenant" did hijack the government and temple sacrifices.

okay, I have missed out on most of this discussion. Are you talking about in Daniel 11, and the Maccabees when they revolted against some puppet high priests installed by Antiochus?

The AOD is something, an object, a thing that is setup in the temple.

Jews of today do believe that the priests have to be of the tribe of Levi. So I would not say that they have abandoned the Levite (Aaron) priest hood.

One of the things I do agree with you on is that Jesus was critical of the Pharisees - who figuratively sat in the seat of Moses, in that they acted as judges over disputes. Jesus was critical that they had embellished on the original laws, coming up with some of their own requirements. Jesus also made a distinction between God's law and their law, when he said (paraphrased) the hated me without cause to fulfill their law.

Unfortunately, the yeast of the Pharisees is deeply embedded in the Jewish (Judaism) mindset, resulting in silly rules like a Jew cannot open a refrigerator on the Sabbath - because then the light would come on, and electricity, in their halacha law, (Jewish law) the rabbi's have determined is equivalent to starting fire. There was prohibition following the Mt. Sinai coven anent, against such starting a fire as well as gathering firewood on the Sabbath back in the day.

Also why are you guys arguing over the rebuilding of the city in Daniel 9, the command going forth, 7 weeks? It has already taken place because everyone here agrees that Jesus the messiah. It's not going to make any difference, eschatology wise.

Douggg · Feb 25, 2016

precepts said:
Verses please.

It is in Daniel 12, that the AOD will be a thing that will be setup to be worshiped.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Separately, I am not understanding where you are getting the notion that the Jews abandoned the Aaronic priesthood, the Levites ?

Goodbook · Feb 25, 2016

Hmm i wonder if this 7 year peace treaty idea is what zionists believe as well.

I mean all I see is people trying to massage scripture into current events like JWs like to do.

Do people not read the Bible in order?

Douggg · Feb 26, 2016

Goodbook said:
Hmm i wonder if this 7 year peace treaty idea is what zionists believe as well.

I mean all I see is people trying to massage scripture into current events like JWs like to do.

Do people not read the Bible in order?

Zionists? Are you speaking of Jews? Zionists are just people who believe the land of Israel is the homeland for the Jews.

The Jews are not looking for any 7 year peace treaty. Regarding Christians, them who hold the 7 year peace treaty idea - yes they are looking at any current events to would support their expectations. And even though I disagree with their notion of a 7 year peace treaty, I don't think they massage the scriptures the same way JW's do.

BABerean2 · Feb 26, 2016

Jeremiah is given a prophecy of a New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Then the angel Gabriel appears to Daniel and gives the 70 weeks prophecy.
Daniel 9:24 gives a summary of the things to be accomplished during the 70 weeks at verse 9:24.

Compare Daniel 9:24 to Jeremiah 31:34 and you will find the same sin and the same iniquity.
I wonder if the two verses are related?

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Are we to believe that God "forgot" to tell the angel about the coming New Covenant of the Messiah already revealed to Jeremiah, as assumed by most modern evangelical intepreters?

Daniel 9:27 from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which was the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Darby came to our shores.

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
................................................................

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. (It is "now" in effect.)

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (The New Covenant has made the Sinai Covenant obsolete.)

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(Some are teaching that this everlasting covenant will cease 7 years before the Second Coming.)

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The New Blood Covenant of the Messiah is the one thing that connects the Old Testament Promise to the New Testament Promise.

Search all day and you will not find an antichrist in Daniel chapter 9.
Neither will you find a "gap" of time, which is almost 2,000 years at this point.
However, they must be added to get John Nelson Darby's doctrine of a 7 year treaty by an antichrist, to work.

And they call this interpreting the Bible "literally".

And in the process they have also ignored the period of time when the Gospel was preached to Daniel's people, before it was taken to the Gentiles.
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Goodbook · Feb 26, 2016

Hmm it seems that ppl think the abraham covenant and the sinai covenant are different? Arent they the same continuation started with abraham, isaac and jacob, down to moses on mt sinai?

Lets look at the covenant God made with abraham in genesis chapter 15. Some animals were sacrificed.
God told abraham that his seed would inherit it after 400 years. As we read in the bible 400 years later it was Joshua who led the israelites into the promised land to possess it. It was theres. But it would only stay theirs under certain conditions. Chapter 17 says that the israelite had to be circumcised. Otherwise they would be breaking the covenant. Ok fast fwd nearly 400 years later to the time of the the giving of the law at mt siniai.

Exodus chapter 24. Moses had written down all that God had told him in a book. Another sacrifice was made and the blood sprinkled on his people. The people that moses led out were the israelites...all from the seed of abraham. Now that God was leading the, into the promised land of milk and honey, God wantes them to obey all his commandments so that they would be a holy nation and people.

Well lets see later if these people kept this covenant? Keep reading the bible...

Psalm3704 · Feb 26, 2016

BABerean2 said:
You should at least read your own posts...

He judges both the living and the dead at His Coming.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

He doesn't come at the 7th trumpet ole wise........guy!

BABerean2 said:
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This was already fulfilled at THE 9th HOUR HE died on the cross, ole wise.......guy!

Matthew 27:46-53 (NKJV)
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying,“Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

47 Some of those who stood there, when they heard that, said, “This Man is calling for Elijah!” 48 Immediately one of them ran and took a sponge, filled it with sour wine and put it on a reed, and offered it to Him to drink.

49 The rest said, “Let Him alone; let us see if Elijah will come to save Him.”

50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

BABerean2 said:

When you claim more animal sacrifices are need in the future, you are spinning one of the legends mentioned in your post above.

Click to expand...

Are you using a soft cover new testament only bible?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=eze+43:18-27&version=NKJV;GNT
Ezekiel 43:18-27 Good News Translation (GNT)
The Consecration of the Altar
18 The Sovereign Lord said to me, “Mortal man, listen to what I tell you. When the altar is built, you are to dedicate it by burning sacrifices on it and by sprinkling on it the blood of the animals that were sacrificed. 19 Those priests belonging to the tribe of Levi who are descended from Zadok are the only ones who are to come into my presence to serve me. I, the Sovereign Lord, command this. You will give them a young bull to offer as a sacrifice for sin. 20 You are to take some of its blood and put it on the projections on the top corners of the altar, on the corners of the middle section of the altar, and all around its edges. In this way you will purify the altar and consecrate it. 21 You are to take the bull that is offered as a sacrifice for sin and burn it at the specified place outside the Temple area. 22 The next day you are to take a male goat without any defects and offer it as a sacrifice for sin. Purify the altar with its blood the same way you did with the bull. 23 When you have finished doing that, take a young bull and a young ram, both of them without any defects,24 and bring them to me. The priests will sprinkle salt on them and burn them as an offering to me. 25 Each day for seven days you are to offer a goat, a bull, and a ram as sacrifices for sin. All of them must be without any defects.26 For seven days the priests are to consecrate the altar and make it ready for use. 27 When the week is over, the priests are to begin offering on the altar the burnt offerings and the fellowship offerings of the people. Then I will be pleased with all of you. I, the Sovereign Lord, have spoken.”

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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel 45:18-46:24&version=GNT;NKJV
Ezekiel 45:18 - 46:24 Good News Translation (GNT)
The Festivals
18 The Sovereign Lord said, “On the first day of the first month you are to sacrifice a bull without any defects and purify the Temple. 19 The priest will take some of the blood of this sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the Temple, on the four corners of the altar, and on the posts of the gateways to the inner courtyard. 20 On the seventh day of the month you are to do the same thing on behalf of anyone who sins unintentionally or through ignorance. In this way you will keep the Temple holy.

21 “On the fourteenth day of the first month you will begin the celebration of the Passover Festival. For seven days everyone will eat bread made without yeast. 22 On the first day of the festival the ruling prince must offer a bull as a sacrifice for his sins and for those of all the people. 23 On each of the seven days of the festival he is to sacrifice to the Lord seven bulls and seven rams without any defects and burn them whole. He is also to sacrifice a male goat each day as a sin offering. 24 For each bull and each ram that is sacrificed, there is to be an offering of half a bushel of grain and three quarts of olive oil.

25 “For the Festival of Shelters, which begins on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, the prince will offer on each of the seven days the same sacrifice for sin, the same offerings to be burned whole, and the same offerings of grain and olive oil.”

The Prince and the Festivals
46 The Sovereign Lord says, “The east gateway to the inner courtyard must be kept closed during the six working days, but it is to be opened on the Sabbath and at the New Moon Festival. 2 The ruling prince will go from the outer courtyard into the entrance room of the gateway and stand beside the posts of the gate while the priests burn his sacrifices whole and offer his fellowship offerings. There at the gate he must worship and then go back out. The gate must not be shut until evening. 3 Each Sabbath and each New Moon Festival all the people are also to bow down and worship the Lord in front of the gate. 4 On the Sabbath the prince is to bring to the Lord, as sacrifices to be burned whole, six lambs and one ram, all without any defects. 5 With each ram he is to bring an offering of half a bushel of grain, and with each lamb he is to bring whatever he wants to give. For each half-bushel of grain offering he is to bring three quarts of olive oil. 6 At the New Moon Festival he will offer a young bull, six lambs, and a ram, all without any defects. 7 With each bull and each ram the offering is to be half a bushel of grain, and with each lamb the offering is to be whatever the prince wants to give. Three quarts of olive oil are to be offered with each half-bushel of grain. 8 The prince must leave the entrance room of the gateway and go out by the same way he went in.

9 “When the people come to worship the Lord at any festival, those who enter by the north gate are to leave by the south gate after they have worshiped, and those who enter by the south gate are to leave by the north gate. No one may go out by the same way he entered, but must leave by the opposite gate. 10 The prince is to come in when the people come, and leave when they leave. 11 On the feast days and at the festivals the grain offering will be half a bushel with each bull or ram, and whatever the worshiper wants to give with each lamb. Three quarts of olive oil are to be offered with each half-bushel of grain.

12 “When the ruling prince wants to make a voluntary offering to the Lord, either an offering to be burned whole or a fellowship offering, the east gate to the inner courtyard will be opened for him. He is to make the offering in the same way he does on the Sabbath, and the gate is to be closed after he goes back out.”

The Daily Offering
13 The Lord says, “Every morning a one-year-old lamb without any defects is to be burned whole as an offering to the Lord. This offering must be made every day. 14 Also an offering of five pounds of flour is to be made every morning, along with one quart of olive oil for mixing with the flour. The rules for this offering to the Lord are to be in force forever. 15 The lamb, the flour, and the olive oil are to be offered to the Lord every morning forever.”

The Prince and the Land
16 The Sovereign Lord commands: “If the ruling prince gives any of the land he owns to one of his sons as a present, it will belong to that son as a part of his family property. 17 But if the ruling prince gives any of his land to anyone who is in his service, it will become the prince's property again when the Year of Restoration comes. It belongs to him, and only he and his sons can own it permanently. 18 The ruling prince must not take any of the people's property away from them. Any land he gives to his sons must be from the land that is assigned to him, so that he will not oppress any of my people by taking their land.”

The Temple Kitchens
19 Then the man took me to the entrance of the rooms facing north near the gate on the south side of the inner courtyard. These are holy rooms for the priests. He pointed out a place on the west side of the rooms 20 and said, “This is the place where the priests are to boil the meat offered as sacrifices for sin or as repayment offerings, and to bake the offerings of flour, so that nothing holy is carried to the outer courtyard, where it might harm the people.”

21-22 Then he led me to the outer courtyard and showed me that in each of its four corners there was a smaller courtyard, 68 feet long and 48 feet wide. 23 Each one had a stone wall around it, with fireplaces built against the wall.24 The man told me, “These are the kitchens where the Temple servants are to boil the sacrifices the people offer.”

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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah 14:16-21&version=GNT;NKJV
Zechariah 14:16-21 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Nations Worship the King
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that which ever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

BABerean2 said:

The descendants of Jacob were told in Jeremiah 31:31-34 that God was going to make a New Covenant that would not be like the Sinai covenant.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Click to expand...

BABerean2 said:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Click to expand...

Do you understand anything Jeremiah wrote in 31:31-34? Read what Jeremiah said.

1) God is making a new covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah. (Still future).

2) God is not making this covenant the same way He did with the Israelites as He did before.

3) God will put His law in their minds and in their hearts. Not like He did before when he wrote the law on two stone tablets that they were not able to keep. It's the same law, only this time it'll be in the heart and mind, and this time they'll be able to keep the law because it'll be with each of them, inside them.

Do you have any clue what Jeremiah is talking about here?

4) They won't have to teach each other to know God anymore. They will all know God.

Do you understand what Jeremiah just told us here?

Jeremiah 31:31-34 New King James Version (NKJV)
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Do you understand what Jeremiah just told us here?

*Do you have any idea what Jesus meant when He said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by Me?"

*Do you know why Jesus is able to make such a bold statement?

*Do you know why Jesus said he will not leave them orphans? John 18:14

*Do you know why Jesus said it's in their best interest He go away? John 16:17

*Do you understand the power Jesus is offering to those He calls His disciples?

*Why isn't other religions (Judaism, Buddhist and I think Hindus too. Minus Islam) able to reach God since we all worship the same God, the god of the bible?

*Why does Jesus call some Christians lukewarm? You are neither hot or cold but hot on the outside and cold on the inside. Your heart is not on fire for God, you wear the name Christian on your sleeve.

Do you understand what Jeremiah just told us here?

No! You don't get this, not Jeremiah 31:31-34 nor what God is planning to do with the Israelites someday.

It's the same law! A covenant is an agreement. In the old covenant, God wrote His commandments on two stone tablets and the Israelites were to obey them. In this new agreement, God will put His law in their minds and in their hearts instead, and this time they'll be able to keep the law because it'll be with each of them, inside them. And it will help them to know God that they no longer have to explain about God is to their people. This time, it's a real relationship.

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BABerean2 said:

Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Click to expand...

Tell us ole wise guy. What was Jesus talking about when He said it is finished?

I'll bet you your youtube account you don't know! My bible verses your youtube videos you're clueless of what was finished! But please tell us.

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Psalm3704 · Feb 26, 2016

Goodbook said:
Hmm it seems that ppl think the abraham covenant and the sinai covenant are different? Arent they the same continuation started with abraham, isaac and jacob, down to moses on mt sinai?

Oh man! Not even close!

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Douggg · Feb 26, 2016

Goodbook said:
Hmm it seems that ppl think the abraham covenant and the sinai covenant are different? Arent they the same continuation started with abraham, isaac and jacob, down to moses on mt sinai?

Lets look at the covenant God made with abraham in genesis chapter 15. Some animals were sacrificed.
God told abraham that his seed would inherit it after 400 years. As we read in the bible 400 years later it was Joshua who led the israelites into the promised land to possess it. It was theres. But it would only stay theirs under certain conditions. Chapter 17 says that the israelite had to be circumcised. Otherwise they would be breaking the covenant. Ok fast fwd nearly 400 years later to the time of the the giving of the law at mt siniai.

Exodus chapter 24. Moses had written down all that God had told him in a book. Another sacrifice was made and the blood sprinkled on his people. The people that moses led out were the israelites...all from the seed of abraham. Now that God was leading the, into the promised land of milk and honey, God wantes them to obey all his commandments so that they would be a holy nation and people.

Well lets see later if these people kept this covenant? Keep reading the bible...

I don't think the covenant with Abraham was centered on the law. The ten commandments and the other supporting laws did not come into the picture until the Mt. Sinai covenant.

The Abraham covenant was based upon promises to Abraham because Abraham found favor with God because Abraham believed God - that is, the blessing was based upon faith in God.

Contrastingly, the Mt. Sinai covenant was dependent upon the adherence to the law - a set of do's and don't s - to receive the blessings if they did well, or the curses if they did not.

The covenant in Jesus is better than all of the them because in Jesus we are made righteous with God and receive eternal life and God is present with us personally, forever. In Jesus only, have our souls been redeemed, but also the redemption of the body, soon to take place.

The Abrahamic covenant and the Mt. Sinai covenant and the Noah covenant some count as well - provides none of those things.

We should thank and praise God everyday for coming into this world to save us (me).

BABerean2 · Feb 26, 2016

Goodbook said:
Hmm it seems that ppl think the abraham covenant and the sinai covenant are different? Arent they the same continuation started with abraham, isaac and jacob, down to moses on mt sinai?

That is a great question that Paul answered in Galatians chapter 3.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(The Promises to Abraham were made only to Christ.)

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(The Sinai Covenant was added 430 years after the Promise to Abraham. It could not change the Promise.)

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(The inheritance does not come through the Sinai Covenant.)

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(The Sinai Covenant was added, because of sin, until Christ could come.)

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Those who belong to Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs to the promise.)
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BABerean2 · Feb 26, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
Do you understand anything Jeremiah wrote in 31:31-34? Read what Jeremiah said.

1) God is making a new covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah. (Still future).

2) God is not making this covenant the same way He did with the Israelites as He did before.

3) God will put His law in their minds and in their hearts. Not like He did before when he wrote the law on two stone tablets that they were not able to keep. It's the same law, only this time it'll be in the heart and mind, and this time they'll be able to keep the law because it'll be with each of them, inside them.

Do you have any clue what Jeremiah is talking about here?

Your Dispensationalist claim that the New Covenant is future falls apart instantly if we simply read the words of the New Testament. (New Covenant)

What did Jesus say?

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(There it is in Red Letters, spoke by the Son of God Himself.)

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
(The verses that follow here are a direct quote from Jeremiah chapter 31. The New Covenant written in Christ's Blood at Calvary is "now" in effect. You are attempting to ignore the fact that the New Covenant was first made with Israelites, like the Apostle Paul (Romans 11:1) and the 3,000 " men of Israel" on the day of Pentecost.)

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. (This verse is also written in the present tense.)

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(The New Blood Covenant is "everlasting" here and it was written in the first century.)

Those in the New Blood Covenant have the Holy Spirit inside of them.
He is the teacher and thus we do not need to be taught by others.
He writes God's Law on our heart.

In the text below James tells us the identity of Israel and Judah in the New Testament.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

Psalm3704 · Feb 26, 2016

BABerean2 said:
Your Dispensationalist claim that the New Covenant is future falls apart instantly if we simply read the words of the New Testament. (New Covenant)

What did Jesus say?

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(There it is in Red Letters, spoke by the Son of God Himself.)

I think your brain is what fell apart. Matthew 26:28 is about a covenant Christ made. Jeremiah 31:31-34 is about a covenant God made. "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt,"

Jesus did not lead them out of Egypt and Jesus did not make a covenant with their fathers at Mt. Sinai through Moses.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 New King James Version (NKJV)
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

BAB2, DUH!!!

.

precepts · Feb 26, 2016

Douggg said:
It is in Daniel 12, that the AOD will be a thing that will be setup to be worshiped.

You full well know it doesn't specifically say a "thing."

Douggg said:
Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Where does it say "thing" or implies a thing, and not a person?

Douggg said:
Separately, I am not understanding where you are getting the notion that the Jews abandoned the Aaronic priesthood, the Levites ?

Of course, you're not getting it even though it's been the topic of discussion from at least the last two pages.

BABerean2 · Feb 26, 2016

Psalm3704 said:
I think your brain is what fell apart. Matthew 26:28 is about a covenant Christ made. Jeremiah 31:31-34 is about a covenant God made. "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt,"

Jesus did not lead them out of Egypt and Jesus did not make a covenant with their fathers at Mt. Sinai through Moses.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 New King James Version (NKJV)
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

BAB2, DUH!!!
.

Christian Doctrine 101: Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Ghost are three aspects of the same thing, normally referred to as "The Trinity".

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (That would be Jesus Christ.)

The writer of Hebrews makes it plain that Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant from the Book of Jeremiah.
The main text of Hebrews 8:8-12 is copied from Jeremiah 31:31-34.
It is written in the future tense, because that is the way is was written in Jeremiah, which was a future prophecy in the Old Testament.

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

.......................
testament
G1242

διαθήκη

diathēkē

dee-ath-ay'-kay

From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.
.........................

Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

And for those who still cannot bring themselves to give up on John Darby's doctrine, the writer of Hebrews spells it out for us in the verse below.
This verse spells out for us who the "he" is in Hebrews 8:6.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

I had heard of John Darby's claim to Two Peoples of God, Two Plans of God, but I will have to admit this is a first for me.
Now one of Darby's adherents claims there are Two New Covenants.

Maybe this would be called "Rightly Dividing" the New Covenant...

And they claim to hold a "literal" interpretation of scripture...
.

Goodbook · Feb 26, 2016

I was thinking, like in Hebrews it says by faith we are saved, eg abraham by faith he left his land to go places unknown and it was counted to him for righteousness. This was before anyone was circumcised.

And we see many uncircumcised people have faith in God eg Rahab, Ruth, back in the OT and leaving their old gods to worship the Lord almighty.

Also in galatians it says the law was given as a schoolmaster to bring people to christ. Who kept the law perfectly? Only one man, Jesus. He was abrahams seed...and the promise given was that Kings shall come of him and be father of many nations.

Jesus is King of Kings and presiding over many nations. The israelites...could not even keep their own kingdom. Look how they failed time and again in the OT and kept breaking the covenant.

What did Jesus do? He fulfilled the law and the prophets. Nobody else could do it. And it says he abolished those ordinances. What happened to the temple? It got destroyed. He raised up a new temple...and wrote the laws on peoples hearts instead. No just for israelites but anyone who believes.

Do people not get this nor read the bible in the order its written?

Goodbook · Feb 26, 2016

There is only one new covenant, one lord, one baptism.

It supercedes the old one, because Jesus is the fulfilment of it. He was the last adam and the sacrificial lamb. Only the lamb is worthy to open the scroll.

Jesus is not going to bring back sacrifices and offerings...God wants us as living sacrifices, not dead ones. He desires mercy, not sacrifice. That is why in book of revelation there is no temple...only the lamb is there. God is going to dwell amongst us. Why do you think the temple got destroyed? At the cruxifiction, the curtain was torn in two. There is no more need for a temple building, we are his living temples. Us believers.

That is why when ppl talk weird doctrines of jesus coming back to reinstate all the old testament statutes and sacrifices, and rebuilding temples, and 7 year peace treaties, us christians who are believers and KNOW Jesus, are scratching our heads. Did you miss the gospel part of the Bible? Do you even know Jesus and what he did on the cross for us? Does somone have to die again??? Is he not interceding from heaven even now??

Goodbook · Feb 26, 2016

Please say that you believe in Jesus christ of Nazareth and not a lie...all those other doctrines sound like strong delusions to me, judging by the way people refuse to read or hear what Is written in plain scripture regarding the temple. There is a reason why the book of revelation is the last book of the bible, and not ezekiel or zechariah or any of the other prophets.

In times past God spoke through them but now he has spoken to us through his Son.

Douggg · Feb 26, 2016

BABerean2 said:
Christian Doctrine 101: Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Ghost are three aspects of the same thing, normally referred to as "The Trinity".

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (That would be Jesus Christ.)

The writer of Hebrews makes it plain that Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant from the Book of Jeremiah.
The main text of Hebrews 8:8-12 is copied from Jeremiah 31:31-34.
It is written in the future tense, because that is the way is was written in Jeremiah, which was a future prophecy in the Old Testament.

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

.......................
testament
G1242

διαθήκη

diathēkē

dee-ath-ay'-kay

From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.
.........................

Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

And for those who still cannot bring themselves to give up on John Darby's doctrine, the writer of Hebrews spells it out for us in the verse below.
This verse spells out for us who the "he" is in Hebrews 8:6.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

I had heard of John Darby's claim to Two Peoples of God, Two Plans of God, but I will have to admit this is a first for me.
Now one of Darby's adherents claims there are Two New Covenants.

Maybe this would be called "Rightly Dividing" the New Covenant...

And they claim to hold a "literal" interpretation of scripture...
.

The Jeremiah 31 new covenant is the new testament covenant in Christ. But where you are going wrong Bab2 is reasoning because Daniel was considering what Jeremiah wrote about the 70 years of captivity - you are jumping to the conclusion the covenant to be confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is also the new covenant in Christ (because Jeremiah also spoke of the new covenant forthcoming).

But the new covenant in Christ is not the covenant in Daniel 9:27 - which isn't identified as a new covenant; but can be easily identified as the Mt. Sinai covenant because the 7 year confirmation cycle is right in the text associated with the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Douggg · Feb 26, 2016

Goodbook said:
Please say that you believe in Jesus christ of Nazareth and not a lie...all those other doctrines sound like strong delusions to me, judging by the way people refuse to read or hear what Is written in plain scripture regarding the temple. There is a reason why the book of revelation is the last book of the bible, and not ezekiel or zechariah or any of the other prophets.

In times past God spoke through them but now he has spoken to us through his Son.

Goodbook, it would be nice if you mentioned who you are addressing your post to....

BABerean2 · Feb 26, 2016

Douggg said:
The Jeremiah 31 new covenant is the new testament covenant in Christ. But where you are going wrong Bab2 is reasoning because Daniel was considering what Jeremiah wrote about the 70 years of captivity - you are jumping to the conclusion the covenant to be confirmed for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is also the new covenant in Christ (because Jeremiah also spoke of the new covenant forthcoming).

But the new covenant in Christ is not the covenant in Daniel 9:27 - which isn't identified as a new covenant; but can be easily identified as the Mt. Sinai covenant because the 7 year confirmation cycle is right in the text associated with the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Really...

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

.

7 year peace treaty, what 7 year peace treaty?

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

Newbie

And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

Newbie

Newbie

Reading the Bible

Reading the Bible

Reading the Bible

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

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